After I’ve got ADempiere 340s to run I’m checking our requirements to implement ADempiere in our company. Now I’m intending to customize Material Management / Production:
1) We are a small company dedicated to buy and sell row material. We purchase our row material in some product groups and in each group in several products / purchase grades per kg. In our warehouse we store each purchase grades in a locator. In an aging process which has several steps the stored purchase grades in a locator are loosing about 5 % of its weight per step.
Is it possible in ADempiere to calculate an inventory loss per locator?
2) After the aging process we have a sorting process where purchase grades are classified in several products / export grades.
That means: 100% input (purchase grade) from one locator =>
10% to 15% output of export grade 1
10% to 20% output of export grade 2
15% to 30% output of export grade 3 etc.
There is no fixed output / percentage of each export grade out of a locator so it is not possible to implement a BOM with a fixed quantity / relationship of input and output products.
Is it possible in ADempiere to setup a connection (e.g. BOM) between input and output products without a fixed quantity?
3) Export grades / products are packed in packages of about 100 kg. But the exact weight can vary from 95 to 105 kg. Each package has a unique number and has to appear on a pick list with his number and specific weight. I wanted to setup a product with serial number to handle a unique product after packing. In this case again the question about the BOM with no fixed quantity output because of the variation of kg per package. Price per package depends on quantity of kg of export grade inside.
Maybe somebody can give me a hint what would be the best way to do it.
Thanks in advance for any suggestion.
Best regards,
Hawky
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>1) We are a small company dedicated to buy and sell row material. We purchase our row material in some product >groups and in each group in several products / purchase grades per kg. In our warehouse we store each purchase >grades in a locator. In an aging process which has several steps the stored purchase grades in a locator are >loosing about 5 % of its weight per step.
>Is it possible in ADempiere to calculate an inventory loss per locator?
I'm not sure how to asnwer so i would like ot ask you a question.
What should be the accounting consequences from the aging of the products?
In Adempiere we have Inventory count, which can be used to represent miss of products from Warehouse, but this document has account consequences.
>3) Export grades / products are packed in packages of about 100 kg. But the exact weight can vary from 95 to 105 kg. >Each package has a unique number and has to appear on a pick list with his number and specific weight. I wanted to >setup a product with serial number to handle a unique product after packing. In this case again the question about the >BOM with no fixed quantity output because of the variation of kg per package. Price per package depends on quantity of >kg of export grade inside.
There was similar requirement and before.
My personal opinion is that you need two units of measure independ of each other. So you can order and sell in packages and at the same time track weight of each package and bill according to the weight.
As far as i know Adempiere still do ont have this, but it is possible to be added.
Kind regards,
Trifon
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Hi Trifon,
Thank you for taking the time to analyse my case.
>I'm not sure how to asnwer so i would like ot ask you a question.
What should be the accounting consequences from the aging of the products?
In Adempiere we have Inventory count, which can be used to represent miss of
products from Warehouse, but this document has account consequences.
Finally the shrinkage of the purchase grades during the aging process are production cost. So it would be nice to book the loss on an expense account.
>There was similar requirement and before.
My personal opinion is that you need two units of measure independ of each other.
So you can order and sell in packages and at the same time track weight of each
package and bill according to the weight.
As far as i know Adempiere still do ont have this, but it is possible to be
added.
When I understand it correctly I need two units of measure in my case “package” and “kg”. It would be perfect to handle a package but still working with “kg” as sales unit. But to set up the package as a unit of measure I have to put the corresponding conversion in unit of measure in my case “kg” of export grades for example 100 kg. But as I said our packages vary from 95 to 105 kg.
Is there a way to get the individual weight of a package into the unit of measure?
Therefore I thought a solution would be to set up the package as a product and not as a unit of measure. The package would be produced out of a quantity of kg in a BOM. But here the question is if I can produce packages in a BOM with different weights?
Thanks again for your answer and best regards,
Hawky
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We have seen a system with a similar sort of requirement. It used the Production process to record the manufacturing process and log losses arising from the manufacturing process. The system was modified so that each Production record's document number was defaulted into the Lot Number field of the manufactured product. The Production lines were modified so that the 'Create Lines' process selected materials from as many Locators as was needed to satisfy the qty required.
It was possible to insert additional lines into the production lines so you could have a standard BOM which produced (say) 100kgs of finished goods from 105kgs of various raw materials but you could modify the input qty and the output qty to match exactly what you needed or achieved (including using the finished good as an input into the production process so 100kgs of finished product could be made from 80kgs raw materials and 20kg of the finished good from an earlier batch).
It would have been possible to have inserted additional lines in the BOM for the extra lower quality finished goods and then vary the qty of each finished good in the production lines to the actuals before completing the production. The Production and its accounting had to be _heavily_ modified before the above would work properly. The system ran with Standard Costing. The production accounting summed all the inputs qty*costs and all the outputs qty*costs and posted the difference to a production variance account created for the purpose. The same 'nominal' qty issue existed with an order for 100kgs causing a shipment of between 95 and 105 kgs depending on the result of the manufacturing... everything was done in a single UOM of kgs and it did not seem to cause problems.
regards..
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Hi Adaxa,
Thank you very much for your explanation.
The process which you described is more or less what we need. The BOM structure where you can modify input and output is exactly the requirement for row / natural products. It is also very interesting as you say the possibility to use finished products as an input again for e.g. reclassification of a finished product. And to put extra lines in BOM for e.g. scrap which you can sell as a product again. But it seems that with the ADempiere standard it is not achievable.
Best regards,
Hawky
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"But it seems that with the ADempiere standard it is not achievable." Not totally correct...
Using Adempiere 340 you can do the following
Create a product Green-Quality1 with UOM kilograms (set as BOM = Y)
Create a product Green-Quality2 with UOM kilograms
Create a product Green-Quality3 with UOM kilograms
Create a product Red with UOM kilograms
Create a product Blue with UOM kilograms
Add the BOM lines for Green-Quality1
Create a BOM Line Green-Quality2 - 0 kgs
Create a BOM Line Green-Quality3 - 0 kgs
Create a Bom Line product Red - 0.55kgs
Create a Bom Line product Red - 0.55kgs
Our plan is we need 55kgs of red and 55kgs of blue to make 100kgs Green Quality 1 - ie 10% wastage
Now create a Production Plan for 100kgs of Green-Quality 1 and 'create the lines' etc..
The Production Lines will show
Green Q1 +100
Green Q2 0
Green Q3 0
Red -55
Blue -55
Now edit the qty of the Greens to the actual output and complete / post.
It all works as you would expect except the accounting values created are wrong due a bug in the code. You can fix that yourself or get someone to do it for you. Since you will be manually editing the quantities get an error check put in the code to ensure that the sum of the outputs in KGS is the same as the sum of the inputs in kgs +/- 10%.
regards..
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In our case it is more like this:
Input product IPQ1
Input product IPQ2 etc.
Output product OPQ1
Output product OPQ2
Output product OPQ2 etc.
Each input product contains a percentage of an output product.
A production plan would be for IPQ1:
IPQ1 -> 1.000 kg
OPQ1 <- 200 kg
OPQ2 <- 300 kg
OPQ3 <- 400 kg
(10% wastage)
And for IPQ2 like this:
IPQ2 -> 1.000 kg
OPQ1 <- 100 kg
OPQ2 <- 400 kg
OPQ3 <- 400 kg
(10% wastage)
The reason for the bug in the accounting is because of the difference between input quantity and output quantity right? But the possibility of changing / editing quantities of BOM lines is already standard in Adempiere isn’t it?
Thanks and best regards,
Hawky
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Hi Trifon,
that was also my next idea ;o)
And after production I can prepare an inventory loss of the produced quantity of wastage product.
Thank you and best regards,
Hawky
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
From memory, the accounting posting fails if there is more than 1 output product, if the output product is also an input product, if error balancing is not switched on, the output cost is set as the sum of the input costs which is incorrect if you are using standard costing.. etc.. BUT I have not tested in any recent Adempiere releases so please test for yourself. The comments above relate only to the OLD Production as used in 340.
regards..
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Hi ADempieres,
After I’ve got ADempiere 340s to run I’m checking our requirements to implement ADempiere in our company. Now I’m intending to customize Material Management / Production:
1) We are a small company dedicated to buy and sell row material. We purchase our row material in some product groups and in each group in several products / purchase grades per kg. In our warehouse we store each purchase grades in a locator. In an aging process which has several steps the stored purchase grades in a locator are loosing about 5 % of its weight per step.
Is it possible in ADempiere to calculate an inventory loss per locator?
2) After the aging process we have a sorting process where purchase grades are classified in several products / export grades.
That means: 100% input (purchase grade) from one locator =>
10% to 15% output of export grade 1
10% to 20% output of export grade 2
15% to 30% output of export grade 3 etc.
There is no fixed output / percentage of each export grade out of a locator so it is not possible to implement a BOM with a fixed quantity / relationship of input and output products.
Is it possible in ADempiere to setup a connection (e.g. BOM) between input and output products without a fixed quantity?
3) Export grades / products are packed in packages of about 100 kg. But the exact weight can vary from 95 to 105 kg. Each package has a unique number and has to appear on a pick list with his number and specific weight. I wanted to setup a product with serial number to handle a unique product after packing. In this case again the question about the BOM with no fixed quantity output because of the variation of kg per package. Price per package depends on quantity of kg of export grade inside.
Maybe somebody can give me a hint what would be the best way to do it.
Thanks in advance for any suggestion.
Best regards,
Hawky
Hello Hawky,
first of all Welcome ot Adempiere!
>1) We are a small company dedicated to buy and sell row material. We purchase our row material in some product >groups and in each group in several products / purchase grades per kg. In our warehouse we store each purchase >grades in a locator. In an aging process which has several steps the stored purchase grades in a locator are >loosing about 5 % of its weight per step.
>Is it possible in ADempiere to calculate an inventory loss per locator?
I'm not sure how to asnwer so i would like ot ask you a question.
What should be the accounting consequences from the aging of the products?
In Adempiere we have Inventory count, which can be used to represent miss of products from Warehouse, but this document has account consequences.
>3) Export grades / products are packed in packages of about 100 kg. But the exact weight can vary from 95 to 105 kg. >Each package has a unique number and has to appear on a pick list with his number and specific weight. I wanted to >setup a product with serial number to handle a unique product after packing. In this case again the question about the >BOM with no fixed quantity output because of the variation of kg per package. Price per package depends on quantity of >kg of export grade inside.
There was similar requirement and before.
My personal opinion is that you need two units of measure independ of each other. So you can order and sell in packages and at the same time track weight of each package and bill according to the weight.
As far as i know Adempiere still do ont have this, but it is possible to be added.
Kind regards,
Trifon
Hi Trifon,
Thank you for taking the time to analyse my case.
>I'm not sure how to asnwer so i would like ot ask you a question.
What should be the accounting consequences from the aging of the products?
In Adempiere we have Inventory count, which can be used to represent miss of
products from Warehouse, but this document has account consequences.
Finally the shrinkage of the purchase grades during the aging process are production cost. So it would be nice to book the loss on an expense account.
>There was similar requirement and before.
My personal opinion is that you need two units of measure independ of each other.
So you can order and sell in packages and at the same time track weight of each
package and bill according to the weight.
As far as i know Adempiere still do ont have this, but it is possible to be
added.
When I understand it correctly I need two units of measure in my case “package” and “kg”. It would be perfect to handle a package but still working with “kg” as sales unit. But to set up the package as a unit of measure I have to put the corresponding conversion in unit of measure in my case “kg” of export grades for example 100 kg. But as I said our packages vary from 95 to 105 kg.
Is there a way to get the individual weight of a package into the unit of measure?
Therefore I thought a solution would be to set up the package as a product and not as a unit of measure. The package would be produced out of a quantity of kg in a BOM. But here the question is if I can produce packages in a BOM with different weights?
Thanks again for your answer and best regards,
Hawky
We have seen a system with a similar sort of requirement. It used the Production process to record the manufacturing process and log losses arising from the manufacturing process. The system was modified so that each Production record's document number was defaulted into the Lot Number field of the manufactured product. The Production lines were modified so that the 'Create Lines' process selected materials from as many Locators as was needed to satisfy the qty required.
It was possible to insert additional lines into the production lines so you could have a standard BOM which produced (say) 100kgs of finished goods from 105kgs of various raw materials but you could modify the input qty and the output qty to match exactly what you needed or achieved (including using the finished good as an input into the production process so 100kgs of finished product could be made from 80kgs raw materials and 20kg of the finished good from an earlier batch).
It would have been possible to have inserted additional lines in the BOM for the extra lower quality finished goods and then vary the qty of each finished good in the production lines to the actuals before completing the production. The Production and its accounting had to be _heavily_ modified before the above would work properly. The system ran with Standard Costing. The production accounting summed all the inputs qty*costs and all the outputs qty*costs and posted the difference to a production variance account created for the purpose. The same 'nominal' qty issue existed with an order for 100kgs causing a shipment of between 95 and 105 kgs depending on the result of the manufacturing... everything was done in a single UOM of kgs and it did not seem to cause problems.
regards..
Hi Adaxa,
Thank you very much for your explanation.
The process which you described is more or less what we need. The BOM structure where you can modify input and output is exactly the requirement for row / natural products. It is also very interesting as you say the possibility to use finished products as an input again for e.g. reclassification of a finished product. And to put extra lines in BOM for e.g. scrap which you can sell as a product again. But it seems that with the ADempiere standard it is not achievable.
Best regards,
Hawky
"But it seems that with the ADempiere standard it is not achievable." Not totally correct...
Using Adempiere 340 you can do the following
Create a product Green-Quality1 with UOM kilograms (set as BOM = Y)
Create a product Green-Quality2 with UOM kilograms
Create a product Green-Quality3 with UOM kilograms
Create a product Red with UOM kilograms
Create a product Blue with UOM kilograms
Add the BOM lines for Green-Quality1
Create a BOM Line Green-Quality2 - 0 kgs
Create a BOM Line Green-Quality3 - 0 kgs
Create a Bom Line product Red - 0.55kgs
Create a Bom Line product Red - 0.55kgs
Our plan is we need 55kgs of red and 55kgs of blue to make 100kgs Green Quality 1 - ie 10% wastage
Now create a Production Plan for 100kgs of Green-Quality 1 and 'create the lines' etc..
The Production Lines will show
Green Q1 +100
Green Q2 0
Green Q3 0
Red -55
Blue -55
Now edit the qty of the Greens to the actual output and complete / post.
It all works as you would expect except the accounting values created are wrong due a bug in the code. You can fix that yourself or get someone to do it for you. Since you will be manually editing the quantities get an error check put in the code to ensure that the sum of the outputs in KGS is the same as the sum of the inputs in kgs +/- 10%.
regards..
Hi Adaxa,
Thanks for your reply.
In our case it is more like this:
Input product IPQ1
Input product IPQ2 etc.
Output product OPQ1
Output product OPQ2
Output product OPQ2 etc.
Each input product contains a percentage of an output product.
A production plan would be for IPQ1:
IPQ1 -> 1.000 kg
OPQ1 <- 200 kg
OPQ2 <- 300 kg
OPQ3 <- 400 kg
(10% wastage)
And for IPQ2 like this:
IPQ2 -> 1.000 kg
OPQ1 <- 100 kg
OPQ2 <- 400 kg
OPQ3 <- 400 kg
(10% wastage)
The reason for the bug in the accounting is because of the difference between input quantity and output quantity right? But the possibility of changing / editing quantities of BOM lines is already standard in Adempiere isn’t it?
Thanks and best regards,
Hawky
Hi Hawki,
>A production plan would be for IPQ1:
>IPQ1 -> 1.000 kg
>OPQ1 <- 200 kg
>OPQ2 <- 300 kg
>OPQ3 <- 400 kg
>(10% wastage)
It looks that you can write wastage as another product:
IPQ1 -> 1.000 kg
OPQ1 <- 200 kg
OPQ2 <- 300 kg
OPQ3 <- 400 kg
WST. <- 100 kg (10% wastage)
If you can change number qty. of BOM and you are very close to a solution.
Kind regards,
Trifon
Hi Trifon,
that was also my next idea ;o)
And after production I can prepare an inventory loss of the produced quantity of wastage product.
Thank you and best regards,
Hawky
From memory, the accounting posting fails if there is more than 1 output product, if the output product is also an input product, if error balancing is not switched on, the output cost is set as the sum of the input costs which is incorrect if you are using standard costing.. etc.. BUT I have not tested in any recent Adempiere releases so please test for yourself. The comments above relate only to the OLD Production as used in 340.
regards..