agilewiki-wiki — General discussion.

[AgileWiki] Second thoughts--highLow and simpleAccounting

[Bill la F. <bil...@su...>]

First, lets rename fields.txt, rolons.txt and commands.txt to 
AgileWiki3.fields, AgileWiki3.rolons and AgileWiki3.commands, but lets 
leave them where they are.

Now lets also have the logic which processes these files also process 
all *.fields, *.rolons and *.commands files in the working directory. 
This way installation is only a matter of adding the application .jar 
file to the lib directory and adding the extension files to the working 
directory.

And then lets make the highLow game and the simpleAccounting application 
separate projects, and provide install scripts for them.

Now we have complete examples of how to write an application, mm?

Bill

[AgileWiki] An obvious design flaw

[Bill la F. <bil...@su...>]

This morning I started working on a guide for installing, delpoying and 
using the SimpleAccounting application. I only got as far as installing 
when I realized that installation of applications in general is 
needlessly complicated. The problem is that the .txt files used to 
extend AW3 are stuck in the JAR file. So when installing a new 
application, you've got to either unpack or update the JAR file. This is 
not a good thing.

An alternative is to access rolons.txt, fields.txt and commands.txt from 
the current [working] directory.

Bill

[AgileWiki] Curly brace notation for inclusions

[Bill la F. <bil...@su...>]

Well, I've dropped the idea of inline LSecs in favor of something a bit 
more exciting: inclusions.

The cruly brace notation {+name} is used to include the document content 
of rolon "name". This, when combined with html, gives us a whole bunch 
of capability.

Consider an html table in one document. Cells in the table can now hold 
the content of other documents. Its all composed at runtime, and any 
"component" can be edited online.

This work was done for a "day job project" at Sun Microsystems.

Bill

[AgileWiki] The NoGuests DEnt, SimpleAccounting

[Bill la F. <bil...@su...>]

Prior to generating the display for a rolon, the User Interface Model 
(UIM) now first checks to see if the NoGuests Descriptor Entry has been 
set. If it has been set and the user name is "Guest" (i.e. the user has 
not logged in), then instead of the document being displayed, a message 
is given directing the user to login or register before proceeding. 
(Links for these commands are also provided.)

Now remember that a Ledger Entry in a Rolon's Descriptor Unit has the 
same effect as having a Descriptor Entry in the Rolon itself.

This behavior has been requested as part of an application I am working 
on for Sun Microsystems (i.e. my day job). However, it seems appripriate 
for any application rolon. Consequently I've now changed the deploy for 
SimpleAccounting to set this LEnt in the SimpleAccountingDescriptorUnit.

I'll note that I've also updated the documentation for DEnts and LEnts 
at agilewiki.org.

Bill

[AgileWiki] external links

[Bill la F. <bil...@su...>]

We need to be able to link to any Rolon from an external web page. The 
problem has been that determining the URL is sometimes difficult. This 
has been solved.

Now, when using a browser to access AgileWiki, the pathname at the top 
of the display is a link to that same page. Click on the link and the 
browser displays the URL.

This change was previously listed in OpenIssues as a requirement for 
3.2. However, it was done as part of the requirements for a project at 
Sun Microsystems.

Bill

Re: [AgileWiki] a pressing matter--anyone interested in writing some commands?

[Bill la F. <bil...@su...>]

Ed,

I'm an old CODASYL guy myself. The rolonic database I've developed is a 
cross between CODASYL and OODBMS. :-)

Note that Relational databases are based on a theory of data. Its a bad 
fit for the information age. This rolonic database is based on a theory 
of knowledge. So applications fit it very nicely. Hmm. I think you could 
also say that so far the part of the database that has been implemented 
in version 3 provides support for information, while the classifiers 
which should be implemented in perhaps 3.3 will complete the knowledge 
management capabilities.

Now it sounds like, with your current work schedule, you should spend 
some time on the beach. Literally. I assure you, you are going to need a 
fresh mind to get into rolonic programming. Remember how hard it was for 
us old Cobol programmer types to grok OO! (Well, not me, but a lot of 
others seemed to have a difficult time of it back in the '80s.)

The thing to keep in mind is that rolonics is a world view, dealing with 
knowledge. Its a way of thinking about thinking. And you don't need a 
rolonic database to do rolonic programming--but it helps. Rolonics also 
contains nothing new. Norm, the father of Rolonics, is always saying 
that it is a collection of ideas from many sources. He just assembled 
it. He says that while it is based on holonics, it is also the answer to 
the reason why systems theory fails--systems always being a collection 
of whoe/parts, so any real system is always out of scope of systems 
theory which can't handle that particular case. :-)

Just keep in mind one thing. Everything has relationships, behavior, 
state and history. Take that as your world view. Now look at a checkbook 
application. Its all there, just badly implemented (as are most 
applications which deal with history). Now look at a personal 
information management system. Its not all there, but it should be. Once 
you understand the rolonic view, you begin to notice major holes in most 
computer applications. Turn that around, and you will find that most 
applications can easily be implemented when you have a nice rolonic 
application platform that does all the heavy lifting for you.

I am looking forward to working with you, actively. We've got quite a 
crew already, but things are very quiet. My guess is that there is quite 
a learning curve involved. And you will not get past that just by 
looking at the code. You've got to adopt a rolonic world view and then 
play with the agile wiki and see how it all fits together.

I'm also thinking that some documentation of our sample application, 
SimpleAccounting, is going to help a lot. But really, I'm only guessing 
as to why everyone is so quiet.

Again, you are welcome to participate in this project, and in this 
rolonic programming movement I'm trying to start. I figure its going to 
be a slow start--a few years. I also figure there's lots of economic 
opportunities here, though in due time. :-( Perhaps JBoss is the wrong 
model. Perhaps Microsoft would be a better one? With lots of the early 
developers becoming millionares? I don't know. I just hope the software 
is better than windoze! :-D

Bill

Ed Tidwell wrote:

>Bill La Forge wrote:
>  
>
>>Ed,
>>
>>Mmm, no. There is no JDBC. You can think of the database as an OODBMS, 
>>as long as you don't look too closely.
>>    
>>
>Bill,
>Is serializing objects to a file system still considered a database?  :-)
>
>
>Work is shipping a new Market Risk trading system that goes live at the 
>end of the week.  Been working 15+ hour days but next week I got the 
>entire week off at the beach.  :-D
>
>Give me 2 weeks and I will be happy to jump in with both feet.
>
>I noticed at Java One this year a lot of folks pushing Derby.  Looks 
>like it might even get bundled with the JDK down the road as a 'Java 
>RDBMS' alternative for simple stuff.
>
>I use to work with Poet and Gemstone and am pretty aware of how OO 
>databases work.  Ironically everywhere I worked when it came time to do 
>reporting or provide a query tool that tossed in a small RDBMS server 
>that gleaned the object model.  ;-)
>
>Take care,
>Ed
>  
>

Re: [AgileWiki] a pressing matter--anyone interested in writing some commands?

[Ed T. <ed-...@ca...>]

Bill La Forge wrote:
> Ed,
>
> Mmm, no. There is no JDBC. You can think of the database as an OODBMS, 
> as long as you don't look too closely.
Bill,
Is serializing objects to a file system still considered a database?  :-)


Work is shipping a new Market Risk trading system that goes live at the 
end of the week.  Been working 15+ hour days but next week I got the 
entire week off at the beach.  :-D

Give me 2 weeks and I will be happy to jump in with both feet.

I noticed at Java One this year a lot of folks pushing Derby.  Looks 
like it might even get bundled with the JDK down the road as a 'Java 
RDBMS' alternative for simple stuff.

I use to work with Poet and Gemstone and am pretty aware of how OO 
databases work.  Ironically everywhere I worked when it came time to do 
reporting or provide a query tool that tossed in a small RDBMS server 
that gleaned the object model.  ;-)

Take care,
Ed

[AgileWiki] documentation on extensibility

[Bill la F. <bil...@su...>]

I've now completed a fairly light document on extensibility. You will 
find it at agilewiki.org in the
drawer /Applications/Extensibility.

I expect to continue working on documenting applications, 
SimpleAccounting in particular. Perhaps tomorrow? I expect to spend much 
of today working on a new application for the office.

I'm thinking that the first thing I need to do today is to extend brace 
notation so that the content of another rolon's document can be included 
in a display. Now, think of a nice HTML table, where each cell holds the 
content of an LSec. Users can then comment on, or edit, the contents of 
each cell.

Bill

[AgileWiki] Tables documentation done

[Bill la F. <bil...@su...>]

At agilewiki.org you will find the Tables cabinet which documents 
tables, their implementation and usage.
It's brief (a one pager), but comprehensive.

Enjoy!

Bill

[AgileWiki] beta release 3.1.0.0

[Bill la F. <bil...@su...>]

The following was anounced on the AgileWiki forum at 
http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?forum_id=367038

OK, we are back to beta status, with a reimplemented tables capability. 
Note that several bugs have been corrected since the last release and 
you will need to create your database from scratch with this release. 
(Unless you are prepared to do surgery on all the Descriptor Units, as 
was done with many of the cabinets at agilewiki.org.) 
 
As a bonus, this release also includes a complete sample 
application--SimpleAccounting--which, while not a whole lot of code, is 
a complete single entry accounting system.  
 
AgileWiki3.1.0.0 is still not very agile. In fact, it is a pain to use. 
But that will change. However, it does include versioning and access 
control, and is intended as a next generation application platform. 
 
Please also note that the documentation in the wiki itself at 
http://agilewiki.org continues to grow, though much of it is now 
intended for developers. 
 
Download: 
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=106672&package_id=179488 
 
Note that the AwSwingClient3.1.0.0.zip file is pre-configured to work 
with http://agilewiki.org but will only work until the next release--the 
first 3 parts of the version number is checked!

[AgileWiki] Colabrative process development (cpd): a design, an estimate

[Bill La F. <Wil...@Su...>]

Some very fine news. I have an assignment from my day job at Sun 
Microsystems to build a tool for the workplace (below). I'll be doing 
the development as part of the AgileWiki itself, though I need to give 
credit to Sun, probably in the source code. But like the rest of 
AgileWiki, it will be open source. (The mandate within Sun is that just 
about everything will eventually be open source.)

Bill

This is an initial design and estimate for capturing feedback. My 
suggestion is that the process proposal itself be in the Ark, including 
any auxilary documents such as a FAQ. This will allow everything to be 
properly versioned and kept in sync. Note that with this design, 
comments will always be associated with the appropriate section 
regardless of changes to the section names over time. This will be a 
major simplifier when it comes to analyzing the data.

*Design*

The "main page" would be accessible from an external link in an external 
document, which provides a simple introduction. This main page would be 
what I call a custom display. If the user is not logged in, it would 
contain only links for login and registration. (An extra click for the 
user, but it simplifies the implementation for now.

Under this "main page" would be the FAQ and a number of sections. The 
"main page" would contain a link to the FAQ, which would in turn contain 
a link back to the "main page".

The sections would hold various sections of the proposed process 
document and would include a special link (under the section id or 
number) which would run a command in the context of the section. The 
"main page" would include in its display the content of all the 
sections, sorted by section id. The user would then simply click on 
either the FAQ link (or links to other documents) or on one of the 
special section link.

The command included in the special section link would change the 
context to the appropriate section and display both the section and a 
form for entering feedback. In addition, there would be a special link 
on the main page for feedback on additional sections to be added or for 
reordering sections.

Once the user completes the form, which would consist of a single 
multi-line text area, the feedback would be captured, attached to both 
the section and the "main page", and then the user would then be 
returned to the "main page".

*Estimate*

I figure 2-3 days for this project, possibly less.

[AgileWiki] Documentation on Descriptors

[Bill La F. <Wil...@Su...>]

I've just completed a short document on Descriptors.

This can be found in the Descriptors Cabinet at http://agilewiki.org

Feedback is always appreciated. And as I am writing this documentation 
specficly for this group, it would be helpful to know how effective this 
documentation is.

Tables are next.

Bill

[AgileWiki] newbie advice

[Bill La F. <Wil...@Su...>]

Alex and all,

One thing I can not repeat often enough. Use the tool. Go to 
http://agilewiki.org and create an account. Then click on home to take 
you to your own Cabinet. And experiment. (Just don't use setDU, setLEnt, 
setCEnt or setDEnu--these commands can destroy the integrity of the 
database.)

Also, once you get used to the wiki interface, play with the rolonic 
interface. This will get you more familiar with the terms defined in the 
UserGuide cabinet. And the overall orientation is necessary to 
contribute to the development (and testing!) of the AgileWiki.

Bill

Re: [AgileWiki] Hi people, I am new here.

[Bill la F. <bil...@su...>]

An easy question, a great way to begin.

go to http://agilewiki.org

enter the wiki

read the documentation

And you will find the todo list under the OpenIssues cabinet.

:-)

Bill

Alex Cheung wrote:

>ok my 1st + 2nd question is
>
>where do I start?
>where is the to do list??
>
>guess I'll try to install n run the source code 1st
>
>this is my 1st time joining an open source project
>
>Alex
>  
>

Re: [AgileWiki] Hi people, I am new here.

[Alex C. <qw...@ho...>]

ok my 1st + 2nd question is

where do I start?
where is the to do list??

guess I'll try to install n run the source code 1st

this is my 1st time joining an open source project

Alex

>From: Bill La Forge <Wil...@Su...>
>Reply-To: General discussion <com...@li...>
>To: General discussion <com...@li...>
>Subject: Re: [AgileWiki] Hi people, I am new here.
>Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 11:24:42 +0530
>
>Welcome, Alex!
>
>I hope you like asking questions. Things have been too quiet for my liking.
>
>Bill
>
>Alex Cheung wrote:
>
> >Hi people
> >I am Alex and I wish to join your merry band of dev.
> >
> >I have a degree in software eng and about 2 years of exp in j2se and 
>various
> >other technologies.
> >
> >Alex
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Need more speed? Get Xtra Broadband @
> >http://jetstream.xtra.co.nz/chm/0,,202853-1000,00.html
> >
> >
> >
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
> >Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job 
>easier
> >Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache 
>Geronimo
> >http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
> >_______________________________________________
> >Compstrm-wiki mailing list
> >Com...@li...
> >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/compstrm-wiki
> >
> >
>
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
>Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job 
>easier
>Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
>http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
>_______________________________________________
>Compstrm-wiki mailing list
>Com...@li...
>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/compstrm-wiki

_________________________________________________________________
Become a fitness fanatic @  http://xtramsn.co.nz/health

Re: [AgileWiki] Hi people, I am new here.

[Bill La F. <Wil...@Su...>]

Welcome, Alex!

I hope you like asking questions. Things have been too quiet for my liking.

Bill

Alex Cheung wrote:

>Hi people
>I am Alex and I wish to join your merry band of dev.
>
>I have a degree in software eng and about 2 years of exp in j2se and various 
>other technologies.
>
>Alex
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Need more speed? Get Xtra Broadband @ 
>http://jetstream.xtra.co.nz/chm/0,,202853-1000,00.html
>
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
>Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
>Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
>http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
>_______________________________________________
>Compstrm-wiki mailing list
>Com...@li...
>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/compstrm-wiki
>  
>

[AgileWiki] Hi people, I am new here.

[Alex C. <qw...@ho...>]

Hi people
I am Alex and I wish to join your merry band of dev.

I have a degree in software eng and about 2 years of exp in j2se and various 
other technologies.

Alex

_________________________________________________________________
Need more speed? Get Xtra Broadband @ 
http://jetstream.xtra.co.nz/chm/0,,202853-1000,00.html

[AgileWiki] Where are we, where are we going, objectives

[Bill La F. <Wil...@Su...>]

To start with, we've got a pretty fast transactional database that's 
been reasonably solid since release 3.0.0.0.

We've got versioning and access control.

We've got a user interface (rolonic) which allows you to 
define/create/edit/destroy virtually anything in the database.

We've got a structured wiki that is hosting the documentation.

And we've got a sample application demonstrating how applications can be 
implemented.

On the other hand, the documentation is only just started.

The API needs a lot of work.

Only about half the commands are implemented.

And the wiki interface is anything but agile.

My first objective is to make the user experience a good one. Otherwise 
no one will be interested for very long.

My second one is to make the API for implementing applications clear and 
easy to use.

But my overall objective is to build a community of developers building 
interesting applications on top of the AgileWiki and working to extend 
it in interesting ways.

I also want to build this up as a business that provides a fine return 
to the active participants, something more exciting than JBOSS.

So what can we do to get there?

Bill

Re: [AgileWiki] a pressing matter--anyone interested in writing some commands?

[Bill La F. <Wil...@Su...>]

Ed,

Mmm, no. There is no JDBC. You can think of the database as an OODBMS, 
as long as you don't look too closely.

Actually, the objects aren't even Java objects. And the in-memory 
objects are simply data proxies with methods. And in-memory data isn't 
even stored in the data proxy objects, its stored in 
transactionally-aware caches.

Now here's the thing. The operations are easy, but some aspects of the 
API stink. I've been too busy getting things to work to focus to much on 
the clarity and usability of the API.

So, could your share your fresh view of the API? Lets go over some 
things together and see if we can't do some refactoring to add some clarity?

Or would it be more appropriate to discuss why I went with a whole new 
kind of database? Not that anyone really likes relational, but it is the 
industry standard, has been around a long time without anything better 
popping up, and a whole lot of folks know how to design systems around 
it! :-)

In any case, I appreciate your comment--everyone has been way too quiet 
for too long. And that's a terrible thing.

There's lots of contriversial things here. And I make a lot of wild 
claims. There should be pleanty to discuss!

Bill

Ed Tidwell wrote:

>Bill La Forge wrote:
>  
>
>>We need some commands then to create a descriptor unit,
>>to create a table descriptor unit and its columns table,
>>to create a row, and
>>to edit a row.
>>
>>Anyone interested?
>>
>>  
>>    
>>
>If I can use a POJO with simple CRUD (Create, Read, Update, Delete) JDBC 
>commands I've already got code for this.  ;-)
>Somehow I don't think this is what you had in mind though is it? 
>  
>

Re: [AgileWiki] a pressing matter--anyone interested in writing some commands?

[Ed T. <ed-...@ca...>]

Bill La Forge wrote:
>
> We need some commands then to create a descriptor unit,
> to create a table descriptor unit and its columns table,
> to create a row, and
> to edit a row.
>
> Anyone interested?
>
>   
If I can use a POJO with simple CRUD (Create, Read, Update, Delete) JDBC 
commands I've already got code for this.  ;-)
Somehow I don't think this is what you had in mind though is it? 
> Bill
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
> _______________________________________________
> Compstrm-wiki mailing list
> Com...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/compstrm-wiki
>
>   

[AgileWiki] simple accounting sample application is done

[Bill la F. <bil...@su...>]

the code looks a whole lot better with the new api.

Still, I know it [the API] can be improved. Some of it is still pretty bad.

So I guess we're ready for beta release 3.1.0.0, mm?

I should also spend some time now on documentation.

Bill

[AgileWiki] agilewiki.org updated

[Bill la F. <bil...@su...>]

I put together 1.0.1.1 and installed it on agilewiki.org. Then I found a 
bug in the definition of RowDescriptorUnit. (The Type LEnt had not been 
updated to Row.) So I rebuilt the jar file and just uploaded that.

I don't see any need to release 1.0.1.1 externally as we are in alpha.

And now that that's out of the way, I'm back to updating our sample 
application. Gotta make it work with the new implementation of tables.

Bill

[AgileWiki] ready to release

[Bill la F. <bil...@su...>]

I'll release 3.0.1.1 in the morning, unless anyone finds something.

--I just added row. Forgot to check it in eariler.

Also, the edit command no longer applies to tables.

Note also that the deploySimpleAccounting now works, but only when you 
are in a DescriptorUnits Drawer.

Now I'm thinking that we are (again!) very close to beta--3.1.0.0. But 
we have a few days and perhaps we can add a bit more functionality. 
Personally I'd like to continue with SimpleAccounting, as that has been 
the driving force behind a lot of this big change to tables. I just want 
to see what it feels like to program to it. But mostly I'm thinking we 
need to do a bunch of refactoring to make a nice API.

Bill

[AgileWiki] a goof

[Bill La F. <Wil...@Su...>]

Big changes make errors likely. In this case, I should have defined the 
Row rolon.

The Row rolon allows us to attach commands to it, like editing a row. (I 
really do not want to depend on setLEnt.)

Bill

[AgileWiki] a pressing matter--anyone interested in writing some commands?

[Bill La F. <Wil...@Su...>]

We currently have no easy way to add rows to a table or to edit a 
table's contents.

Easy enough to do, really, but you need to be admin (or be working in 
your own cabinet) and you need to use some reserved commands via the 
rolonic interface.

To create a row, first create an LSec. Then use setDU to change the 
row's descriptor unit to RowDescriptorUnit.
Then add cell values to the row with the setLEnt command.

The same is true, but worse, if you want to create a table descriptor 
unit. Create a folder in the DescriptorUnits Drawer, set the du to 
TableDescriptorUnitDescriptorUnit, use setLEnt to set Type to the 
appropriate table descriptor unit. Then create a Columns lsec in the 
folder, set the du of the folder to ColumnsDescriptorUnit and add the 
rows as above.

We need some commands then to create a descriptor unit,
to create a table descriptor unit and its columns table,
to create a row, and
to edit a row.

Anyone interested?

Bill