[afp-renderer-developers] Re: FOP AFP Renderer

[Pete T. <pet...@gm...>]

Jeremias, Manuel,

A signed CLA is in the post to via traditional snail mail. The AFP 
Renderer was orginally written by myself with Joe providing bug fixing 
plus support so we should only require CLA's from Joe and myself (Joe I 
assume you'll be sending one off as well). I've had a quick look at the 
alpha release today and don't think it will be too much effort to 
migrate as it stands. A little more effort may be required to integrate 
with FOrayFont so that Font Metrics are available (the AFP Renderer 
obtains Font Metrics from the AFP Font files - hence the need for them 
to be available).

Manual, please let me know your SourceForge user name and I'll get you 
added with CVS access to the AFP Renderer Project. I plan to create a 
CVS branch tomorrow evening so that we can get started on the migration.

I can also contact Terrapin to see if they would be prepared to grant a 
the fonts under an AFP license and sign a CLA. They were quite helpful 
when I contacted them before - Alternatively someone from ASF could try 
IBM (they weren't too interested when it was just me!)  for a small open 
source font library?

Regards, Pete.


Jeremias Maerki wrote:

>Hello all,
>
>let me chime in here. Manuel already introduced me. I'll be helping the
>AFP Renderer to migrate into the official Apache FOP repository on the
>legal side. See some comments inline.
>
>On 29.11.2005 11:15:04 Joe Schmetzer wrote:
>  
>
>>I've cc'd afp-renderer-developers to keep a public record of this
>>conversation. Manual, I have a few questions for you at the bottom of
>>this email, so read on...
>>
>>On Mon, 28 November, 2005 11:27 pm, Pete Townsend wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>Manuel Mall wrote:
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Pete,
>>>>
>>>>as you may be aware the Apache FOP project has just released an alpha
>>>>version of the new code base.
>>>>
>>>>We have received some expressions of interest to make an AFP renderer
>>>>available for the new version of FOP. I have therefore taken the
>>>>liberty to use your FOP 0.20.5 AFP Renderer code as a basis for a
>>>>porting attempt to the new FOP code base. This project is still in its
>>>>infancy and nothing is working yet.
>>>>        
>>>>
>>Excellent! I'm really pleased that you've taken the inititive on this
>>work. Pete and I are both fairly busy, and not yet familiar with the new
>>FOP architecture, so this project would take us a very long time.
>>    
>>
>
>From the perspective of a Renderer writer not so much has changed.
>
>  
>
>>It's interesting to hear that there is demand for the AFP Renderer to
>>become a core renderer.
>>    
>>
>
>That's not a surprise anyway. There have been at least two efforts to
>create an AFP Renderer for FOP. I believe there's even a third, private
>one.
>
>  
>
>>>>The purpose of this e-mail is to firstly inform you of this activity
>>>>in the hope to avoid any duplication of work in case you or someone
>>>>else you are aware off has similar plans.
>>>>
>>>>Secondly, should the port be successful, we possibly would like to add
>>>>the AFP renderer into the main code base in the Apache FOP repository.
>>>>For us to be able to do so we would need your consent or more
>>>>specifically you (and any other significant contributors to the
>>>>SourceForge AFP Renderer) would need to officially donate the code to
>>>>the Apache Foundation. May be you could give this some thought and
>>>>advise us if such a course of action would be acceptable to you and
>>>>your co-contributors on the project.
>>>>        
>>>>
>>It was always our intention for the AFP Renderer to become part of the
>>core FOP distribution. Here's my original blog entry on the subject:
>>
>>  http://www.exubero.com/blog/20040924_AFP_Renderer.html
>>    
>>
>
>That's very good to hear.
>
>  
>
>>Pete and I have already assigned copyright ownership to the Apache
>>Software Foundation. You might have noted that the copyright notice at
>>the top of all the source files and at the bottom of all the web pages
>>mentions this. This was to ensure that the migration path you are
>>suggesting is possible. Is there anything else that needs to be done to
>>"officially" transfer copyright?
>>    
>>
>
>The ASF doesn't do copyright assignments (see
>http://www.apache.org/licenses/software-grant.txt), you only give the
>same license to the ASF that the ASF gives to anyone else who likes to
>use some ASF software and agrees to the license terms. That you placed
>Apache copyrights on top of each file makes things easier. One step less
>in the process. However, the copyright statement only represents the
>copyright for the complete package (Apache FOP, for example), not for
>each single file. This may sound a little odd but there's a process
>running inside the ASF to clear up a few things about it. But since
>you've already got the right copyright header, the process gets easier.
>
>Anyway, since this is some software that was not developed by one
>developer alone we will have to follow a more strict process as
>documented under: http://incubator.apache.org/ip-clearance/index.html
>First, though, we'll have to officially get the consent from out team
>members in the FOP project to go forward with this. I don't think that
>will be a problem.
>
>What we'll certainly need are CLAs [1] on file from each person that
>contributed to the original AFP Renderer. See also the IP Clearance
>template found under the URL above.
>
>[1] http://www.apache.org/licenses/#clas
>
>  
>
>>>>Please be rest assured that this is not an attempt to take the project
>>>>away from you or to exclude you from further activity. Quite the
>>>>opposite. The Apache FOP project is keen to get as many people
>>>>involved especially using the new code base. Should you be interested
>>>>in taking the lead in this porting activity or in contributing to it
>>>>please let us know.
>>>>        
>>>>
>>As mentioned above, we are both happy that the AFP Renderer should
>>become part of core FOP.
>>
>>Personally, I would be interested in helping, but I don't have the in
>>depth knowledge of either AFP or XSL-FO that Pete does, and my time is
>>also limited. But I can attempt a certain amount. Is there a developer
>>guide on the new FOP architecture? Migration instructions or the like?
>>    
>>
>
>Only end-user documentation on the migration. But as I said, the
>renderer architecture hasn't changed much. You'll find your way easily
>enough.
>
>What I'm currently unsure about is the process to allow you write access
>to the FOP repository. New committers have to be voted in, which is
>normally done after they contributed over a longer period of time. Given
>that you contribute a whole subsystem for FOP might make you and Pete eligible
>for committership. But I think we first have to check what the XML
>Graphics PMC thinks about that. Otherwise, you'll simply have to
>contribute by sending patches but Manuel's example shows that it's
>perfectly possible to get someone in very quickly if he is a valuable
>addition to the project. Your reduced resources might make this a little
>more difficult. But we'll see what the others say and anyway, nobody
>ever gets forgotten about what he's contributed to a project.
>
>  
>
>>>>I have copied this e-mail to Jeremias Maerki who is the chair of the
>>>>Apache XMLGraphics Project Management Committee under whose
>>>>jurisdiction FOP falls. This is to keep him informed as the Apache
>>>>Foundation is taking licencing issues very serious to make sure all
>>>>parties are protected in the long run.
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>I have been checking the status periodically but wasn't aware of the
>>>alpha release, good to know it is progressing.
>>>
>>>I have no objection to you porting the code, and am happy to provide
>>>any assistance that you may require. I was the original developer
>>>however since moving the project to SourceForge I have received some
>>>very useful assistance from Joe Schmezter in creating the web pages,
>>>build scripts and bug fixing.
>>>
>>>I am also very keen to incorporate the renderer with official FOP
>>>build, so no problem donating the code - consider it done.
>>>
>>>In order to use the renderer it is necessary to have some AFP fonts. I
>>>managed to persuade a company to donate a very limited font set so
>>>that users could test the renderer - we will need to contact them to
>>>make sure that they are still happy (I'd assume they would be as it
>>>provides some free advertising and potentially gives them some sales
>>>potential for commercial fonts).
>>>      
>>>
>>I would think that the bulk of FOP users would have no interest whatsoever
>>in having AFP Fonts as part of the install. For these people, the AFP
>>fonts are wasted space in the download. However, having the AFP fonts in
>>the distrubtion really lowers the bar for getting new users up and running
>>on the AFP renderer, so I think that there needs to be some sort of way to
>>demonstrate that the renderer works out of the box.
>>
>>Currently, the Terrapin fonts we distribute make up about 600KB. Perhaps
>>this could be part of an optional install? Or possibly we could package up
>>two FOP builds - one with fonts, one without.
>>    
>>
>
>The problem I see is with these fonts. Terrapin seems to only provide a
>non-production license. That makes it incompatible with Apache licensing
>policy. We might do something similar as with the hyphenation patterns
>and leave the font package in the SourceForge project downloadable from
>there. That's unfortunate, but I don't see a way around this with this
>restriction. What we can do is provide links to Terrapin so people know
>where to get fonts from.
>
>  
>
>>Now, back to administrivia...
>>
>>Manual, how would you like to progress your porting activities? If you
>>like, we can give you commit access to the AFP Renderer CVS repository,
>>and you can commit your work on a branch there. Alternatively, do you want
>>to keep the port in the FOP repository?
>>    
>>
>
>I would suggest Manuel to take the offer about CVS access. I'd create a
>branch from the current code where Manuel could add his changes to make
>the renderer compatible with the new code. This preserves the old
>renderer which is compatible with FOP 0.20.5. From there we can tar up
>the sources once we've got a "go" to add the AFP Renderer to the FOP
>codebase. We'll then do a review and go through the checklist. In the
>meantime, you can handle the CLA submissions. 
>
>Looking forward to bringing AFP into FOP!
>
>Cheers,
>Jeremias Maerki
>
>
>  
>