Hi everybody,
first of all thanks for the responses on my prior message.
I am evaluating Adempiere and comparing it with Axapta. I find Adempiere DD powerful but not as much as Axapta's. But it is very close. I would like to collaborate by describing nice features in Axapta for you to consider them for Adempiere.
I would ask you to review this document. May be I am wrong, but I think that modifications proposed will improve Adempiere. http://www.adempiere.com/wiki/images/2/27/Axapta_vs_adempiere_data_dictionary.pdf
Regards,
Emilio Arrufat
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thank you for your post. All ideas and suggestions are more than welcome.
Would you alow us to make a wiki page from your PDF document?
With wiki page all developers can contribute their ideas and coment and make document better.
Kind regards,
Trifon
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I would caution against copy "ideas" from a company like Microsoft.
I'm not a lawyer, but saying "Axapta does it like this lets copy it" might very easily poison any such idea. By that I mean if someone in the community comes up with an idea on their own and we discuss its merits in the community and implement it. Then at least IF we are deemed to have breached some patent help by Microsoft we can legitimately claim that we develop this ourselves and have the forum discussions to prove we did not simply copy some idea of Microsofts. Now I am lucky to live some place were software patents do not "currently" hold sway, but I think we should pay attention to the subject as many people do live in such a places. I'm not saying I would not implement something because MS has a patent on it, but if I have a choice then I think it must, if we are to take all of the community into account, have some bearing.
So ideas I think are always welcome, but we need to be original.
colin
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Colin,
yes, may be you are wright. What I intended, in a naïf way, was try to describe what sounds to me an interesting idea, BUT with the example of AX.
However, I consider that the idea of overload the ADempiere element with all properties spread on DD could be worth to discuss. Would you me to start a new topic only on what I'd modify?
Trifon, I am not able to find the way to delete the file I uploaded to the wiki. If you can, please delete it.
To the forum admin, please, would yo delete this thread?
Thank to you two.
Emilio Arrufat
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Yes Emilio,
I too think it a good idea and in some thread, a while back, on creating a n-tier solution I commented that I felt the AD was in concept tied to a DB with its basis being the Table & Fields, when to be n-tier we need it to be tied to the Object. I think, in essence, this is the similar to what you propose?
And I'm sure your experience of Axapta has spurred ideas for you... I think this fine after all we are all effected by our experiences in life. I was simply suggesting caution in our approach :)
Well we are all learning here. I don't know any more than you in truth :) But I think if you started a conversation, in a forum thread or in the wiki, pointing to a weakness or flaw in the current AD approach. That might be enough in that the discussion on how to address this would begin an we might come to the same solution as other developments or if you have some ideas :) you could also suggest abstract solutions to address the issues you identified.
But that's just my opinion...
colin
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Emilio,
Why delete your starting contribution? Just let Trifon start the analysis in wiki (in future just put a statement that you contribute your work under GPL and ppl wont need to ask). Then we move from there, adding in ideas so that it will be originally ours or value-added as Colin asked for.
My added thanks to you.
red1
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Hi Redhuan,
I still think that Collin touched the point.
I think that I can start a new thread here or where you instructed me on wiki, to express my ideas without any reference to Ax and only defining changes to do within Adempiere parts.
What do you think?
Emilio
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Yes, it is better that way, always avoid making direct reference to proprietary solution ( It is perfectly ok for reference to opensource solution though ).
Regards,
Low
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This patent law is ridiculous. What if someone patented the English Language? So Emilio, i hereby indeminified you from any lawsuit by Axepta. You may still refer to it in your works. I m not afraid to be sued. First they have to locate which jungle i am in.
red1
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I too think the patent laws are ridiculous and more importantly how the USPTO choose to regulate them, i.e. it seems they allow everything and let people argue about it it court.
But saying that I do not think they are something we can simply dismiss. Software Patents in Europe were (by a hair) beaten the last time, but those that support them have not given up! And there are discussions under way to allow patents to be recognised between EU & USA. If this happens then I think many software firms would take of their gloves and attempt to use patents to crush OS software that compete against them. And it's not just about being sued. They might restrict distribution as they do with copyright breaches on peer-2peer and community sites.
So I think there are reasons to fear patents. I know many would say, the USA has patents and OS has survived there. I think while there is safe haven in the EU many firms turn a blind eye, but all could change very easily & quickly. So I would simply suggest caution. To quote one of the USA's founding fathers; "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." [also a great game... in the wing commander series :)]
colin
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Hi,
I agree with you very much Red1, thanks for your support, and I have to say that I am not afraid (luckily I live in Spain where, as said Colin, laws, for the moment, are not like in the USA.
I met Adempiere at its very beginning. It is still surprinsing me. It is necessary for me start comparing it with our ERP. Adempiere has functionalities and ideas we do not have. They are close in many areas what surprise me since they costed a lot of money for us. And Adempiere has lacks, some vwey much needed for us and in our country; and to that point I would want to contribute, if not coding, at least trying to discuss them.
But I would appreciate if we could stop and delete this thread, and the PDF in wiki I uploaded. I promise to start a new one with my opinions about Adempiere DD.
Emilio Arrufat
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Alas, red1, it has been a long time since I played wing commander; that was back in the DOS days, I don't normally drink alcohol (nothing against it just living outside the city I have to drive everywhere), and my 3G just stopped working about a month ago so I'm mostly back to gprs and dial up speeds. So it's an even sadder life than you think! :) But I'd rather be stress free here than back in the crowded big cities ... I've had my fill there.
colin
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Hi everybody,
first of all thanks for the responses on my prior message.
I am evaluating Adempiere and comparing it with Axapta. I find Adempiere DD powerful but not as much as Axapta's. But it is very close. I would like to collaborate by describing nice features in Axapta for you to consider them for Adempiere.
I would ask you to review this document. May be I am wrong, but I think that modifications proposed will improve Adempiere.
http://www.adempiere.com/wiki/images/2/27/Axapta_vs_adempiere_data_dictionary.pdf
Regards,
Emilio Arrufat
Hi Emilio,
thank you for your post. All ideas and suggestions are more than welcome.
Would you alow us to make a wiki page from your PDF document?
With wiki page all developers can contribute their ideas and coment and make document better.
Kind regards,
Trifon
I would caution against copy "ideas" from a company like Microsoft.
I'm not a lawyer, but saying "Axapta does it like this lets copy it" might very easily poison any such idea. By that I mean if someone in the community comes up with an idea on their own and we discuss its merits in the community and implement it. Then at least IF we are deemed to have breached some patent help by Microsoft we can legitimately claim that we develop this ourselves and have the forum discussions to prove we did not simply copy some idea of Microsofts. Now I am lucky to live some place were software patents do not "currently" hold sway, but I think we should pay attention to the subject as many people do live in such a places. I'm not saying I would not implement something because MS has a patent on it, but if I have a choice then I think it must, if we are to take all of the community into account, have some bearing.
So ideas I think are always welcome, but we need to be original.
colin
Colin,
yes, may be you are wright. What I intended, in a naïf way, was try to describe what sounds to me an interesting idea, BUT with the example of AX.
However, I consider that the idea of overload the ADempiere element with all properties spread on DD could be worth to discuss. Would you me to start a new topic only on what I'd modify?
Trifon, I am not able to find the way to delete the file I uploaded to the wiki. If you can, please delete it.
To the forum admin, please, would yo delete this thread?
Thank to you two.
Emilio Arrufat
Yes Emilio,
I too think it a good idea and in some thread, a while back, on creating a n-tier solution I commented that I felt the AD was in concept tied to a DB with its basis being the Table & Fields, when to be n-tier we need it to be tied to the Object. I think, in essence, this is the similar to what you propose?
And I'm sure your experience of Axapta has spurred ideas for you... I think this fine after all we are all effected by our experiences in life. I was simply suggesting caution in our approach :)
Well we are all learning here. I don't know any more than you in truth :) But I think if you started a conversation, in a forum thread or in the wiki, pointing to a weakness or flaw in the current AD approach. That might be enough in that the discussion on how to address this would begin an we might come to the same solution as other developments or if you have some ideas :) you could also suggest abstract solutions to address the issues you identified.
But that's just my opinion...
colin
For example
http://www.freshpatents.com/Semantic-model-development-and-deployment-dt20070208ptan20070033212.php?type=description
At first glance looks like MS is trying to patent the AD approach (or an enhanced AD anyway).
colin
Emilio,
Why delete your starting contribution? Just let Trifon start the analysis in wiki (in future just put a statement that you contribute your work under GPL and ppl wont need to ask). Then we move from there, adding in ideas so that it will be originally ours or value-added as Colin asked for.
My added thanks to you.
red1
Hi Redhuan,
I still think that Collin touched the point.
I think that I can start a new thread here or where you instructed me on wiki, to express my ideas without any reference to Ax and only defining changes to do within Adempiere parts.
What do you think?
Emilio
Hi Emilio,
Yes, it is better that way, always avoid making direct reference to proprietary solution ( It is perfectly ok for reference to opensource solution though ).
Regards,
Low
This patent law is ridiculous. What if someone patented the English Language? So Emilio, i hereby indeminified you from any lawsuit by Axepta. You may still refer to it in your works. I m not afraid to be sued. First they have to locate which jungle i am in.
red1
I too think the patent laws are ridiculous and more importantly how the USPTO choose to regulate them, i.e. it seems they allow everything and let people argue about it it court.
But saying that I do not think they are something we can simply dismiss. Software Patents in Europe were (by a hair) beaten the last time, but those that support them have not given up! And there are discussions under way to allow patents to be recognised between EU & USA. If this happens then I think many software firms would take of their gloves and attempt to use patents to crush OS software that compete against them. And it's not just about being sued. They might restrict distribution as they do with copyright breaches on peer-2peer and community sites.
So I think there are reasons to fear patents. I know many would say, the USA has patents and OS has survived there. I think while there is safe haven in the EU many firms turn a blind eye, but all could change very easily & quickly. So I would simply suggest caution. To quote one of the USA's founding fathers; "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." [also a great game... in the wing commander series :)]
colin
Hi,
I agree with you very much Red1, thanks for your support, and I have to say that I am not afraid (luckily I live in Spain where, as said Colin, laws, for the moment, are not like in the USA.
I met Adempiere at its very beginning. It is still surprinsing me. It is necessary for me start comparing it with our ERP. Adempiere has functionalities and ideas we do not have. They are close in many areas what surprise me since they costed a lot of money for us. And Adempiere has lacks, some vwey much needed for us and in our country; and to that point I would want to contribute, if not coding, at least trying to discuss them.
But I would appreciate if we could stop and delete this thread, and the PDF in wiki I uploaded. I promise to start a new one with my opinions about Adempiere DD.
Emilio Arrufat
Colin,
Between Irish whiskey, your cat and computer games, you do have an interesting life in a small town with 3g.
red1
Alas, red1, it has been a long time since I played wing commander; that was back in the DOS days, I don't normally drink alcohol (nothing against it just living outside the city I have to drive everywhere), and my 3G just stopped working about a month ago so I'm mostly back to gprs and dial up speeds. So it's an even sadder life than you think! :) But I'd rather be stress free here than back in the crowded big cities ... I've had my fill there.
colin