At the first level, it seems obvious, We Need ADempiere Zimlets! It's just too cool.
But now the crazy... We've been looking at starting from scratch for a webUI. The most progress is with ZK, but that has had very little buy in from the community outside Posterita and Idalica. Victor has been looking at GWT, and will be investing heavily.
Zimbra works nicely, solidly, and has a powerful, useful, attractive interface. They've done a lot to build a business friendly application. Imagine the power we would gain for Adempiere if it were closely coupled with email, messaging, collaboration, and document management? Not to mention the exposure to the Zimbra user base!
The conceptual value of the proposal is clear, so now what about the technical aspects? Is there technical merit to what Zimbra has done? Is it a framework we could leverage? I'm especially hoping Trifon, Victor, Fred, and Heng Sin will weigh in on the potential, due to their Web and XML experience. Would the community support the approach and work together?
Thanks for thinking about this, IMO it's the coolest thing I've seen for a while, and if we could combine the UI/collaboration/zimlet tools with the AD.... wow
Regards,
Joel Stangeland
www.idalica.com
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>I've been evaluating Zimbra for a client with heavy need for collaboration tools. What I saw >gave me some wild ideas. Check these out:
>
>http://www.zimbra.com/demos/zimbra_salesforce.html
Very interesting!
I have researched Zimbra in the past but what i see now is very big advance.
I would really enjoy to work on such tasks.
As a first step i think that we could try to develop Adempiere Zimlet.
After that if experience is positive we could move to more tight integration and leverage Zimbra framework. I do not trust much to white papers and show cases. Only PoC could give real answers.
>But what if we leveraged the Zimbra work to build the Adempiere AjaxUI? Check out the >framework whitepaper:
>http://files.zimbra.com/website/docs/Zimbra%20AJAX%20TK%20Whitepaper.pdf
Framework uses XForms... So they have won 50 from my approval.
Will read the whitepaper to find if other 50% would be positive or negative.
Kind regards,
Trifon
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Joel,
zimbra is certainly a killer.. i watched the movies and read the whitepaper u linked. Certainly deserve more research as to the feasibility of adoption approach as i m still not clear if this is a toolset by its own discipline of CMS Portal or has a piped dev kit for apps like us too.
I just want to touch abit bout the remark that ZK is not well bought in by the community. That seems to be true but there is a qualifying context to all of this. Let me jump rite in..
Such features are very complex. Now i say so cos it takes one whole company (Posterita) doing it in sweat and tears. This leads to the condition that seems to be the case if any such large scale contribution is to be done:
a) There must be a solid development team behind it
b) They must be well financed to do it
c) They must produce right up to well written up to date HowTos (of course Zimbra type of movies will be nice, but just some door opener kinds will do, as this is what screamers cried for all the time - how to start??!!!)
Now if we compare this to other effort such as Manufacturing, Payroll, Replication we will know that they will smack into the above abc conditions. And so voila! that is where the bazaar is supposed to come in. Now after more than a year, we began to learn how to use this thin stick into this long bow and pull back to shoot that mammoth, and i think we got it right thru the way e-Evolution does it.
A) e-Evolution is a company that has sweat and tears too assuming those are human latinos sitting behind those desks churning out those Libero codes.
B) It must have the same financing challenges assuming latinos eat in same quantities as Mauritians.
C) They must have a translation problem because we cant read spanish well in other parts of the world.
Moral of the story is Victor Perez exploited the bazaar well:
a) He not only published his wares, he stand by his stall day and nite with his little bells ringing them at passers by. He got a few starting with clumsy Tim.
b) He appears in talk shows ala IRC room to really spend long hours (i noticed) lobbying for buy in support.
c) He brought out all his wares in the open without alluding to any private repository. He even wants to barge his way into trunk.
d) He made no qualms nor complains about the sweaty palms and turnover of latinos crossing the border into california.
Moral of the story is i think some ppl got it and some ppl dont. This is what i told ppl that meet me from day one about going open source. You were party to the conversation we had with posterita.
1) U have to be 100% not 99.999%
2) U have to have faith in the karma of the bazaar. What goes around comes around.
4) If u dont give it away others will (should not be even the calculated risk u take).
5) U have to give it and be done with it not even hoping for recompense
There are many many issues of software development and this is all tackled in the Cathedral and the Bazaar story. I m just extending the thesis to also cover Bazaar development (!!).
I see the same with Carlos (sorry for generalising but u have to if u wana make a point shorter than it already is), he has a very small company that helps him to produce contributions as fast as lightning. Now we see the same blitzkrieg from Germany such as Metas. This is wonderful as i began to take hold of myself in this context and now am building a company to contribute! I push all my polynesians desperados into the sea from here. They re still swimming. Soon i hope to be a major contender to e-Evolution and Metas, also QSS.
We drink the same soup. Contribute and brand yourself, makes savings, enlist more helpers, friends, sub-contributors, committers, testers, but most importantly supporters.
Its unlike the presidential campaign going on at this moment in your country. I love watching those debates. They re all so good. How the hell u guys choose between them??!!!
red1
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errata: i i meant to say it is NOT unlike the presidential campaign going on (in USA). They bring out all the stops just to get one more vote. They re all so good. Barack is too young but so are the voters. How would Hilary and her very capable supporter ex-White House occupant - Bill counter? They are. I know they are. I know Bill. I know she will win.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
>The conceptual value of the proposal is clear, so now what about the technical aspects? Is there technical merit to >what Zimbra has done? Is it a framework we could leverage? I'm especially hoping Trifon, Victor, Fred, and Heng Sin >will weigh in on the potential, due to their Web and XML experience. Would the community support the approach and work >together?
I finished my research.
AjaxTK has good features.
But i think that weak side is:
- small community base.
- few examples.
- lot of java script.
We will have to invest in internal research and education i.e increase our know-how.
I think that AjaxTk and Zimplets deserve to be researched and PoC to be developed.
Kind regards,
Trifon
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Hello All,
I've been evaluating Zimbra for a client with heavy need for collaboration tools. What I saw gave me some wild ideas. Check these out:
http://www.zimbra.com/demos/zimbra_salesforce.html
http://www.zimbra.com/demos/zimbra_zimlets.html
At the first level, it seems obvious, We Need ADempiere Zimlets! It's just too cool.
But now the crazy... We've been looking at starting from scratch for a webUI. The most progress is with ZK, but that has had very little buy in from the community outside Posterita and Idalica. Victor has been looking at GWT, and will be investing heavily.
But what if we leveraged the Zimbra work to build the Adempiere AjaxUI? Check out the framework whitepaper:
http://files.zimbra.com/website/docs/Zimbra%20AJAX%20TK%20Whitepaper.pdf
Zimbra works nicely, solidly, and has a powerful, useful, attractive interface. They've done a lot to build a business friendly application. Imagine the power we would gain for Adempiere if it were closely coupled with email, messaging, collaboration, and document management? Not to mention the exposure to the Zimbra user base!
The conceptual value of the proposal is clear, so now what about the technical aspects? Is there technical merit to what Zimbra has done? Is it a framework we could leverage? I'm especially hoping Trifon, Victor, Fred, and Heng Sin will weigh in on the potential, due to their Web and XML experience. Would the community support the approach and work together?
Thanks for thinking about this, IMO it's the coolest thing I've seen for a while, and if we could combine the UI/collaboration/zimlet tools with the AD.... wow
Regards,
Joel Stangeland
www.idalica.com
Hi Joel,
>I've been evaluating Zimbra for a client with heavy need for collaboration tools. What I saw >gave me some wild ideas. Check these out:
>
>http://www.zimbra.com/demos/zimbra_salesforce.html
Very interesting!
I have researched Zimbra in the past but what i see now is very big advance.
I would really enjoy to work on such tasks.
As a first step i think that we could try to develop Adempiere Zimlet.
After that if experience is positive we could move to more tight integration and leverage Zimbra framework. I do not trust much to white papers and show cases. Only PoC could give real answers.
>But what if we leveraged the Zimbra work to build the Adempiere AjaxUI? Check out the >framework whitepaper:
>http://files.zimbra.com/website/docs/Zimbra%20AJAX%20TK%20Whitepaper.pdf
Framework uses XForms... So they have won 50 from my approval.
Will read the whitepaper to find if other 50% would be positive or negative.
Kind regards,
Trifon
Joel,
zimbra is certainly a killer.. i watched the movies and read the whitepaper u linked. Certainly deserve more research as to the feasibility of adoption approach as i m still not clear if this is a toolset by its own discipline of CMS Portal or has a piped dev kit for apps like us too.
I just want to touch abit bout the remark that ZK is not well bought in by the community. That seems to be true but there is a qualifying context to all of this. Let me jump rite in..
Such features are very complex. Now i say so cos it takes one whole company (Posterita) doing it in sweat and tears. This leads to the condition that seems to be the case if any such large scale contribution is to be done:
a) There must be a solid development team behind it
b) They must be well financed to do it
c) They must produce right up to well written up to date HowTos (of course Zimbra type of movies will be nice, but just some door opener kinds will do, as this is what screamers cried for all the time - how to start??!!!)
Now if we compare this to other effort such as Manufacturing, Payroll, Replication we will know that they will smack into the above abc conditions. And so voila! that is where the bazaar is supposed to come in. Now after more than a year, we began to learn how to use this thin stick into this long bow and pull back to shoot that mammoth, and i think we got it right thru the way e-Evolution does it.
A) e-Evolution is a company that has sweat and tears too assuming those are human latinos sitting behind those desks churning out those Libero codes.
B) It must have the same financing challenges assuming latinos eat in same quantities as Mauritians.
C) They must have a translation problem because we cant read spanish well in other parts of the world.
Moral of the story is Victor Perez exploited the bazaar well:
a) He not only published his wares, he stand by his stall day and nite with his little bells ringing them at passers by. He got a few starting with clumsy Tim.
b) He appears in talk shows ala IRC room to really spend long hours (i noticed) lobbying for buy in support.
c) He brought out all his wares in the open without alluding to any private repository. He even wants to barge his way into trunk.
d) He made no qualms nor complains about the sweaty palms and turnover of latinos crossing the border into california.
Moral of the story is i think some ppl got it and some ppl dont. This is what i told ppl that meet me from day one about going open source. You were party to the conversation we had with posterita.
1) U have to be 100% not 99.999%
2) U have to have faith in the karma of the bazaar. What goes around comes around.
4) If u dont give it away others will (should not be even the calculated risk u take).
5) U have to give it and be done with it not even hoping for recompense
There are many many issues of software development and this is all tackled in the Cathedral and the Bazaar story. I m just extending the thesis to also cover Bazaar development (!!).
I see the same with Carlos (sorry for generalising but u have to if u wana make a point shorter than it already is), he has a very small company that helps him to produce contributions as fast as lightning. Now we see the same blitzkrieg from Germany such as Metas. This is wonderful as i began to take hold of myself in this context and now am building a company to contribute! I push all my polynesians desperados into the sea from here. They re still swimming. Soon i hope to be a major contender to e-Evolution and Metas, also QSS.
We drink the same soup. Contribute and brand yourself, makes savings, enlist more helpers, friends, sub-contributors, committers, testers, but most importantly supporters.
Its unlike the presidential campaign going on at this moment in your country. I love watching those debates. They re all so good. How the hell u guys choose between them??!!!
red1
errata: i i meant to say it is NOT unlike the presidential campaign going on (in USA). They bring out all the stops just to get one more vote. They re all so good. Barack is too young but so are the voters. How would Hilary and her very capable supporter ex-White House occupant - Bill counter? They are. I know they are. I know Bill. I know she will win.
Hi Joel,
>The conceptual value of the proposal is clear, so now what about the technical aspects? Is there technical merit to >what Zimbra has done? Is it a framework we could leverage? I'm especially hoping Trifon, Victor, Fred, and Heng Sin >will weigh in on the potential, due to their Web and XML experience. Would the community support the approach and work >together?
I finished my research.
AjaxTK has good features.
But i think that weak side is:
- small community base.
- few examples.
- lot of java script.
We will have to invest in internal research and education i.e increase our know-how.
I think that AjaxTk and Zimplets deserve to be researched and PoC to be developed.
Kind regards,
Trifon