agtk-devel — AGTK Developers Mailing List

Re: [agtk-devel] AGAPI 2.0b1: GetAnchorSet returns unordered set

[Haejoong L. <hae...@un...>]

Hi Matthias,

So you are looking for a function which returns a time-ordered anchor 
list?  Then, you can use GetAnchorSetByOffset.

By the way, I just found two problems with ...SetByOffset functions.  
(There are two ...SetByOffset functions: GetAnchorSetByOffset and 
GetAnnotationSetByOffset.) It would have been better if the name was 
...ListByOffset.  The real problem is that in C++ implementation they 
return set<...> instead of list<...>.  This means what you get from 
these functions is actually a set of ids ordered by ids, not offsets!

I've updated the CVS repository with the fixes; they return lists now.  
This change doesn't affects Python and Tcl interfaces.  Thanks for 
making me realize those problems.

Finally, the SWIG interface files are available from the CVS:

    $ cvs -d:pserver:ano...@cv...:/cvsroot/agtk login
    [return at the login prompt]
    $ cvs  -d:pserver:ano...@cv...:/cvsroot/agtk co \
          -r Toward-2_0 AGLIB/src/ag_wrapper

Thanks,
Haejoong


Matthias Thomae wrote:

> Hello AGTK developers,
>
> in the new version of AGLIB, GetAnchorSet returns an unordered set of 
> anchors, even if they are sortable through their offsets.
>
> Are there specific reasons preventing to return an ordered list?
>
> If not, I would appreciate if this could be changed, otherwise I would 
> need to do the sorting outside AGLIB which would require some coding 
> and runtime efforts.
>
> Regards.
> Matthias
>
> P.S. I am trying to do the changes myself, but missing the SWIG 
> definition files...
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> Enterprise Linux Forum Conference & Expo, June 4-6, 2003, Santa Clara
> The only event dedicated to issues related to Linux enterprise solutions
> www.enterpriselinuxforum.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> agtk-devel mailing list
> agt...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/agtk-devel
>
>

[agtk-devel] Re: [agtk-announce] AGLIB 2.0b1 released

[Haejoong L. <hae...@un...>]

Guido,

About the CVS branches:  Currently "Toward-2_0" is the development 
branch.  Probably I'll merge it into the main trunk before the final 2.0 
release, which I expect to be a couple of weeks.

The current applications do not use AGLIB 2.0 yet.  But any next release 
of those will use AGLIB 2.0.

Thanks,
Haejoong


Guido Di Maio wrote:

> Which is the development CVS branch for version 2.0 ?
> Is the HEAD or the Toward-2_0 ?
> What about the tcl application (Treetrans, ...)? are they aligned with 
> AGLIB 2.0b ?
>
> thanks.
> Guido DI Maio
>
> Haejoong Lee wrote:
>
>> Greetings!
>>
>> We are pleased to announce a beta release of AGLIB 2.0. There have 
>> been many changes since AGLIB 1.1, including API changes. For those 
>> changes please consult included documentations (doc/cnahges.html) or 
>> our web site:
>>
>> http://agtk.sourceforge.net/doc/aglib/2.0/changes.html
>>
>> For other information on AGLIB 2.0, please refer to doc/index.html or 
>> AGLIB 2.0 documentations on our web site:
>>
>> http://agtk.sourceforge.net/doc/aglib/2.0/
>>
>> For the general information on the AGTK project, please check:
>>
>> http://agtk.sourceforge.net/
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> AGTK development team
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------
>> Enterprise Linux Forum Conference & Expo, June 4-6, 2003, Santa Clara
>> The only event dedicated to issues related to Linux enterprise solutions
>> www.enterpriselinuxforum.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> agtk-announce mailing list
>> agt...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/agtk-announce
>>
>
>
>

[agtk-devel] [Fwd: Re: [agtk-announce] AGLIB 2.0b1 released]

[Haejoong L. <hae...@un...>]

[agtk-devel] AGAPI 2.0b1: GetAnchorSet returns unordered set

[Matthias T. <th...@ei...>]

Hello AGTK developers,

in the new version of AGLIB, GetAnchorSet returns an unordered set of 
anchors, even if they are sortable through their offsets.

Are there specific reasons preventing to return an ordered list?

If not, I would appreciate if this could be changed, otherwise I would 
need to do the sorting outside AGLIB which would require some coding and 
runtime efforts.

Regards.
Matthias

P.S. I am trying to do the changes myself, but missing the SWIG 
definition files...

Re: [agtk-devel] [gilles@harfang.homelinux.org: AG Structure]

[Haejoong L. <hae...@un...>]

Oops, there are typos.

>    <Annotation start="c" end="d">
>      <Feature id="ann2" name="txt">are</Feature>
>      <Feature name="right_sibling">ann3</Feature>
>    </Annotation> 


This should be:

<Annotation id="ann2" start="c" end="d">
  <Feature name="txt">are</Feature>
  ...
</Annotation>

>    <Annotation start="e" end="f">
>      <Feature id="ann3" name="txt">you</Feature>
>      <Feature name="right_sibling"></Feature>
>    </Annotation>


Similarly, this should be:

<Annotation id="ann3" start="e" end="f">
  <Feature name="txt">you</Feature>
  ...
</Annotation>


Haejoong

Re: [agtk-devel] [gilles@harfang.homelinux.org: AG Structure]

[Haejoong L. <hae...@un...>]

Gilles,

>It's been a long time...  I don't know if you ever received my last e-mail (it dates back five months!); I never got the answer anyway.
>

Sorry if I didn't respond some of your messages.  In the last message 
dated back to Nov. 27, 2002, I see one thing that is not addressed in 
this email:

    It would be interesting to give it a try.  As I have not really looked
    into the aglib source code until now, I'd appreciate if you could point
    where this filter code should belong, and maybe some programming
    guidelines for such a module.

For this question, please check:

    http://agtk.sourceforge.net/doc/aglib/2.0/newformat.html

This is a file I/O plugin development guideline for aglib 2.0, which we 
hope to release soon.  It's quite stable.  We haven't released it 
because proofreading of the document is not complete yet.  I'm thinking 
about releasing a beta version before we finish proofreading.

>But never mind.  Just to remind you of me: I have been working with Linguistics people who try to establish a convention for annotating audio-visual interaction. The design was researched by L. Balthasar in his PhD (based on current practice in Pragmatics): it is called STAVIS.  As many categories of data must be transcribed, the problem of the representation of these data was posed; Balthasar's thesis presents a typographical convention, suitable for a human reader but rather inadequate for computer processing.  After reading S. Bird's articles, I started to try and convince my colleagues of using the AG as the basis for the data structure of the STAVIS convention.
>  
>

Hmm... So how would you address the offset problem?  Obviously, we can't 
mix two offset systems in annotation graph: orthographic and 
chronological systems.

>One thing I had proposed in my previous mail is to send you a Perl script I wrote to convert the Trancriber format (conforming to 'trans-13.dtd') into AIF (ag.dtd).  I'd be interested if someone could give some feedback on it...
>  
>

That's great.  Would you send me the script and some sample files please.

>The second thing which I write for is to ask confirmation on the assumptions concerning the AG structure.  The reason is that I'm trying to process AIF files using the XQuery language, and I'm starting to find some things rather difficult to achieve without assumptions stronger than the structure imposed by the AG DTD.
>
>I am sorry if the questions seem obvious...
>
>1. <AGSet> can comprise multiple <AG>; what is the purpose of this possibility (i.e. how did you intend it to be used)?
>

Well, it's not clear, and different applications utilize the possibility 
in various ways.  In some applications, one AG represents one annotation 
file.  In other applications, an annotation file consists of many 
sentences and each AG represents one sentence.  There is another 
application where each AG represents one channel (or one speaker) of a 
wave file.

>2. Inside an <AG>, is it assumed that the <Anchor> are all somehow connected by <Annotation> elements (by this I mean that, starting from the first anchor, it must be possible to reach the last one by following a sequence of annotations), or can the <AG> consists in multiple disconnected annotations?  As an example (some mandatory elements and attributes, but not neccessary for the sake of the argument, have been omitted), consider:
>
><AGSet>
>  <AG>
>    <Anchor id="a"/>
>    <Anchor id="b"/>
>    <Anchor id="c"/>
>    <Anchor id="d"/>
>    <Anchor id="e"/>
>    <Anchor id="f"/>
>    <Annotation start="a" end="b">
>      <Feature name="txt">how</Feature>
>    </Annotation>
>    <Annotation start="c" end="d">
>      <Feature name="txt">are</Feature>
>    </Annotation>
>    <Annotation start="e" end="f">
>      <Feature name="txt">you</Feature>
>    </Annotation>
>  </AG>
><AGSet/>
>
>Is the previous graph acceptable?  Although valid by the dtd, you can't deduce that it represents the sentence "how are you" because the annotations are disconnected.  Without "offset" attributes there is no ordering.  A more adequate representation (i.e. with explicit ordering) would be with the graph:
>
><AGSet>
>  <AG>
>    <Anchor id="a"/>
>    <Anchor id="b"/>
>    <Anchor id="c"/>
>    <Anchor id="d"/>
>    <Annotation start="a" end="b">
>      <Feature name="txt">how</Feature>
>    </Annotation>
>    <Annotation start="b" end="c">
>      <Feature name="txt">are</Feature>
>    </Annotation>
>    <Annotation start="c" end="d">
>      <Feature name="txt">you</Feature>
>    </Annotation>
>  </AG>
><AGSet/>
>

The second one looks better and easy to deal with.  However, the first 
one should be also acceptable as a valid AG.  For me, annotation graph 
is just a data modeling language.  How to apply the language fully 
depends on the implementor's decision.  For instance, there could be an 
alternative for the above example:

<AGSet>
  <AG>
    <Anchor id="a"/>
    <Anchor id="b"/>
    <Anchor id="c"/>
    <Anchor id="d"/>
    <Anchor id="e"/>
    <Anchor id="f"/>
    <Annotation id="ann1" start="a" end="b">
      <Feature name="txt">how</Feature>
      <Feature name="right_sibling">ann2</Feature>
    </Annotation>
    <Annotation start="c" end="d">
      <Feature id="ann2" name="txt">are</Feature>
      <Feature name="right_sibling">ann3</Feature>
    </Annotation>
    <Annotation start="e" end="f">
      <Feature id="ann3" name="txt">you</Feature>
      <Feature name="right_sibling"></Feature>
    </Annotation>
  </AG>
</AGSet>

This doesn't look good, but should we prevent people from doing this?  I 
don't know... probably not.

>Finally, a pratical question:  About two weeks ago it was possible to subscribe to the "agtk-devel" mailing list, but it seems to have disappeared again from the project page...  I think it would be the place to discuss such things.
>  
>

My understanding is that posting is done by email.  The messages are 
archived at the following URL (it's tricky to find this archive URL though):

    http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=1720

Steven has set the forum not to be public in the project web site.  This 
makes the forum disappeared.  There must be a reason for him to do this.

Thanks,
Haejoong

[agtk-devel] [gilles@harfang.homelinux.org: AG Structure]

[Haejoong L. <hae...@un...>]

----- Forwarded message from gi...@ha... -----

Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 01:25:31 +0200
To: hae...@un...
Cc: sde...@ul...
Subject: AG Structure
From: gi...@ha...

Hello Haejoong,


It's been a long time...  I don't know if you ever received my last e-mail (it dates back five months!); I never got the answer anyway.
But never mind.  Just to remind you of me: I have been working with Linguistics people who try to establish a convention for annotating audio-visual interaction. The design was researched by L. Balthasar in his PhD (based on current practice in Pragmatics): it is called STAVIS.  As many categories of data must be transcribed, the problem of the representation of these data was posed; Balthasar's thesis presents a typographical convention, suitable for a human reader but rather inadequate for computer processing.  After reading S. Bird's articles, I started to try and convince my colleagues of using the AG as the basis for the data structure of the STAVIS convention.

One thing I had proposed in my previous mail is to send you a Perl script I wrote to convert the Trancriber format (conforming to 'trans-13.dtd') into AIF (ag.dtd).  I'd be interested if someone could give some feedback on it...

The second thing which I write for is to ask confirmation on the assumptions concerning the AG structure.  The reason is that I'm trying to process AIF files using the XQuery language, and I'm starting to find some things rather difficult to achieve without assumptions stronger than the structure imposed by the AG DTD.

I am sorry if the questions seem obvious...

1. <AGSet> can comprise multiple <AG>; what is the purpose of this possibility (i.e. how did you intend it to be used)?
2. Inside an <AG>, is it assumed that the <Anchor> are all somehow connected by <Annotation> elements (by this I mean that, starting from the first anchor, it must be possible to reach the last one by following a sequence of annotations), or can the <AG> consists in multiple disconnected annotations?  As an example (some mandatory elements and attributes, but not neccessary for the sake of the argument, have been omitted), consider:

<AGSet>
  <AG>
    <Anchor id="a"/>
    <Anchor id="b"/>
    <Anchor id="c"/>
    <Anchor id="d"/>
    <Anchor id="e"/>
    <Anchor id="f"/>
    <Annotation start="a" end="b">
      <Feature name="txt">how</Feature>
    </Annotation>
    <Annotation start="c" end="d">
      <Feature name="txt">are</Feature>
    </Annotation>
    <Annotation start="e" end="f">
      <Feature name="txt">you</Feature>
    </Annotation>
  </AG>
<AGSet/>

Is the previous graph acceptable?  Although valid by the dtd, you can't deduce that it represents the sentence "how are you" because the annotations are disconnected.  Without "offset" attributes there is no ordering.  A more adequate representation (i.e. with explicit ordering) would be with the graph:

<AGSet>
  <AG>
    <Anchor id="a"/>
    <Anchor id="b"/>
    <Anchor id="c"/>
    <Anchor id="d"/>
    <Annotation start="a" end="b">
      <Feature name="txt">how</Feature>
    </Annotation>
    <Annotation start="b" end="c">
      <Feature name="txt">are</Feature>
    </Annotation>
    <Annotation start="c" end="d">
      <Feature name="txt">you</Feature>
    </Annotation>
  </AG>
<AGSet/>


Finally, a pratical question:  About two weeks ago it was possible to subscribe to the "agtk-devel" mailing list, but it seems to have disappeared again from the project page...  I think it would be the place to discuss such things.


Best regards,

Gilles Sadowski

----- End forwarded message -----

[agtk-devel] [Fwd: AG Structure]

[Haejoong L. <hae...@ld...>]

[agtk-devel] Mac OSX distributions

[Steven B. <sb...@cs...>]

Is there anyone out there who would be interested in
preparing Mac OSX distributions of the AGTK tools?

I think there's a rather large community who would welcome
this.

-- 
Steven Bird        Email: <sb...@cs...>  Web:
http://www.cs.mu.oz.au/~sb/
A/Prof, Dept of Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Vic 3010,
Australia
Senior Research Assoc, Linguistic Data Consortium, University of
Pennsylvania
Telephone: +61 3 8344-1324; Department: +61 3 8344-9101; Fax: +61 3
9348-1184

Re: [agtk-devel] developing a file I/O plugin

[Haejoong L. <hae...@un...>]

Guido,

Your plan looks just right.  I can guess that you looked at 2.0 source
or documentations because you mentioned "plugin."  As you pointed out,
the key point in adding a file I/O plugin is the parser (or loader).=20
Unfortunately there is no direct support for that format.

Lex/Yacc seem to be a good choice.  I tried flex/bison with aglib
before, and I think there was no problem mixing them.  What the parse
does is to create AG objects (AGSet, Timeline, Signal, AG, Annotation
and Anchor) as it parses through the given annotation file.  Once you
finish the parser, to complete the plugin, you need to wrap your
parser with load() method of agfio_plugin class.  There is a toy
example for this in the aglib cvs:

http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/agtk/AGLIB/src/formats/MyF=
ormat/?only_with_tag=3DToward-2_0

The RE class in aglib might come in handy when you write your parser.
If you need further information on plugin stuff, just let me know.

Thanks,
Haejoong


On Thu, Mar 20, 2003 at 11:37:49AM +0100, Guido Di Maio wrote:
> Hi,
> is nobody there ?
>=20
> I'm evaluating if I can use AGLIB to annotate and align my transcriptio=
ns.
> In order to do that, I would like to figure out how I can write the=20
> parser for my transcription.
>=20
> this is the process I have to implement:
>=20
> 1) The source file is a (dialogs) transcription which is quite similar=20
> to CHAT/CHILDES format (see an example on the bottom of this message).
> In the transcription there is no sort of time stamps. Hence, I have to=20
> parse the text and to create the annotation graph WITHOUT temporal=20
> references.
>=20
> 2) The second step should consist in aligning the AG to the sound track=
.=20
> This step should be done in a semi automatic way;
> In order to do this I should have to develop a suitable tool. The=20
> alignment process is a separate from step 1) because the the kind of=20
> transcription is
> too time consuming.
>=20
> 3) The further step could be the editing of the AG in order to edit=20
> existing annotation levels and to add new annotation ones.
>=20
> What do you think about the work-flow I have just presented ?
>=20
> Yesterday I had a look to the AGLIB code and I appreciate the=20
> extensibility of the file wrapper.
> So the problem in carrying out step 1) is to extend the agfio class.
> The problem is the file parser. As you can see below, the transcription=
=20
> file does NOT have a predefined number of field (record) per line (or=20
> per turn).
> Thus the Record class does not seem to fit my need.
>=20
> Do you have any suggestion ?
> The best way to write such a parser is to write my own parser or to use=
=20
> lex and yacc ?
>=20
> Thanks in advance.
> Guido Di Maio
>=20
>=20
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> *MIC: pi=F9 bello ... no / no pi=F9 bello // =E8 pi=F9 brutto rispetto =
+
> *ANT: agli altri //
> *MIC: agli altri film di [/] di Villaggio // pi=F9 brutto xxx // cio=E8=
 / si=20
> vede che lui cerca le battute / per far ridere // non gli vengono=20
> spontanee // quindi ... no / comunque / si ride lo stesso // tutto ...
> *ANT: io / ho visto una scena in televisione // una + era / sai / di=20
> quelle fatte per / presentare i film // per=F2 era simpatico // <c' era=
> +
> *MIC: [<] <mah> / # non lo so / =E8 + cio=E8 / mi sono divertito // per=
=F2 /=20
> non come altre volte // tipo / Fantozzi / poi / Fantozzi contro tutti /=
=20
> poi / Il secondo tragico Fantozzi / e tanti altri // insomma / tutto=20
> sommato / <piace> //
> *ANT: [<] <io mi> [/] io mi ricordo di averne visto uno / che mi piacev=
a=20
> // a me Villaggio sta antipatico // per=F2 / insomma ... quando ho vist=
o +=20
> non mi ricordo com' era il titolo // per=F2 / era simpatico // quando c=
'=20
> era / &he / il panettiere / che era l' amante della moglie ...
> *MIC: ah // forse <xxx> +
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Tablet PC. =20
> Does your code think in ink? You could win a Tablet PC.=20
> Get a free Tablet PC hat just for playing. What are you waiting for?=20
> http://ads.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?micr5043en
> _______________________________________________
> agtk-devel mailing list
> agt...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/agtk-devel

[agtk-devel] developing a file I/O plugin

[Guido Di M. <gui...@TI...>]

Hi,
is nobody there ?

I'm evaluating if I can use AGLIB to annotate and align my transcript=
ions.
In order to do that, I would like to figure out how I can write the=
=20
parser for my transcription.

this is the process I have to implement:

1) The source file is a (dialogs) transcription which is quite simila=
r=20
to CHAT/CHILDES format (see an example on the bottom of this message)=
.
In the transcription there is no sort of time stamps. Hence, I have t=
o=20
parse the text and to create the annotation graph WITHOUT temporal=
=20
references.

2) The second step should consist in aligning the AG to the sound tra=
ck.=20
This step should be done in a semi automatic way;
In order to do this I should have to develop a suitable tool. The=
=20
alignment process is a separate from step 1) because the the kind of=
=20
transcription is
too time consuming.

3) The further step could be the editing of the AG in order to edit=
=20
existing annotation levels and to add new annotation ones.

What do you think about the work-flow I have just presented ?

Yesterday I had a look to the AGLIB code and I appreciate the=20
extensibility of the file wrapper.
So the problem in carrying out step 1) is to extend the agfio class.
The problem is the file parser. As you can see below, the transcripti=
on=20
file does NOT have a predefined number of field (record) per line (or=
=20
per turn).
Thus the Record class does not seem to fit my need.

Do you have any suggestion ?
The best way to write such a parser is to write my own parser or to u=
se=20
lex and yacc ?

Thanks in advance.
Guido Di Maio


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
*MIC: pi=F9 bello ... no / no pi=F9 bello // =E8 pi=F9 brutto rispett=
o +
*ANT: agli altri //
*MIC: agli altri film di [/] di Villaggio // pi=F9 brutto xxx // cio=
=E8 / si=20
vede che lui cerca le battute / per far ridere // non gli vengono=
=20
spontanee // quindi ... no / comunque / si ride lo stesso // tutto ..=
.
*ANT: io / ho visto una scena in televisione // una + era / sai / di=
=20
quelle fatte per / presentare i film // per=F2 era simpatico // <c' e=
ra> +
*MIC: [<] <mah> / # non lo so / =E8 + cio=E8 / mi sono divertito // p=
er=F2 /=20
non come altre volte // tipo / Fantozzi / poi / Fantozzi contro tutti=
 /=20
poi / Il secondo tragico Fantozzi / e tanti altri // insomma / tutto=
=20
sommato / <piace> //
*ANT: [<] <io mi> [/] io mi ricordo di averne visto uno / che mi piac=
eva=20
// a me Villaggio sta antipatico // per=F2 / insomma ... quando ho vi=
sto +=20
non mi ricordo com' era il titolo // per=F2 / era simpatico // quando=
 c'=20
era / &he / il panettiere / che era l' amante della moglie ...
*MIC: ah // forse <xxx> +
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D

Re: [agtk-devel] Problem with TreeTrans

[kike f. <sis...@si...>]

Jatorrizko mezua: data: og., 2003-01-16 17:48, egilea: Empar Bisbal
Asensi
>  I had the same problem. You need to add in file window.py a line like:
> 
>     import ChangeTrees

Thank you very much. Now TreeTrans is able to draw trees.

Kike

> 
> 
> 
>    Empar.
> 
> 
-- 
Kike Fernandez - IXA Taldea
http://ixa.si.ehu.es
Informatika Fakultatea
Euskal Herria / Basque Country

[agtk-devel] Re: Problem with TreeTrans

[Steven B. <sb...@un...>]

Beth - are you continuing to maintain TreeTrans?  If so I'd be grateful if
you'd look into this.  (Please let the list know what eventuates.)

Thanks,
-Steven

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Subject: [agtk-devel] Problem with TreeTrans
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X-Original-Date: 16 Jan 2003 17:05:27 +0100
Date: 16 Jan 2003 17:05:27 +0100

Hi,

We are trying AGTK package here (both in GNU/Linux and Windows) and
TreeTrans give this error:

If we select "New Sentence" in "Functions" menu we get this:

Exception in Tkinter callback
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File
"/usr/src/build/87651-i386/install/usr/lib/python2.2/lib-tk/Tkinter.py",
line 1292, in __call__
    return apply(self.func, args)
  File "/root/treetrans-0.93/python/agtk/tree/window.py", line 309, in
onNewSentence
NameError: global name 'ChangeTrees' is not defined

Is this a known problem and soes anybody know a solution?

-- 
Kike Fernandez - IXA Taldea
http://ixa.si.ehu.es
Informatika Fakultatea
Euskal Herria / Basque Country



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[agtk-devel] Problem with TreeTrans

[kike f. <sis...@si...>]

Hi,

We are trying AGTK package here (both in GNU/Linux and Windows) and
TreeTrans give this error:

If we select "New Sentence" in "Functions" menu we get this:

Exception in Tkinter callback
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File
"/usr/src/build/87651-i386/install/usr/lib/python2.2/lib-tk/Tkinter.py",
line 1292, in __call__
    return apply(self.func, args)
  File "/root/treetrans-0.93/python/agtk/tree/window.py", line 309, in
onNewSentence
NameError: global name 'ChangeTrees' is not defined

Is this a known problem and soes anybody know a solution?

-- 
Kike Fernandez - IXA Taldea
http://ixa.si.ehu.es
Informatika Fakultatea
Euskal Herria / Basque Country

Re: [agtk-devel] compiling under Win32

[Haejoong L. <hae...@un...>]

Gregor,

> What is the best way to compile aglib?

We have been able to compile aglib packages in windows platforms using
cygwin and vc++, and once using mingwin.


> I have tried with cygwin with precompiled xerces-c library, but the build
> failed (because the xerces-c lib is a static library?). 

If that's the reason, you might want to compile xerces-c by yourself
using vc++ or anything to get dll version of that library.  There is
an alternative, although you may find it more difficult.

If you have vc++ compiler, we have project files for aglib, although
we don't release them officially.  I'll send it in seperate email.

There are some prerequisites:

  * vc++ tweak
    - you need to make vc++ recognize .cc files as c++ sources
    - [http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;en-us;q181506]
  * stlport [http://www.stlport.com/download.html]
    - to use hash_map and hash_set, which vc++ doesn't support
  * python 2.2
    - headers and libraries for ag python module compilation
  * xerces-c
    - headers and libaraies for ag file io compilation

NB. Header/library directories of stlport, python and xerces-c should
be added to the vc++'s search path lists.  stlport directories should
be on top in the lists.

NB. You might have to compile python and xerces-c by yourself using
vc++.  They have vc++ project files, so it's not very difficult.

--
Haejoong

[agtk-devel] compiling under Win32

[Moehler, G. <mo...@so...>]

I want to recompile aglib under Win2000. The reason is to have ag =
running
with Python2.2.

What is the best way to compile aglib?

I have tried with cygwin with precompiled xerces-c library, but the =
build
failed (because the xerces-c lib is a static library?).=20

Any help is appreciated.

Gregor M=F6hler

________________________________
Gregor M=F6hler
Sony International (Europe) GmbH  =20
Hedelfinger Str. 61
70327 Stuttgart
Germany

Tel: +49 711 5858 273
Fax: +49 711 5858 740=20

[agtk-devel] MultiTrans with video?

[Steven B. <sb...@un...>]

Is there any interest in putting together a video version of MultiTrans?
Kazuaki's already done it for TableTrans (python).  It would need to be
done in tcl for MultiTrans, or MultiTrans would need to be ported to
python first.

-Steven

------- Forwarded Message

Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 18:29:08 +0100
From: Piero Cosi <co...@cs...>
Subject: 
To: Steven Bird <sb...@ld...>
Reply-to: Piero Cosi <co...@cs...>
Organization: IFD - CNR

Hi Steven

I tried to run and use your wonderful
Multitrans tool (AGTK) as for speech alone It works correctly
with my configuration:
Windows 2000
Snack 2.2
Tcl 8.4
Wavesurfer 1.4.6

What about video I know that there is a version with speech and
video!
Is it possible yo use it?
How can I get it?

Thanks for your wonderfull works and your support

CIAOOO
Piero
____________________________________________
Piero Cosi
Istituto di Scienza e Tecnologie della Cognizione
Sezione di Padova "Fonetica e Dialettologia"
Consiglio Nazionale delle Ricerche
Via G. Anghinoni, 10 - 35121 Padova
Phone: +39 049 8274413 /21
Fax:      +39 049 8274416
E-Mail:  co...@cs...
www:   http://nts.csrf.pd.cnr.it/IFD/Pages/piero.htm
www:   http://www.csrf.pd.cnr.it/IFD/Pages/piero.htm
____________________________________________

------- End of Forwarded Message

Re: [agtk-devel] [gilles@harfang.homelinux.org: AG Questions]

[Haejoong L. <hae...@un...>]

Hi Gilles,

I've posted your message on agtk-devel mailing list.

Here are my answers for your questions.  I hope other members can
answer some of your questions too.

About agtk-devel sourceforge list:  Steven, I think we can make the
mailing list public, can't we?

1. I don't think we have Pratt <-> AG filter.  Because of the limit on
our resources, I wonder if we will be developing such filter in near
future.  Thus contribution from the community is always more than
welcome.  If you can write c++ filters for AGTK, that's great.  If you
can write Python or Tcl filters, that is also great, although we will
have to rewrite using c++.

2. I think the AG data model itself makes "distributed AG" possible.
Maybe Xiaoyi can answer this question regarding the source code.

3. We wrote Transcriber input/output filter for internal use.  Nicolas
Garbe took this filter to check, and it didn't work for him.  I asked
him for a precise format description, and I didn't get the answer.
So, this work is on hold.

4. Annotation type is used to make classes of annotations like
phoneme, word and sentence as in TIMIT examples.  Annotation feature
adds information about the object annotated by the annotation.  Since
there is no restriction on how the feature is used, it's okay a
feature has a field for annotation type.  There must be a special
reason for doing so in the examples you've seen.

5. As long as I concern, if it's efficient for large data and we can
implement Kleene closure operation [http://arXiv.org/abs/cs.CL/0204004]
easily, there is no problem.  I believe Steven has something to say on
this issue.


Haejoong

P.S. To agtk-devel members: Please don't forget to CC to
gi...@ha...


On Tue, Nov 19, 2002 at 02:22:51PM -0500, Haejoong Lee wrote:
> ----- Forwarded message from Gilles Sadowski <gi...@ha...> -----
> 
> Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 00:16:47 +0100
> From: Gilles Sadowski <gi...@ha...>
> To: hae...@un...
> Subject: AG Questions
> 
> Hi.
> I sent you the following mail 5 days ago, and only today I got a message 
> from my mail server that it hadn't been able to deliver it!  So I try 
> again in the hope you'll get it this time.
> Best regards.
> 
> Haejoong Lee wrote:
> 
> >I'm do sorry, I thought you were on the mailing list.
> >Here is Steven's answer for your question. -- Haejoong
> >
> >----- Forwarded message from Steven Bird <sb...@cs...> -----
> >
> >To: Haejoong Lee <hae...@un...>
> >cc: Kazuaki Maeda <ma...@un...>,
> >   Xiaoyi Ma <xm...@un...>, agt...@li...
> >From: Steven Bird <sb...@cs...>
> >Subject: Validating feature values
> >Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 11:32:03 EDT
> >
> >[...]
> >
> Thanks for the answer.  Indeed I only subscribed to 'agtk-announce'.
> Right now, I wanted to subscribe to 'agtk-devel' but, strangely, 2 of
> the 3 agtk mailing lists don't show up on the sourceforge page!
> 
> So I hope you won't mind my asking another round of questions directly
> to you.
> 
> 1.  You probably know the speech analysis software "Praat".  Are there
> some filter tools that would enable data interchange between Praat and
> AGTK tools?  That could be something like a converter from Praat 'Text
> File' format to an "ag.dtd" conformant document.  But a more elaborate
> access would be through a "standard" module that could insert Praat data
> via any AGTK-based annotation tool...
> Going the other direction (AGTK -> Praat) would be interesting too (e.g.
> to do a tone analysis on selected parts of a speech signal being
> annotated with AGTK, and directly insert the result...), using the
> 'sendpraat' utility program...
> 
> 2.  Does AGLIB have provision for dealing with "distributed" AG.  By
> distributed, I mean, for example, 2 documents referring to the same
> signal, but containing different types of <Features>?  I already asked
> this question, and I think the answer was 'yes', but could you point out
> where in the code this is dealt with?
> 
> 3.  Is there a tool for converting 'Transcriber' data into AG?
> 
> 4.  Could you explain the difference between the 'type' attribute in
> <Annotation> and <Feature> (because I've noticed that in many examples,
> the 2 are in fact assigned the same value)?
> 
> 5.  About the problem of validating <Feature>s, Steven Bird said:
> 
> > [...] An ongoing research activity is to define an AG query language 
> which can be
> > used to make declarations of well-formedness, then compile this into SQL
> > for efficient execution.  This would make it possible for any AG data 
> file
> > to document the details of its structure (by including a query expression
> > in its header, say), and likewise for AG tools to document the 
> assumptions
> > they make about AG data.  Going a step further, we might be able to
> > automatically determine what tools could be applied to what AG data.
> > Unfortunately this is all pie in the sky right now.[...]
> 
> 
> Do you think the W3C XQuery language (and, somehow, RDF) could be used 
> for that purpose?
> 
> 
> Many thanks for your time.
> 
> Gilles Sadowski
> 
> 
> 
> ----- End forwarded message -----
> 
> 
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[agtk-devel] [gilles@harfang.homelinux.org: AG Questions]

[Haejoong L. <hae...@un...>]

----- Forwarded message from Gilles Sadowski <gi...@ha...> -----

Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 00:16:47 +0100
From: Gilles Sadowski <gi...@ha...>
To: hae...@un...
Subject: AG Questions

Hi.
I sent you the following mail 5 days ago, and only today I got a message 
from my mail server that it hadn't been able to deliver it!  So I try 
again in the hope you'll get it this time.
Best regards.

Haejoong Lee wrote:

>I'm do sorry, I thought you were on the mailing list.
>Here is Steven's answer for your question. -- Haejoong
>
>----- Forwarded message from Steven Bird <sb...@cs...> -----
>
>To: Haejoong Lee <hae...@un...>
>cc: Kazuaki Maeda <ma...@un...>,
>   Xiaoyi Ma <xm...@un...>, agt...@li...
>From: Steven Bird <sb...@cs...>
>Subject: Validating feature values
>Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 11:32:03 EDT
>
>[...]
>
Thanks for the answer.  Indeed I only subscribed to 'agtk-announce'.
Right now, I wanted to subscribe to 'agtk-devel' but, strangely, 2 of
the 3 agtk mailing lists don't show up on the sourceforge page!

So I hope you won't mind my asking another round of questions directly
to you.

1.  You probably know the speech analysis software "Praat".  Are there
some filter tools that would enable data interchange between Praat and
AGTK tools?  That could be something like a converter from Praat 'Text
File' format to an "ag.dtd" conformant document.  But a more elaborate
access would be through a "standard" module that could insert Praat data
via any AGTK-based annotation tool...
Going the other direction (AGTK -> Praat) would be interesting too (e.g.
to do a tone analysis on selected parts of a speech signal being
annotated with AGTK, and directly insert the result...), using the
'sendpraat' utility program...

2.  Does AGLIB have provision for dealing with "distributed" AG.  By
distributed, I mean, for example, 2 documents referring to the same
signal, but containing different types of <Features>?  I already asked
this question, and I think the answer was 'yes', but could you point out
where in the code this is dealt with?

3.  Is there a tool for converting 'Transcriber' data into AG?

4.  Could you explain the difference between the 'type' attribute in
<Annotation> and <Feature> (because I've noticed that in many examples,
the 2 are in fact assigned the same value)?

5.  About the problem of validating <Feature>s, Steven Bird said:

> [...] An ongoing research activity is to define an AG query language 
which can be
> used to make declarations of well-formedness, then compile this into SQL
> for efficient execution.  This would make it possible for any AG data 
file
> to document the details of its structure (by including a query expression
> in its header, say), and likewise for AG tools to document the 
assumptions
> they make about AG data.  Going a step further, we might be able to
> automatically determine what tools could be applied to what AG data.
> Unfortunately this is all pie in the sky right now.[...]


Do you think the W3C XQuery language (and, somehow, RDF) could be used 
for that purpose?


Many thanks for your time.

Gilles Sadowski



----- End forwarded message -----

Re: [agtk-devel] Re: Question about events and format.

[Steven B. <sb...@cs...>]

Dear Fredrik,

> The first question addresses the need for labeling of events. 
> In acoustical phonetic analysis, there are quite a few 
> situations where the object in question is not a time interval, 
> but a point in time. Such example in phonetics is the onset of 
> voicing, turing points in the formant track or the articulatory 
> release of a plosive. How do you propose that this kind of 
> annotation should be handles in the AG library, given the 
> definition of the graph.

Haejoong has described two good approaches to this.  There are
two others to consider.

a) Put the label of the durationless event on an arc which ends (or begins)
at that point in time.  This is what our ToBI example does - the break
indices are specified as properties of the preceding word, even though they
pertain to the strength of the prosodic break between words.

Annotation graphs as a framework for multidimensional linguistic data
analysis http://www.ldc.upenn.edu/sb/home/publications.html#9907003

b) Saying that phonetic events are durationless is an abstraction.  It may
be more faithful to represent them using small intervals, and to use
annotations that span a small amount of time.

> The second issue regards format extentions. In my project, I 
> use the Praat software since it's annotation format facilitates 
> the distinction between intervalls and points.
> Therefore, in order for me to use the AGTK, I would have to 
> have an object that parses the Praat files and inherits from 
> agfio. The thing is that I have already constructed a similar 
> object in Python (using regexp), which would mean that 
> writing such a module should be close to trivial.
> However, since I guess that I am not the only one interrested 
> in such an extension, it would probably be better if that 
> module would be developed within the development team of 
> AGTK. The quality and consistency would probably increase, 
> and changes in the API would probably be easier to transfer 
> to all modules that way.
> Therefore, if you think that it is a good idea to include 
> support of the Praat program to AGTK, I suggest that I send 
> you Perl/Python code (from my project) including regexp in 
> order for you to be able to include support for Praat 
> annotations in AGTK. That way, I and many others would be 
> able to use the AG library for the Praat format as well.

We should definitely support Praat format, and will add it to our long list
of features to add.  Note that there's nothing inherently difficult about
loading from a format that represents instants, and representing them in
any of the four ways we've described.  Steve Cassidy has already had to
deal with this in representing EMU data using annotation graphs
[http://www.shlrc.mq.edu.au/emu/].

The quickest way to go (as in all open source projects) would of course be
for you to contribute code to the file I/O library.  Would you consider
doing that?  Haejoong could then look it over and it would show up in our
next release?

Thanks for getting in touch, and we hope you decide to use the library and
contribute to its further development.

Steven Bird

--
Steven Bird        Email: <sb...@cs...>  Web: http://www.cs.mu.oz.au/~sb/
A/Prof, Dept of Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Vic 3010, AUSTRALIA
Senior Research Assoc, Linguistic Data Consortium, University of Pennsylvania

[agtk-devel] Re: Question about events and format.

[Haejoong L. <hae...@un...>]

Dear Fredrik,

I'm copying this message to agtk developer mailing list.  I have
an answer for the first question.  For the second question, I'd
like to hear other senior members' opinions.  By the way, I don't
have a Ph.D. degree.  (I don't know if I want to have one :-)

There are two methods we have been using to label a time point.
In the first method, the time point label becomes a feature of
other annotations.  For example, suppose an event, say event_01,
which occurs at the boundary of words.  In the following
annotation graph, to label event_01 that occurs at 14.1 sec can
be represented as follows:

     ____   ____   ____   ____
    / 22 \ / 23 \ / 24 \ / 25 \   ---> 'word' type annotations
   o      o      o      o      o
  12.7   13.2   13.9   14.1   15.0

  feature of annotation 24:  text = "cat"
                             pos = "noun"
                             event_01 = "true"
                             ...


In the second method, we make an annotation, of which the start
and end anchors have the same time.  In this method, the
assumption that event_01 orrurs only at the boundary of words
is not necessary.  Here is the example:

                    ______________
     ____   ____   / 24  ___      \
    / 22 \ / 23 \ /     /25 \      \
   o      o      o     o     o      o
  12.7   13.2   13.9 14.1   14.1   15.0
                          
  22, 23, 2 4:  'word' type annotations
  24 :  'event_01' type annotation


Note that back/circular arcs are not allowed in annotataion
graphs.  Annotation graph API doesn't prevent that though.

Can you think of other ways to do it?

Thanks,
Haejoong


On Fri, Oct 25, 2002 at 05:31:29AM -0700, Fredrik Karlsson wrote:
> Dear Dr. Lee,
> 
> I recently discovered the AG toolkit and found that it overlaps 
> substatially with something that I've just started to develop 
> for handling of my thesis data. Also, it provides a number of 
> features that I had opted against due to time limitations (such 
> as database connectivity).Therefore, using the already 
> developed AGTK would obviosly save me a lot of time.
> 
> However, I have two questions that I feel that I would like to 
> ask the development team before discontinuing my own 
> project.
> The first question addresses the need for labeling of events. 
> In acoustical phonetic analysis, there are quite a few 
> situations where the object in question is not a time interval, 
> but a point in time. Such example in phonetics is the onset of 
> voicing, turing points in the formant track or the articulatory 
> release of a plosive. How do you propose that this kind of 
> annotation should be handles in the AG library, given the 
> definition of the graph.
> 
> The second issue regards format extentions. In my project, I 
> use the Praat software since it's annotation format facilitates 
> the distinction between intervalls and points.
> Therefore, in order for me to use the AGTK, I would have to 
> have an object that parses the Praat files and inherits from 
> agfio. The thing is that I have already constructed a similar 
> object in Python (using regexp), which would mean that 
> writing such a module should be close to trivial.
> However, since I guess that I am not the only one interrested 
> in such an extension, it would probably be better if that 
> module would be developed within the development team of 
> AGTK. The quality and consistency would probably increase, 
> and changes in the API would probably be easier to transfer 
> to all modules that way.
> Therefore, if you think that it is a good idea to include 
> support of the Praat program to AGTK, I suggest that I send 
> you Perl/Python code (from my project) including regexp in 
> order for you to be able to include support for Praat 
> annotations in AGTK. That way, I and many others would be 
> able to use the AG library for the Praat format as well.
> 
> Please tell me what the development team think about this.
> 
> Yours truely,
> 
> /Fredrik Karlsson

[agtk-devel] Validating feature values

[Steven B. <sb...@cs...>]

Gilles Sadowski <gi...@ha...> wrote:
> Now that I've the library compiled, I'm going to start asking another 
> type of questions :-).
> Thanks again for your swift and useful help in resolving the problem!
> 
> I read in Bird's and Liberman's article ("A formal framework for 
> linguistic annotation <http://arXiv.org/abs/cs/0010033>") that the 
> content of a 'Feature' is simply character data (i.e. #PCDATA, in the 
> DTD file "ag.dtd"), although preferably structured values, as proposed 
> by Dublin Core.

That's right - we said that the AG formalism didn't specify any structure
or semantics for the content of an arc label (or "feature").

> The problem I see with that scheme is that, in the case there exist 
> particular constraints on the 'Feature' contents, we would need a 
> special piece of software to enforce them and validate the contents of 
> the produced documents.

Right, but the C++ library could contain a collection of standard
validation functions to support application developers (extending the
Validation.cc functions I wrote back in June).

> If 'Feature' would be allowed to contain other 
> XML elements, we could benefit from the XML Schema, for example, to 
> define the constraints, and then "standard" validation tools could 
> validate the documents.

So far, our demonstration applications have all been for *creating*
annotation data.  In this context, any validation of feature content
is best done at the time the data is being entered, rather than later
once it is exported to XML.  (Then there are the further problems that
XML Schema validators differ in their coverage of the standard and in
their supported platforms, and that XML Schema cannot express some
common kinds of constraints over the representation we've chosen,
e.g. "if feature_x1=y1 then feature_x2=y2").

> I'd like to have your opinion about that.  Does it make sense?  Even in 
> the affirmative, it might have a too great impact on the structure of 
> the AG library to be implemented...  Is it worth it or are there strong 
> disadvantages to this approach?

Basically, the issue of how best to manage special-purpose content models
is a research question.  We've approached the problem in two ways: defining
a high-level API on top of AGLIB, which only permits well-formed structures
and features to be created by applications; OR hard-coding the constraints
into the applications themselves.  In the last six months or so, we've
realized that both of these approaches need to be implemented in a way that
is "type-safe".  I.e. every time a constraint is tested on some aspect of
graph structure or content, it is only tested on the annotations of a
specified type.  Thus, we don't touch other annotations in the AG that
might have been created by some other tool that this tool knows nothing
about.  You'll notice that the validation functions in Validation.cc all
require a type argument.

An extension to the above is to add some declarations to the metadata,
which inform the application about validation details (e.g. in the
interlinear text tool).

An ongoing research activity is to define an AG query language which can be
used to make declarations of well-formedness, then compile this into SQL
for efficient execution.  This would make it possible for any AG data file
to document the details of its structure (by including a query expression
in its header, say), and likewise for AG tools to document the assumptions
they make about AG data.  Going a step further, we might be able to
automatically determine what tools could be applied to what AG data.
Unfortunately this is all pie in the sky right now.

I think the expedient approach is to do validation in software at runtime,
and to put widely-useful validation functions in AGLIB.

Steven Bird

--
Steven Bird        Email: <sb...@cs...>  Web: http://www.cs.mu.oz.au/~sb/
A/Prof, Dept of Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Vic 3010, AUSTRALIA
Senior Research Assoc, Linguistic Data Consortium, University of Pennsylvania

[agtk-devel] problem with Treetrans

[Alicia A. P. <ag...@ls...>]

Hello AGTK developers,
I have downloaded the AGTK Windows 1.1 release =

in order to use Teetrans tool for editing parse trees =

for Spanish sentences. I find that whenever the words in
the sentence contain either accents or genuine Spanish =

characters like "=F1", there is an error and the sentence =

is not loaded. =

Is there any form to avoid this? =

                      =

Regards,

Alicia Ageno
TALP Research Center
Barcelona

Re: [agtk-devel] tree api for treebanks only?

[Steven B. <sb...@cs...>]

Matthias,

> In short, the tree api is not general purpose.  It assumes ag structure
> generated by treebank loader, which has "syn", "pos" and "wrd" type
> annotations.  It would ignore other types of annotations.

This is correct, however as you've correctly understood from the Cotton &
Bird paper, we have a much broader vision here.  We'd like our AG library
to support the creation and manipulation of trees, regardless of their
linguistic interpretation.

I think it would be relatively straightforward to create a general purpose
version of this code where the types are simply parameters that get passed
through the interface.  You're very welcome to contribute code, and/or
patches.  If you want to pursue this, we can flesh out more of the details
on this list.

-Steven

--
Steven Bird        Email: <sb...@cs...>  Web: http://www.cs.mu.oz.au/~sb/
A/Prof, Dept of Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Vic 3010, AUSTRALIA
Senior Research Assoc, Linguistic Data Consortium, University of Pennsylvania

Re: [agtk-devel] tree api for treebanks only?

[Haejoong L. <hae...@un...>]

Hi Matthias,

In short, the tree api is not general purpose.  It assumes ag structure
generated by treebank loader, which has "syn", "pos" and "wrd" type
annotations.  It would ignore other types of annotations.

Haejoong


On Fri, Oct 04, 2002 at 09:59:38AM +0200, Matthias Thomae wrote:
> Hello AGTK developers,
> 
> I would like to know if the current tree implementation is specially
> tailored to Treebanks, or if it is generally usable, e.g. for semantic
> trees as well. I would like to use this for an annotation task of
> non-overlapping hierarchies of semantic annotations, taking advantage of
> the insured data integrity when using the elementary tree operations
> described in the Cotton and Bird paper.
> 
> My doubts about the genericity of the current implementation arose
> because there are hard-coded annotation types as "syn", "pos" and "wrd"
> in the kernel functions (e.g. tree_left() in tree_kernel.cc).
> 
> Regards.
> Matthias
> 
> 
> 
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