Dungeon Crawl Reference

Closing, see
http://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:interface

While I'm opposed to 2, I just realized those who don't inscribe (a
conscious decision) won't be hit with that confusing interface. It's like
with vi -- I consider using it masochism, but if you like it, go ahead!

The new version of 3 looks just great. Having it write "No arrows" so you
have to press ( to quiver those darts is a damn good idea!

Okay, 1 needs more thought. 2 would help me, but perhaps not too many
others. Here is a revised proposal for 3 after discussion on c-r-d. I think
this one should go in as soon as possible:

new 3)
* Wielding a launcher immediately switches to fitting ammunition. If none
is available, show "No fitting ammunition.", red in the Qv line. [1]
* If you wield a launcher and have fitting ammunition, cycling only cycles
among fitting ammunition.
* If you fire the last fitting piece of ammunition, show "No more fitting
ammunition.", red in the Qv line.
* If you get "No (more) fitting ammunition.", then cycling will cycle
between launcer-less ammunition.
* If you run out of a type of launcher-less ammunition (by firing the last
one), then only other ammunition of the same type will be autoquivered.
E.g. if you are throwing large rocks and you run out of your +1 rocks then
(no matter what you wield), +0 rocks would be autoquivered, but stones
would not. (X)
* If you wield a weapon, that will never be autoquivered. If you want to
fire it, use F.

The only drawback of this proposal, as far as I can see, that it's harder
to randomly throw all the stuff you have collected at the enemy (e.g.
stones, darts, etc.) because you would need more. We might skip (X) here
although that does not help against throwing the butchering tool. Another
option would be to inscribe the autopickedup butchering tool with {!f}.

[1] This line might be better as "No arrows." / "No bolts." etc. Same with
"No more arrows." etc.

I am not saying that 2) solves all interface issues for hunters. But it
would make my game much easier, and hopefully that of others, too. So
again:

2: If you have a launcher inscribed with #f and you are not wielding it
[1], then 'f' will wield that launcher and go into firing interface. If you
are wielding the launcher and there are monsters in sight, 'f' will fire as
normal. If you are wielding the launcher and there are no monsters in
sight, 'f' will wield the thing you used before the launcher.
[1] Slightly better: only swap to the launcher with #f if you are not
currently wielding a launcher. This would make the 'fff' combo also
available if you, for example, use your bow for most attacks (inscribed
with #f) and sometimes a blowgun.

I know about the ' key but it's clumsy for me.

jpeg: The point is that some players want to automate picking up preferred
ammunition (e.g. all the arrows shot by the centaur on D:5). As we see,
it's not so easy to do this: you may not want all the arrows only because
you carry around some randart bow, to be tested later (hence the skill
check). And you may not want 1200 arrows (hence the cap).

It may be that there is no good solution and only 3) clearly improves
matters.

Since the bow damage is small, in most cases you use it to weaken hard
enemies, then, assuming you won't blink, you switch to your melee weapon.
Idea 2. doesn't provide any means to do so. It is also confusing since
when the quiver shows that dart of dispersal, you'd expect 'f' to throw it
instead of wasting two turns and firing an arrow you can't control.

I'd instead do something to teach people about the ' key.

Did you leave something out of your description? Nowhere does it mention
that f is supposed to behave differently if there are no monsters in view,
and I also don't understand what your range comment refers to.

As for skill dependent item pickup, I've got trouble following you. You
might pick up stones for one of four reasons:
a) Sandblast, already handled
b) killing jellies, always interesting, no skill limit
c) firing stones via sling, launcher in inventory
d) as main throwing weapon (instead of e.g. darts)

Even for d) I'm not entirely sure a skill limit makes sense.

jpeg: pressing 'f' only unwields the bow if there is no monster in sight!
So the ideal sequence is this:

[players walks along, banana in hand]
[player spots an ogre -- banana will not do]
f
[player now wields bow]
ff
[players shoots arrow at ogre]
ff ff
[some more arrows, ogre is dead]
f
[wields banana again, assuming no other monster is in sight -- if there
was a monster in sight, f would start targeting, of course]

This *is* overloading the 'f' command, but with a good result, I hope.
Also, it has to be enabled by the player. Something like the {#f}
inscription is necessary because a player may carry several launchers (I
often have bow and blowgun) and then f wouldn't know which to wield.

On 3) I agree.

On 4) Okay, perhaps the cap is the better idea after all. But skill should
matter: I don't want every character to pick up 100 stones. It's easier for
launcher ammunition.

2) doesn't make sense. You press f to wield your bow, okay. Then when you
press f instead of firing your arrows you switch back to your weapon?
Surely that's not what you meant.

To 3) I've got the addition that you do start cycling between throwing
ammunition once you have no more ammo matching the launcher. (This should
mean that you automatically cycle throwing ammo if you're wielding a
nonlauncher.)

As for 1), I don't know if a minimum skill makes sense. If you carry the
given launcher that's a sure sign you want the ammo (and if you don't have
the launcher yet, your skill will be below the limit anyway). I'd rather
use stone:100 as an upper limit of total items of that type in your
inventory.

4) Yes, that's an older bug that really should be fixed sometime.

Lemuel: that's a good idea.

Also, it occurred to me that there is a point where you don't want
additional stones anymore. So perhaps there should be an option to cap
total ammo?

I would eliminate the level restriction and just make it autopickup
projectiles for anything you can launch.

Launcherless items are probably a different story.

Thirded.

ogaz

Forgot to add that default for range should be 3 or so.

Yes.