From now on, I decide to recommend Openbravo or Adempiere to my friends. Compiere is NOT free, NOT open source any more. Compiere will die in the coming months.
Really a joke from Compiere. They now call Compiere 2.6.3 "service pack". This means all Compiere users and developers who have not buy the expensive Compiere contract will use the old Compiere version full of bugs!
If Compiere releases 3.0 this fall, they will call Compiere 3.1, 3.2 and 3.x as "service pack". Remember, Compiere Service Packs (installers and source code) are NOT free.
Compiere has marked itself Open Source. But now? Shit!!
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
All is bad, but :
" ...
9.Will you make Service Packs available to users who are not on support subscriptions (e.g. sourceforge.net)?
We publish major open source releases to SourceForge, not Service Packs. Improvements provided in service packs will eventually propagate to SourceForge when we publish the next open source release.
..."
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
>service packs will eventually propagate to SourceForge when we publish the next open source release.
Like to express response to this line. Firstly i hope CR allows me to touch on a thread that talks about u-know-who. He has advised about forgetting about u-know-who and focus more on ADempiere as a project by itself. I agree, but the line i refer to is about the impact to the philosophical arguments of going Open Source in the first place. Here i m discussing in general without reference to Compiere cos i m not fully aware nor studied exactly its entire business model. Here i refer to a hyphotetical case of Subscribe first, Free later model.
1) By saying the above robs one of the upper hand in terms of planting the flag first. Software improves so fast that been first to open continues to maintain the leading mindshare of trust and confidence one enjoy in the first place. Unless of course the strategist in the vendor thinks that been too first is no good. Well, i disagree. You must blaze the ground you walk on, and dry up the ocean u swim in.
2) What is the advantage of giving to a paying club first? How many are paying? And how much of the subscriptions can u earn vs say a worldwide franchisee of ISVs? And which segment is more defendable? I think subscribing to some brand carries less retention than paying to some listed vendor that is backed by a brand.
3) How does such paying subscription model helps its larger service model? In the field where ISVs are greatly needed to implement ERP, will the club ISVs feel safe for long? Where is the community advantage of resolving bugs, releasing often and having a piece of the pie in the trunk?
I liken this thinking to trying to fish with a single hook in a big ocean of fishes. Just like trying to sell CDs ala Richard Stallman early days when web or high storage clients wasn't around no longer quite make it in this broad and fast and everywhere space.
Today, been a big name in a certain place really really means alot. Been a big name in all places means u re god. You can easily get funds. Once u do, u shuldnt go and buy the next ferrari and sip juice. You shuld hurry to bring in more hay to your running horses. Add in more killer stuff, and truly wipe out the competition as the world seen it. No one else can survive when you give hook, sinker, yacht and jet. Hey, Mr Gates, can u say a few words on this here? Cmon Bill, help me out.
red1
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
A number of individuals, many of whom are affiliated with forks of the successful Compiere project, are posting incorrect and damaging statements regarding Compiere's business strategy and its newly released Service Pack.
Compiere would like to set the record straight. Service Packs are a step forward by Compiere towards improving stability and supportability for the large class of customers who want vendor support for their business-critical ERP solution. They are not a step away from open source licensing for the Compiere ERP and CRM project.
We invite you to learn more about Compiere's strategy behind service packs <http://blog.compiere.com/2007/08/innovation-and-.html> and the details of Compiere Service Pack 2.6.3 <http://www.compiere.com/support/service-packs.php> by visiting the Compiere Web Site.
Bill Freedman
Compiere, Inc.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
It's clear for me now that your project remains open source - although some sort of strange new term like "closed or limited open source" - what a contradiction! :-)
I'm not sure if this new "model" is tested before in other projects - even RedHat don't hide their code from CentOS.
I just can wish you success with this experiment. And give you thanks for the continued support.
What I can see clearly now is that you're farther from community every day.
Sorry for the words, maybe I'm just sad of seeing the father sinking.
Regards,
Carlos Ruiz
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
>A number of individuals, many of whom are affiliated with
>forks of the successful Compiere project, are posting
>incorrect and damaging statements regarding Compiere's
>business strategy and its newly released Service Pack.
If source code can be freely downloaded and it is licensed with osi approved license - it is Open Source. If there is no public source code then it is not Open Source.
Business strategy has nothing to do with it!
-kontro-
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
sorry but I just don't understand this business model:
>Service Packs, which are a fee-based service from Compiere,
>enhance the ability of our customers and Authorized Partners to maintain a stable,
>supportable production environment.
and
>Compiere Stable Releases and Service Packs are both distributed under an
>OSI-approved open source license: GPL Version 2.
So if I understand that right you need only one customer paying the fee (or maybe 10 or 100 people sharing the fee)
and sharing the Service Pack with the community. So why don't you just release it for free (btw - hey it's a service
pack to fix existing bugs and to make the software usable..)
Regards,
Karsten
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
>A number of individuals, many of whom are affiliated with forks of the successful Compiere project, are >posting incorrect and damaging statements regarding Compiere's business strategy and its newly released >Service Pack.
>successful Compiere project
I belive that correct words are successful project from the past.
>Compiere would like to set the record straight. Service Packs are a step forward by Compiere towards >improving stability and supportability for the large class of customers who want vendor support for their >business-critical ERP solution. They are not a step away from open source licensing for the Compiere ERP >and CRM project.
Wish you success with your new strategy and i would like to say you BIG THANK YOU! Compiere Inc. just clear they way to the forks.
Sleep well Compiere Inc. and all Directors,
Trifon
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Perhaps, Compiere should learn much from Red Hat. The source code of their enterprise linux is free to download, and Red Hat will continue to be the number one in the market for years, even Oracle Enterprise Linux and CentOS have forked or rebranded from Red Hat Enterprise Linux.
I agree with Timo Kontro. No public source code means it's NOT open source.
In short, Compiere is NOT open source.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
As a long term Compiere Partner I am pleased to say that Compiere's move away from 'nightly builds' to the introduction of periodic service packs is a welcome change to the provision of support for enterprise level software solutions to mid market organisations. It is an approach which will provide a significantly lower risk to organisations in the deployment and use of their ERP solution.
There are clearly alternative approaches which sit better with certain people than the model that Compiere has chosen to adopt and everyone has the right to choose the model and product that makes best sense for them.
However, what really demonstrates a difference of approach are the utterings of people like zompiere which are unprofessional and of help to noone. Zompiere's posts help neither Compiere, Adempiere nor Openbravo. If I were a potential client of zompiere I would quickly conclude that he is not able to offer professional and unbiased advice.
Many of the people involved with Compiere, Adempiere and/or Openbravo have made significant contributions in the Sourceforge forums to assist the community but a search for 'zompiere' provides no evidence of him having made any such contribution (perhaps he could let us know if he has made his contributions under another name).
In a post on the 14th August he states that he is a Compiere developer and presumably supplements his income by leveraging from the Compiere code base. Maybe zompiere could be a little more generous in giving Compiere's new management some time to establish their credentials and bona fides.
I for one would be pleased if the Adempiere and Openbravo luminaries could distance themselves from his views and get on with the business of competing in the marketplace.
Regards
Martin Fuggle
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
I believe there are some elements of confusion.
From my understanding, open source software means that the source code is publicly available and nothing more.
However, the reason why Compiere was forked was although the Compiere was open source, the community was not allowed to participate into the project. The main source of disatisfaction was the community management by Compiere.
There are many different open source projects with at one end a very open community (each voice is heard and listened) and at the other end of that spectrum a very closed way of managing a community. The debate whether a project is open source or not resides solely on whether the code is freely available to the public. The open source license says nothing about how the community is and will be managed.
It is up to the people then to determine what type of business models they believe in. For example, you can have an open source software for version n-1 also with another commercial open source licence for version n. From my point of view, the people who elects to give freely their source code are also free to decide what business strategy suits them best. I also firmly believe that one should also respect and acknolwedge that hefty investment in terms of time dedication and money is put in to make that source available to the public.
This might be only semantic but I think this can throw the debate on another level.
Alexander Tsang
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
> you can have an open source software for version n-1
> also with another commercial open source licence for
> version n
Hi Alexander, exactly that's the point - in this case looks like version n-1 is GPL, but version n IS NOT GPL because of the way is being distributed (hidden sources possibly distributed besides an NDA).
Then, why call version n GPL?
Is just another trial of disguising a commercial system riding in the open-source wave? At least SugarCRM is clear and their license was rejected by OSI - but we're looking here something stated as GPL when clearly is not.
Regards,
Carlos Ruiz
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Hi Martin, personally I don't like to see zompiere trolling in compiere forums - but as you can see they're just feeding troll when they keep deleting his posts.
I don't think the "views" from zompiere are wrong, what I think is wrong is the form of expressing his views.
Also I think is wrong to delete posts from anybody - you can't say you're devoted to community and at the same time say community to shut up if you don't like his words.
This project is really devoted to community - so I just can invite zompiere to leave compiere in peace and express freely all his points of view here - with the security your opinions are not going to be deleted (even if they are criticizing Adempiere).
Regards,
Carlos Ruiz
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Compiere does NOT provide Compiere service pack to public. The service pack is the later version of Compiere 2.6.1.
It is clear Compiere is NOT open source. Jump ship, Compiere users! Go to Adempiere or Openbravo for really free and open source ERP+CRM+SCM solution!!
And yes, Compiere has the right to determine their behavior, but Compiere potentials and users and developers will finally give up Compiere.
Compiere employees keep deleting posts or threads will accelerate ending up Compiere's lifecycle. Compiere is NOT open, and they are never willing to listen to others.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
The Community is only part of the triad in any successful project - Content, Community, Commerce - preferably in that order.
We basically have elements of all three, and have to maintain a balance not just to be successful, but to at least survive as a project. But can you just survive as ONE project? The dynamics of a community that is robust and fluid in a flattened singularity of the web have broken down all walls of territory and differentials. We have to maintain that in a healthy eco-system, where all players must win or thrive and enrich thy neighbours in the same ocean. All this poses a tremendous challenge to all of us. In facing them, there has to be deep respect for each individual project. We at the community level has maintained that and as Carlos and Ramiro just said attempted overtures and then undertones to try to even bring ships back together.
Of course, the individual project spirit are individualistic and may even be better to remain so in such an eco-system. Perhaps this is part of what Martin of Adaxa meant. But its obvious he meant further. Back to the word respect.
I just came back from a 3 day pow-wow with the Malaysian IBM P-Series team where i got to be one of the trainers for human development. One of its top managers of 33 yrs non-stop servitude who just returned from his Vietnam's Country Manager position shared with us about the principles behind the century old story as laid down by the founder Tom Watson Sr's 'respect for the individual' was distilled into 'Trust and Personal Responsibility in All Relationships' including with their sometimes unfriendly customers.
I think that we all here are part of a big family and we all know we must always be open to each other, and sometimes our exchanges are meant to express each individual need and viewpoint rather than the whole. So they can be frank and blunt, all for the good of the community today and the future. We have to read them with a more larger lens.
Have fun!
red1
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Compiere is trying to prevent me from telling the truth. But I must help those who are looking for open source applications, and let them know Compiere is NOT open source. They keep deleting my posts in Compiere forum.
Compiere cheats the public it's open source software. But since Compiere 2.6.3, they do not provide public access to their source code and software.
Why not jump ship to Adempiere now, Compiere users!!! With Adempiere, the ERP software is not vendor locked.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
You can rest assured that your opinion has been expressed here loud and clear.
This is a working forum, where we like to concentrate on the solving of functional and technical issues.
We prefer to keep open and friendly the channels of communication with related projects, and always leave open the opportunity to work together with deep respect.
I respectfully request this thread to be concluded.
Regards,
Joel Stangeland
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
I am a consultant looking to implement a solution for my customers, and normally, I would have moved on without posting, but I think someone from the outside world needs to say something.
I have been asked to investigate an Open Source Business Application solution to keep the costs down and maintain a level of enterprise oriented support. I am new to open source software, but am very open to it as long as the software and the people behind are stable. Compiere and it's "look alikes" looked like they have the functionality that meets my client's requirements.
With the likes of zompiere and a few others on this team, I won't even consider Adempiere. I need to have a group/support I can depend on, not a hope and a prayer that someone in an open forum might have the answer or attacks me as an individual seeking help.
Looking at the forums is a way to get to know the personality of the people behind the products/projects and I certainly got a good idea over here.
I see some very immature, childish and quite frankly, strange esoteric posts of rambling, nonsensical thoughts here and in the other forums, bashing the "competitor's" products, and in-fighting amongst yourselves. There is no way I would ever put one of my customers business at risk, depending on this group. Unlike zompiere, I really question the viability of this group to sustain itself for any length of time.
I am looking very closely at the Compiere model because it fits my needs to have a group I can depend on for getting information on how to do something or getting something fixed.
I don't see Compiere folks coming over here and wreaking havoc, or responding, in anything other than a business like manner to some outlandish posts. It tells me the customer base and leadership is much more mature and business like over there, will be dependable and sustaining itself well beyond this one.
As a consultant who makes a living implementing and depending on software vendors to ensure success, I simply can't see myself recommending this software product based on the community involved.
Good Luck Folks, based on my experience you will need it.
Don't bother answering, as I am moving on to review other products/projects, but you people need to think about a few things and get a grip on reality.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
>As a consultant who makes a living implementing and depending on software
> vendors to ensure success, I simply can't see myself recommending this software product
>based on the community involved.
>Good Luck Folks, based on my experience you will need it.
>
>Don't bother answering, as I am moving on to review other products/projects,
>but you people need to think about a few things and get a grip on reality.
Thank you for your comments. You have some good points. Like internal fights which are really bad thing, but do you think that such fights do not exist in Commercial projects? I do not think so. Just commercial companies have one manager who command what to do.
But i agree that fight are the worst thing that can happen.
I would like to point that i make my living implementing and developing ERP software and here you can find many companies which offer implementation and development services around Adempiere. We are not just a community but a group also. Group which has offices in many countries and group which has many ideas. Ideas which can lead to better product. This is the beauty of community!
Two examples:
1) If you need EDI and ask Compiere Inc. for it, what you will get as answer?
2) If you need Replication and ask Compiere Inc.?
Few questions:
1) If you hire a company to develop functionality would Compiere Inc. accept it as part of Core product? This is one of major reasons we forked.
2) How much will cost to your customer migration of new functionality?
I will be happy to get a answer from you?
Even if you do consider this questions as non important price and functionality is the key which makes companies move from product to product and from technology to technology.
Kind regards,
Trifon
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
>>I am a consultant looking to implement a solution for my customers,
>>and normally, I would have moved on without posting,
>>but I think someone from the outside world needs to say something.
>>I have been asked to investigate an Open Source Business Application solution
>>to keep the costs down and maintain a level of enterprise oriented support.
>>I am new to open source software, but am very open to it as long as the software
>>and the people behind are stable.
>>Compiere and it's "look alikes" looked like they have the functionality
>>that meets my client's requirements.
Your poor Clinet hired a lazy and disable consultant can not independent work out.
Open Source is open mind and open source not commerical software all money support.
Use Opensouce means your a big-guy a senior Manager/Accountant/JavaDeveloper/DBA.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
This morning I received the newsletter from Compiere.
My god, since Compiere 2.6.3, NO open source, NO free, any more.
Open source as GPL license? A joke. Release earlier to the community? Yet another joke.
From now on, Compiere has decided to drive away its community.
Compiere will soon be driven out of the open source business market by Openbravo and Adempiere .... Let's sit and see.
From now on, I decide to recommend Openbravo or Adempiere to my friends. Compiere is NOT free, NOT open source any more. Compiere will die in the coming months.
Really a joke from Compiere. They now call Compiere 2.6.3 "service pack". This means all Compiere users and developers who have not buy the expensive Compiere contract will use the old Compiere version full of bugs!
If Compiere releases 3.0 this fall, they will call Compiere 3.1, 3.2 and 3.x as "service pack". Remember, Compiere Service Packs (installers and source code) are NOT free.
Compiere has marked itself Open Source. But now? Shit!!
I'm a Compiere developer, but now I'm driven away, just like other helpless community people.
Bad news for Compiere, and good news for Openbravo and Adempiere!
All is bad, but :
" ...
9.Will you make Service Packs available to users who are not on support subscriptions (e.g. sourceforge.net)?
We publish major open source releases to SourceForge, not Service Packs. Improvements provided in service packs will eventually propagate to SourceForge when we publish the next open source release.
..."
Hi Zompiere,
>This morning I received the newsletter from Compiere.
>My god, since Compiere 2.6.3, NO open source, NO free, any more.
Yes, bad news. We say this before 1 year.
I also received announce from Compiere. I sent them welcome message and said big thank you! Compiere Inc. works for us and OpenBravo now.
Kind regards,
Trifon
>service packs will eventually propagate to SourceForge when we publish the next open source release.
Like to express response to this line. Firstly i hope CR allows me to touch on a thread that talks about u-know-who. He has advised about forgetting about u-know-who and focus more on ADempiere as a project by itself. I agree, but the line i refer to is about the impact to the philosophical arguments of going Open Source in the first place. Here i m discussing in general without reference to Compiere cos i m not fully aware nor studied exactly its entire business model. Here i refer to a hyphotetical case of Subscribe first, Free later model.
1) By saying the above robs one of the upper hand in terms of planting the flag first. Software improves so fast that been first to open continues to maintain the leading mindshare of trust and confidence one enjoy in the first place. Unless of course the strategist in the vendor thinks that been too first is no good. Well, i disagree. You must blaze the ground you walk on, and dry up the ocean u swim in.
2) What is the advantage of giving to a paying club first? How many are paying? And how much of the subscriptions can u earn vs say a worldwide franchisee of ISVs? And which segment is more defendable? I think subscribing to some brand carries less retention than paying to some listed vendor that is backed by a brand.
3) How does such paying subscription model helps its larger service model? In the field where ISVs are greatly needed to implement ERP, will the club ISVs feel safe for long? Where is the community advantage of resolving bugs, releasing often and having a piece of the pie in the trunk?
I liken this thinking to trying to fish with a single hook in a big ocean of fishes. Just like trying to sell CDs ala Richard Stallman early days when web or high storage clients wasn't around no longer quite make it in this broad and fast and everywhere space.
Today, been a big name in a certain place really really means alot. Been a big name in all places means u re god. You can easily get funds. Once u do, u shuldnt go and buy the next ferrari and sip juice. You shuld hurry to bring in more hay to your running horses. Add in more killer stuff, and truly wipe out the competition as the world seen it. No one else can survive when you give hook, sinker, yacht and jet. Hey, Mr Gates, can u say a few words on this here? Cmon Bill, help me out.
red1
A number of individuals, many of whom are affiliated with forks of the successful Compiere project, are posting incorrect and damaging statements regarding Compiere's business strategy and its newly released Service Pack.
Compiere would like to set the record straight. Service Packs are a step forward by Compiere towards improving stability and supportability for the large class of customers who want vendor support for their business-critical ERP solution. They are not a step away from open source licensing for the Compiere ERP and CRM project.
We invite you to learn more about Compiere's strategy behind service packs <http://blog.compiere.com/2007/08/innovation-and-.html> and the details of Compiere Service Pack 2.6.3 <http://www.compiere.com/support/service-packs.php> by visiting the Compiere Web Site.
Bill Freedman
Compiere, Inc.
Thanks Bill for the clarification.
It's clear for me now that your project remains open source - although some sort of strange new term like "closed or limited open source" - what a contradiction! :-)
I'm not sure if this new "model" is tested before in other projects - even RedHat don't hide their code from CentOS.
I just can wish you success with this experiment. And give you thanks for the continued support.
What I can see clearly now is that you're farther from community every day.
Sorry for the words, maybe I'm just sad of seeing the father sinking.
Regards,
Carlos Ruiz
>A number of individuals, many of whom are affiliated with
>forks of the successful Compiere project, are posting
>incorrect and damaging statements regarding Compiere's
>business strategy and its newly released Service Pack.
If source code can be freely downloaded and it is licensed with osi approved license - it is Open Source. If there is no public source code then it is not Open Source.
Business strategy has nothing to do with it!
-kontro-
Hi Bill,
sorry but I just don't understand this business model:
>Service Packs, which are a fee-based service from Compiere,
>enhance the ability of our customers and Authorized Partners to maintain a stable,
>supportable production environment.
and
>Compiere Stable Releases and Service Packs are both distributed under an
>OSI-approved open source license: GPL Version 2.
So if I understand that right you need only one customer paying the fee (or maybe 10 or 100 people sharing the fee)
and sharing the Service Pack with the community. So why don't you just release it for free (btw - hey it's a service
pack to fix existing bugs and to make the software usable..)
Regards,
Karsten
Hi Bill,
>A number of individuals, many of whom are affiliated with forks of the successful Compiere project, are >posting incorrect and damaging statements regarding Compiere's business strategy and its newly released >Service Pack.
>successful Compiere project
I belive that correct words are successful project from the past.
>Compiere would like to set the record straight. Service Packs are a step forward by Compiere towards >improving stability and supportability for the large class of customers who want vendor support for their >business-critical ERP solution. They are not a step away from open source licensing for the Compiere ERP >and CRM project.
Wish you success with your new strategy and i would like to say you BIG THANK YOU! Compiere Inc. just clear they way to the forks.
Sleep well Compiere Inc. and all Directors,
Trifon
Perhaps, Compiere should learn much from Red Hat. The source code of their enterprise linux is free to download, and Red Hat will continue to be the number one in the market for years, even Oracle Enterprise Linux and CentOS have forked or rebranded from Red Hat Enterprise Linux.
I agree with Timo Kontro. No public source code means it's NOT open source.
In short, Compiere is NOT open source.
ComPiere has deleted two threads in their Open Forum.
ComPiere lacks in self confidence.
Adempiere is a better choice than Compiere. Adempiere is really open source and really free.
As a long term Compiere Partner I am pleased to say that Compiere's move away from 'nightly builds' to the introduction of periodic service packs is a welcome change to the provision of support for enterprise level software solutions to mid market organisations. It is an approach which will provide a significantly lower risk to organisations in the deployment and use of their ERP solution.
There are clearly alternative approaches which sit better with certain people than the model that Compiere has chosen to adopt and everyone has the right to choose the model and product that makes best sense for them.
However, what really demonstrates a difference of approach are the utterings of people like zompiere which are unprofessional and of help to noone. Zompiere's posts help neither Compiere, Adempiere nor Openbravo. If I were a potential client of zompiere I would quickly conclude that he is not able to offer professional and unbiased advice.
Many of the people involved with Compiere, Adempiere and/or Openbravo have made significant contributions in the Sourceforge forums to assist the community but a search for 'zompiere' provides no evidence of him having made any such contribution (perhaps he could let us know if he has made his contributions under another name).
In a post on the 14th August he states that he is a Compiere developer and presumably supplements his income by leveraging from the Compiere code base. Maybe zompiere could be a little more generous in giving Compiere's new management some time to establish their credentials and bona fides.
I for one would be pleased if the Adempiere and Openbravo luminaries could distance themselves from his views and get on with the business of competing in the marketplace.
Regards
Martin Fuggle
Hi all,
I believe there are some elements of confusion.
From my understanding, open source software means that the source code is publicly available and nothing more.
However, the reason why Compiere was forked was although the Compiere was open source, the community was not allowed to participate into the project. The main source of disatisfaction was the community management by Compiere.
There are many different open source projects with at one end a very open community (each voice is heard and listened) and at the other end of that spectrum a very closed way of managing a community. The debate whether a project is open source or not resides solely on whether the code is freely available to the public. The open source license says nothing about how the community is and will be managed.
It is up to the people then to determine what type of business models they believe in. For example, you can have an open source software for version n-1 also with another commercial open source licence for version n. From my point of view, the people who elects to give freely their source code are also free to decide what business strategy suits them best. I also firmly believe that one should also respect and acknolwedge that hefty investment in terms of time dedication and money is put in to make that source available to the public.
This might be only semantic but I think this can throw the debate on another level.
Alexander Tsang
> you can have an open source software for version n-1
> also with another commercial open source licence for
> version n
Hi Alexander, exactly that's the point - in this case looks like version n-1 is GPL, but version n IS NOT GPL because of the way is being distributed (hidden sources possibly distributed besides an NDA).
Then, why call version n GPL?
Is just another trial of disguising a commercial system riding in the open-source wave? At least SugarCRM is clear and their license was rejected by OSI - but we're looking here something stated as GPL when clearly is not.
Regards,
Carlos Ruiz
Hi Martin, personally I don't like to see zompiere trolling in compiere forums - but as you can see they're just feeding troll when they keep deleting his posts.
I don't think the "views" from zompiere are wrong, what I think is wrong is the form of expressing his views.
Also I think is wrong to delete posts from anybody - you can't say you're devoted to community and at the same time say community to shut up if you don't like his words.
This project is really devoted to community - so I just can invite zompiere to leave compiere in peace and express freely all his points of view here - with the security your opinions are not going to be deleted (even if they are criticizing Adempiere).
Regards,
Carlos Ruiz
Compiere does NOT provide Compiere service pack to public. The service pack is the later version of Compiere 2.6.1.
It is clear Compiere is NOT open source. Jump ship, Compiere users! Go to Adempiere or Openbravo for really free and open source ERP+CRM+SCM solution!!
http://www.adempiere.org/
http://www.openbravo.com/
And yes, Compiere has the right to determine their behavior, but Compiere potentials and users and developers will finally give up Compiere.
Compiere employees keep deleting posts or threads will accelerate ending up Compiere's lifecycle. Compiere is NOT open, and they are never willing to listen to others.
Dear all:
What different :
Since Compiere 2.6.3, NO open source, NO (New)
with :
Since Adempiere, Can't use SAP Account Automatic Determination, NO (SAP)
Since Adempiere, Can't import / inport SAP Transaction Data, NO (SAP)
No Little Friend,
No Big Uncle.
The Community is only part of the triad in any successful project - Content, Community, Commerce - preferably in that order.
We basically have elements of all three, and have to maintain a balance not just to be successful, but to at least survive as a project. But can you just survive as ONE project? The dynamics of a community that is robust and fluid in a flattened singularity of the web have broken down all walls of territory and differentials. We have to maintain that in a healthy eco-system, where all players must win or thrive and enrich thy neighbours in the same ocean. All this poses a tremendous challenge to all of us. In facing them, there has to be deep respect for each individual project. We at the community level has maintained that and as Carlos and Ramiro just said attempted overtures and then undertones to try to even bring ships back together.
Of course, the individual project spirit are individualistic and may even be better to remain so in such an eco-system. Perhaps this is part of what Martin of Adaxa meant. But its obvious he meant further. Back to the word respect.
I just came back from a 3 day pow-wow with the Malaysian IBM P-Series team where i got to be one of the trainers for human development. One of its top managers of 33 yrs non-stop servitude who just returned from his Vietnam's Country Manager position shared with us about the principles behind the century old story as laid down by the founder Tom Watson Sr's 'respect for the individual' was distilled into 'Trust and Personal Responsibility in All Relationships' including with their sometimes unfriendly customers.
I think that we all here are part of a big family and we all know we must always be open to each other, and sometimes our exchanges are meant to express each individual need and viewpoint rather than the whole. So they can be frank and blunt, all for the good of the community today and the future. We have to read them with a more larger lens.
Have fun!
red1
Compiere is trying to prevent me from telling the truth. But I must help those who are looking for open source applications, and let them know Compiere is NOT open source. They keep deleting my posts in Compiere forum.
Compiere cheats the public it's open source software. But since Compiere 2.6.3, they do not provide public access to their source code and software.
Why not jump ship to Adempiere now, Compiere users!!! With Adempiere, the ERP software is not vendor locked.
zompiere,
You can rest assured that your opinion has been expressed here loud and clear.
This is a working forum, where we like to concentrate on the solving of functional and technical issues.
We prefer to keep open and friendly the channels of communication with related projects, and always leave open the opportunity to work together with deep respect.
I respectfully request this thread to be concluded.
Regards,
Joel Stangeland
I am a consultant looking to implement a solution for my customers, and normally, I would have moved on without posting, but I think someone from the outside world needs to say something.
I have been asked to investigate an Open Source Business Application solution to keep the costs down and maintain a level of enterprise oriented support. I am new to open source software, but am very open to it as long as the software and the people behind are stable. Compiere and it's "look alikes" looked like they have the functionality that meets my client's requirements.
With the likes of zompiere and a few others on this team, I won't even consider Adempiere. I need to have a group/support I can depend on, not a hope and a prayer that someone in an open forum might have the answer or attacks me as an individual seeking help.
Looking at the forums is a way to get to know the personality of the people behind the products/projects and I certainly got a good idea over here.
I see some very immature, childish and quite frankly, strange esoteric posts of rambling, nonsensical thoughts here and in the other forums, bashing the "competitor's" products, and in-fighting amongst yourselves. There is no way I would ever put one of my customers business at risk, depending on this group. Unlike zompiere, I really question the viability of this group to sustain itself for any length of time.
I am looking very closely at the Compiere model because it fits my needs to have a group I can depend on for getting information on how to do something or getting something fixed.
I don't see Compiere folks coming over here and wreaking havoc, or responding, in anything other than a business like manner to some outlandish posts. It tells me the customer base and leadership is much more mature and business like over there, will be dependable and sustaining itself well beyond this one.
As a consultant who makes a living implementing and depending on software vendors to ensure success, I simply can't see myself recommending this software product based on the community involved.
Good Luck Folks, based on my experience you will need it.
Don't bother answering, as I am moving on to review other products/projects, but you people need to think about a few things and get a grip on reality.
Hi Sands Consulting,
>As a consultant who makes a living implementing and depending on software
> vendors to ensure success, I simply can't see myself recommending this software product
>based on the community involved.
>Good Luck Folks, based on my experience you will need it.
>
>Don't bother answering, as I am moving on to review other products/projects,
>but you people need to think about a few things and get a grip on reality.
Thank you for your comments. You have some good points. Like internal fights which are really bad thing, but do you think that such fights do not exist in Commercial projects? I do not think so. Just commercial companies have one manager who command what to do.
But i agree that fight are the worst thing that can happen.
I would like to point that i make my living implementing and developing ERP software and here you can find many companies which offer implementation and development services around Adempiere. We are not just a community but a group also. Group which has offices in many countries and group which has many ideas. Ideas which can lead to better product. This is the beauty of community!
Two examples:
1) If you need EDI and ask Compiere Inc. for it, what you will get as answer?
2) If you need Replication and ask Compiere Inc.?
Few questions:
1) If you hire a company to develop functionality would Compiere Inc. accept it as part of Core product? This is one of major reasons we forked.
2) How much will cost to your customer migration of new functionality?
I will be happy to get a answer from you?
Even if you do consider this questions as non important price and functionality is the key which makes companies move from product to product and from technology to technology.
Kind regards,
Trifon
>>I am a consultant looking to implement a solution for my customers,
>>and normally, I would have moved on without posting,
>>but I think someone from the outside world needs to say something.
>>I have been asked to investigate an Open Source Business Application solution
>>to keep the costs down and maintain a level of enterprise oriented support.
>>I am new to open source software, but am very open to it as long as the software
>>and the people behind are stable.
>>Compiere and it's "look alikes" looked like they have the functionality
>>that meets my client's requirements.
Your poor Clinet hired a lazy and disable consultant can not independent work out.
Open Source is open mind and open source not commerical software all money support.
Use Opensouce means your a big-guy a senior Manager/Accountant/JavaDeveloper/DBA.