amforth-devel — Development discussion and user support

Re: [Amforth-devel] Float testing - small/large numbers

[Leon N. M. <leo...@gm...>]

This should now be fixed:

> 1 s>f _pi f* 1000000. d>f f* f>d d.
3141592  ok
> -1 s>f _pi f* 1000000. d>f f* f>d d.
-3141593  ok

the discrepency in the smallest digit is due to the way the fractional part 
gets truncated (it rounds down). If you look directly at the float (take out 
the f>d and convert to binary) they are now idenetical except for the sign 
bit:

01001010001111111011111101100010
11001010001111111011111101100010

It turns out the root cause was something like this:

> -13176795. d2/ d.
-6588398  ok
> 13176795. d2/ d.
6588397  ok

Which is how it should work if you think of division by 2 as shifting right, 
but isn't something I had taken in to account -- a good lesson in how negative 
numbers are represented.

My reposititory has been updated -- keep the tests coming.

-Leon

On Monday, August 30, 2010 04:46:37 pm you wrote:
> Leon,
> 
> I think there is an issue with negative numbers:
> > -1 s>f fconstant _-1    >>>> define 1.0
> 
> ok
> 
> > 1 s>f fconstant _1      >>>> define -1.0
> 
> ok
> 
> > _1 _pi f* _1e4 f* f>s .    >>>> 1.0 * pi * 1.0E4 = 31415
> 
> 31415  ok
> 
> > _-1 _pi f* _1e4 f* f>s .   >>>>> -1.0 * pi * 1.0E4 = -31426
> 
> -31426  ok
> 
> 
> It cannot be caused by of a rounding error accumulating or loosing a
> valid digits. Some minor bug somewhere..
> P.

Re: [Amforth-devel] Float testing - small/large numbers

[pito <pi...@vo...>]

Leon,
the results of tests 4-6 are from what I see quite different (+/-
19) against the correct result =31415:
> test1
31415  ok
> test2
31415  ok
> test3
31415  ok
> test4
31396  ok
> test5
31438  ok
> test6
-31434  ok
>
I think the difference is too big for a single precision float..P.

----- PŮVODNÍ ZPRÁVA -----
Od: "Leon Nathaniel Maurer" <leo...@gm...>
Komu: "pito" <pi...@vo...>
Předmět: Re: [Amforth-devel] Float testing - small/large numbers
Datum: 30.8.2010 - 23:48:51

> On Monday, August 30, 2010 04:19:55 pm pito wrote:
> > The test4-6 are done with negative koef. You may
> > see an error.
> > > One important thing - in order to load float lib
> > you have to add
> > > the word d= into your compilation.
> > Pito
> 
> I think 4-6 are getting the right results. test4
> has (-1)^6=1, test5 has 
> (-1)^4=1, and test6 has (-1)^5=-1.
> 
> Commented out code for d= has been in the
> float.fth file in case it wasn't 
> already installed.
> 
> -Leon

Re: [Amforth-devel] Float testing - small/large numbers

[Leon N. M. <leo...@gm...>]

On Monday, August 30, 2010 04:19:55 pm pito wrote:
> The test4-6 are done with negative koef. You may see an error.
> One important thing - in order to load float lib you have to add
> the word d= into your compilation.
> Pito

I think 4-6 are getting the right results. test4 has (-1)^6=1, test5 has 
(-1)^4=1, and test6 has (-1)^5=-1.

Commented out code for d= has been in the float.fth file in case it wasn't 
already installed.

-Leon

Re: [Amforth-devel] Float testing - small/large numbers

[pito <pi...@vo...>]

Leon,
I think there is an issue with negative numbers:

> -1 s>f fconstant _-1    >>>> define 1.0
ok
> 1 s>f fconstant _1      >>>> define -1.0
ok

> _1 _pi f* _1e4 f* f>s .    >>>> 1.0 * pi * 1.0E4 = 31415
31415  ok

> _-1 _pi f* _1e4 f* f>s .   >>>>> -1.0 * pi * 1.0E4 = -31426
-31426  ok
>

It cannot be caused by of a rounding error accumulating or loosing a
valid digits. Some minor bug somewhere..
P.


> > Ok, that bug should be fixed -- the new version
> > of
> > > the code is up on
> > 
> > http://github.com/lnmaurer/amforth-float
> > 
> > Below are some of Pito's examples -- now
> > working.

Re: [Amforth-devel] Float testing - small/large numbers

[pito <pi...@vo...>]

Leon,
Thanks! The results of the test1-6 (all results shall be equal
31415, ignoring sign):
> test1
31415  ok
> test2
31415  ok
> test3
31415  ok
> test4
31396  ok
> test5
31438  ok
> test6
-31434  ok
> 
The test4-6 are done with negative koef. You may see an error.
One important thing - in order to load float lib you have to add
the word d= into your compilation.
Pito

----- PŮVODNÍ ZPRÁVA -----
Od: "Leon Nathaniel Maurer" <leo...@gm...>
Komu: amf...@li...
Předmět: Re: [Amforth-devel] Float testing - small/large numbers
Datum: 30.8.2010 - 19:42:28

> Ok, that bug should be fixed -- the new version of
> the code is up on
> 
> http://github.com/lnmaurer/amforth-float
> 
> Below are some of Pito's examples -- now working.
> Thanks again for catching 
> this.
> 
> In answer to an earlier question -- I think double
> length floats would be 
> trickier to do because there aren't words around
> to manipulate them. My 
> priority is defiantly getting the other words from
> the floating point wordset 
> done, followed by some from the floating point
> extended wordset (including 
> functions like sine, cos, etc.)
> 
> -Leon
> 
> -Leon
> 
> > 355 s>f 113 s>f f/ fconstant _pi
> ok
> > _pi 10000 s>f f/ 10000 s>f f/ 10000 s>f f/ 10000
> > s>f fdup fdup fdup f* f* f* 
> > f* f>s .
> 31415  ok
> > 1074 s>f 2251 s>f f/ fconstant   _log3
> ok
> > _log3 1000 s>f f* f>s .
> 477  ok
> > 10691 s>f 462 s>f f/ fconstant   _e**pi
> ok
> > _e**pi 1000 s>f f* f>s .
> 23140  ok
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by:
> 
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Re: [Amforth-devel] Float testing - small/large numbers

[Leon N. M. <leo...@gm...>]

Ok, that bug should be fixed -- the new version of the code is up on

http://github.com/lnmaurer/amforth-float

Below are some of Pito's examples -- now working. Thanks again for catching 
this.

In answer to an earlier question -- I think double length floats would be 
trickier to do because there aren't words around to manipulate them. My 
priority is defiantly getting the other words from the floating point wordset 
done, followed by some from the floating point extended wordset (including 
functions like sine, cos, etc.)

-Leon

-Leon

> 355 s>f 113 s>f f/ fconstant _pi
 ok
> _pi 10000 s>f f/ 10000 s>f f/ 10000 s>f f/ 10000 s>f fdup fdup fdup f* f* f* 
f* f>s .
31415  ok
> 1074 s>f 2251 s>f f/ fconstant   _log3
 ok
> _log3 1000 s>f f* f>s .
477  ok
> 10691 s>f 462 s>f f/ fconstant   _e**pi
 ok
> _e**pi 1000 s>f f* f>s .
23140  ok

Re: [Amforth-devel] Float testing - small/large numbers

[pito <pi...@vo...>]

Some errors when compiling float constants:

> 1074 s>f 2251 s>f f/ fconstant   _log3
|significand| > 16777215 

> 10691 s>f 462 s>f f/ fconstant   _e**pi
|significand| > 16777215 

> _1e-6 1000 s>f f/ fconstant   _1e-9
|significand| > 16777215 

P.

Re: [Amforth-devel] Some useful Float Constants

[pito <pi...@vo...>]

Hi, this is an update for experimenters (till we get input/output of
float numbers):
------------------------------------------
marker _floatconstants_

\ some float constants

355 s>f 113 s>f f/ fconstant 		_pi
355 s>f 226 s>f f/ fconstant 		_pi_half
355 s>f 452 s>f f/ fconstant 		_pi_quarter

8119 s>f 5741 s>f f/ fconstant 		_sqrt2
5741 s>f 8119 s>f f/ fconstant 		_sqrt2half
13755 s>f 7953 s>f f/ fconstant 	_sqrt3
27379 s>f 8658 s>f f/ fconstant 	_sqrt10

25946 s>f 9545 s>f f/ fconstant 	_e
4319 s>f 6231 s>f f/ fconstant 		_ln2
5225 s>f 4756 s>f f/ fconstant 		_ln3
12381 s>f 5377 s>f f/ fconstant 	_ln10
2718 s>f 9029 s>f f/ fconstant 		_log2
1074 s>f 2251 s>f f/ fconstant 		_log3
10691 s>f 462 s>f f/ fconstant 		_e**pi
26120 s>f 1163 s>f f/ fconstant 	_pi**e

1 s>f 2 s>f f/ fconstant 		_half
1 s>f 3 s>f f/ fconstant 		_third
1 s>f 10 s>f f/ fconstant 		_10th
1 s>f 100 s>f f/ fconstant 		_100th
1 s>f 1000 s>f f/ fconstant 		_1000th
5 s>f 127 s>f f/ fconstant 		_mm2inch

10 s>f fconstant			_10
100 s>f fconstant			_100
1000 s>f fconstant			_1000
_1000 fconstant				_1e3
10000 s>f fconstant			_1e4
_1000 1000 s>f f* fconstant 		_1e6
_1e6  1000 s>f f* fconstant 		_1e9
_1e9  1000 s>f f* fconstant 		_1e12

1 s>f 1000 s>f f/ fconstant 		_1e-3
_1e-3 1000 s>f f/ fconstant 		_1e-6
_1e-6 1000 s>f f/ fconstant 		_1e-9
_1e-9 1000 s>f f/ fconstant 		_1e-12
____________________

Ex:
> _pi _1e-6 _1000 _1000 _1e4 f* f* f* f* f>s .
31415  ok
> _pi _1e-6 _1e3 _1e3 _1e4 f* f* f* f* f>s .
31415  ok
>

Pito

Re: [Amforth-devel] Float testing - small/large numbers

[pito <pi...@vo...>]

Leon,
I uploaded in other post an update of useful float constnats (these
constants are useful till we will have input and output of float
numbers).
However it freezes when uploading (e.g. when compiling _third) so it
seems the f/ is cousing a problem. Try it plz.
Pito

> That's a good way to boil it down. It defintely
> shouldn't be doing that -- 
> hopefully I'll be able to look in to it tomorrow.
> -Leon

Re: [Amforth-devel] Float testing - small/large numbers

[Leon N M. <leo...@gm...>]

That's a good way to boil it down. It defintely shouldn't be doing that -- 
hopefully I'll be able to look in to it tomorrow.
-Leon

>Sunday 29 August 2010
>From: "pito" <pi...@vo...>
>Subject: Re: [Amforth-devel] Float testing - small/large numbers
> Leon, or, to make it simple:
> Q: why the test1 gives a correct result (31415) and the test4 gives
> an error (|significand| > 16777215).
> The test1 is the same as the test4, the only difference is the test4
> has minus10000 as the first multiplicand.
> Pito

[Amforth-devel] Compare words, <= >= etc.

[pito <pi...@vo...>]

Hi,
is there any source for compare words definition (like <= >= ...
etc.) not included in amforth? P.

Re: [Amforth-devel] compilation errors

[Marcin C. <sa...@sa...>]

On Sun, 29 Aug 2010, Volker Wolfram wrote:

> And it's time for a new 'Rhöner Landpremium'.

I will try to update avra with those changes.

And we are stuck here with Ebbelwoi! Prost!

--Marcin

Re: [Amforth-devel] compilation errors

[<vo...@vo...>]

vo...@vo... (Volker Wolfram) wrote:

> Hi here is my include file again.
Thank you to all helpers!

It works now. I will try to burn to FLASH ROM tomorrow.

And it's time for a new 'Rhöner Landpremium'.

Regards,

HUE \a

Re: [Amforth-devel] compilation errors

[<vo...@vo...>]

Hi here is my include file again.

Re: [Amforth-devel] Compilation errors

[Marcin C. <sa...@sa...>]

On Sun, 29 Aug 2010, Volker Wolfram wrote:

> Hi Marcin,
>
> here is my Include- file m32def.inc.

nevermind.

Can you try the attached m32def.inc instead?
It can be placed in the project directory (where you have m32.asm)

--Marcin

Re: [Amforth-devel] Compilation errors

[<vo...@vo...>]

Hi Marcin,

here is my Include- file m32def.inc.

Thanks,

and it's time for a 'Rhöner Landpremium' now.

Re: [Amforth-devel] Compilation

[<vo...@vo...>]

Hi all,

here ist the *.asm file from my project directory.

Thanks to you.

HUE \a

Re: [Amforth-devel] Compilation errors with avra assembler

[Marcin C. <sa...@sa...>]

On Sun, 29 Aug 2010, Volker Wolfram wrote:

> ../../core/words/istore_nrww.asm(55) : Error   : Found no label/variable/constant named
> RWWSRE
> ../../core/words/istore_nrww.asm(55) : Warning : Constant out of range (-128 <= k <= 255
> ). Will be masked
> AVRA: advanced AVR macro assembler Version 1.3.0 Build 1 (8 May 2010)
> Copyright (C) 1998-2010. Check out README file for more info
>
>   AVRA is an open source assembler for Atmel AVR microcontroller family
>   It can be used as a replacement of 'AVRASM32.EXE' the original assembler

Can you send me your m32.asm ?

--Marcin

Re: [Amforth-devel] Compilation errors with avra assembler

[Matthias T. <mt...@we...>]

Hi,

> Would you consider adding .overlap
> 
> http://support.atmel.no/knowledgebase/avrstudiohelp/mergedProjects/AVRASM/Html/directives.html#OVERLAP/NOOVERLAP
> 
> to places where the code generated overlaps:

sound like a good idea. If it works for both assemblers
I'll do it. May take a few days however...

Matthias

Re: [Amforth-devel] Compilation errors with avra assembler

[<vo...@vo...>]

Marcin Cieslak <sa...@sa...> wrote:

> On Sun, 29 Aug 2010, Matthias Trute wrote:
>
> > There is a simple answer: avra cannot be used. Use the Avr Assembler 2
> > from the AVR Studio with wine. Avra did work in the past, but not with
> > the current code. I cannot tell, which amforth version was the last
> > one that avra understood, its long ago.
> >
> > Hopefully the avra people come up again, but there is a long way to go.
> > For them.
>
> It should work with the patches I have provided. It seems not to be
> so much work, maybe I should prepare a new release included.
>
> Would you consider adding .overlap
>
> http://support.atmel.no/knowledgebase/avrstudiohelp/mergedProjects/AVRASM/Html/directives.html#OVERLAP/NOOVERLAP
>
> to places where the code generated overlaps:
>
> in drivers/usart-isr-tx.asm:
>
> .org UDREaddr
>    jmp_ usart_udre_isr
>
> in drivers/usart-isr-rx.asm:
>
> .org URXCaddr
>    jmp_ usart_rx_isr
>
> Alternatively, we can use .ifdef to skip original interrupt handlers
> where necessary.
>
> --Marcin
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Sell apps to millions through the Intel(R) Atom(Tm) Developer Program
> Be part of this innovative community and reach millions of netbook users 
> worldwide. Take advantage of special opportunities to increase revenue and 
> speed time-to-market. Join now, and jumpstart your future.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-atom-d2d
> _______________________________________________
> Amforth-devel mailing list
> Amf...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
Hi Marcin,

thanks for your advice to patch the sources. I' done this, but I have 
a problem with the further process now.

The compiler says that now:
../../core/words/istore_nrww.asm(55) : Error   : Found no label/variable/constant named 
RWWSRE
../../core/words/istore_nrww.asm(55) : Warning : Constant out of range (-128 <= k <= 255
). Will be masked
AVRA: advanced AVR macro assembler Version 1.3.0 Build 1 (8 May 2010)
Copyright (C) 1998-2010. Check out README file for more info

   AVRA is an open source assembler for Atmel AVR microcontroller family
   It can be used as a replacement of 'AVRASM32.EXE' the original assembler

What can I do now?

Thanks to you all!

HUE \a

Re: [Amforth-devel] Compilation errors with avra assembler

[Marcin C. <sa...@sa...>]

On Sun, 29 Aug 2010, Matthias Trute wrote:

> There is a simple answer: avra cannot be used. Use the Avr Assembler 2
> from the AVR Studio with wine. Avra did work in the past, but not with
> the current code. I cannot tell, which amforth version was the last
> one that avra understood, its long ago.
>
> Hopefully the avra people come up again, but there is a long way to go.
> For them.

It should work with the patches I have provided. It seems not to be
so much work, maybe I should prepare a new release included.

Would you consider adding .overlap

http://support.atmel.no/knowledgebase/avrstudiohelp/mergedProjects/AVRASM/Html/directives.html#OVERLAP/NOOVERLAP

to places where the code generated overlaps:

in drivers/usart-isr-tx.asm:

.org UDREaddr
   jmp_ usart_udre_isr

in drivers/usart-isr-rx.asm:

.org URXCaddr
   jmp_ usart_rx_isr

Alternatively, we can use .ifdef to skip original interrupt handlers
where necessary.

--Marcin

Re: [Amforth-devel] Compilation errors with avra assembler

[<vo...@vo...>]

Matthias Trute <mt...@we...> wrote:

> Hi Volker,
>
> > I've copied the template directory and get weird errors form the words
> > source files.
> > 
> > I'm using amforth 3.9. 
> > 
> > Can anyone give me a comment to work with amforth and how to compile it
> > for ATmega32a?
>
> There is a simple answer: avra cannot be used. Use the Avr Assembler 2
> from the AVR Studio with wine. Avra did work in the past, but not with
> the current code. I cannot tell, which amforth version was the last
> one that avra understood, its long ago.
>
> Hopefully the avra people come up again, but there is a long way to go.
> For them.
>
> Matthias
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Sell apps to millions through the Intel(R) Atom(Tm) Developer Program
> Be part of this innovative community and reach millions of netbook users 
> worldwide. Take advantage of special opportunities to increase revenue and 
> speed time-to-market. Join now, and jumpstart your future.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-atom-d2d
> _______________________________________________
> Amforth-devel mailing list
> Amf...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
Hello,

I'm using on my Host NetBSD 5.0.2. I'll try to figure it out.

Thanks to you all!

Regards,

HUE \a

Re: [Amforth-devel] Float testing - small/large numbers

[pito <pi...@vo...>]

Leon, or, to make it simple:
Q: why the test1 gives a correct result (31415) and the test4 gives
an error (|significand| > 16777215).
The test1 is the same as the test4, the only difference is the test4
has minus10000 as the first multiplicand.
Pito

----- PŮVODNÍ ZPRÁVA -----
Od: "pito" <pi...@vo...>
Komu: leo...@gm..., amf...@li...
Předmět: Re: [Amforth-devel] Float testing - small/large numbers
Datum: 29.8.2010 - 20:01:01

> The test cases are designed specifically to se how
> it handles large
> and small numbers. The cases 1-3 are the same as
> 4-6, the later have
> only minus sign with those 10000 numbers. All the
> results shall be
> by design the integer number 31415 (visualised by
> "10000 x Pi" - as
> we do not have float format yet). The Pi is simply
> multiplied or/and
> divided by large numbers (as we do not have float
> input yet, it is
> done by several multiplication/division by 10000).
> The results are:
> > test1
> 31415  ok
> > test2
> 31415  ok
> > test3
> |significand| > 16777215 
> 
> Here the sign is chabged only:
> > test4
> |significand| > 16777215 
> > test5
> 31438  ok
> > test6
> |significand| > 16777215 
> > 
> 
> My current understanding is the division is
> cousing issues. The lost
> of significant figures shall not be the case - see
> the test 1:
> 
> tmp = pi / (10000^5)
> pi = tmp * 10000^6   (correct result 31415).
> 
> The test 2:
> 
> tmp = pi / 10000 / 10000 
> pi = tmp * 10000^3   (correct result 31415).
> 
> Te test 3:
> 
> tmp = pi / 10000 / 10000 /10000
> pi = tmp * 10000^4   (error).
> 
> The test4-6 are same as the above one, but with
> minus sign at 10000.
> So the result shall be 31415 (when ignoring the
> sign).
> 
> As you may see from previous test the f/ is
> sensitive to signs of
> the operands and gives unpecise results - see  for
> example test5
> result.
> 
> Pito.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- PŮVODNÍ ZPRÁVA -----
> Od: "Leon N Maurer" <leo...@gm...>
> Komu: amf...@li...
> Předmět: Re: [Amforth-devel] Float testing -
> small/large numbers
> Datum: 29.8.2010 - 19:17:31
> 
> > I don't have my device handy so I can't test
> > your
> > > code. Could you be a little 
> > more clear about which ones failed, what the
> > results are supposed to be, and 
> > what the results actually are? (When you write
> > "the result shall be -31415", 
> > is that what it's supposed to be, what it
> > actualy
> > > is, or something else?)
> > 
> > It looks like you're dividing and then
> > multiplying
> > > by very large powers of 10. 
> > I wouldn't be surprised if you loose some
> > significant figures by doing this.
> > -Leon
> > 
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > Sell apps to millions through the Intel(R)
> > Atom(Tm) Developer Program
> > Be part of this innovative community and reach
> > millions of netbook users 
> > worldwide. Take advantage of special
> > opportunities
> > > to increase revenue and 
> > speed time-to-market. Join now, and jumpstart
> > your
> > > future.
> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-atom-d2d
> > _______________________________________________
> > Amforth-devel mailing list
> > Amf...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
> > 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Sell apps to millions through the Intel(R)
> Atom(Tm) Developer Program
> Be part of this innovative community and reach
> millions of netbook users 
> worldwide. Take advantage of special opportunities
> to increase revenue and 
> speed time-to-market. Join now, and jumpstart your
> future.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-atom-d2d
> _______________________________________________
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> Amf...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel

Re: [Amforth-devel] Compilation errors with avra assembler

[Matthias T. <mt...@we...>]

Hi Volker,

> I've copied the template directory and get weird errors form the words
> source files.
> 
> I'm using amforth 3.9. 
> 
> Can anyone give me a comment to work with amforth and how to compile it
> for ATmega32a?

There is a simple answer: avra cannot be used. Use the Avr Assembler 2
from the AVR Studio with wine. Avra did work in the past, but not with
the current code. I cannot tell, which amforth version was the last
one that avra understood, its long ago.

Hopefully the avra people come up again, but there is a long way to go.
For them.

Matthias

Re: [Amforth-devel] Compilation errors with avra assembler

[Marcin C. <sa...@sa...>]

On Sun, 29 Aug 2010, Volker Wolfram wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I've copied the template directory and get weird errors form the words
> source files.
>
> I'm using amforth 3.9.
>
> Can anyone give me a comment to work with amforth and how to compile it
> for ATmega32a?

Do you have avra source? Can you try patches
I have posted to the avra list for a better 
AVRASM compatibility?

3044547  	Error:: ldi can only use a high register (r16 - r31)
  		https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3044547&group_id=55499&atid=477233

3044545 	movw y, z causes Error:: No register associated with y and z
  		https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3044545&group_id=55499&atid=477233

3044541 	.ifndef does not work (Can't redefine constant, use .SET)
  		https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3044541&group_id=55499&atid=477233

--Marcin