Thread: [Alsa-user] High end usb sound card recommendations?
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From: Johannes W. <joh...@ph...> - 2006-08-31 19:32:24
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Hi list, The input quality of my laptop's sound card is horrible. While I'm at upgrading, I'm thinking on getting the best solution to work with my new high end amplifier. I already use the laptop for DVB and DVD. Requirements: - high quality audio input and output - supported by debian etch/sid, kernel 2.6.16 - usb or firewire or pcmcia; (usb prefered) - stereo in- and output (surround sound not required or used) Many of the current devices from say Edirol, M-audio or Terratec are not on the list http://www.alsa-project.org/alsa-doc/index.php?vendor=All#matrix which also claims to have seen the last update in March 2005. Thanks for your recommendations! Johannes |
From: Bill U. <un...@ph...> - 2006-08-31 19:45:38
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On Thu, 31 Aug 2006, Johannes Wiedersich wrote: > Hi list, > > The input quality of my laptop's sound card is horrible. While I'm at > upgrading, I'm thinking on getting the best solution to work with my new > high end amplifier. I already use the laptop for DVB and DVD. > > Requirements: > - high quality audio input and output > - supported by debian etch/sid, kernel 2.6.16 > - usb or firewire or pcmcia; (usb prefered) > - stereo in- and output (surround sound not required or used) A usb (2.0 preferable) or other external is probably better. The inside of a laptop especially and a computer in general is a terrible place for low noise. While the digital data is immune, the analog parts are not. Even USB1.1 works but you cannot get high rates (eg 96000) or multi channels through that narrow pipe. It is OK for 44100 stereo however. Maudio has terrible Linux relations. They regard even their name as a trade secret and refuse to divulge it if you ask them ;-) Their sound cards however seem to be good and some can be gotten to work with Linux. I have a fairly stringent sound card test (www.theory.physics.ubc.ca/soundcard/soundcard.html) that you can try out. The sound card has to be capable of input and output at the same time since it feeds theoutput to the input, and thus tests both at once. Although it is designed for the now outdated OSS, it can be used with ALSA with a bit of effort. > > Many of the current devices from say Edirol, M-audio or Terratec are not > on the list > http://www.alsa-project.org/alsa-doc/index.php?vendor=All#matrix > which also claims to have seen the last update in March 2005. > > Thanks for your recommendations! > > Johannes > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Alsa-user mailing list > Als...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/alsa-user > -- William G. Unruh | Canadian Institute for| Tel: +1(604)822-3273 Physics&Astronomy | Advanced Research | Fax: +1(604)822-5324 UBC, Vancouver,BC | Program in Cosmology | un...@ph... Canada V6T 1Z1 | and Gravity | www.theory.physics.ubc.ca/ |
From: Frank B. <fb...@fo...> - 2006-08-31 23:33:04
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Hallo, Bill Unruh hat gesagt: // Bill Unruh wrote: > A usb (2.0 preferable) or other external is probably better. Problem is: Most USB 2.0 cards aren't supported by ALSA yet, AFAIK. So you need to stick with USB 1.1, which is enough for stereo. It'd recommend the Terratec Phase 26 or the Edirol UA-25 as two well supported high-endish cards. The soundcard-matrix on alsa-project.org lags a bit behind in regard to USB soundcards, but the Linux USB device list at http://qbik.ch/usb/devices/ is a very good reference for USB soundcards. Here's the deep link to the snd-usb-audio devices: http://qbik.ch/usb/devices/showdevcat.php?w=d&id=44 Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__ |
From: Sergei S. <ste...@li...> - 2006-08-31 19:51:19
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On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 21:32:18 +0200 Johannes Wiedersich <joh...@ph...> wrote: > Hi list, > > The input quality of my laptop's sound card is horrible. While I'm at > upgrading, I'm thinking on getting the best solution to work with my new > high end amplifier. I already use the laptop for DVB and DVD. > > Requirements: > - high quality audio input and output > - supported by debian etch/sid, kernel 2.6.16 > - usb or firewire or pcmcia; (usb prefered) > - stereo in- and output (surround sound not required or used) > > Many of the current devices from say Edirol, M-audio or Terratec are not > on the list > http://www.alsa-project.org/alsa-doc/index.php?vendor=All#matrix > which also claims to have seen the last update in March 2005. > > Thanks for your recommendations! > > Johannes > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Alsa-user mailing list > Als...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/alsa-user > I think this: http://www.qbik.ch/usb/devices/ -> http://www.qbik.ch/usb/devices/search_res.php?pattern=sound is a good place to start from. --Sergei. -- Visit my http://appsfromscratch.berlios.de/ open source project. |
From: Sergei S. <ste...@li...> - 2006-08-31 19:54:09
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On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 21:32:18 +0200 Johannes Wiedersich <joh...@ph...> wrote: > Hi list, > > The input quality of my laptop's sound card is horrible. While I'm at > upgrading, I'm thinking on getting the best solution to work with my new > high end amplifier. I already use the laptop for DVB and DVD. > > Requirements: > - high quality audio input and output > - supported by debian etch/sid, kernel 2.6.16 > - usb or firewire or pcmcia; (usb prefered) > - stereo in- and output (surround sound not required or used) > > Many of the current devices from say Edirol, M-audio or Terratec are not > on the list > http://www.alsa-project.org/alsa-doc/index.php?vendor=All#matrix > which also claims to have seen the last update in March 2005. > > Thanks for your recommendations! > > Johannes > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Alsa-user mailing list > Als...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/alsa-user > http://www.qbik.ch/usb/devices/search_res.php?pattern=audio gives even more matches. -- Visit my http://appsfromscratch.berlios.de/ open source project. |
From: Lee R. <rlr...@jo...> - 2006-08-31 20:09:49
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On Thu, 2006-08-31 at 21:32 +0200, Johannes Wiedersich wrote: > Many of the current devices from say Edirol, M-audio or Terratec are > not > on the list > http://www.alsa-project.org/alsa-doc/index.php?vendor=All#matrix > which also claims to have seen the last update in March 2005. > Any USB device that is class compliant (no driver required on OSX or Windows) will work. Non-compliant/proprietary USB devices almost certainly will not work. This has not changed and is unlikely to change in the forseeable future. Lee |
From: Bill U. <un...@ph...> - 2006-08-31 20:13:50
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On Thu, 31 Aug 2006, Lee Revell wrote: > On Thu, 2006-08-31 at 21:32 +0200, Johannes Wiedersich wrote: >> Many of the current devices from say Edirol, M-audio or Terratec are >> not >> on the list >> http://www.alsa-project.org/alsa-doc/index.php?vendor=All#matrix >> which also claims to have seen the last update in March 2005. >> > > > Any USB device that is class compliant (no driver required on OSX or > Windows) will work. Non-compliant/proprietary USB devices almost > certainly will not work. This has not changed and is unlikely to change > in the forseeable future. Note that even if it is compliant it may require a firmware load. Many of the Maudio cards do. Ie, the card itself has no software on it, except a bare bones loader. YOu then have to load the firmware on ( at which point it changes its usb identifier and your usb bus has to reidentify it). Now I thing many Maudio cards in addition are not compliant, but my Maudio Transit at least used to work and was a very good, cheap soundcard ( it came off very well with my audio card test). I have not tried it recently with the 2.6 kernels and the latest alsa versions. > > Lee > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Alsa-user mailing list > Als...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/alsa-user > -- William G. Unruh | Canadian Institute for| Tel: +1(604)822-3273 Physics&Astronomy | Advanced Research | Fax: +1(604)822-5324 UBC, Vancouver,BC | Program in Cosmology | un...@ph... Canada V6T 1Z1 | and Gravity | www.theory.physics.ubc.ca/ |
From: Lee R. <rlr...@jo...> - 2006-08-31 20:18:49
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On Thu, 2006-08-31 at 12:45 -0700, Bill Unruh wrote: > I have a fairly stringent sound card test > (www.theory.physics.ubc.ca/soundcard/soundcard.html) > that you can try out. The sound card has to be capable of input and > output > at the same time since it feeds theoutput to the input, and thus tests > both > at once. > Although it is designed for the now outdated OSS, it can be used with > ALSA > with a bit of effort. Does you tester make sure to test at a hardware-supported sample rate? Otherwise you could be testing the quality of the in-kernel OSS emulation's software resampler... Lee |
From: Bill U. <un...@ph...> - 2006-08-31 20:27:32
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On Thu, 31 Aug 2006, Lee Revell wrote: > On Thu, 2006-08-31 at 12:45 -0700, Bill Unruh wrote: >> I have a fairly stringent sound card test >> (www.theory.physics.ubc.ca/soundcard/soundcard.html) >> that you can try out. The sound card has to be capable of input and >> output >> at the same time since it feeds theoutput to the input, and thus tests >> both >> at once. >> Although it is designed for the now outdated OSS, it can be used with >> ALSA >> with a bit of effort. > > Does you tester make sure to test at a hardware-supported sample rate? > Otherwise you could be testing the quality of the in-kernel OSS > emulation's software resampler... It is up to you-- ie you can ask either for 44100 or 48000 as the only two choices. However, under alsa, you can aplay a file included with the program and arecord that sample fed back through the soundcard and then use the program to analyse that recorded file. It feeds "pink noise"-- actually 7 frequencies per octave for as many octaves as you want through the soundcard, subtracts out those frequencies and looks at the remaining noise. This gives a measure of all of IM, Harmonic distortions, as well as noise from the card, with a signal which is much more similar to true recorded material than the single frequency stuff of most distortion analyses. For example, the Transit is about 3dB above 16 bit quantisation noise across the band with a signal which is at the max amplitude the card can handle and with a very flat response (10 octave "pink noise" signal.) > > Lee > -- William G. Unruh | Canadian Institute for| Tel: +1(604)822-3273 Physics&Astronomy | Advanced Research | Fax: +1(604)822-5324 UBC, Vancouver,BC | Program in Cosmology | un...@ph... Canada V6T 1Z1 | and Gravity | www.theory.physics.ubc.ca/ |
From: Johannes W. <joh...@ph...> - 2006-09-04 18:52:08
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Thanks to all who replied. Frank Barknecht wrote: > It'd recommend the Terratec Phase 26 or the Edirol UA-25 as two well > supported high-endish cards. > > The soundcard-matrix on alsa-project.org lags a bit behind in regard > to USB soundcards, but the Linux USB device list at > http://qbik.ch/usb/devices/ is a very good reference for USB > soundcards. > > Here's the deep link to the snd-usb-audio devices: > http://qbik.ch/usb/devices/showdevcat.php?w=d&id=44 I ordered the Terratec today. It appears from Edirol's Owner's manual http://www.roland.com/products/en/_support/om.cfm?ln=en&dsp=0&iCncd=526 that only the lowest resulution and sampling frequency are supported by the native driver. So I assumed that the better resolutions are only available for M$ (and Mac). From http://qbik.ch/usb/devices/showdev.php?id=2424 I gathered, that all modes of Terratec's Phase 26 are supported by the snd-usb-driver. Since both devices have similar specifications, this and the lower price of the Terratec favoured the latter. I will post my experiences, once I've got the device. Johannes |
From: Frank B. <fb...@fo...> - 2006-09-04 20:03:13
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Hallo, Johannes Wiedersich hat gesagt: // Johannes Wiedersich wrote: > I ordered the Terratec today. It appears from Edirol's Owner's manual > > http://www.roland.com/products/en/_support/om.cfm?ln=en&dsp=0&iCncd=526 > > that only the lowest resulution and sampling frequency are supported by > the native driver. So I assumed that the better resolutions are only > available for M$ (and Mac). No, they will work on Linux as well, ALSA includes "quirks" to also make use of the advanced moded of the devices. However as you've found out, the Terratec card is much cheaper, so unless you need features like the XLR connections, phantom power etc. of the Edirol I consider it a better deal as well. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__ |
From: Johannes W. <joh...@ph...> - 2006-12-04 18:02:55
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Hi everyone, a while ago I asked for recommendations for external sound cards. Johannes Wiedersich wrote: > The input quality of my laptop's sound card is horrible. While I'm at > upgrading, I'm thinking on getting the best solution to work with my new > high end amplifier. I already use the laptop for DVB and DVD. > > Requirements: > - high quality audio input and output > - supported by debian etch/sid, kernel 2.6.16 > - usb or firewire or pcmcia; (usb prefered) > - stereo in- and output (surround sound not required or used) > > Many of the current devices from say Edirol, M-audio or Terratec are not > on the list > http://www.alsa-project.org/alsa-doc/index.php?vendor=All#matrix > which also claims to have seen the last update in March 2005. > > Thanks for your recommendations! I finally settled for the Terratec Phase 26 and use it on debian etch, kernel 2.6.17-2-686; alsa-base 1.0.13-2. Output sound quality is superb, matching my high endish cd-player on my 4-digit-Euros amp. There are some issues getting the input to work in stereo and getting it recognized by audacity. I will post these in another thread. Johannes |