amforth-devel — Development discussion and user support

Re: [Amforth-devel] AVR-Studio und amforth

[<sg...@gm...>]

Sorry, i mean the terminal should communicate on UART0 of the µC. The 
atmega128 does have 2 UARTs.
I started simulating and debugging, because i doesn't get a Promt on the 
real hardware after programming  :(
I'm still trying to get the system running. It's good to know that 
amforth is working on a atmega128.
Thx for helping.

Sgix

Matthias Trute wrote:
> sg...@gm... schrieb:
>    
>> Hi!
>> I was going to rum amforth am a atmega128 with 16MHz and the terminal on
>> COM0
>>      
> <nitpick>
> I know of a /dev/ttyS0 and a com1, but never saw a com0.
> </nitpick>
>
> The atmega128 should work without real trouble. Since I've never
> got one myself, I cannot provide a hex file. Sorry.
>
>    
>> I am going to show the advantages of "forth" to my classmates in a
>> presentation, it would be nice to show them a live-working amforth
>> system on this platform  :)  so i doesn't want it to simulate it in the
>> first place.
>>
>>      
> Within the simulator I never got a command prompt .... Not even
> with a JTAG debugger on real hardware.
>
> Matthias
>
>
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>    

Re: [Amforth-devel] AVR-Studio und amforth

[Matthias T. <mt...@we...>]

sg...@gm... schrieb:
> Hi!
> I was going to rum amforth am a atmega128 with 16MHz and the terminal on 
> COM0
<nitpick>
I know of a /dev/ttyS0 and a com1, but never saw a com0.
</nitpick>

The atmega128 should work without real trouble. Since I've never
got one myself, I cannot provide a hex file. Sorry.

> I am going to show the advantages of "forth" to my classmates in a 
> presentation, it would be nice to show them a live-working amforth 
> system on this platform  :)  so i doesn't want it to simulate it in the 
> first place.
>   
Within the simulator I never got a command prompt .... Not even
with a JTAG debugger on real hardware.

Matthias

Re: [Amforth-devel] AVR-Studio und amforth

[<sg...@gm...>]

Hi!
I was going to rum amforth am a atmega128 with 16MHz and the terminal on 
COM0, because i already have a working and well tested hardware with 
this µC.
I'm using AVR-Studio 4.13 on Windows XP and Win7.
I am going to show the advantages of "forth" to my classmates in a 
presentation, it would be nice to show them a live-working amforth 
system on this platform  :)  so i doesn't want it to simulate it in the 
first place.
Does anyone have a compiled hex-file for this µC?
Corrently i'm going to build a testboard with a atmega32 to run the 
pollin-example, but its not finished yet...

Sgix

Matthias Trute wrote:
> sg...@gm... schrieb:
>    
>> Hallo alle zusammen!
>>
>> Ich habe ein Problem beim simulieren und verwenden von amforth.
>>
>>      
> I've got terrible problem with simulating as well.  Your
> problems sound very similiar to me. But once I got a
> working hardware with an command prompt, I never
> again simulated amforth. It's an awkward tool...
>
>    
>> Auf der Hardware bekomme ich leider auch kein Promt   :(
>>
>>      
> Which hardware: which controller (quartz?), which serial
> terminal type (e.g. max232 or ftdi like usb chips etc). Nothing
> else matters ;=)
>
> Matthias
>
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Re: [Amforth-devel] AVR-Studio und amforth

[Matthias T. <mt...@we...>]

sg...@gm... schrieb:
> Hallo alle zusammen!
>
> Ich habe ein Problem beim simulieren und verwenden von amforth.
>   
I've got terrible problem with simulating as well.  Your
problems sound very similiar to me. But once I got a
working hardware with an command prompt, I never
again simulated amforth. It's an awkward tool...

> Auf der Hardware bekomme ich leider auch kein Promt   :(
>   
Which hardware: which controller (quartz?), which serial
terminal type (e.g. max232 or ftdi like usb chips etc). Nothing
else matters ;=)
 
Matthias

[Amforth-devel] AVR-Studio und amforth

[<sg...@gm...>]

Hallo alle zusammen!

Ich habe ein Problem beim simulieren und verwenden von amforth.
Ich benutze Windows und das AVRStudio. Ich hab das Userguide gelesen und
das Kompilieren der Beispiele funktioniert soweit fehlerfrei aber sobald
ich auf Simulieren klicke, hängt sich das AVRStudio auf.
Ich habe die Include-Pfade bei den Projectsettings angegeben und den
AVRSimulator1 verwendet.
Kopiere ich aber den inhalt von amforth.asm in meine main.asm, dann kann
ich eine weile simulieren, bis ich plötzlich wieder beim Resetvector
bin, also ein Reset ausgelöst hat   o_O
Ich habe auch schon andere, komplette Projekte ausprobiert, jedoch lande
ich immer nach ca 1800 CPU-Zyklen (lt. Simulator) beim Resetvector.
Auf der Hardware bekomme ich leider auch kein Promt   :(
Hatte schon jemand solch ein Problem, oder kann jemand ein mit
avr-studio funktionierendes amforth-Projekt online stellen?

Danke!
Sgix

Re: [Amforth-devel] Forth word ISRs

[Robert L. <xu...@xu...>]

Thanks so much for your quick response to my question.  This is exactly what
I was looking for.  I've checked out the latest source from the Subversion
repository and will take some time to read the rest of the ewlib code.

Thanks again!

Robert AK6L

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 12:45 PM, Erich Waelde <ew....@na...> wrote:

> Hi and welcome!
>
> Robert Liesenfeld wrote:
> > I'm just beginning to use amforth for some of my ATmega-based projects,
> and
> > I have a need for a timer ISR.  Ideally I'd like this to be in Forth
> rather
> > than AVR assembly, mostly because I'm not very good at assembly.
>  Basically
> > all I want to do is keep track of the number of milliseconds since
> "boot",
> > for interval tracking purposes.  The technical documentation for amforth
> > makes it sound like this is possible in a native Forth word, but doesn't
> go
> > into detail, or if it does, I missed it.
>
> I'm using timer2 driven by a 32768 Hz quarz to generate a timebase. No
> assembly
> involved, because there is no need to clear a bit to acknowledge the
> interrupt.
>
>
>
> --- begin clock_tick.fs ---------------------------------
> \ 2007-12-26 EW   clock_tick.fs
> \ geklaut aus appl/tv/blocks/realtimeclock.frt
> \ words: timer2    variable
> \        tick_isr  interupt service routine: increments timer2
> \        +ticks    register and enable interupt
> \        -ticks    disable interupt
>
> variable timer2
>
> hex
> \ overflow2 interupt service routine
> \ increment tick
> : tick_isr
>  1 timer2 +!
> ;
>
> \ enable ticks
> \ crystal:   32768 /sec
> \ clock src: 32768 /sec
> \ overflow:  32768/256 = 128 /sec =^= 7.8125 milli-sec ticks
> : +ticks
>  1 TCCR2 c! ( 001 = clock_ts2/1 )
>  8 ASSR  c! ( source: 32 kiHz crystal )
>  ['] tick_isr TIMER2_OVFAddr int! ( register interupt )
>  TIMSK c@ 40 or TIMSK c! ( enable timer2 interupt )
> ;
>
> \ disable ticks
> : -ticks
>  TIMSK c@
>  [ 40 invert ff and ] literal
>  and TIMSK c! ( clr Timer 2 )
> ;
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> > +ticks
> makes the "clock" run
>
> > timer2 @ u.
> DA6  ok
> > timer2 @ u.
> 10DA  ok
> > -ticks
>  ok
> > timer2 @ u.
> 129F  ok
> > timer2 @ u.
> 129F  ok
>
> and -tick stop it. Use the content of variable timer2 to keep track of the
> time.
> You must read this variable regularly and count up other counters to avoid
> untracked overflow of timer2.
>
> Have a look at amforth/applications/ewlib/timeup.frt for using this.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Erich
>
>
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Re: [Amforth-devel] Forth word ISRs

[Erich W. <ew....@na...>]

Hi and welcome!

Robert Liesenfeld wrote:
> I'm just beginning to use amforth for some of my ATmega-based projects, and
> I have a need for a timer ISR.  Ideally I'd like this to be in Forth rather
> than AVR assembly, mostly because I'm not very good at assembly.  Basically
> all I want to do is keep track of the number of milliseconds since "boot",
> for interval tracking purposes.  The technical documentation for amforth
> makes it sound like this is possible in a native Forth word, but doesn't go
> into detail, or if it does, I missed it.

I'm using timer2 driven by a 32768 Hz quarz to generate a timebase. No assembly
involved, because there is no need to clear a bit to acknowledge the interrupt.



--- begin clock_tick.fs ---------------------------------
\ 2007-12-26 EW   clock_tick.fs
\ geklaut aus appl/tv/blocks/realtimeclock.frt
\ words: timer2    variable
\        tick_isr  interupt service routine: increments timer2
\        +ticks    register and enable interupt
\        -ticks    disable interupt

variable timer2

hex
\ overflow2 interupt service routine
\ increment tick
: tick_isr
  1 timer2 +!
;

\ enable ticks
\ crystal:   32768 /sec
\ clock src: 32768 /sec
\ overflow:  32768/256 = 128 /sec =^= 7.8125 milli-sec ticks
: +ticks
  1 TCCR2 c! ( 001 = clock_ts2/1 )
  8 ASSR  c! ( source: 32 kiHz crystal )
  ['] tick_isr TIMER2_OVFAddr int! ( register interupt )
  TIMSK c@ 40 or TIMSK c! ( enable timer2 interupt )
;

\ disable ticks
: -ticks
  TIMSK c@
  [ 40 invert ff and ] literal
  and TIMSK c! ( clr Timer 2 )
;
-----------------------------------------------------------------


> +ticks
makes the "clock" run

> timer2 @ u.
DA6  ok
> timer2 @ u.
10DA  ok
> -ticks
 ok
> timer2 @ u.
129F  ok
> timer2 @ u.
129F  ok

and -tick stop it. Use the content of variable timer2 to keep track of the time.
You must read this variable regularly and count up other counters to avoid
untracked overflow of timer2.

Have a look at amforth/applications/ewlib/timeup.frt for using this.


Cheers,
Erich

[Amforth-devel] Forth word ISRs

[Robert L. <xu...@xu...>]

Hello-

I apologize if this question has been asked before on the mailing list, and
I missed it.  I spent some time perusing the archives and didn't see quite
this question asked.

I'm just beginning to use amforth for some of my ATmega-based projects, and
I have a need for a timer ISR.  Ideally I'd like this to be in Forth rather
than AVR assembly, mostly because I'm not very good at assembly.  Basically
all I want to do is keep track of the number of milliseconds since "boot",
for interval tracking purposes.  The technical documentation for amforth
makes it sound like this is possible in a native Forth word, but doesn't go
into detail, or if it does, I missed it.

Is this possible?  Am I barking up the wrong tree?

Thanks.
Robert AK6L

Re: [Amforth-devel] Question about bootstrapping

[Andreas R. <a.r...@gm...>]

Erich Waelde <ew....@na...> writes:

> Hi,
>
>> Nice! I'm playing with the idea of using amforth on an ATmega8. With
>> just 8K of RAM, it might make sense to move the compiler onto the PC,
>> and just have the inner interpreter on the microcontroller -- or is that
>> just crazytalk?
>
> an atmega8 is a little tight. You barely get the amforth system into the
> 8k flash --- amforth is comfortable and therefore not *that* tiny. A bigger
> controller is more fun. I' using atmega32.
>
I have an atmega328 as well, an I'll probably put amforth on it, once
I've assembled my ISP device. However, my little brother got an
Asuro[0], which comes with atmega8, hence my questions.

[0] http://www.arexx.com/arexx.php?cmd=goto&cparam=p_asuro

> There is 1k RAM on an atmega8, and 2k on an atmega32. Sounds little, but is
> plenty for my stuff.
>
> Moving the compiler onto the PC is certainly possible, this stuff is called
> "umbilical Forth". 
>
OK, thanks -- now I know what to google for :-).

> One example of such an implementation is Byteforth by Willem
> Ouwerkerk. amforth ist not an umbilical forth.
>
>From a quick look, it seems Byteforth is (a) Windows-centric and (b)
closed source, which makes it uninteresting to me. Thanks for the
pointer anyways.

Regards, Rotty
-- 
Andreas Rottmann -- <http://rotty.yi.org/>

Re: [Amforth-devel] Question about bootstrapping

[Erich W. <ew....@na...>]

Hi,

> Nice! I'm playing with the idea of using amforth on an ATmega8. With
> just 8K of RAM, it might make sense to move the compiler onto the PC,
> and just have the inner interpreter on the microcontroller -- or is that
> just crazytalk?

an atmega8 is a little tight. You barely get the amforth system into the
8k flash --- amforth is comfortable and therefore not *that* tiny. A bigger
controller is more fun. I' using atmega32.
There is 1k RAM on an atmega8, and 2k on an atmega32. Sounds little, but is
plenty for my stuff.

Moving the compiler onto the PC is certainly possible, this stuff is called
"umbilical Forth". One example of such an implementation is Byteforth by Willem
Ouwerkerk. amforth ist not an umbilical forth.


Cheers,
Erich

Re: [Amforth-devel] Question about bootstrapping

[Andreas R. <a.r...@gm...>]

Matthias Trute <mt...@we...> writes:

> Hi,
>
>> ,----
>> | Most of the words are written in forth itself, but are precompiled
>> | into the assembler syntax. This solves the chicken-and-egg problem:
>> | how to compile the compiler words.
>> `----
>>
>> Where can I find the (forth) source code for the compiler,
>
> There is none, I outlined the code with the stack effects on paper&pencil
> basis and wrote the assembler sources directly without an immediate
> tool. 
>
OK, it seems that I've taken "written in forth itself" too literally
:-).

> Did you look at the http://amforth.sourceforge.net/words/ pages?
>
Yes, I'm still trying to get a grip of Forth in general, and amforth in
particuliar (I've only used forth for a university class several years
ago, and am mostly a Scheme hacker these days).

>> and the precompiler that generates the assembly? I did some searching
>> in the source tree, to no avail.
>>   
> Michael writes a forth2assembler tool named g4 and publishes
> it at http://www.forth-ev.de/repos/g4/ His tool is very well suited for
> most use cases (and with known limitations).
>
Nice! I'm playing with the idea of using amforth on an ATmega8. With
just 8K of RAM, it might make sense to move the compiler onto the PC,
and just have the inner interpreter on the microcontroller -- or is that
just crazytalk?

Regards, Rotty
-- 
Andreas Rottmann -- <http://rotty.yi.org/>

Re: [Amforth-devel] Question about bootstrapping

[Matthias T. <mt...@we...>]

Hi,

> ,----
> | Most of the words are written in forth itself, but are precompiled
> | into the assembler syntax. This solves the chicken-and-egg problem:
> | how to compile the compiler words.
> `----
>
> Where can I find the (forth) source code for the compiler,

There is none, I outlined the code with the stack effects on paper&pencil
basis and wrote the assembler sources directly without an immediate
tool. Did you look at the http://amforth.sourceforge.net/words/ pages?

> and the
> precompiler that generates the assembly? I did some searching in the
> source tree, to no avail.
>   
Michael writes a forth2assembler tool named g4 and publishes
it at http://www.forth-ev.de/repos/g4/ His tool is very well suited for
most use cases (and with known limitations).

Matthias

[Amforth-devel] Question about bootstrapping

[Andreas R. <a.r...@gm...>]

Hi!

I'm wondering about this: according to the amforth manual

,----
| Most of the words are written in forth itself, but are precompiled
| into the assembler syntax. This solves the chicken-and-egg problem:
| how to compile the compiler words.
`----

Where can I find the (forth) source code for the compiler, and the
precompiler that generates the assembly? I did some searching in the
source tree, to no avail.

Hints would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers, Rotty
-- 
Andreas Rottmann -- <http://rotty.yi.org/>

[Amforth-devel] New Sources: Incubator

[Matthias T. <mt...@we...>]

Hi out there,

over the time I've collected a few pearls,  that I want to
port to amforth. The reason why they are not currently
working vary from depending on features that amforth
does not (currently) supports (such as locals) to hardware
dependencies (the IP stack).

Nevertheless I think they are useful and or at least amusing to
get them working on a microcontroller with some retro attitude ;=)

If someone gets the work done faster than I can do, very well; the honors
will be on your side :=).

To get access to the incubator, you'll have to use subversion, more
details are on http://amforth.sf.net/ the code is outside the normal
trunk and is not (yet) part of the amforth releases.

Have fun
Matthias

Re: [Amforth-devel] ATMEGA Bootloader

[Matthias T. <mt...@we...>]

David,


> Can anyone can point me on URL for this bootloader ? I’d
> like to
>
> have a try to modify the Arduino one.
>   

Not really a link..

It is the one from Atmel, called DFU Bootloader.
There is a tool called flip to work with it.

Matthias

[Amforth-devel] ATMEGA Bootloader

[MAUGIS D. <dm...@ho...>]

Matthias wrote:

 

“The atmegas have a rather complex method to perform the
flash

write, that requires a lot of work. This work is done in every

bootloader, but only one (for an USB Atmega) provides
an API to

use the routines in normal applications. “

 

Can anyone can point me on URL for this bootloader ? I’d
like to

have a try to modify the Arduino one.

 

Thanks  

 		 	   		  
 		 	   		  
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Re: [Amforth-devel] Butterfly Forth

[Matthias T. <mt...@we...>]

Ian,

> I see there is a 3.5 Amforth update.  I wonder if anyone has been  
> running Amforth 3.4/3.5 on the butterfly and using the butterfly  
> application?

>From time to time I test the releases on a butterfly. Not very
often however. Most of the features of that device are already
covered with some words, only the SPI data flash may need some
work to look as pretty as the other's..

Matthias

[Amforth-devel] Butterfly Forth

[Ian J. <ij...@sa...>]

Hi everyone,

I'm just getting resettled but still don't have my development system  
back up at home.

I see there is a 3.5 Amforth update.  I wonder if anyone has been  
running Amforth 3.4/3.5 on the butterfly and using the butterfly  
application?

Ian

Re: [Amforth-devel] amForth on mega644p

[Tom A. <xy...@sy...>]

On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 08:13:12PM +0200, Matthias Trute wrote:
> Can you please compare the EEPROM content before and after the
> : foo  definition. (ok, that may be tricky to extract).

I've extracted the eeprom before and after a run where I try and define a
word.

Extracted using avrstudio.  Only the first two lines change.

Original:
:10000000FFFF300B1400E7012A003C0933005D01BB
:100010006400E00AF67314001400FFFFFFFFFFFF07

After trying ': foo 5 spaces ;' :
:10000000FFFF350B1400E7012A003C0933005D01B6
:100010006400E00A300B14001400FFFFFFFFFFFF35


> attached you find a definition file a user sent me for the 644p chip,
> maybe it works for you as well.

Seems to be the same as the Definition file I generated, except bound to the
second serial port.  Tried it and of course it won't work on the hardware I
have and I can't easily change that right now, but in a day or so I'll make
up an adapter to attach my serial cable to the second port just to see.

I've put the relevant files up on the web in case they are helpful.  I dont 
like attaching to mailing lists...

http://www.sdiy.org/xyzzy/Forth/

Thanks!

-- 
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold           -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?"  
 - Sysabend Caretaker   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?"
 ------------------------       -- Neal Stephenson,  Snow Crash 

Re: [Amforth-devel] amForth on mega644p

[Tom A. <xy...@sy...>]

I was able to make my new atmega644p device files work and can build and
load the image :
amforth 3.4 ATmega644P
> 

and at this point I can do things like 'words' or simple math '1 1 +' and
the like.

If I try and do anything that defines a new word, well, it looks like I
destroy my dictionary? 
> : foo 5 spaces ;
*system hangs until reset*
*hit reset*
amforth 3.4 ATmega644P
> words
*system hangs until reset*

If at this point I just use avrstudio to reload the EEPROM and then reset :
amforth 3.4 ATmega644P
> words
not s>d up! up@ etc...

Anyhow, I figured I would pass on more info as I had some.

Thanks again. 

-- 
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold           -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?"  
 - Sysabend Caretaker   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?"
 ------------------------       -- Neal Stephenson,  Snow Crash 

[Amforth-devel] amForth on mega644p

[Tom A. <xy...@sy...>]

Greetings!

I've spent the last several hours getting amforth to build using the
included mega644 target.  Its built, and loaded on my target board ( a
Sanguino I have sitting around ).  

If I reset it I get the prompt as expected :
amforth 3.4 ATmega644
> 

if I just bang return I get an ' ok' as expected.

When I first loaded the HEX and EEP files onto the chip, I was able to list
the dictionary withs 'words' but then I tried to do a simple Hello World and
the chip immediately locked.  Reset/Power cycle and while I still get the
prompt, and can still bang return and get ' ok', its otherwise not playing
nicely.

Any suggestions?     I'm leaning towards differences between the 644 and
644p being the culprit, but there don't seem to be a huge number of them.
I've created the files for the 644p using pd2amforth but it looks like I
have some work to do still before this will build.

Any help or pointers are appreciated!

-- 
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold           -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?"  
 - Sysabend Caretaker   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?"
 ------------------------       -- Neal Stephenson,  Snow Crash 

Re: [Amforth-devel] "FORGET" in amForth v3.3

[Kalus M. <mic...@on...>]

Hi.

Convertet marker.frt to marker.asm today using g4. This way it may be  
included in the application words, so you do not have to upload it.

  I reviewd the code, looks good, but did not run it jet. May be you  
give it a try?  Michael

Re: [Amforth-devel] "FORGET" in amForth v3.3

[Ian J. <ij...@sa...>]

Hi Ivan,

If you look at April and May posts this was discussed.

You need to add set-current in dict_appl.inc then you need to upload
marker.frt.

What platform are you running on?

Ian

On Thu, 25 Jun 2009, Ivan Rudenok wrote:

> Hi Matthias,
>
> I switched to v3.4, but I didn't get word calling "marker" ...
>
> Ivan
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Amforth-devel mailing list
> Amf...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
>

Re: [Amforth-devel] "FORGET" in amForth v3.3

[Ivan R. <iva...@go...>]

Hi Matthias,

I switched to v3.4, but I didn't get word calling "marker" ...

Ivan

Re: [Amforth-devel] "FORGET" in amForth v3.3

[Matthias T. <mt...@we...>]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Ivan,

Ivan Rudenok wrote:
> Hello, Forthers!
> 
> I'm using amForth v3.3 for AT90CAN128.
> 
> I’ve a problem to develop a word „forget“. I’ll use only one
> dictionary and I need this word to let MCU forget my own words. Can
> anyone help me?

Generally speaking: forget forget ;=). I wanted to have the
word lists and it is very difficult (at least) to keep track of
the different word lists to implement the forget properly. MARKER
uses a different approach: It takes a snapshot of the whole word list
settings and defines a new word. Whenever this word is called, it
restores the word lists and thus removes itself.

btw: you should definitly switch to release 3.4, it contains a few fixes
wrt marker.

Matthias
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