the initial post was not targeted at the n++ devs only, I was hoping to perhaps raise some ideas and maybe a discussion (even for people who wouldn't think about searching a forum for old requests, or looking for this same functionality) - then the devs would perhaps find this a more qualified request...
so please if you don't care about his at all ignore this thread, but thanks for raising the number of replies anyway
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good question, maybe because it feels a little weird to add a post to a long dead and forgotten thread ?! maybe because I think that my request is pretty easy to implement and probably isn't incorporated just because the n++ author doesn't get the needed feedback? where does this thread's rabbit hole lead?
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> good question, maybe because it feels a little weird to add a post
> to a long dead and forgotten thread ?!
Yeah, just start the war all over again, because you aren't satisfied with the settlement!
That's exactly why you shouldn't start a new thread about the same thing.
It has been discussed before. If you really want to discuss it again, be sure to bring the "dead" thread back to life, so anything that has been said about it before, can be read just as well. It will be clear to many then, that perhaps it isn't even worth discussing again. Probably we won't have to read another load of messages, then.
And you show you did some research before simply posting your request.
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Unfortunately, although NPP is a great bit of software, these forums are largely populated by sarcastic people posting anonymously. I have no idea which, if any of them are developers, but certainly the impression given is that the NPP devs are pretty intolerant of any requests for help, or suggestions for improvements.
There is a tendency for any new post to be met with a cry of 'search the forums', and in my experience this is rarely an action that will yield an answer. What you will get, as you have found, is a bunch of people _asking_ the same question but no useful responses. A bunch of flames, perhaps. Some more 'search the forums' responses. Or maybe just radio silence. Rarely an actual answer.
I really hope this is something that can be addressed constructively (though I expect this post will simply trigger one of the standard sarcastic responses) as these forums are currently one of the most unwelcoming 'support forums' I have come across. There has been more than one post here recently that has started with someone coming here with a genuine support question and basically ended up with them being driven to use a different piece of software altogether - purely down to the unfriendly nature of the responses.
As one of the front-doors of the software it really lets down what, as I have already said, is a fantastic editor and a great tool.
- Mark
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> but certainly the impression given is that the NPP devs are pretty intolerant
> of any requests for help, or suggestions for improvements.
As the main developer and project manager of this open source project,
I try to get some funs from this project, but it doesn't mean that I don't consider the users' needs - if the feature request is reasonable.
Since I don't benefit (financially) from this project, I have a daytime job like everybody - it means that I manage this project in the evening after my work, or the weekend.
With my limit leisure time, I do my best to develop Notepad++'s new feature, fix bugs, process the FR tracker and bug trackers, remove the spams from the forums (there're a ton of spam!), keep Notepad++ web site update, and try to answer the post of forums.
Are Notepad++ devs intolerant of requests for help, or suggestions for improvements?
When the first time I got the technical support from Microsoft for my daytime's job, I was impressed.
But when I think about the licenses my company paid to Microsoft, the answer is obviously.
So I consider that I full fill my role to maintain the forums and keep them spam free.
I'll answer the questions that I feel need to answer or I want to answer. For the rest, I let the other volunteers.
> Some more 'search the forums' responses. Or maybe just radio silence. Rarely an actual answer.
"search the forums" responses may be abusive recently, but it's true that users comes to the forums to get the quick answer without searching before. The good example is Notepad++ unicode problem (with Cyrillic) due to Hex Editor plugin.
I don't bother to answer such "quick" question, but I do understand it could be fastidious for the other volunteers.
> I really hope this is something that can be addressed constructively
> (though I expect this post will simply trigger one of the standard sarcastic responses)
> as these forums are currently one of the most unwelcoming 'support forums' I have come across.
You can do something to make things better if you want to - the wiki page is accessible for everybody so you can complete the FAQ or some basic document or be one of volunteers to make this unwelcoming support forum more comfortable (or even submit the new feature patch).
Contributing your time in this community in return, if you do benefit from this community (including the software Notepad++). There'll be more chance that things move on in this way instead that you expect someone do something for you.
Don
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>> but certainly the impression given is that the NPP devs are pretty intolerant
>> of any requests for help, or suggestions for improvements.
>
> As the main developer and project manager of this open source project,
> I try to get some funs from this project, but it doesn't mean that I don't
> consider the users' needs - if the feature request is reasonable.
Hi Don - I'm sorry if you took it the wrong way, but that point wasn't aimed at you. I wasn't saying that the problem lay in the developer's attitude. The problem is rather that the people who respond negatively to the support requests (particularly from new users) tend to speak authoritatively and anonymously and so no-one has any idea whether it is a dev speaking, or just an ordinary member of the community (or even just a troll). The impression is that it is the developers speaking even when it is not.
[SNIP
> So I consider that I full fill my role to maintain the forums and keep them spam free.
For which you're doing a good job, as far as I can see - though I don't know why Sourceforge doesn't get better spam filtering set up (or the option to require people to login before posting).
> I'll answer the questions that I feel need to answer or I want to answer.
> For the rest, I let the other volunteers.
And that, I think, is the problem. It seems like some of the 'other volunteers' are responding very negatively to postings, and this does not show the product in a good light. I have been involved in many similar communities, and certainly the impression I get after having been on this mailing list for about 10 months is that this is the rudest community I have ever been a part of, which is a shame. I'm not sure about the best way of dealing with this, except to request a bit more civility and perhaps asking people to login rather than to post anonymously.
[SNIP]
>> I really hope this is something that can be addressed constructively
>> (though I expect this post will simply trigger one of the standard sarcastic responses)
>> as these forums are currently one of the most unwelcoming 'support forums' I have come across.
>
> You can do something to make things better if you want to - the wiki page is accessible for
> everybody so you can complete the FAQ or some basic document or be one of volunteers to make
> this unwelcoming support forum more comfortable (or even submit the new feature patch).
Ah - there is a wiki! Cool. Now that would be the way forward. However, it isn't mentioned anywhere on the NP++ website, and I have never seen it mentioned on this list! It took me a while to find it, but you're right - there is a link tucked away at the top of the sourceforge project page.
Therefore, my suggestions to volunteers who provide help on this forum:
* It is better to not reply than to reply in an unfriendly and unhelpful way (as Don has said himself before now).
* It is even better to point the poster to a useful resource - and this should be the wiki!
For example if someone asks why the default font is Comic Sans (which happens every month or two), don't flame, don't berate, don't complain. Just reply with a single link:
If sensible and memorable page names are used then it will be as easy to point someone to the right place as to tell them to use the search. And of course, if the info is not on the wiki, add it before giving a link so the next time the question comes up it is already answered in a central location (because, let's be honest, the Sourceforge forums ARE pretty awful!).
Don - the one thing you could do to make this a lot easier is to make the wiki a lot more prominent. This is the first time I've known about it's existence and I've been quietly involved in this forum for quite a while!
Anyway - that's the end of my rant :-) Thanks for all the good work. NP++ is a joy to use (despite the occasional grumble...)
- Mark
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>>> but certainly the impression given is that the NPP devs are pretty intolerant
>>> of any requests for help, or suggestions for improvements.
>>
>> As the main developer and project manager of this open source project,
>> I try to get some funs from this project, but it doesn't mean that I don't
>> consider the users' needs - if the feature request is reasonable.
>
> Hi Don - I'm sorry if you took it the wrong way, but that point wasn't aimed at you.
> I wasn't saying that the problem lay in the developer's attitude.
What I saw is this phrase :
"NPP devs are pretty intolerant of any requests for help, or suggestions for improvements."
That makes me take this way.
> The problem is rather that the people who respond negatively to the support requests
> (particularly from new users) tend to speak authoritatively and anonymously and so no-one has
> any idea whether it is a dev speaking, or just an ordinary member of the community.
I ensure you that I (and the Notepad++ members) don't bother to answer if I don't want to.
I could be rude sometimes, but only to the rude posts.
> And that, I think, is the problem. It seems like some of the 'other volunteers' are responding very negatively
> to postings, and this does not show the product in a good light.
> I have been involved in many similar communities, and certainly the impression
> I get after having been on this mailing list for about 10 months is that this is
> the rudest community I have ever been a part of, which is a shame.
> I'm not sure about the best way of dealing with this,
> except to request a bit more civility and perhaps asking people to login rather than to post anonymously.
I have noticed that, and I tried to correct this unfriendly attitude (by removing the rude and unconstructive answer).
Sourceforge's forum system does not allow to banner specific user, otherwise I'll apply it.
What I can do is remove all such unfriendly answer, and if necessary, banner the specific user manually if such post comes from the same user.
> Therefore, my suggestions to volunteers who provide help on this forum:
> * It is better to not reply than to reply in an unfriendly and unhelpful way (as Don has said himself before now).
> * It is even better to point the poster to a useful resource - and this should be the wiki!
Agree.
> Don - the one thing you could do to make this a lot easier is to make the wiki a lot more prominent.
> This is the first time I've known about it's existence and I've been quietly involved in this forum for quite a while!
The wiki page is pointed from Notepad++ web page FAQ->General. I'll make it accessible from the Links page.
Thank you for your suggestions.
Don
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mark you do have a point (thanks)! finally someone who understands the real trouble behind feeling grateful for a free software project but suggesting new features at the same time. I personally like n++ and it is very fit for all needs, it's just that I feel few minor changes would dramatically improve my user experience and I feel that the software author (donho) would like such feedback and perhaps just missed the previous thread by working on something useful, relaxing, living, ... and not having time to check the forums daily. that's why I decided to start this thread anew, hoping to catch the eye of someone who cares.
donho thanks for this amazing piece of software and thanks for finding time to check the forums
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>> "
RE: simple but very important features missin (New)
By: Don HO (donho) - 2008-05-06 23:02
I'll consider it.
Don
" <<
This message is no guarantee that you will get what you want.
My guess, again, is that this a polite way of Don's to make you stop keeping asking for an answer. You have really pushed him to reply in order for you to know that he reads these forums. Do you really have to?
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> trouble ... suggesting new features at the same time
"simple but very important features missing"
Some people think they have some superb suggestion and say it is very important when they ask for it. I keep seeing the same things asked again. It would be nice if one searched the forums first before asking something that is already there. It keeps new threads from being created, which also keeps the number of find results small when someone else does search for the something first. It also makes you think and read first before just putting another request on the forum. Some people think the number of threads or messages about a subject does count for the importance of it. Perhaps they can imagine that simply starting another thread about the same subject isn't really encouraging to keep up with and reading all the "new" and "important" requests. Perhaps they can imagine that these new threads will be ignored and they get no answer (again). If there are already a number of threads about the same request or issue and there has never come an answer to it, why ask for it again? If you want to bring something back into focus, just do so by replying to a thread that already deals with the request or issue.
> I personally like n++ and it is very fit for all needs,
> it's just that I feel few minor changes would dramatically improve my user experience
What are you saying?
Do you like the product?
Or do you mean to say that this simply feature is indeed so very important because right now actually your experience is dramatic?
> I feel that the software author (donho) would like such feedback and perhaps just
> missed the previous thread by working on something useful, relaxing, living, ...
> and not having time to check the forums daily
I think you just want what you desire and really have no clue at all about what the author feels. I am so smart not to pretend that I do. My guess is, however, that Don really tries to keep up with all new messages being posted. So please be so gentle not to overload his activity by asking for the same thing over and over again. Only when you have searched for similar messages, you bring them up to show how "important" this feature must be, while at the same time you yourself totally ignore that it never seemed to have been, because of the lack of any answer. Do you really expect 5 answers when 5 users independent of each other start a new thread only asking for the same thing, without even looking if it has been asked before?
> that's why I decided to start this thread anew,
> hoping to catch the eye of someone who cares.
Thinks about it. Understand exactly why you should NOT start a new thread if YOU think something is important. First, look if others think so as well, and reply to their previous posts. This avoids a lot of frustration and saves a lot of time in discussing things. Stories that already have been written do not have to be written again, over and over again.
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starting a thread with a "simple but very important features missing" title. I wished to be able to change it once I came to understand the nature of this forum. My first impression was, that posting this would make someone quickly reply that my request was built in for ages and can be found under plugins or somewhere similar. only then did I realize that my post could potentially only disturb and waste the time of many advanced users. sorry.
thanks to don for being polite (it doesn't matter that much whether he decides to build it in or not).
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> starting a thread with a "simple but very important features missing" title.
> I wished to be able to change it once I came to understand the nature of this forum.
From what you write later, your intention may have become clear. Think first: what do you want to achieve with your thread? Which kind of readers' attention do you want to attract?
> My first impression was, that posting this would make someone quickly reply that my
> request was built in for ages and can be found under plugins or somewhere similar.
1. You want a quick reply. Why, was it so urgent?
2. You wanted to hear it was already there. Don't you think you might have found the feature yourself by (first) looking in Notepad++ or the Plugins menu?
3. If you suspect that it is already there, perhaps you could think that also someone before you might have looked for it and didn't find it and asked the same question before.
> only then did I realize that my post could potentially only disturb and waste the time
> of many advanced users. sorry.
I dunno about that. But think again, what did you really want? Oh, you now say it.
> thanks to don for being polite
> (it doesn't matter that much whether he decides to build it in or not).
Oh, it really even doesn't matter. You only wanted an(y) answer from the dev!
That makes it even more surprising that there had to be a discussion about previous threads and their meaning (intended or not). It doesn't seem like an important feature to you anymore at all.
Can you imagine what these forums would be like when anyone would post a question immediately when they think of a feature they think is useful, without even looking for it in Notepad++ or in these forums first?
The result would be that when someone does search for it, he will only find a bunch of requests for it. This might lead again to a discussion about why there was never an answer...
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We talked about this issue. I re-mention that what I want to be the Npp forums.
The forums is where users get their quick answers, so they should be friendly and useful for every users, especially for the new comers.
I do agree with you that users should search in the forums before asking any question. But if they don't, just don't reply.
Regarding the feature request posts, it's up to Notepad++ team to judge if the FR is reasonable, so you don't need to answer them neither.
As the project manager, I have to remove all unfriendly and unconstructive messages from the forums. And if it's necessary, to ban specific sourceforge users.
Please consider the rules for the npp forums contributors.
I thank you for all your contributions to Notepad++ project.
Don
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I couldn't find this functionality (if it is inside please let me know)
1. File> Save a copy as...
2. File> Rename (this is not common in apps, but would be handy to rename the open file from within the editor)
but N++ is still the best editor out there!!
don thanks. I promise not to ask for new features in this manner again :) this thread lacks a lot of :)
:D
fool4uanyway - I have learned a lot about being smart, thanks.
http://sourceforge.net/forum/message.php?msg_id=4172061
sorry but I don't know how your post is going to help anyone...
I don't think asking the same question as was posted before is (also) not much help.
Perhaps you can think "oh, I could wait for half a year and get no answer, so I better not wait for it".
the initial post was not targeted at the n++ devs only, I was hoping to perhaps raise some ideas and maybe a discussion (even for people who wouldn't think about searching a forum for old requests, or looking for this same functionality) - then the devs would perhaps find this a more qualified request...
so please if you don't care about his at all ignore this thread, but thanks for raising the number of replies anyway
Why would you want to start a discussion again? Simply because you or others do not put effort into looking what is already there?
good question, maybe because it feels a little weird to add a post to a long dead and forgotten thread ?! maybe because I think that my request is pretty easy to implement and probably isn't incorporated just because the n++ author doesn't get the needed feedback? where does this thread's rabbit hole lead?
> good question, maybe because it feels a little weird to add a post
> to a long dead and forgotten thread ?!
Yeah, just start the war all over again, because you aren't satisfied with the settlement!
That's exactly why you shouldn't start a new thread about the same thing.
It has been discussed before. If you really want to discuss it again, be sure to bring the "dead" thread back to life, so anything that has been said about it before, can be read just as well. It will be clear to many then, that perhaps it isn't even worth discussing again. Probably we won't have to read another load of messages, then.
And you show you did some research before simply posting your request.
http://sourceforge.net/forum/message.php?msg_id=4328087
2 users asking for this - no negative response, no official response
http://sourceforge.net/forum/message.php?msg_id=3566190
1 user highlights the benefits - no negative response, no official response
http://sourceforge.net/forum/message.php?msg_id=3608247
3 users asking for this - no negative response, no official response
please help me find the real 'battle' thread out there
> http://sourceforge.net/forum/message.php?msg_id=4328087
> 2 users asking for this - no negative response, no official response
>
> http://sourceforge.net/forum/message.php?msg_id=3566190
> 1 user highlights the benefits - no negative response, no official response
>
> http://sourceforge.net/forum/message.php?msg_id=3608247
> 3 users asking for this - no negative response, no official response
>
> please help me find the real 'battle' thread out there
You're in it... :)
Unfortunately, although NPP is a great bit of software, these forums are largely populated by sarcastic people posting anonymously. I have no idea which, if any of them are developers, but certainly the impression given is that the NPP devs are pretty intolerant of any requests for help, or suggestions for improvements.
There is a tendency for any new post to be met with a cry of 'search the forums', and in my experience this is rarely an action that will yield an answer. What you will get, as you have found, is a bunch of people _asking_ the same question but no useful responses. A bunch of flames, perhaps. Some more 'search the forums' responses. Or maybe just radio silence. Rarely an actual answer.
I really hope this is something that can be addressed constructively (though I expect this post will simply trigger one of the standard sarcastic responses) as these forums are currently one of the most unwelcoming 'support forums' I have come across. There has been more than one post here recently that has started with someone coming here with a genuine support question and basically ended up with them being driven to use a different piece of software altogether - purely down to the unfriendly nature of the responses.
As one of the front-doors of the software it really lets down what, as I have already said, is a fantastic editor and a great tool.
- Mark
> but certainly the impression given is that the NPP devs are pretty intolerant
> of any requests for help, or suggestions for improvements.
As the main developer and project manager of this open source project,
I try to get some funs from this project, but it doesn't mean that I don't consider the users' needs - if the feature request is reasonable.
Since I don't benefit (financially) from this project, I have a daytime job like everybody - it means that I manage this project in the evening after my work, or the weekend.
With my limit leisure time, I do my best to develop Notepad++'s new feature, fix bugs, process the FR tracker and bug trackers, remove the spams from the forums (there're a ton of spam!), keep Notepad++ web site update, and try to answer the post of forums.
Are Notepad++ devs intolerant of requests for help, or suggestions for improvements?
When the first time I got the technical support from Microsoft for my daytime's job, I was impressed.
But when I think about the licenses my company paid to Microsoft, the answer is obviously.
So I consider that I full fill my role to maintain the forums and keep them spam free.
I'll answer the questions that I feel need to answer or I want to answer. For the rest, I let the other volunteers.
> Some more 'search the forums' responses. Or maybe just radio silence. Rarely an actual answer.
"search the forums" responses may be abusive recently, but it's true that users comes to the forums to get the quick answer without searching before. The good example is Notepad++ unicode problem (with Cyrillic) due to Hex Editor plugin.
I don't bother to answer such "quick" question, but I do understand it could be fastidious for the other volunteers.
> I really hope this is something that can be addressed constructively
> (though I expect this post will simply trigger one of the standard sarcastic responses)
> as these forums are currently one of the most unwelcoming 'support forums' I have come across.
You can do something to make things better if you want to - the wiki page is accessible for everybody so you can complete the FAQ or some basic document or be one of volunteers to make this unwelcoming support forum more comfortable (or even submit the new feature patch).
Contributing your time in this community in return, if you do benefit from this community (including the software Notepad++). There'll be more chance that things move on in this way instead that you expect someone do something for you.
Don
>> but certainly the impression given is that the NPP devs are pretty intolerant
>> of any requests for help, or suggestions for improvements.
>
> As the main developer and project manager of this open source project,
> I try to get some funs from this project, but it doesn't mean that I don't
> consider the users' needs - if the feature request is reasonable.
Hi Don - I'm sorry if you took it the wrong way, but that point wasn't aimed at you. I wasn't saying that the problem lay in the developer's attitude. The problem is rather that the people who respond negatively to the support requests (particularly from new users) tend to speak authoritatively and anonymously and so no-one has any idea whether it is a dev speaking, or just an ordinary member of the community (or even just a troll). The impression is that it is the developers speaking even when it is not.
[SNIP
> So I consider that I full fill my role to maintain the forums and keep them spam free.
For which you're doing a good job, as far as I can see - though I don't know why Sourceforge doesn't get better spam filtering set up (or the option to require people to login before posting).
> I'll answer the questions that I feel need to answer or I want to answer.
> For the rest, I let the other volunteers.
And that, I think, is the problem. It seems like some of the 'other volunteers' are responding very negatively to postings, and this does not show the product in a good light. I have been involved in many similar communities, and certainly the impression I get after having been on this mailing list for about 10 months is that this is the rudest community I have ever been a part of, which is a shame. I'm not sure about the best way of dealing with this, except to request a bit more civility and perhaps asking people to login rather than to post anonymously.
[SNIP]
>> I really hope this is something that can be addressed constructively
>> (though I expect this post will simply trigger one of the standard sarcastic responses)
>> as these forums are currently one of the most unwelcoming 'support forums' I have come across.
>
> You can do something to make things better if you want to - the wiki page is accessible for
> everybody so you can complete the FAQ or some basic document or be one of volunteers to make
> this unwelcoming support forum more comfortable (or even submit the new feature patch).
Ah - there is a wiki! Cool. Now that would be the way forward. However, it isn't mentioned anywhere on the NP++ website, and I have never seen it mentioned on this list! It took me a while to find it, but you're right - there is a link tucked away at the top of the sourceforge project page.
Therefore, my suggestions to volunteers who provide help on this forum:
* It is better to not reply than to reply in an unfriendly and unhelpful way (as Don has said himself before now).
* It is even better to point the poster to a useful resource - and this should be the wiki!
For example if someone asks why the default font is Comic Sans (which happens every month or two), don't flame, don't berate, don't complain. Just reply with a single link:
http://notepad-plus.wiki.sourceforge.net/FAQ
Even better, setup a new page (or a redirect) and use that:
http://notepad-plus.wiki.sourceforge.net/Comic_sans
If sensible and memorable page names are used then it will be as easy to point someone to the right place as to tell them to use the search. And of course, if the info is not on the wiki, add it before giving a link so the next time the question comes up it is already answered in a central location (because, let's be honest, the Sourceforge forums ARE pretty awful!).
Don - the one thing you could do to make this a lot easier is to make the wiki a lot more prominent. This is the first time I've known about it's existence and I've been quietly involved in this forum for quite a while!
Anyway - that's the end of my rant :-) Thanks for all the good work. NP++ is a joy to use (despite the occasional grumble...)
- Mark
>>> but certainly the impression given is that the NPP devs are pretty intolerant
>>> of any requests for help, or suggestions for improvements.
>>
>> As the main developer and project manager of this open source project,
>> I try to get some funs from this project, but it doesn't mean that I don't
>> consider the users' needs - if the feature request is reasonable.
>
> Hi Don - I'm sorry if you took it the wrong way, but that point wasn't aimed at you.
> I wasn't saying that the problem lay in the developer's attitude.
What I saw is this phrase :
"NPP devs are pretty intolerant of any requests for help, or suggestions for improvements."
That makes me take this way.
> The problem is rather that the people who respond negatively to the support requests
> (particularly from new users) tend to speak authoritatively and anonymously and so no-one has
> any idea whether it is a dev speaking, or just an ordinary member of the community.
I ensure you that I (and the Notepad++ members) don't bother to answer if I don't want to.
I could be rude sometimes, but only to the rude posts.
> And that, I think, is the problem. It seems like some of the 'other volunteers' are responding very negatively
> to postings, and this does not show the product in a good light.
> I have been involved in many similar communities, and certainly the impression
> I get after having been on this mailing list for about 10 months is that this is
> the rudest community I have ever been a part of, which is a shame.
> I'm not sure about the best way of dealing with this,
> except to request a bit more civility and perhaps asking people to login rather than to post anonymously.
I have noticed that, and I tried to correct this unfriendly attitude (by removing the rude and unconstructive answer).
Sourceforge's forum system does not allow to banner specific user, otherwise I'll apply it.
What I can do is remove all such unfriendly answer, and if necessary, banner the specific user manually if such post comes from the same user.
> Therefore, my suggestions to volunteers who provide help on this forum:
> * It is better to not reply than to reply in an unfriendly and unhelpful way (as Don has said himself before now).
> * It is even better to point the poster to a useful resource - and this should be the wiki!
Agree.
> Don - the one thing you could do to make this a lot easier is to make the wiki a lot more prominent.
> This is the first time I've known about it's existence and I've been quietly involved in this forum for quite a while!
The wiki page is pointed from Notepad++ web page FAQ->General. I'll make it accessible from the Links page.
Thank you for your suggestions.
Don
This more or less says it all.
So whay do you keep expecting that isn't there?
You could post it a thousand times and keep whining that you don't get what you want...
I'll consider it.
Don
mark you do have a point (thanks)! finally someone who understands the real trouble behind feeling grateful for a free software project but suggesting new features at the same time. I personally like n++ and it is very fit for all needs, it's just that I feel few minor changes would dramatically improve my user experience and I feel that the software author (donho) would like such feedback and perhaps just missed the previous thread by working on something useful, relaxing, living, ... and not having time to check the forums daily. that's why I decided to start this thread anew, hoping to catch the eye of someone who cares.
donho thanks for this amazing piece of software and thanks for finding time to check the forums
One more thing:
>> "
RE: simple but very important features missin (New)
By: Don HO (donho) - 2008-05-06 23:02
I'll consider it.
Don
" <<
This message is no guarantee that you will get what you want.
My guess, again, is that this a polite way of Don's to make you stop keeping asking for an answer. You have really pushed him to reply in order for you to know that he reads these forums. Do you really have to?
> trouble ... suggesting new features at the same time
"simple but very important features missing"
Some people think they have some superb suggestion and say it is very important when they ask for it. I keep seeing the same things asked again. It would be nice if one searched the forums first before asking something that is already there. It keeps new threads from being created, which also keeps the number of find results small when someone else does search for the something first. It also makes you think and read first before just putting another request on the forum. Some people think the number of threads or messages about a subject does count for the importance of it. Perhaps they can imagine that simply starting another thread about the same subject isn't really encouraging to keep up with and reading all the "new" and "important" requests. Perhaps they can imagine that these new threads will be ignored and they get no answer (again). If there are already a number of threads about the same request or issue and there has never come an answer to it, why ask for it again? If you want to bring something back into focus, just do so by replying to a thread that already deals with the request or issue.
> I personally like n++ and it is very fit for all needs,
> it's just that I feel few minor changes would dramatically improve my user experience
What are you saying?
Do you like the product?
Or do you mean to say that this simply feature is indeed so very important because right now actually your experience is dramatic?
> I feel that the software author (donho) would like such feedback and perhaps just
> missed the previous thread by working on something useful, relaxing, living, ...
> and not having time to check the forums daily
I think you just want what you desire and really have no clue at all about what the author feels. I am so smart not to pretend that I do. My guess is, however, that Don really tries to keep up with all new messages being posted. So please be so gentle not to overload his activity by asking for the same thing over and over again. Only when you have searched for similar messages, you bring them up to show how "important" this feature must be, while at the same time you yourself totally ignore that it never seemed to have been, because of the lack of any answer. Do you really expect 5 answers when 5 users independent of each other start a new thread only asking for the same thing, without even looking if it has been asked before?
> that's why I decided to start this thread anew,
> hoping to catch the eye of someone who cares.
Thinks about it. Understand exactly why you should NOT start a new thread if YOU think something is important. First, look if others think so as well, and reply to their previous posts. This avoids a lot of frustration and saves a lot of time in discussing things. Stories that already have been written do not have to be written again, over and over again.
starting a thread with a "simple but very important features missing" title. I wished to be able to change it once I came to understand the nature of this forum. My first impression was, that posting this would make someone quickly reply that my request was built in for ages and can be found under plugins or somewhere similar. only then did I realize that my post could potentially only disturb and waste the time of many advanced users. sorry.
thanks to don for being polite (it doesn't matter that much whether he decides to build it in or not).
> starting a thread with a "simple but very important features missing" title.
> I wished to be able to change it once I came to understand the nature of this forum.
From what you write later, your intention may have become clear. Think first: what do you want to achieve with your thread? Which kind of readers' attention do you want to attract?
> My first impression was, that posting this would make someone quickly reply that my
> request was built in for ages and can be found under plugins or somewhere similar.
1. You want a quick reply. Why, was it so urgent?
2. You wanted to hear it was already there. Don't you think you might have found the feature yourself by (first) looking in Notepad++ or the Plugins menu?
3. If you suspect that it is already there, perhaps you could think that also someone before you might have looked for it and didn't find it and asked the same question before.
> only then did I realize that my post could potentially only disturb and waste the time
> of many advanced users. sorry.
I dunno about that. But think again, what did you really want? Oh, you now say it.
> thanks to don for being polite
> (it doesn't matter that much whether he decides to build it in or not).
Oh, it really even doesn't matter. You only wanted an(y) answer from the dev!
That makes it even more surprising that there had to be a discussion about previous threads and their meaning (intended or not). It doesn't seem like an important feature to you anymore at all.
Can you imagine what these forums would be like when anyone would post a question immediately when they think of a feature they think is useful, without even looking for it in Notepad++ or in these forums first?
The result would be that when someone does search for it, he will only find a bunch of requests for it. This might lead again to a discussion about why there was never an answer...
Fool4UAnyway,
We talked about this issue. I re-mention that what I want to be the Npp forums.
The forums is where users get their quick answers, so they should be friendly and useful for every users, especially for the new comers.
I do agree with you that users should search in the forums before asking any question. But if they don't, just don't reply.
Regarding the feature request posts, it's up to Notepad++ team to judge if the FR is reasonable, so you don't need to answer them neither.
As the project manager, I have to remove all unfriendly and unconstructive messages from the forums. And if it's necessary, to ban specific sourceforge users.
Please consider the rules for the npp forums contributors.
I thank you for all your contributions to Notepad++ project.
Don
Leave it out, man - the guy was apologising! This is the kind of unfriendly sniping I was talking about.
- Mark
> thanks to don for being polite (it doesn't matter that much whether he decides to build it in or not).
It's not by courtesy that I said I'll consider it. fool4uanyway's answer is just his opinion but not mine.
BTW, "Save As Copy" is implemented, and it will be in the next release (available in a couple of days).
Don