My version is a bit old (Notepad++ 4.1.2, downloaded 12 Jul 2007, I can't know the date it was released). But I see that the many complaints about the current version (Notepad++ 4.7.5, release date unknown) are not slowing down.
So, anyone would know which is the best version to use for mainstream usage? I mean, no need for very advanced features, but paramount need for reliable operation: dialogs must never be ambiguous and never induce ordinary people in error, basic features must work perfectly and never give unexpected results.
An example: I often open an HTML file and all its CSS files. Doing (for instance) «Ctrl+F "Combats à l'arme lourde au coeur de N'Djamena"», when there are no instance, N++ returns "Can't find the word":
- this is false (the wanted item was a phrase, not a word)
- this is imprecise (Notepad would say «Cannot find "Idriss Deby est toujours retranché"»)
- if I hit "F3" instead of "Ctrl+F", Notepad++ thus fails to warn me in any way that it is searching for a *different* string. Hence if I have 12 files open in Notepad++, hitting "F3" in each will return "Can't find the word" despite the string I am searching for is actually present in several of the open files.
I think fixing such "little" things is much more urgent and important than adding another layer of bells and whistles - with all the attached risks of slowing, errors and misleadings.
Versailles, Sun 3 Feb 2008 15:49:20 +0100
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> - this is false (the wanted item was a phrase, not a word)
I suppose one must be stupid to find this behavior wrong.
> I think fixing such "little" things is much more urgent and important than adding
> another layer of bells and whistles - with all the attached risks of slowing, errors
> and misleadings.
Yes, we all want things to be fixed or added first that we use or like the most.
I guess you better start looking for an editor that doesn't cause this kind of frustration to you.
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v4.7.5 should be stabler than its anterior versions, otherwise I wouldn't do such release.
For the performance issue, you can use "notepad++ -noPlugin" under command line to improve it.
> I think fixing such "little" things is much more urgent and important
> than adding another layer of bells and whistles - with all the attached
> risks of slowing, errors and misleadings.
As far as these "little" things don't bother me, as a vonlonteer to maintain this project, I prefer to do something more interesting to me.
However all fixed bugs are welcome. If you do benefice from Notepad++ community, you can at least fix the bugs that bother you for it in return.
Don
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I was willing to NOT believe the ones saying that the hands owning the great Notepad++ were now blinded by self-sufficiency. Unfortunately the unbelievable replies I got above confirm that Notepad++ team have got even more arrogant and close-minded than Microsoft itself.
Everyone normal (which apparently excludes Notepad++, staff and friends) undestands that:
- when N++ finds no occurrence of my example search target, it should NOT return « Can't find the word" (even corrected with "phrase"), but « Can't find "Combats à l'arme lourde au coeur de N'Djamena" »
(or any abbreviation of it, like « Can't find "Combats à l'arme..." »);
- there are plenty programs and drivers where all faithful users know which past version is the best when you seek features, or performance, or stability, or else. Trying to ridicule the one who asked doesn't show great spirit in the team.
- anyone can understand that you haven't the time to do al you would in developing the program, replying questions, or else. This is not a reason to waste your time in agressing new visitors hence potentially wasting time in starting lengthy quibbles.
Of course I can't take for honest a "reply" this unfriendly (« v4.7.5 should be stabler... I prefer to do something more interesting to me »), so I just keep my old Notepad++ (Jul 2007) and won't spend more time in Notepad++, e.g. I won't try another N++ version until I at the same time need it, and have the time to do the tests entirely by myself and without reporting anything here.
In short, Notepad++ people should remember popular wisdom: trying to show other's stupidity too often results in demonstrating your own.
Now I am sorry for disturbing Notepad++ with issues that are obviously stranger to them (making life easier to others) and will try to not do it again. Meanwhile, please feel free to add all the layers of negativity you seem to like.
Versailles, Mon 11 Feb 2008 21:40:00 +0100
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WOW, This is a free program and Michel Merlin Totally wigged out over a trivial search glitch! I have had a small search glitch myself once in awhile, but it's not bad enough to obsess over a different version that's "perfect" or even insult the developers! hey If you want perfect you can pay your life savings to a team to fail at that for you, while I personally will stick with the "so called" more arrogant than Microsoft Notepad++( That's ironic considering this program is free and Microsoft will start on your soul if you run out of money!!!!
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> Unfortunately the unbelievable replies I got above confirm
> that Notepad++ team have got even more arrogant and close-minded than Microsoft itself.
The license of Microsoft doesn't allow you to use there software freely, does it?
No time for such discussion, so I just borrow some phrase from Curl FAQ (http://curl.haxx.se/docs/faq.html):
* If you want someone else to make all the work while you wait for us to
implement it for you, that is not a very friendly attitude. We spend a
considerable time already on maintaining and developing curl. In order to
get more out of us, you should consider trading in some of your time and
efforts in return.
* If you write the code, chances are bigger that it will get into curl
faster.
Don
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> so I just keep my old Notepad++ (Jul 2007) and won't spend more time in Notepad...
Aiks, that hurts!!! Are you trying to disappoint us? As you can imagine, we don't really care. In fact, this is some kind of intelligence showing: not spending anymore time talking negatively yourself.
So CONGRATULATIONS! Be happy and tell everyone we are worse than Microsoft. That's the best free publicity one can get.
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I have created, developed, maintained, by myself alone, for 3 decades, a couple of large applications or autonomic modules (structural analysis, numerical analysis, modeling, high speed infrastructure layout), entire from redefining the math (e.g. entire rethinking and rewriting of the calculation of the Fresnel integrals, creating an entirely new and much improved quality way of automatic 2D-meshing) to entire creation of new data base systems, file systems and graphical interfaces, to writing the documentations, to writing by myself the labels on the medias. Doing so I worked with a lot of developers and I know well which kinds are productive, modest, servable, open to others (and particularly their users), reliable, in one word EFFICIENT, and which are not.
The little you showed of yourselves made me decide as stated above: I continue to use and appreciate Notepad++ as it is, but I instantly dropped any hope of any fruitful exchange with the team currently owning it or of any *real* fix or improvement to the product or its marketing or pricing.
Versailles, Tue 12 Feb 2008 14:47:25 +0100
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If you have developed you can maybe try to solve the issues you are coming across!?!?
if you solve the issues and post the changed source code into this forum you contribute to the software in stead of complaining about software created during the free time of the programmer(s)!
If I had knowledge of C++ I had downloaded the source code and tried to implement a print preview function witch i want in the software but because i don't know C++ I have to wait until somebody (donho or somebody else) implements it.
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Let's not turn this thread into a flamewar. I think what's happened here is a couple of posts that sound unintentionally condescending.
Michel:
You have a couple of legitimate issues with Notepad++, but they're minor to most people, and it's even debatable whether there's anything wrong in the first place. It sounds like you're saying because these two things don't work exactly the way you would like them to, then Notepad++ is no longer "reliable" and Don should drop everything he's doing to fix them. I'm sure you didn't mean it this way, but obviously some others took it as a demand rather than a request.
Don:
When you say "I prefer to do something more interesting to me" most of us understand that you're working hard and don't have time to address every little request that people have, but it could also be misinterpreted as arrogantly telling the original poster that his opinions aren't valid.
So now we have Michel on the defensive and other forum members jumping in on Don's side to fend off what they think is an attack on Notepad++. There's no need for this. I'm sure Michel isn't another DoGooder.
Let's start over again from neutral ground, okay? Because the original post brings up a couple of valid questions that are worth discussing:
1) Should the Find dialog display the word if it can't find it?
2) Should there be a warning if you use F3 to search multiple files? For that matter, how do you decide in general when there should be a warning message?
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On the list of releases: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=95717&package_id=102072
I point the time each release lasted before being replaced with the next. The ones that lasted the most may be the most stable (sorry for having no better criterium, but I lack time for testing multiple versions or for sterile discussions):
npp 4.8.2 bin Notes (2008-03-07 08:35) (20 days so far)
npp 4.8.1 bin Notes (2008-03-02 15:19) 5 days
npp 4.7.5 bin Notes (2008-01-14 11:29) 48 days «==
npp 4.7.3 bin Notes (2008-01-06 16:20) 8 days
npp 4.7.2 bin Notes (2008-01-02 16:20) 4 days
npp 4.7.1 bin Notes (2008-01-01 16:19) 1 day
npp 4.6 bin Notes (2007-11-17 17:04) 45 days «==
npp 4.5 bin Notes (2007-10-25 15:41) 23 days
npp 4.4 bin Notes (2007-10-14 11:51) 11 days
npp 4.3 bin Notes (2007-09-23 14:37) 21 days
npp 4.2.2 bin Notes (2007-08-14 15:14) 40 days
npp 4.1.2 bin Notes (2007-05-20 16:41) 86 days «==
npp 4.1.1 bin Notes (2007-05-13 15:19) 7 days
npp 4.1 bin Notes (2007-05-01 13:17) 12 days
npp 4.0.2 bin Notes (2007-02-11 14:14) 79 days «==
npp 4.0.1 bin Notes (2007-02-03 11:31) 8 days
npp 4.0 bin Notes (2007-01-20 15:58) 14 days
npp 3.9 bin Notes (2006-10-02 15:04) 102 days «===
npp 3.8 bin Notes (2006-07-22 07:34) 74 days
npp 3.7 bin Notes (2006-06-16 15:58) 36 days
npp 3.6 bin Notes (2006-05-13 14:38) 34 days
npp 3.5 bin Notes (2006-03-02 03:26) 72 days «==
npp 3.4 bin Notes (2005-12-24 07:03) 40 days
npp 3.3 bin Notes (2005-11-12 05:55) 42 days
npp 3.2 bin Notes (2005-09-03 10:09) 70 days
npp 3.1 bin Notes (2005-07-14 09:16) 51 days
npp 3.0 bin Notes (2005-05-31 11:59) 44 days
npp 2.9 bin Notes (2005-04-02 11:44) 59 days
npp 2.8 bin Notes (2005-02-26 16:09) 35 days
npp 2.7 bin Notes (2005-01-21 10:50) 36 days
npp 2.6 bin Notes (2004-11-29 14:11) 53 days
npp 2.4 bin Notes (2004-09-25 15:00) 65 days
npp 2.3 bin Notes (2004-07-30 15:00) 57 days
npp 2.2 bin Notes (2004-07-01 15:00) 29 days
npp 2.1 bin Notes (2004-05-07 15:00) 55 days
npp 2.0 bin Notes (2004-04-21 15:00) 16 days
npp 1.9 bin Notes (2004-04-04 15:00) 17 days
npp 1.8 bin Notes (2004-03-12 15:00) 23 days
npp 1.7 bin Notes (2004-03-06 15:00) 6 days
npp 1.6 bin Notes (2004-01-31 15:00) 35 days
npp 1.5 bin Notes (2004-01-17 15:00) 14 days
npp 1.4 bin Notes (2004-01-10 15:00) 7 days
npp 1.3 bin Notes (2004-01-02 15:00) 8 days
npp 1.2 bin Notes (2003-12-25 15:00) 8 days
npp 1.1 bin Notes (2003-12-13 15:00) 12 days
npp 1.0 bin Notes (2003-11-24 15:00) 19 days
Versailles, Thu 27 Mar 2008 11:36:10 +0100
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I've stuck with version 4.6 as I've had no issues with it. Although 4.7.5 has been around a while it did introduce new bugs that were not in 4.6. I'm waiting until Don and crew get a chance to put together a new stable release after 4.8.2.
Bob
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Sorry on 2008-03-27 11:36 I wrote "stable", of course (as clear in the context) I meant "RELIABLE", as I had written in my initial post; thx to the ones who did understand.
Other examples of unreliability (that BTW are few and small for such a powerful program with such small development resources):
- when you have a dozen files open in N++, <Ctrl>S will save the one that has the focus... excepted that, in some circumstances that I didn't clearly identified, your file does NOT get updated in its original place, while N++ issues no message at all, so you RELY on N++ for having saved your file; I can't find if N++ did save something, and what, and where. Such uncertainty is of course a big blow to actual reliability: you can't RELY on it.
- when you click the "-" sign at left of a <DIV> tag, then cut or drag or copy the line, this most often does take exactly the whole DIV (which can be 200-line long); but sometimes, due to the </DIV> closing tag being in the middle of a line, the cut is NOT *exactly* what you expect, which can have devastating effects if you confidently RELY on it. Again, an annoying blow to RELIABILITY.
Given the dates I reported (and while waiting for a more significant criterion), and the 2 kind reports above ("Nobody 2008-03-27 19:52" and "LMS_RampagE 2008-03-27 21:12", with my warm thanks to both), I think v4.6 can be kept so far for the most reliable version today.
Of course, as clear for anyone who actually read the thread (my apologies for recalling the obvious...), this is for the circumstances I stated ("no need for very advanced features, but paramount need for reliable operation"); of course heavy N++ users know better and will usually prefer the most recent release, or even a beta.
Versailles, Sat 19 Apr 2008 01:28:15 +0200
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> when you have a dozen files open in N++, <Ctrl>S will save the one that has the focus... excepted that,
> in some circumstances that I didn't clearly identified, your file does NOT get updated in its original place,
> while N++ issues no message at all, so you RELY on N++ for having saved your file
Hmm, it's a critical bug then.
Please let me know when you have the instructions to reproduce it, I'll fix it.
Don
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My current version is Notepad++ 5.3.1. I don't want the newer versions for now (5.4.3, 5.4.4 seem to have too many problems not resolved yet).
I installed 5.3.1 by running the file directly, without downloading. Unfortunately I need today to reinstall it (to try add "NppAutoIndent"). But the site has been changed, and now the http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=95717&package_id=102072 page I linked above (Thu 27 Mar 2008 10:36:10 GMT), doesn't link any more the old versions.
Anyone can tell me where I can get NP++ 5.3.1? TIA,
Versailles, Thu 09 Jul 2009 16:03:10 +0200
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Sorry i didn't reply to "Don HO" 2008-04-19 02:41.
In facts it appears "Ctrl+S" saves the file *only if it has changed*.
This is IMO an error, because users (as me) expect Ctrl+S to save *anyway*. Making things happen NOT AS EXPECTED is always a possible source of problems, like time losses, data losses, errors; particularly when dealing with *saving files*.
In addition it adds an unnecessary complication, which also is a *sure* source of *future* bugs or failures (as I have seen in decades of working in development teams).
Versailles, Thu 09 Jul 2009 16:10:00 +0200
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> In facts it appears "Ctrl+S" saves the file *only if it has changed*.
>
> This is IMO an error, because users (as me) expect Ctrl+S to save *anyway*. Making things
> happen NOT AS EXPECTED is always a possible source of problems, like time losses, data
> losses, errors; particularly when dealing with *saving files*.
My vision could be subjective : "save document" action should be triggered IF AND ONLY IF the document is modified. After all, 2 behaviours could be available in ideaTorrent for the voting.
Don
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SourceForge hosting changed, and they never asked us afaik. You can find all releases on http://sourceforge.net/projects/notepad-plus/files/ It probably works now. The new UI seems to have ha reliability issues.
About saving: I'm just wondering what the benefits of saving an unmodified file are. I expect any application to be smart enough to not waste time saving unchanged material. Which could actually cause a mess if saving to a closed network connection, or to a compressed file opened as a folder.
Could you elaborate? And which erors or data losses could result from not changing an unchanged document???
CChris
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I'd say That would be a to broad ranged question wouldn't you. It depends on how user friendly someone would want it to be. it's a law of natural physics that the more complex something (anything in existence even Computer software) is the more fragile and the more susceptible it becomes to it's surroundings. the more user friendly to more complex and so on and so forth. So were is the trade off worth it.
NOW TIME FOR A NOTE TO THE DEVELOPERS! I want to THANK the developers for this program. I have been through many (at least a Dozen or two) so called "Syntax" Editing/Editor Programs and this one is by far the Best that i have Used and the only one I have ever kept or even made sure I had made a backup somewhere in case of a format or data loss! This program is Very user friendly and Powerful, two properties you don't find very often together in software! So thank you very very very much Notepad++ team for making this Powerful developing tool for us and thank you again for making it Available to the public for free!!!!!!!!!
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Thx to "christian cuvier" and "Don HO" for their recent inputs (2009-07-10 13:03 and 2009-07-09 14:53 GMT).
1) You write « "save document" action should be triggered IF AND ONLY IF the document is modified ».
This is OK for the action *by the program* (i.e. by the programmer): the programmer should NOT violate the user's will or expectation, so he should NOT "trigger" (a perfectly appropriate word, which implies automatically, blindly) a Save or anything else, unless in perfect compliance with the users will. *The user* is on the scene, he is the owner, if he does "Ctrl+S", then he wants to save; the program must just obey and stay silent. In case you (the program or programmer) think he may have done it by error, then just open a dialog "Are you sure you want to Save?", but don't VIOLATE the user's will; and if you do violate, then at least don't add another layer of offense by making it SILENTLY.
In addition, obeying a "Ctrl+S" command "IF AND ONLY IF the document is modified", is more complicated than obeying *anyway*. Then, in addition to violating user's will, it adds complication hence risk (and in facts, *assurance*) of errors later.
In short, there is NO REASON, the document being changed or not, to violate user's will when he wants to save. Sorry for being forced to elaborate on the obvious...
2) BTW, this https://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?thread_id=1929727&forum_id=331753 page is now rendered awfully in IE6. It renders correctly in Safari 4.0.2. I guess a BACKGROUND REPEAT X is now executed by error in IE6. Probably still another occurrence of "complication induces errors". Complicated sites are forced either to hacks and special CSS files to handle IE6, or to drop IE6 support. They should instead code efficiently, which oppositely to blind guru stances, does NOT cause problems in IE6
3) The posts on this page are shuffled in UNCHRONOLOGICAL order, which makes hard to follow the thread. Sorry if I missed something or someone.
4) BTW, thx to "Dustin Smith" 2009-07-12 08:23, I agree totally and warmly (please anyone don't draw wrong conclusion from my being direct and open when I spend more time on things that need IMO to be fixed or improved, than on thanking for all the very good already existing)
5) BTW2, to "Dustin Smith" 2009-07-12 08:35 (Oh! I just discover it's the same author! unbelievable...): the little search issue I anecdotally addressed was just an example to my main purpose; it should not have made you "Totally wigged out" (not my words!). In addition, should you test before writing, you would have noticed that Notepad++ team did take this little issue seriously and did correct it (still another instance where I had no idea or time or opportunity to thank them as they deserve).
Versailles, Wed 15 Jul 2009 16:12:25 +0200
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> In short, there is NO REASON, the document being changed or not,
> to violate user's will when he wants to save. Sorry for being forced to elaborate on the obvious...
Sorry Don, I didn't want to displease you. May be I was awkward or too long, so I retry:
- In about all programs, "Ctrl+S" (or equivalent) actually saves the document, *be it changed or not*; so this is what users are expecting.
- Notepad++ is doing something different from what the user (customer) is expecting. Such discrepancies are a major cause of problems, misunderstandings between user, program, programmer, or other issues, big or small.
- Whence my suggestion:
--- either make NPPP behave like other programs, and save *anyway*
--- or, when you (the program) is about to do something unexpected, then first ask the user, here by a dialog "The document is unchanged. Are you sure you want to save it?"
Now this is just a suggestion, just on a little point; please feel free to just ignore it if you don't like it.
Versailles, Wed 15 Jul 2009 23:41:15 +0200
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My version is a bit old (Notepad++ 4.1.2, downloaded 12 Jul 2007, I can't know the date it was released). But I see that the many complaints about the current version (Notepad++ 4.7.5, release date unknown) are not slowing down.
So, anyone would know which is the best version to use for mainstream usage? I mean, no need for very advanced features, but paramount need for reliable operation: dialogs must never be ambiguous and never induce ordinary people in error, basic features must work perfectly and never give unexpected results.
An example: I often open an HTML file and all its CSS files. Doing (for instance) «Ctrl+F "Combats à l'arme lourde au coeur de N'Djamena"», when there are no instance, N++ returns "Can't find the word":
- this is false (the wanted item was a phrase, not a word)
- this is imprecise (Notepad would say «Cannot find "Idriss Deby est toujours retranché"»)
- if I hit "F3" instead of "Ctrl+F", Notepad++ thus fails to warn me in any way that it is searching for a *different* string. Hence if I have 12 files open in Notepad++, hitting "F3" in each will return "Can't find the word" despite the string I am searching for is actually present in several of the open files.
I think fixing such "little" things is much more urgent and important than adding another layer of bells and whistles - with all the attached risks of slowing, errors and misleadings.
Versailles, Sun 3 Feb 2008 15:49:20 +0100
> - this is false (the wanted item was a phrase, not a word)
I suppose one must be stupid to find this behavior wrong.
> I think fixing such "little" things is much more urgent and important than adding
> another layer of bells and whistles - with all the attached risks of slowing, errors
> and misleadings.
Yes, we all want things to be fixed or added first that we use or like the most.
I guess you better start looking for an editor that doesn't cause this kind of frustration to you.
v4.7.5 should be stabler than its anterior versions, otherwise I wouldn't do such release.
For the performance issue, you can use "notepad++ -noPlugin" under command line to improve it.
> I think fixing such "little" things is much more urgent and important
> than adding another layer of bells and whistles - with all the attached
> risks of slowing, errors and misleadings.
As far as these "little" things don't bother me, as a vonlonteer to maintain this project, I prefer to do something more interesting to me.
However all fixed bugs are welcome. If you do benefice from Notepad++ community, you can at least fix the bugs that bother you for it in return.
Don
I was willing to NOT believe the ones saying that the hands owning the great Notepad++ were now blinded by self-sufficiency. Unfortunately the unbelievable replies I got above confirm that Notepad++ team have got even more arrogant and close-minded than Microsoft itself.
Everyone normal (which apparently excludes Notepad++, staff and friends) undestands that:
- when N++ finds no occurrence of my example search target, it should NOT return « Can't find the word" (even corrected with "phrase"), but « Can't find "Combats à l'arme lourde au coeur de N'Djamena" »
(or any abbreviation of it, like « Can't find "Combats à l'arme..." »);
- there are plenty programs and drivers where all faithful users know which past version is the best when you seek features, or performance, or stability, or else. Trying to ridicule the one who asked doesn't show great spirit in the team.
- anyone can understand that you haven't the time to do al you would in developing the program, replying questions, or else. This is not a reason to waste your time in agressing new visitors hence potentially wasting time in starting lengthy quibbles.
Of course I can't take for honest a "reply" this unfriendly (« v4.7.5 should be stabler... I prefer to do something more interesting to me »), so I just keep my old Notepad++ (Jul 2007) and won't spend more time in Notepad++, e.g. I won't try another N++ version until I at the same time need it, and have the time to do the tests entirely by myself and without reporting anything here.
In short, Notepad++ people should remember popular wisdom: trying to show other's stupidity too often results in demonstrating your own.
Now I am sorry for disturbing Notepad++ with issues that are obviously stranger to them (making life easier to others) and will try to not do it again. Meanwhile, please feel free to add all the layers of negativity you seem to like.
Versailles, Mon 11 Feb 2008 21:40:00 +0100
WOW, This is a free program and Michel Merlin Totally wigged out over a trivial search glitch! I have had a small search glitch myself once in awhile, but it's not bad enough to obsess over a different version that's "perfect" or even insult the developers! hey If you want perfect you can pay your life savings to a team to fail at that for you, while I personally will stick with the "so called" more arrogant than Microsoft Notepad++( That's ironic considering this program is free and Microsoft will start on your soul if you run out of money!!!!
> Unfortunately the unbelievable replies I got above confirm
> that Notepad++ team have got even more arrogant and close-minded than Microsoft itself.
The license of Microsoft doesn't allow you to use there software freely, does it?
No time for such discussion, so I just borrow some phrase from Curl FAQ (http://curl.haxx.se/docs/faq.html):
* If you want someone else to make all the work while you wait for us to
implement it for you, that is not a very friendly attitude. We spend a
considerable time already on maintaining and developing curl. In order to
get more out of us, you should consider trading in some of your time and
efforts in return.
* If you write the code, chances are bigger that it will get into curl
faster.
Don
So, you are disappointed. Now what?
> so I just keep my old Notepad++ (Jul 2007) and won't spend more time in Notepad...
Aiks, that hurts!!! Are you trying to disappoint us? As you can imagine, we don't really care. In fact, this is some kind of intelligence showing: not spending anymore time talking negatively yourself.
So CONGRATULATIONS! Be happy and tell everyone we are worse than Microsoft. That's the best free publicity one can get.
I have created, developed, maintained, by myself alone, for 3 decades, a couple of large applications or autonomic modules (structural analysis, numerical analysis, modeling, high speed infrastructure layout), entire from redefining the math (e.g. entire rethinking and rewriting of the calculation of the Fresnel integrals, creating an entirely new and much improved quality way of automatic 2D-meshing) to entire creation of new data base systems, file systems and graphical interfaces, to writing the documentations, to writing by myself the labels on the medias. Doing so I worked with a lot of developers and I know well which kinds are productive, modest, servable, open to others (and particularly their users), reliable, in one word EFFICIENT, and which are not.
The little you showed of yourselves made me decide as stated above: I continue to use and appreciate Notepad++ as it is, but I instantly dropped any hope of any fruitful exchange with the team currently owning it or of any *real* fix or improvement to the product or its marketing or pricing.
Versailles, Tue 12 Feb 2008 14:47:25 +0100
If you have developed you can maybe try to solve the issues you are coming across!?!?
if you solve the issues and post the changed source code into this forum you contribute to the software in stead of complaining about software created during the free time of the programmer(s)!
If I had knowledge of C++ I had downloaded the source code and tried to implement a print preview function witch i want in the software but because i don't know C++ I have to wait until somebody (donho or somebody else) implements it.
So what is your point? You don't have to keep mentioning that you understand that we don't care about your opinions.
Hey, are you another DoGooder?
Let's not turn this thread into a flamewar. I think what's happened here is a couple of posts that sound unintentionally condescending.
Michel:
You have a couple of legitimate issues with Notepad++, but they're minor to most people, and it's even debatable whether there's anything wrong in the first place. It sounds like you're saying because these two things don't work exactly the way you would like them to, then Notepad++ is no longer "reliable" and Don should drop everything he's doing to fix them. I'm sure you didn't mean it this way, but obviously some others took it as a demand rather than a request.
Don:
When you say "I prefer to do something more interesting to me" most of us understand that you're working hard and don't have time to address every little request that people have, but it could also be misinterpreted as arrogantly telling the original poster that his opinions aren't valid.
So now we have Michel on the defensive and other forum members jumping in on Don's side to fend off what they think is an attack on Notepad++. There's no need for this. I'm sure Michel isn't another DoGooder.
Let's start over again from neutral ground, okay? Because the original post brings up a couple of valid questions that are worth discussing:
1) Should the Find dialog display the word if it can't find it?
2) Should there be a warning if you use F3 to search multiple files? For that matter, how do you decide in general when there should be a warning message?
On the list of releases:
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=95717&package_id=102072
I point the time each release lasted before being replaced with the next. The ones that lasted the most may be the most stable (sorry for having no better criterium, but I lack time for testing multiple versions or for sterile discussions):
npp 4.8.2 bin Notes (2008-03-07 08:35) (20 days so far)
npp 4.8.1 bin Notes (2008-03-02 15:19) 5 days
npp 4.7.5 bin Notes (2008-01-14 11:29) 48 days «==
npp 4.7.3 bin Notes (2008-01-06 16:20) 8 days
npp 4.7.2 bin Notes (2008-01-02 16:20) 4 days
npp 4.7.1 bin Notes (2008-01-01 16:19) 1 day
npp 4.6 bin Notes (2007-11-17 17:04) 45 days «==
npp 4.5 bin Notes (2007-10-25 15:41) 23 days
npp 4.4 bin Notes (2007-10-14 11:51) 11 days
npp 4.3 bin Notes (2007-09-23 14:37) 21 days
npp 4.2.2 bin Notes (2007-08-14 15:14) 40 days
npp 4.1.2 bin Notes (2007-05-20 16:41) 86 days «==
npp 4.1.1 bin Notes (2007-05-13 15:19) 7 days
npp 4.1 bin Notes (2007-05-01 13:17) 12 days
npp 4.0.2 bin Notes (2007-02-11 14:14) 79 days «==
npp 4.0.1 bin Notes (2007-02-03 11:31) 8 days
npp 4.0 bin Notes (2007-01-20 15:58) 14 days
npp 3.9 bin Notes (2006-10-02 15:04) 102 days «===
npp 3.8 bin Notes (2006-07-22 07:34) 74 days
npp 3.7 bin Notes (2006-06-16 15:58) 36 days
npp 3.6 bin Notes (2006-05-13 14:38) 34 days
npp 3.5 bin Notes (2006-03-02 03:26) 72 days «==
npp 3.4 bin Notes (2005-12-24 07:03) 40 days
npp 3.3 bin Notes (2005-11-12 05:55) 42 days
npp 3.2 bin Notes (2005-09-03 10:09) 70 days
npp 3.1 bin Notes (2005-07-14 09:16) 51 days
npp 3.0 bin Notes (2005-05-31 11:59) 44 days
npp 2.9 bin Notes (2005-04-02 11:44) 59 days
npp 2.8 bin Notes (2005-02-26 16:09) 35 days
npp 2.7 bin Notes (2005-01-21 10:50) 36 days
npp 2.6 bin Notes (2004-11-29 14:11) 53 days
npp 2.4 bin Notes (2004-09-25 15:00) 65 days
npp 2.3 bin Notes (2004-07-30 15:00) 57 days
npp 2.2 bin Notes (2004-07-01 15:00) 29 days
npp 2.1 bin Notes (2004-05-07 15:00) 55 days
npp 2.0 bin Notes (2004-04-21 15:00) 16 days
npp 1.9 bin Notes (2004-04-04 15:00) 17 days
npp 1.8 bin Notes (2004-03-12 15:00) 23 days
npp 1.7 bin Notes (2004-03-06 15:00) 6 days
npp 1.6 bin Notes (2004-01-31 15:00) 35 days
npp 1.5 bin Notes (2004-01-17 15:00) 14 days
npp 1.4 bin Notes (2004-01-10 15:00) 7 days
npp 1.3 bin Notes (2004-01-02 15:00) 8 days
npp 1.2 bin Notes (2003-12-25 15:00) 8 days
npp 1.1 bin Notes (2003-12-13 15:00) 12 days
npp 1.0 bin Notes (2003-11-24 15:00) 19 days
Versailles, Thu 27 Mar 2008 11:36:10 +0100
I've stuck with version 4.6 as I've had no issues with it. Although 4.7.5 has been around a while it did introduce new bugs that were not in 4.6. I'm waiting until Don and crew get a chance to put together a new stable release after 4.8.2.
Bob
So do I :). It seems that npp 4.6 is one of the most stable releases...
I can tell you, for me _A L L_ versions where stable for me enough, since v3.5,
because i am no web- nor programming man. :))
Sorry on 2008-03-27 11:36 I wrote "stable", of course (as clear in the context) I meant "RELIABLE", as I had written in my initial post; thx to the ones who did understand.
Other examples of unreliability (that BTW are few and small for such a powerful program with such small development resources):
- when you have a dozen files open in N++, <Ctrl>S will save the one that has the focus... excepted that, in some circumstances that I didn't clearly identified, your file does NOT get updated in its original place, while N++ issues no message at all, so you RELY on N++ for having saved your file; I can't find if N++ did save something, and what, and where. Such uncertainty is of course a big blow to actual reliability: you can't RELY on it.
- when you click the "-" sign at left of a <DIV> tag, then cut or drag or copy the line, this most often does take exactly the whole DIV (which can be 200-line long); but sometimes, due to the </DIV> closing tag being in the middle of a line, the cut is NOT *exactly* what you expect, which can have devastating effects if you confidently RELY on it. Again, an annoying blow to RELIABILITY.
Given the dates I reported (and while waiting for a more significant criterion), and the 2 kind reports above ("Nobody 2008-03-27 19:52" and "LMS_RampagE 2008-03-27 21:12", with my warm thanks to both), I think v4.6 can be kept so far for the most reliable version today.
Of course, as clear for anyone who actually read the thread (my apologies for recalling the obvious...), this is for the circumstances I stated ("no need for very advanced features, but paramount need for reliable operation"); of course heavy N++ users know better and will usually prefer the most recent release, or even a beta.
Versailles, Sat 19 Apr 2008 01:28:15 +0200
> when you have a dozen files open in N++, <Ctrl>S will save the one that has the focus... excepted that,
> in some circumstances that I didn't clearly identified, your file does NOT get updated in its original place,
> while N++ issues no message at all, so you RELY on N++ for having saved your file
Hmm, it's a critical bug then.
Please let me know when you have the instructions to reproduce it, I'll fix it.
Don
My current version is Notepad++ 5.3.1. I don't want the newer versions for now (5.4.3, 5.4.4 seem to have too many problems not resolved yet).
I installed 5.3.1 by running the file directly, without downloading. Unfortunately I need today to reinstall it (to try add "NppAutoIndent"). But the site has been changed, and now the http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=95717&package_id=102072 page I linked above (Thu 27 Mar 2008 10:36:10 GMT), doesn't link any more the old versions.
Anyone can tell me where I can get NP++ 5.3.1? TIA,
Versailles, Thu 09 Jul 2009 16:03:10 +0200
Sorry i didn't reply to "Don HO" 2008-04-19 02:41.
In facts it appears "Ctrl+S" saves the file *only if it has changed*.
This is IMO an error, because users (as me) expect Ctrl+S to save *anyway*. Making things happen NOT AS EXPECTED is always a possible source of problems, like time losses, data losses, errors; particularly when dealing with *saving files*.
In addition it adds an unnecessary complication, which also is a *sure* source of *future* bugs or failures (as I have seen in decades of working in development teams).
Versailles, Thu 09 Jul 2009 16:10:00 +0200
> In facts it appears "Ctrl+S" saves the file *only if it has changed*.
>
> This is IMO an error, because users (as me) expect Ctrl+S to save *anyway*. Making things
> happen NOT AS EXPECTED is always a possible source of problems, like time losses, data
> losses, errors; particularly when dealing with *saving files*.
My vision could be subjective : "save document" action should be triggered IF AND ONLY IF the document is modified. After all, 2 behaviours could be available in ideaTorrent for the voting.
Don
SourceForge hosting changed, and they never asked us afaik. You can find all releases on http://sourceforge.net/projects/notepad-plus/files/ It probably works now. The new UI seems to have ha reliability issues.
About saving: I'm just wondering what the benefits of saving an unmodified file are. I expect any application to be smart enough to not waste time saving unchanged material. Which could actually cause a mess if saving to a closed network connection, or to a compressed file opened as a folder.
Could you elaborate? And which erors or data losses could result from not changing an unchanged document???
CChris
I'd say That would be a to broad ranged question wouldn't you. It depends on how user friendly someone would want it to be. it's a law of natural physics that the more complex something (anything in existence even Computer software) is the more fragile and the more susceptible it becomes to it's surroundings. the more user friendly to more complex and so on and so forth. So were is the trade off worth it.
NOW TIME FOR A NOTE TO THE DEVELOPERS! I want to THANK the developers for this program. I have been through many (at least a Dozen or two) so called "Syntax" Editing/Editor Programs and this one is by far the Best that i have Used and the only one I have ever kept or even made sure I had made a backup somewhere in case of a format or data loss! This program is Very user friendly and Powerful, two properties you don't find very often together in software! So thank you very very very much Notepad++ team for making this Powerful developing tool for us and thank you again for making it Available to the public for free!!!!!!!!!
Thx to "christian cuvier" and "Don HO" for their recent inputs (2009-07-10 13:03 and 2009-07-09 14:53 GMT).
1) You write « "save document" action should be triggered IF AND ONLY IF the document is modified ».
This is OK for the action *by the program* (i.e. by the programmer): the programmer should NOT violate the user's will or expectation, so he should NOT "trigger" (a perfectly appropriate word, which implies automatically, blindly) a Save or anything else, unless in perfect compliance with the users will. *The user* is on the scene, he is the owner, if he does "Ctrl+S", then he wants to save; the program must just obey and stay silent. In case you (the program or programmer) think he may have done it by error, then just open a dialog "Are you sure you want to Save?", but don't VIOLATE the user's will; and if you do violate, then at least don't add another layer of offense by making it SILENTLY.
In addition, obeying a "Ctrl+S" command "IF AND ONLY IF the document is modified", is more complicated than obeying *anyway*. Then, in addition to violating user's will, it adds complication hence risk (and in facts, *assurance*) of errors later.
In short, there is NO REASON, the document being changed or not, to violate user's will when he wants to save. Sorry for being forced to elaborate on the obvious...
2) BTW, this https://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?thread_id=1929727&forum_id=331753 page is now rendered awfully in IE6. It renders correctly in Safari 4.0.2. I guess a BACKGROUND REPEAT X is now executed by error in IE6. Probably still another occurrence of "complication induces errors". Complicated sites are forced either to hacks and special CSS files to handle IE6, or to drop IE6 support. They should instead code efficiently, which oppositely to blind guru stances, does NOT cause problems in IE6
3) The posts on this page are shuffled in UNCHRONOLOGICAL order, which makes hard to follow the thread. Sorry if I missed something or someone.
4) BTW, thx to "Dustin Smith" 2009-07-12 08:23, I agree totally and warmly (please anyone don't draw wrong conclusion from my being direct and open when I spend more time on things that need IMO to be fixed or improved, than on thanking for all the very good already existing)
5) BTW2, to "Dustin Smith" 2009-07-12 08:35 (Oh! I just discover it's the same author! unbelievable...): the little search issue I anecdotally addressed was just an example to my main purpose; it should not have made you "Totally wigged out" (not my words!). In addition, should you test before writing, you would have noticed that Notepad++ team did take this little issue seriously and did correct it (still another instance where I had no idea or time or opportunity to thank them as they deserve).
Versailles, Wed 15 Jul 2009 16:12:25 +0200
> In short, there is NO REASON, the document being changed or not,
> to violate user's will when he wants to save. Sorry for being forced to elaborate on the obvious...
No need to cry out loud, post your opinion on ideatorrent then let the other users express them-selves :
http://sourceforge.net/apps/ideatorrent/notepad-plus/
Don
Sorry Don, I didn't want to displease you. May be I was awkward or too long, so I retry:
- In about all programs, "Ctrl+S" (or equivalent) actually saves the document, *be it changed or not*; so this is what users are expecting.
- Notepad++ is doing something different from what the user (customer) is expecting. Such discrepancies are a major cause of problems, misunderstandings between user, program, programmer, or other issues, big or small.
- Whence my suggestion:
--- either make NPPP behave like other programs, and save *anyway*
--- or, when you (the program) is about to do something unexpected, then first ask the user, here by a dialog "The document is unchanged. Are you sure you want to save it?"
Now this is just a suggestion, just on a little point; please feel free to just ignore it if you don't like it.
Versailles, Wed 15 Jul 2009 23:41:15 +0200