Re: [Amforth-devel] Connection to host

[<an...@ki...>]

Hurro Mathias & guys


> I know that amforth is difficult to use for an absolute beginner. For
> both langauge and hardware reasons. I myself had to spend a lot of
> time until my first microcontroller program did run (no, it was not
> amforth but a simple "hello world" that flashed a LED). The only
> way around I see is that those people get a pre-programmed
> chip / complete system. The arduino has it's success mainly
> because of those pre-programmed hardware ready to use.
> 
> Thinking that approach further: the amforth core system can
> reside within 8KB flash, selecting an atmega with that boot sector
> size would allow an "undestroyable" amforth system. No user
> could overwrite the forth system at will or by mistake. Well, there
> are still a few things more to do, but that would work.

There is certainly some mileage in this. I could see it working and 
giving new users a quick in.

The undestroyable idea has its merits.

I am thinking back a little here to an English company that produced 
Forth based microcontrolers TDS2020 back before flash was really 
available. Tiny EEPROM's or battery backed sram were as good as it got. 
The company was called TDS I think. Their system used Eproms and battery 
backed sram. So was along those lines. (I still have the manuals, but 
seem to have lost the boards etc.)

On getting forth onto virgin chips. There is perhaps a missed oportunity 
to implement something like a "clone" word that will allow an amforth 
installation to clone itself (via ICSP) to an identical but empty atmel 
device.

If an arduino can be used as an stk500 programmer purely from code to 
program a blank atmel microcontroler with a bootloader the clone should 
be as easily doable. Perhaps easier as it would only clone to an 
identical device.

Sure it is limited to only cloning to identical devices but it would 
give folk teaching classes a way to do forth only and bypass the fuss of 
the toolchain. Students could breadboard up an empty forth system and 
clone the core from the tutors example system or from each others.

The students could then take away their devices, as a ready to go device 
they could use at home on their own breadboard, pcb or breadboard.

cheers

Andy Kirby