Copyright status of Stendhal

Janet Hunt
  • Janet Hunt

    Janet Hunt - 2006-01-09

    I have not seen any copyright status for the artwork used in Stendhal. In particular I refer to graphical work. As long as the project is "experiment" one might feel tempted to neglect this point, but if it is going to evolve into something stable, this point must be clear (and stable). Otherwise a lot of people's work that went into maps might get lost within a day.

    So, who has made the graphical work and do we have the rights to use it as we do?

    • Steve Ierodiaconou

      yeah, there needs to be some drive to get our own tiles drawn (or find opensource ones). I think the items graphics are mainly taken from open source graphics sets, but the tiles are not. Maybe we should start a repository area where people can submit tiles they draw.

    • Miguel Angel Blanch Lardin

      I took the graphical work ( and I am refering to the tilesets from RPGMaker 2000 ) although it is obvious that they took it from Zelda.

      Do we have the rights to use them? I am not sure. I bet that no.

      The NPC, monsters, items and so are ripped from other public tilesets of RPGMaker and as far as I know they are not owned by anyone.

      But as Steve says we should work on an open tileset. Don't worry about mapmakers because tileset is easily reemplazable ( we have done internally but the result didn't look as nice as actual one ).

    • Janet Hunt

      Janet Hunt - 2006-01-10

      Hm, not a good situation! I am giving you some of my thoughts.

      A. Confine the validity of the present Stendhal project. Artistic property theft is not a basis for a future enabled game project. It may go through when the time of unlicensed usage is limited and there is no economic damage caused. For this some clear targets should be defined for the present project phase (experimental status) and when they are reached a bottom line is to be drawn and a new project is created based on the experience of the former, but also based on legal content. The new project would also give opportunity to restructure software and basic conceptions where necessary.

      B. Make the copyright situation explicit on the web-pages, referring to the transient usage of unlicensed material and where it comes from. This is kind of self-accusation that might shield against loss of reputation or other damage caused to the project. This also is an act of fairness against people engaging in map creations, that they know about the context and the transient state of their work.

      C. If you are daring you might try to legalize the situation by asking the right-holders for permittance to use the few tilesets that we actually have boroughed. But I have doubts that such a huge company as the makers of Zelda is able to perform this kind of agreement.

      D. What is needed beside the drive is an excellent artist! :) That is not a surprise that Zelda's tilesets look better than home-made ones. They have conquered the world with excellent artwork. I guess we should separate the tasks of object creations (including characters) and map creations (tilesets). For tilesets that make up a harmonic impression it is best when they are done by a single artist. - On the other side, when the present project phase is successful and we can present a nice game software with working fundamental operations, it might be easier to lure out good artists and get them interested in the position.

      • Miguel Angel Blanch Lardin

        I agree 100% with you, but:

        A. Stendhal is not its artwork, but its code. I agree that it damages a bit the project.
        I will try to add a copyright ( or the lack of it ) over some of the tilesets.

        Right now I find Zelda tilesets limiting, as we can't express new different situations with them.

        Anyway we all agree, understand and want to change them before the major version 1.00

        B. Agree, I don't announce the project on big sites to avoid tons of emails about the GFX. I will add a notice about this problem.

        Anyway as I told you, mapmakers won't suffer this problem as tilesets are easily reemplazable. ( Most RPGMaker tilesets use the same way of placing tiles in tileset to allow reemplazing them easily )

        C. No, I think exactly the same that you.

        D. I have had offers to add GFX to game, but it is really hard for me to develop and drive other areas of the project.

        Really to change the tilesets just need to reemplaze the actual tiles, and thank to danter's sorting of them it is actually easier to do.

    • Glenn M

      Glenn M - 2006-04-04

      I am going to try and whip up as many tiels as I can that can be used to replace the current Zelda styled ones (It'll give me something to do on my lunch breaks at work :)

      I am going to start with the trees and buildings, I also have some sketches for the fences.  Most of it should be relatively easy.  It is mostly a matter of making the colors look right and getting the initial designs down.  I have good sketches of the trees, but making them look right on the screen is a totally different challenge.

      Anways, hopefully I can prove at least slightly useful, because I really like the game and would like to see it flourish over time.


      • Steve Ierodiaconou

        nice, look forward to seeing them! :)

    • Glenn M

      Glenn M - 2006-04-05

      This is the test for the Monk clothing.
      They are based off of Kevin from Seiken Densetsu 3.

      Hopefully I have some early tree designs as well as buildings soon.  I am going to scan up my drawings for you to see.

    • Glenn M

      Glenn M - 2006-04-05

      Here are the initial tree designs.
      And if that doesn't work.

      Here is the sketches I have made, please ignore my crappy handwriting as well as the fact the image slants up (No it isn't the scan, I just happen to not be very coordinated)


      • Nobody/Anonymous

        Very nice artwork!
        I am working on a new site that allows us to show things like this :)

        Keep the good work!.

        BTW would be possible to have two kind of trees?
        It would be insteresting to have a tree very similar to the actual one, so we don't need to redraw them

    • Glenn M

      Glenn M - 2006-04-05

      Just noticed, you'll have to copy the WHOLE link, it cuts part of it off.  Also, here is what the text says in case you were wondering.
      Under the big tree.
      "Foliage, can also be used as a pine tree without trunk"
      Next is the Trunk
      After that is fruit

      The idea is that you can place the trunk down for dead trees, the trunk with foliage for a standard decidious tree, just the foliage for a pine tree, or add the fruit for the hell of it.

      Under the house "Possible House design"  This design is to be similiar to an old adobe style with the wood supports, currently i am trying to figure out how to get it all to line up when placed as tiles.

      The next tree is simply a smaller tree that can sub as a bush.

      Below all that is a half-timbered house.  Beside it is a brick wall.  I am going to make options for the bottom part to be fieldstone, as well as the wall.


    • Glenn M

      Glenn M - 2006-04-06

      Actually I am doing another kind similiar to mine as well, just smaller.  I could make one similiar to the actual one though, I'd have to take a look at it. See the new thread I made, it has more of the stuff I am making in it.  I will do most of my updates there.  I do have one question though, did the artist of the current tree draw it small than scale it with scale 2x, or did they simple draw it larger.

      The impression I got was that everything would have to be scaled up, but the way to pixels look it appears it is simply drawn larger.  Which may explain why it looks odd to me.  I am trying to maintain the current feel, the characters are very anime based, meaning everything else needs to look the same based on the characters.  Those trees simply look akward next to what is already there.

      • Miguel Angel Blanch Lardin

        I think Danter did the tree directly using the 32x32 tile size. Some of the tiles are restored to use 32x32. You can talk with him at IRC #arianne

    • Daniel Herding

      Daniel Herding - 2006-04-30

      Miguel wrote:

      >The NPC, monsters, items and so are ripped from
      >other public tilesets of RPGMaker and as far as I
      >know they are not owned by anyone.

      Unless the authors of the tilesets have explicitly released them to the public domain, they hold the copyright on them.

      I guess many people have worked on the Charas project, where most of the sprites where taken from, and it might be very hard to find out all their names to contact them and ask for releasing the graphics under a free license.

      But that should be no excuse for just using the graphics without any credit. Now that Glenn has created some nice and promising artwork, one might hope that Stendhal could one day be completely free software. But these item and character graphics are just too beautiful to not use them.

      My suggestion: We create a wiki page with a table containing all images, with columns for source, author name, license status, and comment. Then we can collaborately try to find the source, email the artist, and ask for releasing it under the GPL. As the Chara project is still alive, I think there are good chances of reaching many of the artists. We should also ask Alexander Bonivento (the Chara project leader) for help.



      • Miguel Angel Blanch Lardin

        Most of items are from Crossfire ( so they should be free ), monstersets and charasets comes from RPGMaker.

        I agree, a wiki page would be a good thing.
        Can you start it on our Wiki?

        0.49 will add some of the Glenn's artwork.


    • Glenn M

      Glenn M - 2006-05-09

      Sorry that I haven't gotten much done lately, been pretty busy doing other things, will try to get some mroe stuff done for you pretty soon.


    • Daniel Herding

      Daniel Herding - 2006-08-16

      Please add information about the copyright status of existing graphics to the wiki:

      Even if you know that an image is _not_ free, add that info there so that we know that we shouldn't use it as a base to create more artwork, and that we should someday replace it with a free alternative.

      Daniel (mort)



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