Looks all good.

What parts of the current YAML spec are viewed as especially irksome (I'm talking about the content and not its presentation :-)?

We already stripped away some troublesome "least common denominator" types and the Unicode line break handling. What's next?

I think folded scalars were mentioned at some point (I'm ambivalent about that).

Tags? Nobody really uses them, and we could clean up the stream definition and some nasty syntax edge cases if we re-worked them...

I added GoodParts and a BadParts Wiki pages for people to add their un/favorites into...

Have fun,

    Oren Ben-Kiki

On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 9:47 PM, Ingy dot Net <ingy@ingy.net> wrote:
Hi Gang,

I wanted to tell you about a bold initiative that I started this week. I call it YAML2.

The idea is that it is time to start up a new wave of YAML development, while not disturbing the YAML toolchains that are in common use. YAML is fairly usable and has no big fires to put out. Development of the language has been fairly dormant. The Open Source world is so much bigger and rich with tools and social systems. The YAML world we set out to create 10 years ago, has barely reached the vision we dreamed of. Today, YAML is the language of choice for simple config files, and dumping objects to readable text. We thought it would be so much more. Serial processing of infinite streams, realtime object messaging between multiple languages, YPath, YSchema (and the rest of the stuff we could do better than XML) comes to mind. I'd like to see books on a YAML world that is deserving of books.

My idea is to start a new community driven process with all these big goals in mind, without disturbing the YAML user base in the process. When we started out 10 years ago we had 3 people on a mailing list trying to agree on a spec, and finally producing a tome that is very hard for mortals to read, let alone implement. We ended up with a handful of languages implementing things with very different APIs, and bugs from differing interpretations of edge cases. On the other had, YAML is a real success! We got something huge off the ground. We have a well defined language, some decent implementations, a ton of experience and a great community. It's a perfect foundation for Round 2.

So what is YAML2 about?

* It's about producing a YAML 2.0 that is mostly a simplification of YAML 1.2.
* It's about NOT doing this "Spec First".
* It's about having a common test suite that defines the language.
* It's about having matching-API, full-stack implementations in all the languages that support JSON.
* It's about having a common YAML grammar that these implementations work from.
* It's about starting YPath and YSchema and YTransform things implementations from the beginning.
* It's about doing everything on GitHub and Wiki so that everyone can drive the process, and so that nobody bottlenecks it.
* It's about writing a community book on YAML from the start.

Most importantly it's about us all doing this together, and having the results (when they are stable) replace the current YAML stuffs. I decided to get this started because I feel strongly that it's the right time, and I've never been afraid to JFDI. The idea came upon me a couple days ago, spurred by recent activity of YPath, an offline spec email, and recent completions of cross-langauge parsing and testing frameworks I've been working on (Pegex and TestML).

I put together some YAML2 basics, but didn't want to go any further without inviting everyone in the community to join in. I created a "yaml2" GitHub organization, and started forking YAML related repos into it. Everyone is welcome to join in. I started a #yaml2 irc channel on freenode, and got yaml2.org just in case we need it later. Most importantly I started a GitHub wiki on a repository called YAML2. This wiki is itself a git repo so you can clone, edit and push to it.


There's much more I have to say but I'd rather not do it on the mailing list. That's so YAML1 ;) So I'll put that all on the wiki. I think it's fine to discuss the meta idea of YAML2 here, but let's keep the specifics in wiki, tests and code.

Cheers, Ingy

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