WaitWell is the most configurable enterprise queue management system designed to streamline service operations, boost staff efficiency, and enhance customer satisfaction across multiple industries. By transforming physical lineups into smart, automated workflows with real-time analytics, WaitWell empowers organizations to deliver faster, more personalized service with ease.
In this episode, we speak with Steve Vander Meulen about the inception and evolution of WaitWell, a platform designed to manage service queues and improve customer experiences. The conversation delves into the challenges of long wait times in various sectors like healthcare and government, and how WaitWell addresses these issues with virtual queues and real-time reporting. Steve shares insights on the importance of customer experience, operational efficiency, and the role of data analytics in enhancing service delivery. The discussion also touches on the impact of AI and technology in queue management, the need for adaptability in leadership, and the future of digital solutions in service industries.
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Show Notes
Takeaways
- WaitWell was founded to address long wait times in service industries.
- Customer experience is the primary focus in developing solutions.
- Data analytics is crucial for improving operational efficiency.
- AI can significantly enhance queue management systems.
- Organizations must adapt to a digital approach for better service delivery.
- Compliance and regulatory changes are shaping the future of the industry.
- Misconceptions about queue management often limit technological adoption.
- In-person services will always have a place alongside digital solutions.
- Leaders should analyze inefficiencies in their operations.
- Learning from setbacks is essential for growth and improvement.
Chapters
00:00 – Introduction to WaitWell and Its Origins
03:10 – The Evolution of WaitWell’s Services
06:13 – Balancing Customer Experience and Operational Efficiency
09:04 – The Role of Data in Service Improvement
11:54 – Technological Innovations in Queue Management
15:01 – The Impact of AI on Queue Management
18:04 – Challenges in Scaling Across Industries
24:05 – Enhancing Healthcare Through Technology
29:31 – Navigating Compliance and Data Security
35:51 – Transforming Queue Management for Efficiency
40:52 – Overcoming Industry Misconceptions
44:20 – Embracing Setbacks as Learning Opportunities
46:21 – Essential Qualities for Modern Leadership
Transcript
Beau Hamilton (00:00.674)
Hello everyone. And welcome to the SourceForge Podcast. Thank you for joining us today. I’m your host, Beau Hamilton, senior editor and multimedia producer here at source forage, the world’s most visited software comparison site where B2B software buyers compare and find business software solutions. Today I’m joined by Steve Vander Meulen, CEO and co-founder of WaitWell, the company started with a simple, but all too familiar problem that we’ve all experienced at some point. And that is long lines, frustrated customers and a staff stuck trying to manage all the mess without the right tools.
Steve and his co-founder, Shannon, they experienced this firsthand in their own registry office, and it led them to build something better, as the company’s name implies. So what is WaitWell? Well, it’s an all-in-one platform that helps organizations manage service, whether it’s through virtual queues, appointments, things like staff workflows or real-time reporting. And it’s being used in all sorts of different situations, like universities, government offices, healthcare, really anywhere where wait time is part of the experience. So today we’ll talk about what it takes to build tools like this from the ground up, how weight well balances walk-ins with appointments, which metrics matter the most, and some of the lessons Steve has learned along the way. So without further ado, let me bring in Steve Vander Meulen. Steve, welcome to the show. Glad you could join us.
Steve (01:20.916)
Thank you, thanks for having me.
Beau Hamilton (01:22.912)
Absolutely. Now we’ve, we’ve all experienced long wait, wait times, of course, usually in like, think of the healthcare setting or at the DMV. And we all know how it leads to frustrated customers and exhausted staff to say the least. And it kind of makes you dread going into that establishment in the first place. So what was, what was like the original problem you wanted to solve when you co-founded WaitWell? Was it based around one of these sort of pain points?
Steve (01:50.28)
Yeah, we, we owned, as you mentioned, a motor vehicle registry in the jurisdiction that we live and constantly dealt with the stress environment for both customers and staff. And it’s an environment where tensions are high because the consequences are high. So we regularly look for some kind of a digital solution to bring the experience level to a point where the tension for the customers and the staff was more, never really found anything that was well designed for the type of business we had. And the pain at the moment wasn’t quite, at that moment wasn’t quite high enough for us to kind of venture into our own solution. But when COVID came around, the environment’s kind of stressful nature was accelerated quite significantly because now we couldn’t have people inside the location.
So with hundreds of people waiting outside, we have very inclement weather where we live. It was time to do something about that. So initially we just wanted to create a system that allowed people to very easily text their name into a line and join the queue and then wait in their vehicles or somewhere else at their leisure and have a better experience instead of one that’s stressful. And that’s how we started.
But we quickly realized that certainly after the pandemic eased, we quickly realized that there is a need for a system that’s much more nuanced in terms of how it supports multifaceted services. And we started off really looking at that problem. For example, the process of issuing a death certificate is significantly different than the process for a knowledge test. And how can you have one system, one subscription manage all those variations. And so that’s what we’ve built since and have found a pretty reasonable market for that type of solution.
Beau Hamilton (03:48.578)
Gosh, that makes sense. And it’s definitely worth highlighting, obviously, that you started in 2020 as a byproduct of the issues that the pandemic forced itself upon us and all the social distancing surrounding that. And yeah, so it’s interesting to see that you have to solve that sort of a problem, but then how you able to spiral and evolve to solve the other
Steve (04:05.268)
Yeah.
Beau Hamilton (04:17.458)
management issues once the pandemic sort of settled, I guess. Now that leads right into sort of the foundation of your approach, right? And what you’re able to to alleviate some of these issues with long wait times. What would you say is some of the core principles about maybe customer experience, staff workflow, and operational efficiency that guide your product decisions? Is there like one area that
Steve (04:19.327)
Yeah.
Steve (04:22.74)
That’s right.
Beau Hamilton (04:44.844)
Maybe he’s more important than the other, or do you, do you start with like maybe the customer experience and work, work outwards? What’s kind of the process? Yeah.
Steve (04:51.56)
We did start with the customer experience. Absolutely. Because the, want them to return and a lot of times the markets that we serve are there. They’re not there because they want to be, you know, it’s either because they’re dealing with a health situation that they’d rather not have to deal with. they have to get licensed for something permitted for something. These are not the types of services that we, we seek out for, for our own, for our own enjoyment. And.
but you still want to provide good service and treat them with the respect that they deserve. And so we absolutely started with what’s the best and most ideal customer experience. And certainly that’s one where they’re in control of where they wait. They’re in control of whether or not they’re available when the service is called for them. They can control placing themselves on hold if they are still in line getting a coffee when they’re called for service.
And so we absolutely tackled the problem first with how do you build something that’s ideal for your visitors so they come back. And from there though, the second piece of the puzzle is an operational question. It’s what do you do with the data? Like how can the data help your operation continue to make service better, but also continue to make things more efficient, more profitable, more cost effective, et cetera. And you have to…
overlay the customer experience with the operational requirements. So you have to look at it from the point of view of what’s the data that we want to capture? How does that data help us operationally? And then how do you build the customer experience in the workflow so that you’re collecting the appropriate data as you go? So you have to keep both of those two things in mind as you engineer and as you develop your solution. And then of course, the third stakeholder being staff, how do you optimize the staff you have? So for example,
Instead of having one line and the person at the front being served by the next available service agent, no one advanced what they’re all there for. Because if you know somebody is there for service A and another person is there for service B, you can triage where they need to go even before they get to the front of line. And in doing so, your staff are always dealing with the right clientele and you’re getting the most out of their skills and capabilities. And that’s what brings the stress level down and improves their experience as well.
Steve (07:12.2)
It’s definitely a three stakeholder model. All their needs need to be met, but it starts with the customer journey, followed quickly by the data and analytics requirements, and then third, making sure the staff’s experience is optimized.
Beau Hamilton (07:23.47)
So there’s definitely a few pieces of the puzzle you have to tackle. But I want to focus on the data portion, because just like with anything nowadays, especially in the AI digital age, data is power. And the more data you have about how something works, the better you’re able to, obviously, correctly address the problem and find solutions. So maybe you could talk about some of the data being used in your service. How can workflow automation and data analytics help organizations
Steve (07:39.647)
Yeah.
Beau Hamilton (07:51.65)
balance all the different sort of needs and components of their business and their service. Like, you know, I think the staff wait time, staff resources, predicting wait times and just, yeah, improve the overall service delivery.
Steve (08:04.35)
Yeah, there’s so much to unpack here, but let’s start with the… So when we piloted WaitWell in our own registry, the time to serve was the very first metric that stood out. So in the first few weeks of implementing it, the time to serve average was around 18 minutes. But we were able to analyze the staff and the variation in that. So some staff were…
higher than that and some staff were materially less than that. We had some staff that were able to do an average service of 10 minutes. So that allowed us to ask the question, well, why is there such variation? And it turned out that it was for two reasons. First was just little tips and tricks that allow the staff to be more efficient. So we observed the staff that were regularly performing service faster and what they were doing. And then we were able to replicate that with the other staff through training.
And in doing so, we brought the average serve time down to 12 minutes. And then the second thing we were able to look at is what’s causing some of the longer services. And we realized that they were unique types of requests from the client. And so we isolated a queue for those very complex type of workflows so that they wouldn’t bottleneck the other services which were more efficient. And so by doing that again, we were able to…
create a more streamlined workflow experience based on what they’re there for and based on how complex that was to make sure that the most trained, most experienced staff were always dealing with the most complicated situations and that just we were able to increase our capacity significantly because of that. So that’s an example of how the analytics really help to understand what’s happening in the organization. But from there, you got to look at
Like how long are people waiting? What days of the week are they coming in? Is there a peak in the terms of the time of day? Are certain services being aborted more than others? And so that wealth of data really just helps you make sure you’re hiring to the right level, you’re training effectively, you’re offering the right services, and you’re structuring the queues to be most optimal and efficient based on the demand for those various things. So those are some examples.
Beau Hamilton (10:23.63)
Yeah. There are so many factors to consider. So when you’re working to get the 18 minutes down to a more manageable time, wait time, is that the DMV sort of setting? So when you’re observing customers, it just a matter of spreadsheets of looking at when a customer is supposed to have an appointment time and how long it takes to actually be seen, and you’re just observing and recording that data?
Steve (10:36.01)
Yeah.
Beau Hamilton (10:53.71)
sources are you looking at?
Steve (10:56.436)
So how we know the kind of results that I described a moment ago is because we start by asking the organization, where do you want your insights to come from? Like, where do you see challenges today operationally? And they’ll say things like cancellation rates, or they’ll say things like, we’re having a hard time keeping staff because they’re constantly dealing with frustrated patrons. Or they’ll say things like, we can’t balance our schedules.
against when the demands peaks and valleys in terms of the week. And so that’s the starting point. And then we build the workflow to capture the information. So for example, somebody will join a line or make an appointment and we have structured our tickets to represent a whole range of stages. So they’ll be waiting, they’ll have different stages of waiting. They might be waiting outside, inside, they might be waiting to see a triage nurse, they might be waiting then to see a lab.
and that ticket when they join, we basically pin that to the workflow and the ticket travels as the service travels. And each time it hits a new point in the service node, we’re capturing all the pertinent details. So when did they arrive? When did they check in? When were they first seen by an agent? When were they placed back into a waiting queue before being seen by a specialist? Once they were seen by a specialist, when were they asked to go to another part of the facility to see
a consult or something like that. So the ticket follows the patron throughout all the various service nodes and we construct those service nodes based on the input from our client on what type of analytics they
Beau Hamilton (12:36.782)
Gotcha. Okay. Thanks for breaking that down. So you’re creating your own database off that ticket and kind of following it around and figuring out where the loading times are, so to speak. Now, what kind of technologies are you, I mean, you mentioned some of these already, but like predictive analytics and we haven’t mentioned AI or specifically like internet of things tech, but you know, obviously there’s a application, software application people are using. But what kind of technologies are you incorporating currently?
Steve (12:47.071)
That’s right.
Steve (12:53.962)
Hmm.
Beau Hamilton (13:07.158)
Also, at the same time, what technologies do you see coming down the pipeline where they really have the big capabilities of reshaping queue management?
Steve (13:10.665)
Yeah.
Steve (13:14.664)
Right. So personal devices still remain one of the key technologies because they’re always with the patron and they’re traveling with them. So we lean on where is that device and at what stage is the patron at in service based on them interacting with prompts that we give them through our software. So are you ready for service? Yes or no type of thing. Have you arrived at your new location? Have you checked in?
Beau Hamilton (13:22.104)
Yeah.
Steve (13:43.083)
tell us when you’re ready to check in. So the personal device is still a real key component to kind of indicating where they’re at. In addition to that, we use other hardware technologies like RFID readers and scanners through kiosks. And then we built a range of machine learning algorithms to do predictive analytics and predictive work. So that’s kind of our current technical approach is to take the power of the operating systems and the
and the technology available on personal devices combined with specialized hardware like RFID readers and scanners, and then combined with our own technology to really produce the predictive component of what we do. Where that’s going though. So AI is certainly a huge tool and a huge opportunity for queue management systems. The way we’re looking at it is, as I described, in order to really provide the insights,
you have to structure the workflow with a whole deliberate series of nodes of service nodes. And so that requires a patron, for example, to join a hospital queue and indicate what they’re there for. They have to say, well, I’m here for an EKG and I need to be seeing this doctor or something like that.
Where AI can help is to take that kind of initial wayfinding part of it out of it. So they can just say, I’m here to get an EKG. And instead of having to answer a series of questions pertaining to that in a pre-structured format, AI engines at the front of this can tell them everything they need to know. Here’s where you need to be. We’ll check you in, make sure you’re prepared with these documents. it can be instead, so it’s all based on just very simple prompts and very simple.
starting points of I’m here to do this. And that’ll streamline the experience for both the visitor and the organizations we sell to. The second piece is obviously in the analytics. So right now to mine all this data, it’s a deliberate process. You have to understand what reports you want. You have to know how to utilize those reports. There’s filtering and sort of organizing the information to generate precisely the insights you’re looking for.
Steve (15:59.775)
With AI though, you can just simply say, tell me who my top 10 service agents are and what services they perform. And we could just generate the exact report you need without having to do the pre-lifting of kind of structuring everything in advance.
Beau Hamilton (16:13.518)
Yeah. So how big of an impact would you say some of these AI advances are going to have on your business and managing cues and whatnot? I mean, I don’t know if you can kind of liken it to maybe some of the previous predictive analytics technologies you were using maybe just back in 2020, some of the hardware data points, but I don’t know, how big does AI make a splash here?
Steve (16:37.609)
Yeah.
Steve (16:42.222)
I think it’s going to be very material because one of the challenges that our industry faces is that technology adoption is still not completely ubiquitous. We’ll have visitors to a DMV that might be either elderly or not quite as technically proficient as you might have built the systems to kind of anticipate.
And as a result, there’s still a lot of need to build specialized hardware and ticket printing and that sort of thing. So the bookends are people who are a hundred percent digital and those who still resist cell phone technology. And so when you’re trying to create highly efficient service operations that have robust data analytics with user bookends that are that far apart, it’s a very limiting reality to a lot of our customers.
when it comes to adopting technology. And so I think what AI does is it can take away the user apprehension in dealing with this type of a service or this type of a system. Because if it can be just as simple as I’m here for this and AI can walk you through the process and take away the stress of it, it’s going to vastly improve adoption. And then I think on the operating side of things,
Beau Hamilton (18:04.92)
Very interesting.
Steve (18:09.298)
you know, the degree to which analytics can be simple to acquire and highly relevant to the query really empowers the organization to do what they are hopeful to be able to do once they have the information. But when it’s an overwhelming and somewhat daunting process to mine all the information, to know the questions to ask, to know how to structure the reports,
and then to do something with that information. When that becomes such a burden or an overwhelming task, it really leaves them with all this great data, but no real path forward with it. So I think when AI can really streamline that and start to be more predictive, like for example, your staff scheduling for this week does not align with the demand that’s been historically observed for this month. Here’s a recommendation for how you might want to staff that.
When technology can take the burden of connecting the two dots away from the operators, then it’s going to be more easy for them to implement the value of that information.
Beau Hamilton (19:12.366)
Hmm. Yeah. It’s all about making it more efficient. And also I can imagine it just helping scale with different industries you work with because every industry, you know, needs a different set of solutions. And yeah, so you got to know you have to work to help alleviate their issues, but also for your business, it helps you scale, right? What challenges have you encountered scaling weight well across the different industries you work in, whether it’s like healthcare, retail, government, how do you adapt?
Steve (19:32.084)
Hmm.
Beau Hamilton (19:41.474)
the platform for those differences.
Steve (19:44.255)
Right. So often the challenge is dealing with the broad range of comfort levels the patrons of our customers have with technology. we have to have, and so the way that we address that is by using a very omni-channel pathway into the actual technology. So for example, certain people have no problems using their mobile device. They’ll…
scan QR codes, they’ll find websites, they’ll download apps, and they’re completely comfortable in the digital space. Whereas others will resist that and much prefer the analog space. And so you have to have kiosks, you have to have websites, you have to have apps, have to have mobile phones, have to have signage, have to have all, you have to have your bases covered in terms of all the ways that people might want to engage with the system. But certainly when
When you deal with such a vast range of potential users, it’s a huge challenge for our customers to, from a cost point of view, but also from a, how do you standardize the experience for everybody when there’s such a range of comfort levels.
Beau Hamilton (20:59.66)
Yeah, I can, I’ve experienced that firsthand and I’m sure many listeners have as well where, I was getting blood work done recently, I guess a few months ago now. And, there’s a large, company came in and bought out a bunch of the regional, clinics where they offered blood draws and, the transition was very rocky. mean, you had, I was waiting in line. There was just like a packed lobby, a bunch of frustrated customers of all various ages. it almost seemed like.
Steve (21:15.945)
you
Beau Hamilton (21:27.398)
A lot of them were older too, and they had to deal with this new checking system where it’s all on a tablet and they barely had any sort of proficiency using technology. So they were getting frustrated. And then the, once in while, the staff would come out, call people in and they were getting yelled at and they, could just see in the look on their face how frustrated they are. So having to deal with that and having to deal with again, the, the different tech proficiencies of customers. I mean,
Steve (21:47.498)
Absolutely.
Beau Hamilton (21:57.174)
I’m worse. We’re such a bubble. I feel like I’m so kind of addicted to technology in so many ways. I’ve integrated it. Like I can’t imagine not having just a basic smartphone to connect with apps and services these days, but a lot of the population doesn’t. So you have to keep in mind and work with those, that, that portion of the population, of course. So,
Steve (22:02.046)
Hmm.
Steve (22:07.583)
Hmm.
Steve (22:16.424)
Right. See, and that brings back the value that AI can bring because when you see somebody who’s less technical struggle with a kiosk, it’s because somebody has tried to imagine how do you best present the various questions they have to interact with so that the service can flow as needed in the digital space, but how do you best present that to them?
Beau Hamilton (22:21.891)
Yeah.
Steve (22:45.0)
so that it’s easy for them and still functional for the organization. And if you get that wrong, because you’re a, like, so how do you build one thing that fits for all the types of people out of there and all those different services they can be there for? So you might’ve been getting blood work done, but somebody else might’ve been getting, you know, different tests that require different questions. And so, you know, there’s this process of, I’m here for this, but there’s 10 things I have to choose from.
Beau Hamilton (23:09.133)
Mm-hmm.
Steve (23:14.708)
What if I picked the wrong one? Now I got it back out. How do I do that on a kiosk? And now I’m stressed because there’s 10 people waiting for me. I keep making mistakes. Then I’m trying to call for help and now I’m frustrated with the system. And it’s all because that front end experience has to try and encapsulate within it all the range of things that people could be there for and the different comfort levels they have with technology. But if instead AI can just simply ask a question, what are you here for? And
because it knows all the various services, all the different, it’s know, LLM technology behind it, it can present exactly what that visitor needs to do in order to get in line and to follow the services. And they don’t have to way find through all the massive menu options. So that brings down the temperature in these types of multimodal environments.
Beau Hamilton (24:05.026)
Definitely, and if it’s able to tap into maybe someone’s, you know, my chart or previous kind of appointments and maybe their medicines they’re taking and conditions and whatnot, if it’s in a healthcare situation, it’s able to offer better feedback, better responses that are more tailored to the customer.
Steve (24:22.858)
Yeah, and you know, we can get further into the healthcare space because you know, some of the challenges that our industry faces there is, you know, being comfortable that a person doesn’t have to be sitting in a lobby designed for 20 people so that they can be seen in an urgent care facility. know, certain types of symptoms, of course, are of concern. You don’t want them to grow. But for
Beau Hamilton (24:50.072)
Right.
Steve (24:52.308)
The vast majority of people who are there, that’s not the case. And there’s no need to have hundreds and hundreds of people waiting in an urgent care facility for six, seven, eight, 10 hours when they can absolutely be working or waiting from home in the comfort of their home and keeping the facilities themselves at a much more appropriate level of people. in order to, in order to, and technology exists, we can solve that problem today.
But the comfort level with the healthcare institutions to allow for people to wait from home, that’s what needs to change. So there’s a lot of internal comfort that has to be addressed with technology and what it mean for these institutions. So it’s a big barrier, how we get them to be more comfortable in adopting of these technologies. That’s a great question. A lot of it is just comfort level that it’s here to stay and it’s the right.
path forward for the patients.
Beau Hamilton (25:51.82)
Yeah, you mentioned some of the barriers from the customer standpoint and with staff. I had a clinic, for example, in the healthcare industry, but I’m curious if there’s other factors that you’re aware of in regards to compliance and with the different industries, but as well as the different maybe countries you operate in.
Steve (26:11.241)
you.
Beau Hamilton (26:14.028)
Yeah, I broadly speaking, like, how do you see changes in regulation, maybe privacy and data security laws shape the future of this space, the future of queue management?
Steve (26:22.792)
Yeah. So it’s, it’s even in the five years that we’ve been operating, there’s been material change in this space. There’s a lot of technology that’s making it much more convenient for organizations like ours to deal with the broad range of compliance regulation or security regulation. But, it’s changed a lot. And so, you know, I sort of see two things with that. One is
You know, as we talked about a lot of the change that has to happen for organizations to better embrace this type of technology is just a comfort level one. Like we need to change how we do things and I need to be more comfortable that we can change and everything will be all right. And I think as the security space and the regulatory space continues to be more mature, it presents that comfort level because organizations like ours have to demonstrate
on a wide range of things, how we deal with private information, how we safeguard that, how we build redundancy into our architectures, how we’re monitoring security 24 seven, how we respond to incidents. We have to be extremely rigorous in those regulatory requirements. And as a result, people can have a little bit better time trusting that it’s going to be in their comfort zone.
So I’m optimistic that all this change and all this rigor will lead to more trust of these types of solutions. But I also think that same goes for patrons. So a lot of times if, you know, they’re being asked questions that are of a personal nature, there’s always a resistance because where’s my information going? so we’re, know, technologies like ours are a lot better at giving them their reassurances, allowing them to access their own information, allowing them to make requests to
deal with information that they don’t want stored. So they have a lot more control over how their PI is utilized and where it’s stored and what they can do with it. And so because we’re introducing more assurances, think comfort levels will increase and adoption will increase.
Beau Hamilton (28:38.04)
That makes sense. I think that’s a good answer. was, I was going to say like the, can see how some maybe look at some data privacy laws as potentially a barrier for some businesses, but at the same time, you look at the bigger picture and you see how they’re able to help prevent future data breaches, for example, or help competitors play by the same set of rules. And then it also typically follows the comfort level, right? When you, when you customers get more comfortable and, and, a service or, like AI, for example, is more integrated.
the regulations naturally kind of follow, I suppose. But yeah, that’s a good answer. I’m just curious to keep diving into that some more. What are some of the challenges, and whether that’s maybe technical, human, or organizational, what challenges do you see holding back the industry and maybe getting in the way of truly smooth, seamless queue management?
Steve (29:36.072)
I think most of it is just the evolution of the operating environment itself. Like the technology is…
is not the, like, it’s not a technical hurdle, right? The technology exists today to revolutionize how service is done, but it’s a comfort level with adapting how the organization works. So for example, we’re seeing a lot of movement in service organizations trying to deploy multiple channels of doing service. So it’s not just in person, it can be over the phone, it can be over video conferencing.
And there’s always some hesitancy to doing that because like we have to change how we do things. Like, so I’m used to people always coming to a counter for service or to my office for service. And now I have to kind of interact. have to insert a technical component so that I can reach the visitor where they are. And it’s an operational change. It’s a comfort level with technology on the part of the service delivery agent. And the faster technology can be easier to use, the quicker we’ll make them more comfortable.
inserting these different technical aids in what they do. But that’s primarily what it is. It’s just the adoption cycle and people being comfortable to adopt that. I think the users are there. I think the patrons of these systems by and large are ready to embrace that because who doesn’t want the convenience of waiting from home or in their vehicle or not having to stand in a line? And I think operators sometimes
have to evolve the way that they are prepared to build their workflows and to work and it’s changing rapidly though we’re definitely seeing seeing the the speed with which adoption is occurring has grown for sure.
Beau Hamilton (31:26.126)
Well, especially when you look at, I mean, 2020 and the pandemic, it pushed us forward maybe 10 plus years technologically, it kind of forced all these remote applications and Zoom calls and sooner than maybe they would have happened naturally, right? Just with the situation. And one example of that is, again, with the healthcare industry, which I know very well, is just meeting with my doctor and my healthcare team just like remotely.
and they offer that as a service. I always take advantage of it. I don’t have to drive anywhere. It’s way more efficient for me. I’m used to it. Just working remote. but you know, it is, you could, they obviously still have to offer the in-person meetings for maybe some of the, the older clientele or just people who, know, if you, if depending on your, your treatment, you know, your issues that are going on, you might need an in-person visit as well, but, just continuing to offer kind of more solutions that.
appeal to more of the different comfort levels is what it’s all about, I suppose.
Steve (32:30.388)
and there are plenty of scenarios where for whatever the reason, the patron is unable to make it on location. And so why should service have to wait until they’re, whatever constraints they are facing that can’t be dealt with to prevent them from going into an office? Why wait? We can just do the service wherever they are. But…
Beau Hamilton (32:38.787)
true.
Steve (32:56.65)
But yeah, I think that’s the key is once the adoption kind of just reaches critical mass, we’re going to see the industry rapidly change. Maybe just to touch quickly on like in-person, like, you know, I get asked a lot, do you see a…
Do you see a point in time in the not too distant future where nobody is doing in-person service anymore and everything is just purely automated and purely dealt with through technology? And I personally don’t see that. I think there’s always a need for in-person service. There’s plenty of reasons for that. Sometimes service is really complex, whether it’s a DMV, whether it’s your health practitioners, you just need that one-to-one interaction where you’re able to adapt on the fly to whatever challenges have.
that brought them there. And so I don’t imagine a future anytime soon where we’re not doing any in-person service, but it has to be augmented with other mediums. And technology is here to help with that and it’ll make everybody’s lives more efficient and improve costs and service levels. So that’s what’s changing. That’s probably the first stage of things. And then…
Incorporating the digital with the in-person is also what’s changing a lot. So there’s no need to stand around and wait. We’ll let you know when it’s time. You can take care of all the prep work ahead of time for service while you’re waiting. kind of like all the paperwork, all the prep work, all the even payments, all that can be dealt with ahead of time while people are waiting. And that just vastly streamlines what happens operationally. So those are the two big changes that we see.
Beau Hamilton (34:33.934)
100%. Yeah. There’s definitely some processes that just definitely can be more streamlined and then make sense for remote applications. But others don’t. I think that having that balance and just having the option again of meeting in person, think that’s something that, you know, especially it stands out in the education sector with all these like being all these tools allowing pretty much anyone to learn anything they want, essentially just from your web browser.
Um, you know, it kind of, it, it alleviated, it makes it replaces sort of the typical kind of school scenario, um, where you go in eight to eight to five or whatever it is to sit down and learn in a classroom. But at the same time, there’s so many other components necessary for, for, uh, human, human learning, where you need that social dynamic. And I think that also applies to various workplaces, like in the healthcare setting. I think you truly know your patient well from a doctor’s standpoint, you need to see them.
in person sometimes and get a feel for their symptoms, how they express themselves. Maybe, you know, also like if they’re in pain, for example, that’s another area that’s hard to fully understand and sympathize with over the phone or over a video chat. Now for those listening in the industry who want to, you know, increase, improve their wait times, I’m just maybe you can summarize some of the points you made earlier, but
What advice would you give to these leaders, these industry professionals who want to make queues not just shorter, but smarter, essentially turning waiting into an advantage both for the customer and for their staff?
Steve (36:13.726)
Yeah, I think kind of two points to that. The first is, you know, analyze your business in terms of where are you seeing, like you might not know why, but analyze where you’re seeing inefficiencies. like are you over staffing and are you not sure if you’re over staffing or not? Are you, are you unsure about how many services you should offer? How many appointments should you open up when you’re, when you’re doing scheduling and booking? So where do you, where do you identify these, these big question marks in terms of your operations?
and map that, say that’s what I want to understand. And then build the service workflow such that we can get the data necessary to help you answer those questions. So a lot of times we’ll see people build the workflow in the opposite direction. They’ll say, well, we offer these services and we want these people to do the services, let’s build it that way. And then afterwards it’s like, well, did you get any useful information? Well, no, well, that’s because we didn’t ask the right questions, we didn’t structure the workflows to…
produce the results you’re looking for from the data side of things. So that’s the first thing is really know the challenge areas in your business and then build the workflow in accordance with the data requirements there. And then the second is take advantage of the fact that they don’t need to be in person speaking with your service staff to do all the preparation. So deal with the preparation through automated means. use waivers, use forms.
collect the appropriate documentation, utilize the communication engines that exist to really convey what they need to be ready with and deal with that all ahead of time. They’re waiting anyway. If they booked up an appointment a few days in advance, use all that time efficiently and structure your workflows so that all the prep work and all the information you need to capture ahead of time is done so that the service itself is fast, efficient and more pleasant.
Beau Hamilton (38:11.022)
It’s a great way to phrase it. Yeah. Cause I feel like some businesses, industries are going to suffer from long wait times just because maybe the supply and demand problem. But if you take some of that dead, uh, dead time into use and turn it into useful time for customers, um, it’s a win-win, you know, join, join virtual cues. Uh, maybe they can run errands while they wait or just relax knowing that they’re in, they, they are registered, they’re checked in. It’s just a matter of waiting until their number is called little things like that. Really.
Steve (38:19.082)
Mm-hmm.
Steve (38:30.664)
Yeah.
Beau Hamilton (38:39.662)
really help. Okay, so this ties sort of ties into the next question I have for you about maybe the industry you operated in or you operate in. So what’s a common misconception you would say about your industry that you wish more people understood? Is there anything that comes to mind?
Steve (38:56.286)
A lot of people think it’s a, yeah, the main one that comes to mind is that there’s a built-in assumption that it’s just a replacement for ticket printing. So we’ve all had the experience about going to a passport office or a DMV where there’s a physical ticket that you would grab, you’d sit down and wait for that number to call. And that’s certainly a part of the solution is to know when they’re there and let them know when it’s their turn. But a workflow involves
Beau Hamilton (39:04.558)
Mm.
Steve (39:26.73)
approvals, escalations, it’s different by service type. Some services are short, some services are long. There’s payment involved sometimes. And there’s also a vast array of data that is available as a result of digitizing that service. And that data helps make everybody’s lives better. And that’s the key thing is that if you’re digitizing the experience, you can now make use of that information, that digital information, and be better at what you do.
And so it’s not just a ticket printing substitute, it’s an operational efficiency tool and one that provides better experience for all the stakeholders involved.
Beau Hamilton (40:08.098)
I think it’s, it’s kind of amusing to see when I, when I encounter a business still using the ticket method. cause it just seemed kind of like a relic of the past, you know? I actually just experienced that about a week ago up at the North Cascades. I was at a national park, office outpost to get a permit. And right when I showed up six AM, when they opened up, just take a ticket, wait in line, wait outside. There’s a few people waiting out there. and just had a way to be called. And I haven’t really experienced that. I mean, you get that a lot in kind of the, some of the government.
Steve (40:28.553)
Yeah.
Beau Hamilton (40:38.062)
services, but I don’t even see that as much anymore with the DMV. I feel like it’s gotten more streamlined and modernized. Thanks for dispelling that misconception. Now, along the same lines as the previous question, I’m curious about what you might change. If you could change one thing about how your industry operates, what would that be and why?
Steve (40:50.898)
Yeah.
Steve (41:02.088)
Yeah, great question.
Yeah.
Beau Hamilton (41:10.956)
I know it’s like a lot to put on. It’s a big question. So I, there’s probably a bunch of things you’d want to change. So if there’s anything that comes to mind.
Steve (41:17.352)
Yeah, I’m just trying to unpack the best way to deal with that. Yeah, you know, it’s, it’s at some point, you know, we talked a lot about the, you know, let’s call it a digital divide between those who are extremely comfortable with technology and those that really do struggle with it. When we try to meet the needs of all those folks, it really produces a complicated procurement situation and implementation is expensive and they don’t ultimately get the best of the
Beau Hamilton (41:20.408)
Mm-hmm.
Steve (41:45.727)
technical results. So, you know, I think at some point we have to adapt, like, like, like kind of require people to adapt, you know, if you if we continue to kind of arrange ourselves to deal with the most laggard end of the technical spectrum, we’ll never be able to move forward at the rate that’s possible. And so at some point, we have to be willing to still find other ways to support, but we can’t like, like,
inhibit the technical side of things because of that. Given that when you do the right things from a technical point of view, it can produce the kind of results that everybody will benefit from. Taxpayers would benefit, healthcare practitioners would benefit, those of us wanting service would benefit. There’s so much more benefit that can be experienced if we just fully adapted to a pure digital approach to this stuff. And at some point, I think we’re just gonna have to accept that and embrace the technology.
And for those patrons who that kind of leaves for lacking, we just have to find other ways to support them. But to inhibit the technical journey that can really make our lives better is continuing to be a challenge that I think at some point we’re gonna have to overcome.
Beau Hamilton (43:06.414)
Yeah. If you’re, if there’s clearly a better way of doing something, why wouldn’t you do it? You know? And if there’s a, and the thing is it just comes down to maybe the learning curve associated with it. But I think, uh, I think you could definitely make the argument that it’s for, it’s for the best. mean, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve just sat down with, with my, uh, some family members. And I’m always like the tech support guy when it comes to these like holiday dinners and whatnot. And I’m just having to show them how to, you know, work seemingly basic functions of a phone and how.
Steve (43:10.324)
Yeah.
Steve (43:16.189)
Yeah.
Steve (43:29.47)
Yeah.
Beau Hamilton (43:36.514)
you know, menus of an app and how they’re, pretty, you know, they’re pretty universal. Generally speaking, you, you eyes to generally have pretty universal themes and elements. So if you just learn the basic understanding, sit down with it, learn it, you’re going to be set yourself up for success in the future. So, think articulating that and communicating that is, is big. okay. Now I’ve got a couple, more last final person, more personal questions, to put you on the spot. So, apologies in advance.
But you’ve obviously, so you’ve been in the industry working for quite some time. And as with anyone, you know, starting a business who has a business, I’m sure you’ve suffered, you know, some setbacks, failures, just challenging times, right? And I think the fact that your company started in 2020 sort of speaks for itself, at least with the challenging times of that time. So Steve, how have you handled setbacks and failures over the years and what advice would you give to others facing similar challenges?
Steve (44:35.882)
Yeah, well, for us, we have worked really hard to implement a learning culture. And so we don’t see setback or failure as negative. The outcome is not what you thought. when you didn’t see, when, you know, typically when we say we failed, it’s because we didn’t achieve an outcome that we were aiming for. Or if you have a setback, it’s because maybe the timing element or the degree to which we’ve achieved something isn’t as significant as we were hoping for. But really those are just opportunities to learn.
And so our attitude and our mindset has always been lean into that. It’s not a problem. It’s not a negative. If we take the important lesson from it all and adapt quickly, that’s what matters. We’ll get there, but it can’t happen overnight and it’s not gonna happen without a few stumbles along the way. And so we’ve never looked at failures and setbacks in any negative way. It’s always just been a lesson.
the quicker you adapt and apply those lessons, the faster you are on the path you were aiming for. so it’s, you know, and that’s the culture we have. nobody has ever, there’s no punitive activity that goes on for anybody who’s made a mistake, who’s not hit a number, who’s not achieved the goal they set out for. The only question asked is what did you learn and how are we going to apply that learning? And because that’s been our attitude right from day one, yeah, we’ve never responded with any kind of, you know,
disappointment or stress pertaining to our setbacks and our failures. We just look forward to making it better next time.
Beau Hamilton (46:12.022)
that’s great. I resonate with that very, very well. think that is the best time to learn and kind of force yourself to pivot a little bit too, right? Just based off the circumstances. And then last but not least, for those aspiring to step into maybe a leadership role for themselves, are there any qualities that come to mind that you think are really essential for someone aspiring to be a leader in today’s crazy competitive business world?
Steve (46:36.722)
Yeah. Yeah. You have to be very adaptable, especially today, more so than maybe any other time. Things change, really quickly. Every time you think you’ve got something sorted out, likely something’s changed. And so you can never, stay flat footed. You have to always be ready to pivot and adapt and constantly be curious about what’s going on. if you’re starting to find yourself in a position of being very, very comfortable,
You likely need to turn up your curiosity a little bit more because there’s probably something you’re not seeing. And one of my favorite quotes is that it’s the punch you don’t see that knocks you out. And so you had better stay vigilant in keeping your eye on what’s going on, stay curious and be ready to adapt at all times. I think that’s probably the most important thing, which I’d closely couple to just, you know, continue to have the courage to pursue the changes that you see are necessary and that you
have a vision for where you want to go and stay resolved in that endeavor.
Beau Hamilton (47:39.342)
The punch you don’t see that knocks you out. think that’s, I’m gonna write that down. That’s great. Well, thank you. Thank you all for the insights. I really do appreciate it. And I think, yeah, I resonate with a lot of everything you said, especially some of these thought leadership kind of advice that you shared. So I appreciate that. And I wanna circle around to WaitWell. If there’s anyone listening who wants to learn more about WaitWell, maybe get in touch with your team, where should they go?
Steve (47:41.15)
Yeah. Yeah.
Steve (48:05.02)
Our website is perfect for that type of thing. It’s waitwellsoftware.com, spelled just as it sounds. And you’ll find everything you need about the organization. You’ll be able to reach out to us directly through that medium. There’s all kinds of videos, case studies, tells you everything you need to know about our solution and what we’re all about. So that’s waitwellsoftware.com.
Beau Hamilton (48:27.278)
weightwellsoftware.com. Fantastic. All right. Thank you so much. That’s Steve Vander Meulen, co-founder and CEO of WaitWell. Thanks again for everything you shared. really appreciate it.
Steve (48:36.66)
Thanks for having me.
Beau Hamilton (48:38.222)
Thank you all for listening to the SourceForge Podcast. I’m your host, Beau Hamilton. Make sure to subscribe to stay up to date with all of our upcoming B2B software related podcasts. I will talk to you in the next one.