applemods-modev — Developer list for appleMods, discussing issues related to implementing Loader.

[BUG] general installation suckiness

[Nir S. <ni...@fr...>]

First I want to thank for ASTest - I just used it with System Events to 
create simple gui testing for a small app. However installing it is not 
fun at all - unless I am missing something.

This is what I did:
1. Found ASTest with google, searching for unit testing applescript
1. Installed ASTest
2. Find that it does not compile
3. Find in the manual that it requires some libraries that I never 
heard about
4. Find applemods site by searching google again
5. Download dependencies for ASTest
6. Find that it still will not compile, because I have to get 
dependencies for its own dependencies
7. Download more libraries
8. Finally its running

This is insane installation. It should work like this:
1. Download installer package
2. Install
3. It works

All the applemods libraries are few MB download - one installer package 
that install everything will be just fine. Take Python as example - you 
get big library (batteries included) usable for most tasks. I think 
that applemods should take this approach.


Best Regards,

Nir Soffer

[PATCH] missing parameter in assertFalse

[Nir S. <ni...@fr...>]

--- ASTest/Components/AT_TestCase.applescript   Mon Mar  6 08:27:24 2006
+++ ASTest-nir/Components/AT_TestCase.applescript       Mon Mar  6 
08:27:41 2006
@@ -133,7 +133,7 @@
                         end if
                 end assertTrue

-               on assertFalse(actualResult)
+               on assertFalse(actualResult, userMsg)
                         if actualResult is not false then
                                 __AT_testCaseResult's 
AT_assertGaveWrongResult("assertFalse", false, actualResult, userMsg)
                         end if


I had to safe the changed files as text to get a diff. Is there a 
better way to create diffs for scripts?


Best Regards,

Nir Soffer

Practical advice

[John R. <jh...@ma...>]

Gary,

Should the AppleMod/Loader structures be used to retain ALL reusable  
code, or just what I plan to publish to AppleMod and/or download? It  
seemed to me that in order to use them for my private library  
purposes, I needed to understand the structures well enough to  
publish. Hence the sample code I sent.  However, I anticipate  
problems with massive clutter in the ASLibraries folder, assuming I  
segment scattered routines into neat library files. Another  
organization approach might be a single library for my large private  
collection. Any practical advice?

I am transitioning from the most simple, and most stupid, approach to  
lIbraries: Script Editor and copy/paste reused code as text to every  
new, self-contained text file. Wonderfully easy. No naming of  
external scripts. No old stuff breaks until I decide to touch it again!

I looked at Script Debugger and Smile and XCode/Applescript Studio. I  
decided I did not like the price (in one case) or the need to learn /  
buy-into someone else's framework.

AppleMod/Loader seemed attractive because it's free and developed /  
maintained by people whose abilities I respect. And there is no  
mysterious framework, etc. However, it did spook me to discover,  
after sending that sample, just how few modev submissions there were!  
Has the smart money moved on the next big thing? Should I follow your  
friend has to Python? It fits my own profile to discover something  
truly great, long after it becomes passe!

Anyway, a few comments:

First, the header incantations don't actually bother me as a  
newcomer. They are very consistent, and the mechanism is fully  
exposed. It was a good learning experience tracing them enough so  
that I trust them and ignore them. I have already started to modify  
your LoadWizard script, and I imagine that will grow into something  
personally (or publicly) very useful.

One real problem is that every source file has the same name:  
library.scpt. I can't tell them apart in  Script Editor, and recent  
history is useless now.

Another silly thing (that has actually delayed my library transition  
for years) is the need for adding another name to every call in my  
legacy code: DoThisNow() must change to John's DoThisNow(). This is  
why I never even bothered with AS's save script / load script  
libraries...

Which is to say that I have no complaints, because I don't see any  
solution other than my adapting...

thanks,

- John

(no subject)

[John R. <jh...@ma...>]

For my own learning, I made a sample set of files for a library that
* would be fully compatible with the Loader
* follow the general conventions for naming and documentation that I  
observe
* do limited things that I need, like a Components subfolder.

I also noticed this in the FAQ:
Q: Can I make my/other libraries Loader-compatible?
A: Currently, developer documentation for general use is crude and  
limited. It is not difficult to add the required information to your  
library scripts to make them Loader-compatible. However, since most  
library authors are "serious" scripters, there has been little need  
to write general-purpose documentation. We are working on a basic  
"Loader Compatibility Guide".

Attached is a sit file with the resulting "SampleLib" folder that  
might be useful towards such a "Loader Compatibility Guide", simply  
as a starting point for someone to do what I am doing: re-organized  
existing AS code into the Loader model.

(1) Could someone please look it over and assure me that I am on the  
right track?
(2) Is it actually useful to anyone else?

Thanks!

- John R

Re: Roman library

[Gary W. <ga...@ni...>]

xyster! wrote [4/25/05 2:14 AM]:

> Hi,
> 
> I stumbled on the appleMods website and browsed the libraries out of
> curiosity.
> I was struck by the relatively large size of the Roman numeral library
> (168K). Why the lookup files when it can be done in less than 100 lines
> of Applescript?

The download file size reflects the entire contents of Library, including
its user manual, any test data and any test scripts. Additionally, there may
be a license and a To Do file, depending on the Library.

The Roman Library, however, is rather larger than an "on the fly" generated
Roman, but that method is less portable (number formats as localized) and
slower.

> Is there a huge performance benefit?

Yes.

That does not mean that there are not other, faster even, and less bulky
methods.

We would be more than happy for you to submit an alternate version of a
Roman conversion library.  While there are some requirements for including
headers to perform library location, you could still develop your script and
then we could assist you in preparing for it to be compatible with the
Loader system.

Developer documentation is a project, for sure, but requires additional
community support to prepare, edit and support.

Thank you for writing about appleMods.

Roman library

[xyster ! <re...@gm...>]

Hi,

I stumbled on the appleMods website and browsed the libraries out of 
curiosity.
I was struck by the relatively large size of the Roman numeral library 
(168K). Why the lookup files when it can be done in less than 100 lines 
of Applescript?
Is there a huge performance benefit?

Thanks,

Yuval

Re: Distributions?

[Dork at O. D. d. O. <do...@or...>]

Randall Million wrote [2/27/05 7:13 PM]:

> Can the Loader package be distributed outside of the SourceForge
> download?
> 
> randy

Hi Randy.

Each library (or 'module' or 'mod') can be distributed under its own
license. The license is indicated in the documentation for each package.

That being said, all of the mods presently available, including the Loader
package itself, are indicated to be distributed under the BSD/MIT License.

The recent BSD license was amended to make it the same as the MIT license,
so you can go and read the MIT license or the BSD license to see the
details.

I am not offering legal opinion or advice here, but the licenses are pretty
clearly spelled out (and short.)

You CAN redistribute the Loader with your software package. You must follow
the license, and include all the copyright notices and license markings
(simple...just redistribute the package with all the contents you got.)

You CAN have different license for your own product (the BSD/MIT license
specifically requires that BSD/MIT license not be used to restrict the
license of accompanying work...so you can have your own software licensed --
even for a fee -- and still include the Loader software.

You can read the specifics of any number (there are dozens) of Open Source
licenses by going here:  <http://opensource.org/licenses/>

The specific BSD/MIT license is here:

New BSD License (== MIT license)
   <http://opensource.org/licenses/bsd-license.php>

MIT License (== BSD license)
   <http://opensource.org/licenses/mit-license.php>

These pages are the ultimate reference in the most currently OSI-approved
licenses.

Be sure to read the documentation included with any AppleScript Library (or
'mod') to note the proper license and copyright/author attribution.  Again,
at the present moment, I believe all of the libraries offered are under the
BSD/MIT license, but there are some others (see the 'Strange Archive' at the
site...check the ModBrowser link
   <http://applemods.sourceforge.net/modBrowser.html>
and look at the bottom of the page.  There are links to some other
collections (the old AppleMods archive, which are not loader compatible
as-is) which are not specifically controlled by a license.


I hope that helps with your project!  And thanks for using the site and the
tools.

All the best.

appleMods Project Leader, SourceForge.net

Distributions?

[Randall M. <www...@pl...>]

Can the Loader package be distributed outside of the SourceForge 
download?

randy

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AppleScripts for Entourage, iTunes, and more
http://applescript.plaidcow.net/