I am hooked on PGV - ie, the software, the way it works, the effort that has been put into it, and the ongoing improvements. I like to show it off at every/any opportunity.
But I continually run into comments like "does it have to look like that?" and "but the look and feel!!!". And, I must confess, it does look like it was designed by a programmer (I'm an engineer, and I can only draw straight lines....!)
Just by way of comparison, I got a copy of TNG. I was impressed by a number of things. I like the little report writer but was taken by the "templates" to let you easily change the look and feel. If you've not seen a template package, the one I have is 15 files, made up of 7 images, 3 small style sheets, 2 HTML files and 3 well-commented PHP files. Very easy to amend to your own taste and shape.
It is my belief that PGV lets itself down in the 'looks' department. So, would it be possible to take a small amount of time off (or even start a fund to hire a designer? I'll kick in...) to match the programming effort with some ergonomic and interesting visuals? Please?
There was a long-ish discussion about this earlier in 2007, if anyone wants to read.
Paul
Australia
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I almost stayed with TNG for it's simplicity even though I was very reluctant to give up "relationship privacy"
"Under the hood" TNG is just as bad as PGV in terms of how HTML and CSS ought to be done. Much of that, of course, is unavoidable when generating HTML from PHP. But not all of it. And changing a PGV theme is MUCH easier than modifying a TNG template.
I, too, would like to make improvements on the appearance. Which I have started to do on http://UniGen.us/PGV. The first big improvement was changing from default to cloudy.
But I'd also like to point out that PGV is not really bad when you compare it to some of the aesthetic GARBAGE that the general public inexplicably seems to _expect_ on websites.
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Hi Paul,
I missed the original discussion, but went back and found it after your post (thanks!). Several of the suggestions from that thread have been incorporated in the past few months. But arguably the most important thing to arise from that thread was pgvthemes.com. As word spreads and more themes are added, it will become a great resource. Currently I am working there on a form to create a custom theme (and would welcome help from anyone who offers!).
The look and nearly all of the layout can be changed pretty radically by changing themes. Admittedly, though, there are limits to what can be done by a simple theme change, as the UI _behavior_ is largely dictated outside the theme files. Still, the program continues to become more user friendly with each update. And, IMO, it competes very well with any paid program I've seen!
CiCi :)
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I've just committed to the 4.2 branch the first of a series of templates that I hope to do. (This has been on my list of things to do since the previous thread, but there is just too much to do.) This first one is the person box template and it controls the display of the boxes that are used for the charts and the close relatives tab. I figured that was the one that people wanted to change the most. Overall it gives theme designers the ability to customize the boxes for their theme... give them rounded corners, make them bigger or smaller, etc.
I didn't want all the overhead that is associated with existing template engines like smarty, and I wanted to keep it simple. Essentially I took the skeletal HTML out of the print_pedigree_person() function and put it into its own file themedir/templates/personbox_template.php. The function now grabs all of the data and stores it in temporary variables. At the end of the function, I have it include the template file which controls how the variables are printed.
What other components of the UI would you like templates for?
I'll throw out a couple of ideas I've thought of:
- Facts table row (the fact row that appears on the first tab of the indi page)
- Blocks (the blocks that can be configured on the welcome and mygedview pages)
--John
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However, something that could sometimes be done instead (or along with) would be to have far less use of tables. Instead, identify components with classes and IDs so that most of the formatting could be done in CSS. For the cases where single-row or single-column tables seem necessary for grouping, usually a span or div would be better.
This would reduce bandwidth usage, simplify some of the code, and improve sites for non-visual people.
I am not suggesting to eliminate tables for info that semantically IS a table, just to use them less as a formatting tool.
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Anonymous
-
2007-11-22
John
This a great idea. Modularising (is there such a word?) the core components takes full advantage of PGVs greatest strength - the back-end processing - while leaving individual design/developpers almost complete freedom to take the UI wherever they want.
Fantastic. I look forward to seeing how far this goes.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
I am hooked on PGV - ie, the software, the way it works, the effort that has been put into it, and the ongoing improvements. I like to show it off at every/any opportunity.
But I continually run into comments like "does it have to look like that?" and "but the look and feel!!!". And, I must confess, it does look like it was designed by a programmer (I'm an engineer, and I can only draw straight lines....!)
Just by way of comparison, I got a copy of TNG. I was impressed by a number of things. I like the little report writer but was taken by the "templates" to let you easily change the look and feel. If you've not seen a template package, the one I have is 15 files, made up of 7 images, 3 small style sheets, 2 HTML files and 3 well-commented PHP files. Very easy to amend to your own taste and shape.
It is my belief that PGV lets itself down in the 'looks' department. So, would it be possible to take a small amount of time off (or even start a fund to hire a designer? I'll kick in...) to match the programming effort with some ergonomic and interesting visuals? Please?
There was a long-ish discussion about this earlier in 2007, if anyone wants to read.
Paul
Australia
I almost stayed with TNG for it's simplicity even though I was very reluctant to give up "relationship privacy"
"Under the hood" TNG is just as bad as PGV in terms of how HTML and CSS ought to be done. Much of that, of course, is unavoidable when generating HTML from PHP. But not all of it. And changing a PGV theme is MUCH easier than modifying a TNG template.
I, too, would like to make improvements on the appearance. Which I have started to do on http://UniGen.us/PGV. The first big improvement was changing from default to cloudy.
But I'd also like to point out that PGV is not really bad when you compare it to some of the aesthetic GARBAGE that the general public inexplicably seems to _expect_ on websites.
Hi Paul,
I missed the original discussion, but went back and found it after your post (thanks!). Several of the suggestions from that thread have been incorporated in the past few months. But arguably the most important thing to arise from that thread was pgvthemes.com. As word spreads and more themes are added, it will become a great resource. Currently I am working there on a form to create a custom theme (and would welcome help from anyone who offers!).
The look and nearly all of the layout can be changed pretty radically by changing themes. Admittedly, though, there are limits to what can be done by a simple theme change, as the UI _behavior_ is largely dictated outside the theme files. Still, the program continues to become more user friendly with each update. And, IMO, it competes very well with any paid program I've seen!
CiCi :)
I've taken this ugly duckling over to PGVThemes.
Paul
Australia
I've just committed to the 4.2 branch the first of a series of templates that I hope to do. (This has been on my list of things to do since the previous thread, but there is just too much to do.) This first one is the person box template and it controls the display of the boxes that are used for the charts and the close relatives tab. I figured that was the one that people wanted to change the most. Overall it gives theme designers the ability to customize the boxes for their theme... give them rounded corners, make them bigger or smaller, etc.
I didn't want all the overhead that is associated with existing template engines like smarty, and I wanted to keep it simple. Essentially I took the skeletal HTML out of the print_pedigree_person() function and put it into its own file themedir/templates/personbox_template.php. The function now grabs all of the data and stores it in temporary variables. At the end of the function, I have it include the template file which controls how the variables are printed.
What other components of the UI would you like templates for?
I'll throw out a couple of ideas I've thought of:
- Facts table row (the fact row that appears on the first tab of the indi page)
- Blocks (the blocks that can be configured on the welcome and mygedview pages)
--John
I like the templates idea.
However, something that could sometimes be done instead (or along with) would be to have far less use of tables. Instead, identify components with classes and IDs so that most of the formatting could be done in CSS. For the cases where single-row or single-column tables seem necessary for grouping, usually a span or div would be better.
This would reduce bandwidth usage, simplify some of the code, and improve sites for non-visual people.
I am not suggesting to eliminate tables for info that semantically IS a table, just to use them less as a formatting tool.
John
This a great idea. Modularising (is there such a word?) the core components takes full advantage of PGVs greatest strength - the back-end processing - while leaving individual design/developpers almost complete freedom to take the UI wherever they want.
Fantastic. I look forward to seeing how far this goes.
Just for fun, I've drawn a new PGV logo. Its at http://wiki.phpgedview.net/en/index.php/PGVWiki:Logo at the foot of the page.
The idea is to create a distinctive shape. The colours and so on are not terribly important just yet.
Paul
Australia