aimmath-developers — Development related messages

RE: [Aimmath-developers] why do we need jdk

[Neil S. <N.P...@sh...>]

> Does someone know why AiM need the full java development kit rather than
> just the runtime?
>
> Gustav

That's a good question.  Of course, you probably need the jdk to get a
compiler etc, allowing you to compile the servlet, but the standard AIM
distribution includes precompiled class files, so it need not include the
compiler.  Also, when we get around to implementing quiz and subject sharing
properly, we will want AIM to be able to create zip files.  Assuming we have
the jdk, we can use the jar program to do this; but there are doubtless
other possibilities.

If we can get away with the jre (= java runtime environment), that would be
good, as many people will have it installed already.  We would need to know
where to look, however.  Under Windows XP professional, I have a JRE at
C:\Program Files\JavaSoft\JRE\1.3.1  I am not sure how standard this
location
is, or how exactly it came to be installed there; in particular, I am not
sure whether every Windows XP installation has the jre installed by default.

Neil

Re: [Aimmath-developers] untested modifications by Mad Alex to provide MathDisplay=latex option

[Manolis M. <ma...@ma...>]

The compiled versions are at:

www.maths.ed.ac.uk/~manolis/download/AIM/Alice.class
www.maths.ed.ac.uk/~manolis/download/AIM/Maple.class

you coudn't compile them because you have to have javax.servlets in your
classpath (and probably some others). Javax.servlets is contained in
j2ee.jar and it comes with the enterprise sdk but it is also included with
tomcat's distrubution as servlet.jar (note that ar files have to be added
explicitly in the classpath not only the path of the directory so you
probably have to add c:\tomcat_dir\common\lib\servlet.jar)

I can't test that the changes work as my AIM is really messed at the
moment.... hope I helped a little bit.

Manolis

ps. we need the sdk for compiling not for using AIM... for people that only
want to use AIM runtime would be ok.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gustav W Delius" <gw...@yo...>
To: "AIM developers" <aim...@li...>
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 12:28 PM
Subject: [Aimmath-developers] untested modifications by Mad Alex to provide
MathDisplay=latex option


> I have commited the changed Alice.java and Maple.java that Mad Alex hacked
> so that we now have an option MathDisplay=latex which tells Alice to to
> leave the latex output as it is rather than passing it through tth. Alex
has
> described this in his post
> http://aimmath.sourceforge.net/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=22 and it relates
to
> the discussion in
http://aimmath.sourceforge.net/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=14.
>
> As Alex said, these modified files have not been tested because he does
not
> know how to compile them. I don't either. Can someone please help? When I
> try it by simply calling javac I am told that the package javax.servlet
does
> not exist.
>
> Gustav
>
>
>
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[Aimmath-developers] why do we need jdk

[Gustav W D. <gw...@yo...>]

Does someone know why AiM need the full java development kit rather than
just the runtime?

Gustav

[Aimmath-developers] untested modifications by Mad Alex to provide MathDisplay=latex option

[Gustav W D. <gw...@yo...>]

I have commited the changed Alice.java and Maple.java that Mad Alex hacked
so that we now have an option MathDisplay=latex which tells Alice to to
leave the latex output as it is rather than passing it through tth. Alex has
described this in his post
http://aimmath.sourceforge.net/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=22 and it relates to
the discussion in http://aimmath.sourceforge.net/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=14.

As Alex said, these modified files have not been tested because he does not
know how to compile them. I don't either. Can someone please help? When I
try it by simply calling javac I am told that the package javax.servlet does
not exist.

Gustav

RE: [Aimmath-developers] changes

[Neil S. <N.P...@sh...>]

I'm inclined to agree with Ken on this, although I don't care too much.

Neil

> The only thing that concerns me is the point you mention... I really don't
> like to submit email via the moodle web interface.  It is much more
> convenient to use an email client for many reasons.  Perhaps we
> can have the
> best of both worlds as follows:
>
> (1) Use aim...@li... (this list) as the
> Developers list
> (2) Continue to use JISC as the Users list.
> (3) Put a Discussion List web page at the aimmath site that has
>     - a mailto: link to the Jisc list
>     - a mailto: link to the aimmath-developers list
>     - a link to the Jisc archives
>     - a link to the aimmath-developers list archive
>     - instructions on how to subscribe to JISC for new users
>       (and a message telling wannabe developers who they should contact)

Re: [Aimmath-developers] changes

[Manolis M. <ma...@ma...>]

Chris and Gustav (and others for info),

     at the end of the month we will finish instaling our new linux mostly
with new versions of all major components. By then I except you will have
writen instructions for windows and I will then test the installation, and
modify your instructions ...

 Hope this helps ... sorry but there isn't really much time to do more.

Manolis

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Sangwin" <san...@fo...>
To: "AIM developers" <aim...@li...>
Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 2:09 PM
Subject: RE: [Aimmath-developers] changes


>
>
> Given the level of consensus about mailing lists and web sites, I phoned
> Gustav earlier today.  This is because I currently run the JISC list, and
> Gustav http://aimmath.sourceforge.net/.  We have agreed the following
> actions but please object to any of them if you don't agree. The only
> point Gustav and I think might be contentious is a move from a developers
> mailing list to a forum on Moodle.  One can subscribe to a mail alert for
> new postings, but replies are via a web interface into Moodle.  There is a
> direct link at the bottom of an email to facilitate this.  This does not
> correspond to the way everyone works, however it has the advantage of
> putting all the AIM mailing lists, forums and web pages etc in one place.
>
> Therefore, to coincide with the beta release of AIM 3.0:
>
> Members of the AIM community will access all information through
> http://aimmath.sourceforge.net/ This can be as a guest, however to
> receive email one needs to subscribe.
>
> *** (1) Mailing lists ***
>
> There will be three forums at http://aimmath.sourceforge.net/
>
> (i) A news forum - subscribing to http://aimmath.sourceforge.net/
> automatically subscribes a user to receiving email from this list.
> News also shows up on the AIM home page.  Only administrators of the
> Moodle site may post to this list.  For major AIM announcements only.
>
> Two optional subscription forums,
>
> (ii) using aim (questions, quizzes, install issues, bug reporting)
>
> (iii) developing aim (issues relating to the development and
> management of the source code)
>
> *Action: Done.
>
> The existing JISC mail will become a "moderated list" and mail postings
> will be forwarded by Chris to the appropriate forum on
> aimmath.sourceforge.net This will effectively halt all outgoing traffic on
> the JISC mail list, but will keep the list open to maintain the archive
> and catch incoming mail. JISC mail subscribers will be encouraged to move
> to http://aimmath.sourceforge.net/
>
> *Action: Chris, to coincide with the beta release of AIM
>
> The aim...@li... mailing list will
> exist as an archive, but we won't choose to post to it.
>
> *** (2) Install pages ***
>
> Separate Unix and Windows pages on http://aimmath.sourceforge.net/
> will be updated, incorporating Ken's current pages.
>
> * Action: Gustav: Beta instructions
>           Chris: test Windows release and update.
>           Volunteer: write and test Unix install instructions.
>
> These pages will contain mirror copies of major components which are known
> to work on at least one system.  ie "I installed the following files on
> Windows XP and they worked"  + links to these projects for latest versions
> etc. In particular
>
> Apache Tomcat
> Java runtime
>
> Bundle small components: Blat, TtH etc in the releases.
>
> This provides a working system for new users from one page (hopefully).
> These may not be the latest versions - that doesn't matter.  What is
> important is that new users may easily assemble all the required
> components from one page.
>
> Action: Chris & Gustav & A. N. Other
>
> *** (3) Extensions and modifications of AIM ***
> Write a page on http://aimmath.sourceforge.net/ containing optional
> extensions and modifications to AIM.
>
> *** (4) Getting the latest versions using CVS.  ***
> Write a page on http://aimmath.sourceforge.net/ containing information of
> accessing the CVS.
>
> *** (5) Project history page ***
> Write a page on http://aimmath.sourceforge.net/ containing a brief
> history of the various versions of AIM.
> * Action: Chris
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
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> Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are available now.
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>
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> _______________________________________________
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> Aim...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/aimmath-developers
>

RE: [Aimmath-developers] changes

[Ken M. <mo...@pt...>]

Chris & Gustav:

Excellent plan.  This should streamline things a lot.

The only thing that concerns me is the point you mention... I really don't
like to submit email via the moodle web interface.  It is much more
convenient to use an email client for many reasons.  Perhaps we can have the
best of both worlds as follows:

(1) Use aim...@li... (this list) as the
Developers list
(2) Continue to use JISC as the Users list.
(3) Put a Discussion List web page at the aimmath site that has
    - a mailto: link to the Jisc list
    - a mailto: link to the aimmath-developers list
    - a link to the Jisc archives
    - a link to the aimmath-developers list archive
    - instructions on how to subscribe to JISC for new users
      (and a message telling wannabe developers who they should contact)

This way everything would still be available and accessible in one place at
the aimmath site but we could still use our email clients for sending and
receiving.  This would also eliminate the need for Chris to forward JISC
messages to an appropriate aimmath forum.

?

KEN

> -----Original Message-----
> From: aim...@li...
> [mailto:aim...@li...]On Behalf Of
> Chris Sangwin
> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 9:10 AM
> To: AIM developers
> Subject: RE: [Aimmath-developers] changes
>
>
> Given the level of consensus about mailing lists and web sites, I phoned
> Gustav earlier today.  This is because I currently run the JISC list, and
> Gustav http://aimmath.sourceforge.net/.  We have agreed the following
> actions but please object to any of them if you don't agree. The only
> point Gustav and I think might be contentious is a move from a developers
> mailing list to a forum on Moodle.  One can subscribe to a mail alert for
> new postings, but replies are via a web interface into Moodle.  There is a
> direct link at the bottom of an email to facilitate this.  This does not
> correspond to the way everyone works, however it has the advantage of
> putting all the AIM mailing lists, forums and web pages etc in one place.
>
> Therefore, to coincide with the beta release of AIM 3.0:
>
> Members of the AIM community will access all information through
> http://aimmath.sourceforge.net/ This can be as a guest, however to
> receive email one needs to subscribe.
>
> *** (1) Mailing lists ***
>
> There will be three forums at http://aimmath.sourceforge.net/
>
> (i) A news forum - subscribing to http://aimmath.sourceforge.net/
> automatically subscribes a user to receiving email from this list.
> News also shows up on the AIM home page.  Only administrators of the
> Moodle site may post to this list.  For major AIM announcements only.
>
> Two optional subscription forums,
>
> (ii) using aim (questions, quizzes, install issues, bug reporting)
>
> (iii) developing aim (issues relating to the development and
> management of the source code)
>
> *Action: Done.
>
> The existing JISC mail will become a "moderated list" and mail postings
> will be forwarded by Chris to the appropriate forum on
> aimmath.sourceforge.net This will effectively halt all outgoing traffic on
> the JISC mail list, but will keep the list open to maintain the archive
> and catch incoming mail. JISC mail subscribers will be encouraged to move
> to http://aimmath.sourceforge.net/
>
> *Action: Chris, to coincide with the beta release of AIM
>
> The aim...@li... mailing list will
> exist as an archive, but we won't choose to post to it.
>
> *** (2) Install pages ***
>
> Separate Unix and Windows pages on http://aimmath.sourceforge.net/
> will be updated, incorporating Ken's current pages.
>
> * Action: Gustav: Beta instructions
>           Chris: test Windows release and update.
>           Volunteer: write and test Unix install instructions.
>
> These pages will contain mirror copies of major components which are known
> to work on at least one system.  ie "I installed the following files on
> Windows XP and they worked"  + links to these projects for latest versions
> etc. In particular
>
> Apache Tomcat
> Java runtime
>
> Bundle small components: Blat, TtH etc in the releases.
>
> This provides a working system for new users from one page (hopefully).
> These may not be the latest versions - that doesn't matter.  What is
> important is that new users may easily assemble all the required
> components from one page.
>
> Action: Chris & Gustav & A. N. Other
>
> *** (3) Extensions and modifications of AIM ***
> Write a page on http://aimmath.sourceforge.net/ containing optional
> extensions and modifications to AIM.
>
> *** (4) Getting the latest versions using CVS.  ***
> Write a page on http://aimmath.sourceforge.net/ containing information of
> accessing the CVS.
>
> *** (5) Project history page ***
> Write a page on http://aimmath.sourceforge.net/ containing a brief
> history of the various versions of AIM.
> * Action: Chris
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites including
> Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are available now.
> Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual Studio .NET.
> http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa00100003ave/direct;at.aspnet_072
> 303_01/01
> _______________________________________________
> Aimmath-developers mailing list
> Aim...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/aimmath-developers
>
>

RE: [Aimmath-developers] changes

[Chris S. <san...@fo...>]

Given the level of consensus about mailing lists and web sites, I phoned
Gustav earlier today.  This is because I currently run the JISC list, and
Gustav http://aimmath.sourceforge.net/.  We have agreed the following
actions but please object to any of them if you don't agree. The only
point Gustav and I think might be contentious is a move from a developers
mailing list to a forum on Moodle.  One can subscribe to a mail alert for
new postings, but replies are via a web interface into Moodle.  There is a
direct link at the bottom of an email to facilitate this.  This does not
correspond to the way everyone works, however it has the advantage of
putting all the AIM mailing lists, forums and web pages etc in one place.

Therefore, to coincide with the beta release of AIM 3.0:

Members of the AIM community will access all information through
http://aimmath.sourceforge.net/ This can be as a guest, however to
receive email one needs to subscribe.

*** (1) Mailing lists ***

There will be three forums at http://aimmath.sourceforge.net/

(i) A news forum - subscribing to http://aimmath.sourceforge.net/
automatically subscribes a user to receiving email from this list.
News also shows up on the AIM home page.  Only administrators of the
Moodle site may post to this list.  For major AIM announcements only.

Two optional subscription forums,

(ii) using aim (questions, quizzes, install issues, bug reporting)

(iii) developing aim (issues relating to the development and
management of the source code)

*Action: Done.

The existing JISC mail will become a "moderated list" and mail postings
will be forwarded by Chris to the appropriate forum on
aimmath.sourceforge.net This will effectively halt all outgoing traffic on
the JISC mail list, but will keep the list open to maintain the archive
and catch incoming mail. JISC mail subscribers will be encouraged to move
to http://aimmath.sourceforge.net/

*Action: Chris, to coincide with the beta release of AIM

The aim...@li... mailing list will
exist as an archive, but we won't choose to post to it.

*** (2) Install pages ***

Separate Unix and Windows pages on http://aimmath.sourceforge.net/
will be updated, incorporating Ken's current pages.

* Action: Gustav: Beta instructions
          Chris: test Windows release and update.
          Volunteer: write and test Unix install instructions.

These pages will contain mirror copies of major components which are known
to work on at least one system.  ie "I installed the following files on
Windows XP and they worked"  + links to these projects for latest versions
etc. In particular

Apache Tomcat
Java runtime

Bundle small components: Blat, TtH etc in the releases.

This provides a working system for new users from one page (hopefully).
These may not be the latest versions - that doesn't matter.  What is
important is that new users may easily assemble all the required
components from one page.

Action: Chris & Gustav & A. N. Other

*** (3) Extensions and modifications of AIM ***
Write a page on http://aimmath.sourceforge.net/ containing optional
extensions and modifications to AIM.

*** (4) Getting the latest versions using CVS.  ***
Write a page on http://aimmath.sourceforge.net/ containing information of
accessing the CVS.

*** (5) Project history page ***
Write a page on http://aimmath.sourceforge.net/ containing a brief
history of the various versions of AIM.
* Action: Chris

RE: [Aimmath-developers] minor bug fixes and improvements

[Ken M. <mo...@pt...>]

> However, the ID message editing box should probably be moved to the header
> & footer editing page.

OK, I did this just now and committed it to develop_2_1.

KEN

RE: [Aimmath-developers] changes

[Ken M. <mo...@pt...>]

>   I may generate a lof of disagreemet with what I am going to say but :
>
> > I tend to agree with Ken. There seem to be a lot of packages that were
> > new in Maple 7, that make coding of AIM questions slicker and easier.
>
> Although I agree, I would propose that the extra cool, slicker and easier
> tools that Maple supports
> are used in a sensible way and probably making sure that other CAS support
> them (maybe not exactly the same code but but at least to be possible to
do
> something similar - I have no idea what you are referring to anyway) so as
> we can easily re-use questions and possibly code in case we will not be
able
> to use Maple after some point or in general to accomodate other projects
> (like Chris' one in Birmingham or our one ghere) that look into
> using freely available CAS.

I think one of the main advantages of AIM over similar math assessment
programs like WeBWorK, and in fact even over MapleTA, is that we can write
our questions with the full power of Maple at our disposal instead of being
limited to an ordinary language (e.g. WeBWorK writes their question in
Perl).  If we try to restrict ourselves to using only the features of Maple
that appear in ordinary languages (loops, if then, assignments, etc), and
perhaps a small subset of the CAS features that are available, I feel we are
then moving in the wrong direction... back towards a system like
WeBWorK/Perl.

I do not think it would be practical to translate most of the AIM questions
I have written from Maple to another CAS language if that option ever
becomes available, whether or not we use the extra tools that are available
in the newer versions of Maple.  However, for the question author, the more
slick advanced tools we have at our disposal, the easier it is to write,
maintain, and debug the questions themselves.  So I wouldn't want us to
cripple the system or limit what we can code in our questions in order to
try to make it compatible with everything.

regards,
KEN

RE: [Aimmath-developers] changes

[Gustav W D. <gu...@ma...>]

Neil wrote:

> If you make a change that is reasonable enough that
> other people might want to try it, then it can be committed to the
> development branch;

I strongly agree with this. Please commit to the development branch as soon
as you have
something that appears to work.

On the day of the beta release of AiM 3.0 I will merge the develop_2_1
branch back to the HEAD.
I propose that from then on we do development work on HEAD. I think I
created a lot of unnecessary
confusion by creating the development branch.

>    I think that the SourceForge site currently refers to Ken Monks's site
>    for some of the installation instructions etc.  This should be changed
>    so that the SourceForge site is self contained.

Yes, I agree. I will do this in time for the release of AiM 3.0 beta

>    While I'm at it, I think that
>    (a) You should be able to get the stable version of AIM from
>        http://aimmath.sourceforge.net without having to go via
>        http://sourceforge.net/projects/aimmath

SourceForge doesn't like that. They want all file releases to go through
their file release system and I don't think that is a big problem.

>    (b) The stable version should be provided as a zip file as well as a
>        tar file.

Why? Are there unzippers that can't open tar.gz files?

>    (c) It should be possible to access as much as possible of
>        http://aimmath.sourceforge.net without registering.  Where it is
>        possible to log in as a guest, the web site should make this as
>        obvious as possible.

I agree. Currently all of aimmath.sourceforge.net can be accessed without
registering and I think we should keep it that way.

> 3) I think we only need two mailing lists/discussion forums: one
> for people
>    who are willing to read source code, and one for people who are not.  I
>    don't think that any finer subdivisions are useful in practice.

I think you are right. So should we have a "User's Forum" and a "Developer's
Forum"?

I think that with the release of AiM 3.0 we should retire the JISC mailing
list, but keep a link to its archive on the aimmath.sourceforge site (thanks
for Chris for this suggestion).

Gustav

[Aimmath-developers] minor bug fixes and improvements

[Ken M. <mo...@pt...>]

I committed the following changes to the files aim/Zone.mpl,
aim/admin/Zone.mpl, aim/admin/ZoneStudentHome.mpl, and
aim/admin/ZoneAdminHome.mpl to the develop_2_1 branch (I hope :)):

* fixed several minor bugs that prevented things from working

* modified the ZoneStudentHome and ZoneAdminHome pages so that they
automatically update the relevant html file when you save the changes
(before you had to do something like hide and then unhide a course to get
the changes to take affect)* Changed Zone.mpl so Hidden Subjects are shown
by default instead of hidden by default (easy to change back if people don't
like it)

* moved the huge ID message input box on the Zone admin page to the bottom
of the page so more information appears at the top of the page without
scrolling.

Question: Do we really need the ID message input box at all?  You can get
the same effect by just entering the ID message at the top of the student
page footer.  Or does the ID message show up somewhere else in AIM?

KEN

-----------------------------------------
Ken Monks - Professor of Mathematics
            University of Scranton
            Scranton, PA 18510
email: mailto:mo...@sc...
web:   http://www.scranton.edu/~monks
-----------------------------------------

RE: [Aimmath-developers] changes

[Ken M. <mo...@pt...>]

> I think that in general we have too many branches, too many web sites, too
> many mailing lists and so on.  I would like to suggest:

I agree.

> 1) We should have a development branch and a stable branch and that should
>    be it.  If you make a change that is reasonable enough that other
people
>    might want to try it, then it can be committed to the development
branch;
>    the change can always be reversed later if necessary.  If you are not
>    ready to to commit to the development branch, then the change can just
>    stay on your own machine, the CVS system need not see it at all.
>
>    I think that Gustav wanted a private branch as a convenient way to sync
>    his home and office machines.  It would be OK to have branches like
that,
>    if they are clearly marked as such.

OK, I will simply commit to the develop_2_1 branch (in accordance with the
Developer's Etiquette rules) from now on.  I don't know how to reverse such
a change, but as long as someone does I guess we will be ok. :)

> 2) I have removed my AIM distribution page, and replaced it with a link to
>    SourceForge.  I would suggest that other people do likewise; otherwise
>    we will end up with various sites offering incompatible versions and
>    causing horrible confusion.  It was useful to have alternatives when my
>    machine was the primary distribution source, as it was sometimes
>    unavailable; but that should hardly ever be a problem with SourceForge.
>
>    I think that the SourceForge site currently refers to Ken Monks's site
>    for some of the installation instructions etc.  This should be changed
>    so that the SourceForge site is self contained.
>
>    While I'm at it, I think that
>    (a) You should be able to get the stable version of AIM from
>        http://aimmath.sourceforge.net without having to go via
>        http://sourceforge.net/projects/aimmath
>    (b) The stable version should be provided as a zip file as well as a
>        tar file.
>    (c) It should be possible to access as much as possible of
>        http://aimmath.sourceforge.net without registering.  Where it is
>        possible to log in as a guest, the web site should make this as
>        obvious as possible.

I am certainly willing to do this, but there are a few loose ends we need to
figure out.

1. Ancillary software: In addition to mirroring the AIM source on my AIM
page I also am mirroring the other software needed: java, Tomcat, TtH, Blat
(for Windows), and Process (for my modified servlet).  This makes it
convenient for a new potential user to get everything they need in one place
rather than running all over the internet looking for the correct versions
of things.  This could be a big turnoff for a potential user who is used to
downloading a single zip file and installing it. Thus I would suggest that
at minimum the download page at aimmath should have really good instructions
regarding what components are needed to run AIM under the various operating
systems and also links to the appropriate OS-specific versions of the
component software needed.

2. AIM plug-ins or custom mods: In addition to the main AIM distribution, we
probably should have some sort of download page for AIM "plug-ins".  For
example, my modified servlet works fine under windows, but from what Greg
tells me it doesn't work so great under Linux.  But it has many nice
features and advantages for Windows users, so it might be considered to be
an AIM plug-in that only works for Windows until we get something more
permanent to include in the main distribution.  Also people may customize
their installations with features that are purely a matter a personal choice
(e.g. stuff in Site.mpl) that others might want to download.  A Plug-ins
page would help with that and give people the choice of modifying a feature
or not.

> 3) I think we only need two mailing lists/discussion forums: one
> for people
>    who are willing to read source code, and one for people who are not.  I
>    don't think that any finer subdivisions are useful in practice.

Yes.  Two lists are more than enough.  If we go with the JISC list and this
(aimmath-developers) list we should have a nice page at aimmath that
explains to people how to subscribe to JISC or alternatively make a single
list/forum at aimmath to replace JISC and ask the JISC subscribers to move
to that list (or forward the JISC posts through that list or something).

> Let me know what you think.

Sounds great.

KEN

Re: [Aimmath-developers] changes

[Manolis M. <ma...@ma...>]

Dear all..

  I may generate a lof of disagreemet with what I am going to say but :

> I tend to agree with Ken. There seem to be a lot of packages that were
> new in Maple 7, that make coding of AIM questions slicker and easier.

Although I agree, I would propose that the extra cool, slicker and easier
tools that Maple supports
are used in a sensible way and probably making sure that other CAS support
them (maybe not exactly the same code but but at least to be possible to do
something similar - I have no idea what you are referring to anyway) so as
we can easily re-use questions and possibly code in case we will not be able
to use Maple after some point or in general to accomodate other projects
(like Chris' one in Birmingham or our one ghere) that look into using freely
available CAS.

Regards,

Manolis

RE: [Aimmath-developers] AIM and Maple 9 not good news

[Ken M. <mo...@pt...>]

Hi all,

I just made Greg's suggested changes to my local copy:

> It should only be .mpl files in the WEB-INF/maple directory and
> subdirectories. I've just done the changes to a local develop_2_1 copy.
> Essentially, what I did was:
>
>   1. globally substituted LaTeX( for `aim/LaTeX`(
>   2. globally substituted `LaTeX/ for `aim/LaTeX/
>   3. moved the `aim/LaTeX... commands to aim/LaTeX.mpl
>   4. added: aim/LaTeX   to PackageList
>   5. added:
>
> if Config['MapleVersion'] <= 8 then
>   `Package/Assign`(`LaTeX/trim`        ,"", `aim/LaTeX/trim`):
>   `Package/Assign`(LaTeX               ,"", `aim/LaTeX`):
>   `Package/Assign`(`LaTeX/Subs`        ,"", `aim/LaTeX/Subs`):
>   `Package/Assign`(`LaTeX/Wrap`        ,"", `aim/LaTeX/Wrap`):
>   `Package/Assign`(`LaTeX/Display`     ,"", `aim/LaTeX/Display`):
>   `Package/Assign`(`LaTeX/DisplayParse`,"", `aim/LaTeX/DisplayParse`):
> fi;
>
>      to aim/LaTeX.mpl so that the old names are still available in
>      versions of Maple up to 8.

The only thing that needs to be added to this is:

6. Change the line:

    LaTeX::string,

to

   `aim/LaTeX`::string,

in aim/LaTeX.mpl.  I also changed the name of the LaTeX package to
"aim/LaTeX" at the top of the same file.  It seems to be working fine now.
Thanks Greg!

Another fine point here is that any question files that use the LaTeX()
command also have to be updated if you want them to work under Maple 9.

KEN

RE: [Aimmath-developers] changes

[Chris S. <san...@fo...>]

Neil,

Thanks for your prompt response.  I think it will take some of
us - and I certainly include myself here - a little time to get used to
CVS but that in the longer term it is going to be a very useful tool.

Specific comments below.

On Wed, 13 Aug 2003, Neil Strickland wrote:

> I think that in general we have too many branches, too many web sites, too
> many mailing lists and so on.  I would like to suggest:

I agree with this - it will be very confusing to new users or developers,
and may even be to us if we take a break from developments.

> 
> 1) We should have a development branch and a stable branch and that should
>    be it.  If you make a change that is reasonable enough that other people
>    might want to try it, then it can be committed to the development branch;
>    the change can always be reversed later if necessary.  If you are not
>    ready to to commit to the development branch, then the change can just
>    stay on your own machine, the CVS system need not see it at all.
> 
>    I think that Gustav wanted a private branch as a convenient way to sync
>    his home and office machines.  It would be OK to have branches like that,
>    if they are clearly marked as such.

I think this is sensible.

> 3) I think we only need two mailing lists/discussion forums: one for people
>    who are willing to read source code, and one for people who are not.  I
>    don't think that any finer subdivisions are useful in practice.

I agree with this - can we agree which to use?  I've just cross-posted a
mail to three places to ensure everyone gets it!

Obviously the developers are currently using 
AIM developers <aim...@li...>
which seems fine to me.

We seem to have two choices for the user discussion (perhaps there are
other options)

(1) continue to use the JISC mail list,
(2) use the forum mechanism on moodle in the aim home page.

I've no preference to this - if we agree (2) then I will send an email to
the JISC list and close it to new submissions but keep the archive open
for reference.

Again, what to people think?
Chris

RE: [Aimmath-developers] changes

[Greg G. <gr...@ma...>]

On Wed, 13 Aug 2003, Chris Sangwin wrote:
> As far as I can tell, functions from the package StringTools are
> not widely used in AIM.  Neil has already suggested using
> `Util\Percentsubs`(...) instead of StringTools[FormatMessage](...)
> The only other occurrences I can find are of
> StringTools[SubstituteAll]  Can we do away with StringTools
> altogether?  Is there any other reason why we need to upgrade to
> Maple 7?

Hmm! I had no idea that StringTools was as recent as that. I introduced
two further usages (of StringTools:-RegSub) in Aim.mpl and Make.mpl.
This regular expression tool provided by StringTools made it possible
do what I wanted in a slick one-liner ... I could rewrite it, but it
would end up much longer.

I tend to agree with Ken. There seem to be a lot of packages that were
new in Maple 7, that make coding of AIM questions slicker and easier.
It would be a shame to have to use more primitive tools just to ensure
backward compatibility with Maple 6. If we can, let's standardise and promise
backward compatibility to Maple 7 and try to fix AIM also for versions
up to Maple 9 (we have Maple 8 here ... Maple 9 is apparently available
within the university, but we haven't got it yet). 

  Regards,
  Greg

[Aimmath-developers] Maple versions supported in the planned release of AIM 3.0

[Chris S. <san...@fo...>]

Aim users,

Currently AIM 2.x works with Maple versions 6 and onwards.  In the recent
development of AIM some of the StringTools functions from Maple 7 have
been used.  There are other features in Maple 7 and future versions that
are useful when authoring questions.  Are there any users intending to
upgrade with the planned release of AIM 3 who require Maple 6, and who
cannot upgrade to Maple 7?  

If there are no such users currently there seems little point in
continuing to support Maple 6.

Thanks,
Chris Sangwin

RE: [Aimmath-developers] changes

[Greg G. <gr...@ma...>]

On Wed, 13 Aug 2003, Neil Strickland wrote:
> I think that in general we have too many branches, too many web sites, too
> many mailing lists and so on.  I would like to suggest:
> 
> 1) We should have a development branch and a stable branch and that should
>    be it.  If you make a change that is reasonable enough that other people
>    might want to try it, then it can be committed to the development branch;
>    the change can always be reversed later if necessary.  If you are not
>    ready to to commit to the development branch, then the change can just
>    stay on your own machine, the CVS system need not see it at all.
> 
>    I think that Gustav wanted a private branch as a convenient way to sync
>    his home and office machines.  It would be OK to have branches like that,
>    if they are clearly marked as such.
> 
> 2) I have removed my AIM distribution page, and replaced it with a link to
>    SourceForge.  I would suggest that other people do likewise; otherwise
>    we will end up with various sites offering incompatible versions and
>    causing horrible confusion.  It was useful to have alternatives when my
>    machine was the primary distribution source, as it was sometimes
>    unavailable; but that should hardly ever be a problem with SourceForge.
> 
>    I think that the SourceForge site currently refers to Ken Monks's site
>    for some of the installation instructions etc.  This should be changed
>    so that the SourceForge site is self contained.
> 
>    While I'm at it, I think that
>    (a) You should be able to get the stable version of AIM from
>        http://aimmath.sourceforge.net without having to go via
>        http://sourceforge.net/projects/aimmath
>    (b) The stable version should be provided as a zip file as well as a
>        tar file.
>    (c) It should be possible to access as much as possible of
>        http://aimmath.sourceforge.net without registering.  Where it is
>        possible to log in as a guest, the web site should make this as
>        obvious as possible.
> 
> 3) I think we only need two mailing lists/discussion forums: one for people
>    who are willing to read source code, and one for people who are not.  I
>    don't think that any finer subdivisions are useful in practice.
> 
> Let me know what you think.

I agree with all the above.

BTW Thanks Gustav and/or Neil for getting the list back up.

  Regards,
  Greg

RE: [Aimmath-developers] changes

[Ken M. <mo...@pt...>]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: aim...@li...
> [mailto:aim...@li...]On Behalf Of
> Chris Sangwin
> Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 10:31 AM
> To: AIM developers
> Subject: RE: [Aimmath-developers] changes
>
>
>
> Thank to Neil and Gustav who replied to this.
>
> There are two issues here.
>
> (1) The problem that generated the errors about too many open files have
> been fixed by Ken Monks who committed an updated file into a separate
> branch on CVS.   I'm not sure I understand why there is a separate branch
> here.  Have I done something wrong?

Hi Chris,

Being new to CVS and I didn't want to risk committing to the main
develop_2_1 branch yet, so I made a branch called KM to commit my changes
to.  I am making a lot of changes currently in trying to upgrade to Maple 9
and the new develop_2_1 branch, so I will continue to commit them to the KM
branch.  If people are happy with them we can merge the KM branch into the
develop_2_1 branch later.  I'm just playing it safe for now until I know
what I am doing with CVS.

If you want the changes in the meantime, you can just checkout the
develop_2_1 branch and then update your local copy to merge the KM branch
into it locally.  I think. :)

> (2) While I see no problem in updating our servers to Maple 7 (8 or even
> 9) I will send a general email to users asking if anyone *needs* us to
> retain back compatibility with Maple 6.   I believe we already agreed not
> to support Maple 5 in future.  Is that correct?

I guess if your poll shows that nobody needs Maple 6 there would be no
reason to bother trying to support it.  There are many nice new packages in
the newer Maple versions that make question writing and AIM coding easier,
so I think it would be beneficial to slowly move the requirements to newer
Maple versions.

ciao,
KEN
-----------------------------------------
Ken Monks - Professor of Mathematics
            University of Scranton
            Scranton, PA 18510
email: mailto:mo...@sc...
web:   http://www.scranton.edu/~monks
-----------------------------------------

RE: [Aimmath-developers] changes

[Neil S. <N.P...@sh...>]

Chris said:

> (1) The problem that generated the errors about too many open files have
> been fixed by Ken Monks who committed an updated file into a separate
> branch on CVS.   I'm not sure I understand why there is a separate branch
> here.  Have I done something wrong?

I think that in general we have too many branches, too many web sites, too
many mailing lists and so on.  I would like to suggest:

1) We should have a development branch and a stable branch and that should
   be it.  If you make a change that is reasonable enough that other people
   might want to try it, then it can be committed to the development branch;
   the change can always be reversed later if necessary.  If you are not
   ready to to commit to the development branch, then the change can just
   stay on your own machine, the CVS system need not see it at all.

   I think that Gustav wanted a private branch as a convenient way to sync
   his home and office machines.  It would be OK to have branches like that,
   if they are clearly marked as such.

2) I have removed my AIM distribution page, and replaced it with a link to
   SourceForge.  I would suggest that other people do likewise; otherwise
   we will end up with various sites offering incompatible versions and
   causing horrible confusion.  It was useful to have alternatives when my
   machine was the primary distribution source, as it was sometimes
   unavailable; but that should hardly ever be a problem with SourceForge.

   I think that the SourceForge site currently refers to Ken Monks's site
   for some of the installation instructions etc.  This should be changed
   so that the SourceForge site is self contained.

   While I'm at it, I think that
   (a) You should be able to get the stable version of AIM from
       http://aimmath.sourceforge.net without having to go via
       http://sourceforge.net/projects/aimmath
   (b) The stable version should be provided as a zip file as well as a
       tar file.
   (c) It should be possible to access as much as possible of
       http://aimmath.sourceforge.net without registering.  Where it is
       possible to log in as a guest, the web site should make this as
       obvious as possible.

3) I think we only need two mailing lists/discussion forums: one for people
   who are willing to read source code, and one for people who are not.  I
   don't think that any finer subdivisions are useful in practice.

Let me know what you think.

Neil

RE: [Aimmath-developers] changes

[Gustav W D. <gw...@yo...>]

> Im not sure I understand why there is a separate branch
> here.  Have I done something wrong?

There can be circumstances where individuals want to use their own branch. I
made an own branch for myself because I wanted to be able to do development
work on both my home machine and my office machine by committing any
half-baked changes before going home and again before going to the office.
Such changes that break the code should clearly not be committed to the
development branch. However I feel that any changes that are not expected to
break the system should be placed on the development branch as soon as
possible.

> I believe we already agreed not
> to support Maple 5 in future.  Is that correct?

That is correct.

Gustav

RE: [Aimmath-developers] changes

[Chris S. <san...@fo...>]

As far as I can tell, functions from the package StringTools are
not widely used in AIM.  Neil has already suggested using
`Util\Percentsubs`(...) instead of StringTools[FormatMessage](...)
The only other occurrences I can find are of
StringTools[SubstituteAll]  Can we do away with StringTools
altogether?  Is there any other reason why we need to upgrade to
Maple 7?

Chris

FYI - as far as I can tell, searching for StringTools across all AIM *.mpl
files we have the following.



(1) StringTools[SubstituteAll] in

Random.mpl
Lines 70, 249

(2) StringTools[FormatMessage] in

aim\MatrixQuestion.mpl
Line 261

aim\MultiQuestion.mpl
Line 247

aim\Question.mpl
Lines 193,446,460,576,642,679,1773,1903

RE: [Aimmath-developers] changes

[Chris S. <san...@fo...>]

Thank to Neil and Gustav who replied to this.

There are two issues here.

(1) The problem that generated the errors about too many open files have
been fixed by Ken Monks who committed an updated file into a separate
branch on CVS.   I'm not sure I understand why there is a separate branch
here.  Have I done something wrong?

(2) While I see no problem in updating our servers to Maple 7 (8 or even
9) I will send a general email to users asking if anyone *needs* us to
retain back compatibility with Maple 6.   I believe we already agreed not
to support Maple 5 in future.  Is that correct?

Chris


On Wed, 13 Aug 2003, Neil Strickland wrote:

> I suspect that StringTools is indeed the problem.  You can either upgrade
> to Maple 7, or you can replace StringTools[FormatMessage](..) by
> `Util/PercentSubs`(..) in all the source files.  I will try to arrange
> for the new release of AIM to work with Maple 6, by making changes of this
> kind.
> 
> I had hoped to be working on AIM again by now, but I am writing a major new
> first year course, which is taking a lot longer than I hoped.  I'll let you
> know when I have a bit more time.
> 
> Neil
> 
> > Neil, and other developers.
> >
> > I have been trying to install the develop_2_1 branch of AIM to test the
> > new features.  I obtainted the error shown below.  I know that StringTools
> > is not available in Maple 6, but is available in Maple 7 and I presume
> > later.  Is this the source of the problem?  Do I need to upgrade to Maple
> > 7? (which I don't think will be a problem) If so, is it intended that
> > Maple 7 be required for the new release of AIM?
> >
> > Cheers
> > Chris
> >
> 
> 

RE: [Aimmath-developers] changes

[Gustav W D. <gw...@yo...>]

The problem is that too many files are simultaneously open. That is because
I tried to streamline the installation process by having one file read in
the others automatically. Ken recently proposed a fix for this I believe but
the archive of this list is horrible and I can't find a thing. Perhaps you
still have his e-mail.

Gustav

> -----Original Message-----
> From: aim...@li...
> [mailto:aim...@li...]On Behalf Of
> Chris Sangwin
> Sent: 13 August 2003 13:47
> To: Neil Strickland
> Cc: AIM developers
> Subject: Re: [Aimmath-developers] changes
>
>
>
> Neil, and other developers.
>
> I have been trying to install the develop_2_1 branch of AIM to test the
> new features.  I obtainted the error shown below.  I know that StringTools
> is not available in Maple 6, but is available in Maple 7 and I presume
> later.  Is this the source of the problem?  Do I need to upgrade to Maple
> 7? (which I don't think will be a problem) If so, is it intended that
> Maple 7 be required for the new release of AIM?
>
> Cheers
> Chris
>
>
> C:\Tomcat\webapps\AIM\WEB-INF\maple>cmaple
>     |\^/|     Maple 6 (IBM INTEL NT)
> ._|\|   |/|_. Copyright (c) 2000 by Waterloo Maple Inc.
>  \  MAPLE  /  All rights reserved. Maple is a registered trademark of
>  <____ ____>  Waterloo Maple Inc.
>       |       Type ? for help.
> > read("AutoConf.mpl");
> AIM will now try to configure your system automatically.
> All messages from the configuration process will also be written
> in the file autoconf.log
>
> Maple version number is 6
> Operating system is not Unix, assumed to be some kind of Windows
> Reading user supplied options from ManualConfig.mpl
>
>                                problems := false
>
> Looking for Java
> Java found at c:\jdk1.3.1
>
> Looking for Tomcat
> Tomcat found at c:\tomcat
>
> Looking for Maple
> Maple found at C:\Program Files\Maple 6\bin.wnt\cmaple.exe
>
>
> Looking for upload directory
> upload directory found at C:\DOCUME~1\sangwinc\LOCALS~1\Temp
>
> Finding the host name
> Host name set to localhost
>
> Setting time zone
> Time zone set to GMT (= UTC +0 hours)
> Setting other configuration options
>
> Looking for TtH
> Number of lines processed approximately 1
> TtH found at C:\Program Files\tth_exe\tth.exe
>
> Writing Config.mpl and ServletConfig.mpl
> Renaming Config.mpl as Config.bak
>
> AIM was successfully configured.
> com.oreilly.servlet classes are already installed.
> bytes used=1001708, alloc=917336, time=0.46
> Reading Package.mpl...Error, (in pread) too many files
> simultaneously open for r
> eading
> done
> Error, `StringTools` does not evaluate to a module
> Error, could not open `lib/aim/AdminCommands.m` for writing
> Reading Aim.mpl...Error, (in pread) `StringTools` does not
> evaluate to a module
> Error, (in sprintf) format string expected
> Error, (in sprintf) format string expected
> Error, (in sprintf) format string expected
> done
> Reading AliceServer.mpl...Error, (in pread) could not open
> `lib/aim/AdminCommand
> s.m` for reading
> Error, (in pread) cannot evaluate boolean:
> OS/FileExists(c:/tomcat/webapps/AiM/WEB-INF/root/DefaultZone.mpl)
> done
> >
>
>
>
>
>
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