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From: Ris M. <rm...@ne...> - 2007-08-02 22:47:38
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Hi Team, The first draft of the project roadmap is up on the Wiki: http://ardanet.wiki.sourceforge.net/Project+Roadmap It needs more detail because there are a ton of features we have in mind which are not listed. All of our feature plans need to be assigned a target version and integrated into the roadmap, but what I've written up should keep us going for a while. For example, it didn't seem worth taking the time today to identify every window that we need to create and choose the order in which to make those. I want to get farther along before we make those decisions. Both of you guys should have permission to edit the wiki, including the roadmap. Feel free but not obligated. My next task will be to undertake converting all of the MECCG rules documents into Wiki form. One of my goals in that effort is to assemble all of the rules for the same part of game play which may be described in the METW rules, then ammended in Dragons, and ammended again in MELE, etc, so that for example we would have one page of the Wiki for Corruption Checks, showing the original METW starter rules, how it is modified for the standard rules, how it was ammended in Dragons and each expansion, and then any published CRFs, and following that, any documented examples or clarifications for how 2 or more cards work out in a tricky way in published tournament rulings, etc, so that when it comes to implement version 3 (or even when I'm playing casual games) it will be much easier to quickly search for the details of a particular rule and find the complete set of those rules without having to search 7 different rulebooks independantly. As a future effort - not something I will do any time soon - I would also like to enhance the wiki to add a page for every card in the game, to show the errata, any clarifications for how the card is played, and any special rulings for that card as combined with other cards. This will be part of the version 4.0 effort to implement all of the special card rules (the text on each card) as functions in Ardanet so that it knows how all the cards are played - we'll need this kind of reference material on the cards to help us implement those functions, as well as document to Ardanet users how we implemented each card in Ardanet once we are enforcing the rules to that degree. But of course that's a long ways away. Please let me know if you have any recommended changes to the roadmap, if you think I have targetted too much or too little per version, etc. This is also meant to be a fluid document, so if you decide you want to start working on something that is targetted for a version later down the pipe, then by all means, dive in and go for it, and we'll ammend the roadmap to show it as a current task. -- Ris |
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From: Josh H. <jo...@hu...> - 2007-08-03 13:28:32
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> My next task will be to undertake converting all of the MECCG rules > documents into Wiki form. One of my goals in that effort is to assemble = all > of the rules for the same part of game play which may be described in the > METW rules, then ammended in Dragons, and ammended again in MELE, etc, so > that for example we would have one page of the Wiki for Corruption Checks= , > showing the original METW starter rules, how it is modified for the stand= ard > rules, how it was ammended in Dragons and each expansion, and then any > published CRFs, and following that, any documented examples or > clarifications for how 2 or more cards work out in a tricky way in publis= hed > tournament rulings, etc, so that when it comes to implement version 3 (or > even when I'm playing casual games) it will be much easier to quickly sea= rch > for the details of a particular rule and find the complete set of those > rules without having to search 7 different rulebooks independantly. > Check out the wiki at http://www.councilofelrond.org/wiki. We've been working on that rules wiki for almost a year now and it's looking pretty good. I've done a lot of editing on it to wikify the existing rules docs, so most of them look decent. The goal of that wiki is to convert all the existing rules docs into 1 single official rules document. As a future effort =96 not something I will do any time soon =96 I would al= so > like to enhance the wiki to add a page for every card in the game, to sho= w > the errata, any clarifications for how the card is played, and any specia= l > rulings for that card as combined with other cards. This will be part of > the version 4.0 effort to implement all of the special card rules (the > text on each card) as functions in Ardanet so that it knows how all the > cards are played =96 we'll need this kind of reference material on the ca= rds > to help us implement those functions, as well as document to Ardanet user= s > how we implemented each card in Ardanet once we are enforcing the rules t= o > that degree. But of course that's a long ways away. > Funny you should mention this one too...I'm currently working on this as a tool. :) This just gives me another reason to do more work on it. --Josh |
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From: Ris M. <rm...@ne...> - 2007-08-04 01:39:10
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Check out the wiki at http://www.councilofelrond.org/wiki. OMG that is sweet! Thanks so much for that link. I've been looking for something like this for quite a while. (long enough that I decided to do it myself.) Funny you should mention this one too...I'm currently working on this as a tool. :) Again, awesome! I'd love to take a look at what you've done with that so far, do you have a link I can visit? On another note, I created one page for a feature of Ardanet, covering our ideas for Shadow Cards. http://ardanet.wiki.sourceforge.net/shadow+cards I'm planning to use this page as a template for other pages for other features, so please let me know if you think there are any sections missing that I should add. This is pretty much both the developer's reference material and the user's guide. Any examples we create can be test cases for debugging. -- Ris _____ From: ard...@li... [mailto:ard...@li...] On Behalf Of Josh Hunholz Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 9:29 AM To: Developer discussion Subject: Re: [Ardanet-developers] Project Roadmap My next task will be to undertake converting all of the MECCG rules documents into Wiki form. One of my goals in that effort is to assemble all of the rules for the same part of game play which may be described in the METW rules, then ammended in Dragons, and ammended again in MELE, etc, so that for example we would have one page of the Wiki for Corruption Checks, showing the original METW starter rules, how it is modified for the standard rules, how it was ammended in Dragons and each expansion, and then any published CRFs, and following that, any documented examples or clarifications for how 2 or more cards work out in a tricky way in published tournament rulings, etc, so that when it comes to implement version 3 (or even when I'm playing casual games) it will be much easier to quickly search for the details of a particular rule and find the complete set of those rules without having to search 7 different rulebooks independantly. Check out the wiki at http://www.councilofelrond.org/wiki. We've been working on that rules wiki for almost a year now and it's looking pretty good. I've done a lot of editing on it to wikify the existing rules docs, so most of them look decent. The goal of that wiki is to convert all the existing rules docs into 1 single official rules document. As a future effort - not something I will do any time soon - I would also like to enhance the wiki to add a page for every card in the game, to show the errata, any clarifications for how the card is played, and any special rulings for that card as combined with other cards. This will be part of the version 4.0 effort to implement all of the special card rules (the text on each card) as functions in Ardanet so that it knows how all the cards are played - we'll need this kind of reference material on the cards to help us implement those functions, as well as document to Ardanet users how we implemented each card in Ardanet once we are enforcing the rules to that degree. But of course that's a long ways away. Funny you should mention this one too...I'm currently working on this as a tool. :) This just gives me another reason to do more work on it. --Josh |
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From: Josh H. <jo...@hu...> - 2007-08-06 17:53:12
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> Funny you should mention this one too...I'm currently working on this as a > tool. :) > > > > Again, awesome! I'd love to take a look at what you've done with that so > far, do you have a link I can visit? > I've gone back and forth in my mind with how I want to implement this: a wiki or a database. There are advantages to both. As a wiki, we can show Card of the Day articles that are for that card, as well as strategy tips, decks built around the card, and lots of other things like that. As a database, it's easy to integrate into the forums on councilofelrond.org and meccg.net (which was my original goal). Here are the two sites I'm modeling it after: http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/ http://www.swccgpc.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page http://cards.swccgpc.com/ The second site, the Star Wars CCG (decipher game) Player's Committee site, has both a database and a wiki, which is cool. I had started working on code for the database, then realized I should come up with the database structure before I went too far with it. So currently I have a lot of the info in a mysql database, but still haven't gotten around to making a nice view for it. Okay, I've gotta get back to work, but wanted to get some updates out on this stuff. --Josh |
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From: Ris M. <rm...@ne...> - 2007-08-09 01:45:20
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I looked at random example cards in each of those 3 websites to compare the way they show the information. Of those 3, the one I liked the best was this one: http://www.swccgpc.com/wiki/index.php?title=Major_Haash%27n. It has the basic structure I had in mind, but of course I would add lots more subsections. However, the http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/ site starts to approach the card search engine I'd like to build into Ardanet, so it also makes a good example of the kind of stuff I have in mind. I can imagine a super-powerful tool if we could combine those two sets of functionality - the ability to search the cards with an interface like http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/ and then click on the results to get info that is detailed like http://www.swccgpc.com/wiki/index.php?title=Major_Haash%27n. The last one http://cards.swccgpc.com/ <http://cards.swccgpc.com/> doesn't have enough info IMO - all it shows is the card name, a scan of the card, and the rarity. But it makes me think it is important to have access to a simplified view like this for when you don't need all the extra info, so Ardanet should support this kind of interface too. Ideally, the user could customize how much info to show in the summaries shown from the search results, and then clicking would always take you to a more detailed page like http://www.swccgpc.com/wiki/index.php?title=Major_Haash%27n. Now this all gets me thinking. We planned a searchable card database for Ardanet already. It's necessary data. We had planned to implement this data as a proprietary file format using custom C++ data structures, a sort of do-it-yourself card database, in order to have maximum control over the way the data was organized and how we implemented the searches. Also because I've never written SQL code before :P But I am starting to think that SQL may be a better way to go, for reasons I will get into, so let's discuss this. Rather than focus a lot of effort on developing web-based documentation for all this info, maybe we should focus on the card database interface that will eventually be in-game, and make it also serve as the help system, and the rules database! This would enable the in-game card database to include self-contained links to the actual rules, and we could also use Ardanet (read: bug test Ardanet) while entering all the info we would otherwise enter into the wiki or Josh H's MySQL database or any of these other websites. I mean, to spend all this time entering all this info, we should do it in a way that can be used at play-time by Ardanet. Also, I'm intrigued that you already have a lot of info a MySQL database, which sounds like a very good starting point for what I'm suggesting. Another thought I have is that. Josh H is doing MySQL stuff with PHP to make websites. we can do MySQL stuff with C++ or .NET to implement the game play in Ardanet . hmmm. can they share the same database file? Presumably yes. Most of the same SQL statements too I would imagine. So it sounds to me like it would be a good idea to share a SQL database between Ardanet and a web-based search engine which yields results with details like http://www.swccgpc.com/wiki/index.php?title=Major_Haash%27n which I assume we can render in any custom interface on either a website or in Ardanet. In my ignorance of SQL programming, I think it's just a matter of adding data fields to include all the extra info we want, in order to reference the additional sections we'd want to put on wiki pages like references to the rules, examples, walkthroughs, strategy tips, errata, card stats, everything. The rules themselves should be able to go in a separate table within the same SQL database, using a different format for the columns and records in the rules table than in the card info table, right? We wanted to make the card database editable, searchable, and detailed within Ardanet anyway, in our runtime data, so I'm thinking we should make this the first priority for the user interface windows (after I figure out dockable frames as a general framework issue, or even before that) and make both the card database viewer, searcher, and editor windows, as well as the game rules viewer, searcher, and editor windows, and do all those windows before we get into the game-play windows. We need the data at runtime before we can render it in game-play windows anyway, and if we use SQL, it seems like we should be able to share all the data between a web interface and the Ardanet in-game interfaces. Does that make sense? Does it sound like a good idea? I think both of you know more about SQL than I do. What do you think of this approach? The two main drawbacks I see are that I've never done anything with SQL before, and also that I've never done anything with SQL before. LOL. But I can learn. What about licensing, can we use it for free? I assume there's something available somewhere that we're allowed to use in an open-source project, right? -- Ris _____ From: ard...@li... [mailto:ard...@li...] On Behalf Of Josh Hunholz Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 1:53 PM To: Developer discussion Subject: Re: [Ardanet-developers] Project Roadmap Funny you should mention this one too...I'm currently working on this as a tool. :) Again, awesome! I'd love to take a look at what you've done with that so far, do you have a link I can visit? I've gone back and forth in my mind with how I want to implement this: a wiki or a database. There are advantages to both. As a wiki, we can show Card of the Day articles that are for that card, as well as strategy tips, decks built around the card, and lots of other things like that. As a database, it's easy to integrate into the forums on councilofelrond.org and meccg.net (which was my original goal). Here are the two sites I'm modeling it after: http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/ http://www.swccgpc.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page http://cards.swccgpc.com/ <http://cards.swccgpc.com/> The second site, the Star Wars CCG (decipher game) Player's Committee site, has both a database and a wiki, which is cool. I had started working on code for the database, then realized I should come up with the database structure before I went too far with it. So currently I have a lot of the info in a mysql database, but still haven't gotten around to making a nice view for it. Okay, I've gotta get back to work, but wanted to get some updates out on this stuff. --Josh |
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From: Josh H. <jo...@hu...> - 2007-08-09 13:55:34
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MySQL is opensources, as is Postgres SQL. Either one we can use for free. I have much more experience with MySQL. The main thing I love about SQL is the portability. You can use it in any of the applications, so like you said, we can have a front-end on the website that searches it, and an interface in the game. It just makes accessing the same data easier because then we only have to update 1 source with any changes instead of changing it in multiple locations. --Josh H. On 8/8/07, Ris Misner <rm...@ne...> wrote: > > I looked at random example cards in each of those 3 websites to compare > the way they show the information. > > > > Of those 3, the one I liked the best was this one: > http://www.swccgpc.com/wiki/index.php?title=3DMajor_Haash%27n. It has th= e > basic structure I had in mind, but of course I would add lots more > subsections=85 > > > > However, the http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/ site starts to approach the > card search engine I'd like to build into Ardanet, so it also makes a goo= d > example of the kind of stuff I have in mind. > > > > I can imagine a super-powerful tool if we could combine those two sets of > functionality =96 the ability to search the cards with an interface like > http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/ and then click on the results to get inf= o > that is detailed like > http://www.swccgpc.com/wiki/index.php?title=3DMajor_Haash%27n. > > > > The last one http://cards.swccgpc.com/ doesn't have enough info IMO - al= l > it shows is the card name, a scan of the card, and the rarity. But it ma= kes > me think it is important to have access to a simplified view like this fo= r > when you don't need all the extra info, so Ardanet should support this ki= nd > of interface too. Ideally, the user could customize how much info to sho= w > in the summaries shown from the search results, and then clicking would > always take you to a more detailed page like > http://www.swccgpc.com/wiki/index.php?title=3DMajor_Haash%27n. > > > > Now this all gets me thinking=85 > > > > We planned a searchable card database for Ardanet already. It's necessar= y > data. We had planned to implement this data as a proprietary file format > using custom C++ data structures, a sort of do-it-yourself card database,= in > order to have maximum control over the way the data was organized and how= we > implemented the searches. Also because I've never written SQL code befor= e > :P But I am starting to think that SQL may be a better way to go, for > reasons I will get into, so let's discuss this=85 > > > > Rather than focus a lot of effort on developing web-based documentation > for all this info, maybe we should focus on the card database interface t= hat > will eventually be in-game, and make it also serve as the help system, an= d > the rules database! This would enable the in-game card database to inclu= de > self-contained links to the actual rules, and we could also use Ardanet > (read: bug test Ardanet) while entering all the info we would otherwise > enter into the wiki or Josh H's MySQL database or any of these other > websites. I mean, to spend all this time entering all this info, we shou= ld > do it in a way that can be used at play-time by Ardanet. > > > > Also, I'm intrigued that you already have a lot of info a MySQL database, > which sounds like a very good starting point for what I'm suggesting=85 > > > > Another thought I have is that=85 Josh H is doing MySQL stuff with PHP to > make websites=85 we can do MySQL stuff with C++ or .NET to implement the = game > play in Ardanet =85 hmmm=85 can they share the same database file? Presu= mably > yes. Most of the same SQL statements too I would imagine=85 So it sounds= to > me like it would be a good idea to share a SQL database between Ardanet a= nd > a web-based search engine which yields results with details like > http://www.swccgpc.com/wiki/index.php?title=3DMajor_Haash%27n which I ass= ume > we can render in any custom interface on either a website or in Ardanet. = In > my ignorance of SQL programming, I think it's just a matter of adding dat= a > fields to include all the extra info we want, in order to reference the > additional sections we'd want to put on wiki pages like references to the > rules, examples, walkthroughs, strategy tips, errata, card stats, > everything. The rules themselves should be able to go in a separate tabl= e > within the same SQL database, using a different format for the columns an= d > records in the rules table than in the card info table, right? > > > > We wanted to make the card database editable, searchable, and detailed > within Ardanet anyway, in our runtime data, so I'm thinking we should mak= e > this the first priority for the user interface windows (after I figure ou= t > dockable frames as a general framework issue, or even before that) and ma= ke > both the card database viewer, searcher, and editor windows, as well as t= he > game rules viewer, searcher, and editor windows, and do all those windows > before we get into the game-play windows. We need the data at runtime > before we can render it in game-play windows anyway, and if we use SQL, i= t > seems like we should be able to share all the data between a web interfac= e > and the Ardanet in-game interfaces. Does that make sense? Does it sound > like a good idea? > > > > I think both of you know more about SQL than I do. What do you think of > this approach? > > > > The two main drawbacks I see are that I've never done anything with SQL > before, and also that I've never done anything with SQL before. LOL. Bu= t I > can learn=85 > > > > What about licensing, can we use it for free? I assume there's something > available somewhere that we're allowed to use in an open-source project, > right? > > > > -- Ris > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* ard...@li... [mailto: > ard...@li...] *On Behalf Of *Josh > Hunholz > *Sent:* Monday, August 06, 2007 1:53 PM > *To:* Developer discussion > *Subject:* Re: [Ardanet-developers] Project Roadmap > > > > > > Funny you should mention this one too...I'm currently working on this as > a tool. :) > > > > Again, awesome! I'd love to take a look at what you've done with that so > far, do you have a link I can visit? > > > I've gone back and forth in my mind with how I want to implement this: a > wiki or a database. There are advantages to both. As a wiki, we can sho= w > Card of the Day articles that are for that card, as well as strategy tips= , > decks built around the card, and lots of other things like that. As a > database, it's easy to integrate into the forums on councilofelrond.organ= d > meccg.net (which was my original goal). Here are the two sites I'm > modeling it after: > > http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/ > http://www.swccgpc.com/wiki/index.php?title=3DMain_Page > http://cards.swccgpc.com/ > > The second site, the Star Wars CCG (decipher game) Player's Committee > site, has both a database and a wiki, which is cool. > > I had started working on code for the database, then realized I should > come up with the database structure before I went too far with it. So > currently I have a lot of the info in a mysql database, but still haven't > gotten around to making a nice view for it. > > Okay, I've gotta get back to work, but wanted to get some updates out on > this stuff. > > --Josh > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. > Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. > Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. > Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Ardanet-developers mailing list > Ard...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ardanet-developers > > |
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