#267 Can you add to the Traditional Chinese to Simplified Chinese and Traditional Chinese to Simplified Chinese function?

PFE
closed
gnosygnu
2.8.1
2015-08-03
2013-12-02
Anonymous
No

Can you add to the Traditional Chinese to Simplified Chinese and Traditional Chinese to Simplified Chinese function?
For example http://zh.wikiquote.org/wiki/Wikiquote:%E9%A6%96%E9%A1%B5

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Discussion

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  • Anonymous
    2013-12-02

    image1
    image2

     
  • gnosygnu
    gnosygnu
    2013-12-03

    • labels: Chinese, function --> variants, lang
    • status: new --> pfe
    • Expected release: 0.12.0 --> 1.1.*
     
  • gnosygnu
    gnosygnu
    2013-12-03

    Thanks for the screenshots. They were very helpful.

    XOWA doesn't implement variants now. I've looked at the MediaWiki code, and it looks like I have to hook into at least a few places.

    I'll try to look at it next month, but it may be longer. Could you give me an idea of how important this is?

     

  • Anonymous
    2013-12-04

     
  • gnosygnu
    gnosygnu
    2013-12-05

    Thanks for the links.

    The first link specifies the NoteTA extension. I have some of it implemented, but the rest will be more difficult. Again, I'm thinking of a timeframe in January - March: after I get images for Chinese done.

    The second link didn't seem relevant. It's about a product called Dr. Chinese Language (?) that does translations. (at least according to translate.google.com). I don't think translations are needed: they are already in the wikitext.

     

  • Anonymous
    2013-12-06

    I want to let you know about word processing it, and a lot of text belongs to the CJK Extension B,CJK ExtensionC CJK and Extension D, many font does not support. This software belong to different coding region with different fonts to represent. And the best adding custom variant table and conversion between simplified Chinese and traditional Chinese custom table.
    http://www.unicode.org/charts/
    CJK Unified Ideographs (Han)

     
    • gnosygnu
      gnosygnu
      2013-12-07

      Ok. Thanks for the explanation.

      I think I understand that this software helps in converting between the different Chinese fonts. Is this something that XOWA is supposed to do? Wikipedia gets by without this software, so I'm assuming XOWA can too....

       

  • Anonymous
    2013-12-06

    There are search, should support through search in simplified and traditional. Search according to the input content search, then a simplified Chinese search, then into the traditional Chinese search, finally combine the search results.

     
    • gnosygnu
      gnosygnu
      2013-12-07

      Ughh... Are you saying that Chinese Wikipedia's Special:Search...

      • Searches first with Simplified
      • Searches again with Traditional
      • And then combines the two?

      Shouldn't it just use the user's current variant language?

       

  • Anonymous
    2013-12-06

    Test your font support this text does not

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  • Anonymous
    2013-12-06

    May support in win7 or win8, but the default is not supported in Win XP

     
    • gnosygnu
      gnosygnu
      2013-12-07

      Thanks. They didn't show in Windows XP by default, but they did after I installed the Microsoft YaHei fonts. See attached screenshot.

      Don't know how this relates to the above though....

       
      Attachments

  • Anonymous
    2013-12-07

     
    • gnosygnu
      gnosygnu
      2013-12-07

      Ok. Thanks for the link.

      translate.google.com tells me this:

      If the title of the entry or expansion of the body using Unicode characters, please add the following template:
      
          {{CJK-New-Char}} displays
          Note: This page contains Unicode version with words. Characters may be wrong about the display , see Unicode extended characters.
      

      So, I'm guessing that certain fonts don't show correctly. Isn't this the user's responsibility? Shouldn't they install the needed fonts on their machine?

       

  • Anonymous
    2013-12-07

    But if you do not add these features, there are some Chinese Wikipedia page (http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:%E4%BD%BF%E7%94%A8Unicode%E6%89%A9%E5%B1%95%E6%B1%89%E5%AD%97%E7%9A%84%E6%9D%A1%E7%9B%AE) does not display properly, which is the browser's capabilities.

     

  • Anonymous
    2013-12-07

    xowa wiki is not only functional, as well as the browser's capabilities.

     
    Last edit: Anonymous 2013-12-07

  • Anonymous
    2013-12-07

    But xowa not know what font to show that he does not support these words often used to display fonts, although the user has installed fonts support these characters. If you need to install the font as the default font, which requires modifying the registry, few users.

     
    Last edit: Anonymous 2013-12-07
  • gnosygnu
    gnosygnu
    2013-12-07

    Hmmm... But what do these users do when they visit Wikipedia? I would guess that they don't have the font installed, and wouldn't read the articles either. Or does Chrome / Internet Explorer / something else do something differently?


    嗯...但这些用户做什么,当他们访问维基百科?我猜想,他们没有安装该字体,并不会读的文章要么。还是镀铬/ IE浏览器/其它的东西做一些不同的事情?

     

  • Anonymous
    2013-12-07

    Like win8 (IE11) in their call to the different fonts to display the default font can not display it, this is done automatically. Like simsun.ttf(have CJK Unified Ideographs (Han) and CJK Extension-A) and simsunb.ttf(only have CJK Extension-B,CJK Extension-C and CJK Extension-D).

     
  • nodje
    nodje
    2013-12-09

    Hi gnosygnu. Pretty technical problem! I didn't realised the whole thing was that complex.

    From a practical perspective, what you have now IS searchable both in Simplified and Traditional. At least from my few tests.
    So you shoudn't have to deal with this, Wikipedia should handle it.

    But it'll always be displayed in Traditional. And so until you implement the font variant function.

    As a background information, all mainland China uses Simplified Chinese whereas Hong Kong, Macao and Taiwan each have their own Traditional variant.
    There's many more mainland Chinese, but they are way less likely to use your software than their HK, TW, Macau counterpart, as Wikipedia has long been banned in Mainland and is still for many resources. Baidu equivalent of wikipedia is far more popular in Mainland.

    I think Simplified Chinese needs a lot less specific fonts.
    And as for Traditional, I'm not sure that you really need to do anything. As you said, articles probably won't be displayed correctly in Wikipedia pages either if the user hasn't taken care of installing the specific fonts on its system.

    As a reference the newest OS X would by default be able to display A and B extension but not C and D
    (I've just had a look on Unicode D ext. it's really a small set of probably extremely rarely used chars...)

     
    Last edit: nodje 2013-12-09
  • gnosygnu
    gnosygnu
    2013-12-10

    Hey. Thanks for the detailed explanation!

    From a practical perspective, what you have now IS searchable both in Simplified and Traditional.

    Cool. I'm assuming the Wikipedia dumps put in redirects for both the Simplified and Traditional versions. I find that with English Wikipedia, they liberally put in redirects. So for example, there is a redirect page for USA, Usa, U_S_A, etc.. to all redirect to United_States. I'm assuming they have Simplified words redirecting to the Traditional page.

    But it'll always be displayed in Traditional. And so until you implement the font variant function.

    Ok. I honestly did not realize that it was that much of a difference. With English, the closest analogy is "American" and "British" variants (for example, soccer vs football; elevator vs lift; fries vs chips; etc..). I assume the gap is wider for Simple vs Traditional.

    I'll try to get this done next month. It's been on the back burner, since I can't really review the results in Chinese. If I know either you or zjzengdongyang will look at it, I'll bump it up sooner.

    As a background information, all mainland China uses Simplified Chinese whereas Hong Kong, Macao and Taiwan each have their own Traditional variant.

    Nice summary. Will definitely keep this in mind.

    I think Simplified Chinese needs a lot less specific fonts. And as for Traditional....

    Yeah, I don't think there's much I can do. I may deploy the fonts inside the bin directories (/xowa/bin/linux) and instruct the users to install it. But in the end, XOWA uses XUL Runner (which is a stripped down Firefox). It can't do anything more than what Firefox can.

     
  • zjzengdongyang
    zjzengdongyang
    2014-01-11

    I can not understand this sentence:I'll try to get this done next month. It's been on the back burner, since I can't really review the results in Chinese. If I know either you or zjzengdongyang will look at it, I'll bump it up sooner.
    I used Google translate it, but it seems not fluent after the translation, I do not understand.I used Google translate it, but it seems not fluent after the translation, I do not understand.
    Can you explain it?
    Also, if you had started to increase "T to S" function, I see from the lang folder file. Eh? What is variants?
    And in zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/异体字 also have question:
    1.「-{溫}-」與「-{温}-」 is “溫”与“温” ,「-{咲}-」is “咲” ,「笑」is “笑”(「-{ is “ ,-」is ”)
    2.have more -{ and }-
    3.in "正写与俗写(正寫與俗寫)" , "-{蟁/螡}- -{蚊}- "is "蟁/螡 蚊(简、港、台)"
    4.-{zh-cn:繁体字; zh-hk:繁體字; zh-tw:正體字}- is bad.-{zh-hans:查; zh-hant:檢;}-‎·论‎·编 also bad.(-{zh-cn:?; zh-hk:?; zh-tw:?}- is used for “T to S and S to T”,but not process)
    And use menu-xowa.tools.wikis.import_from_list-text|使用列表导入 better than menu-xowa.tools.wikis.import_from_list-text|从列表导入

     
    • gnosygnu
      gnosygnu
      2014-01-12

      I can not understand this sentence:I'll try to get this done next month. It's been on the back burner,

      Sorry. "Back-burner" is an English saying.

      To say it another way: This function was on my to-do list for many months. (back-burner). It will still take me several weeks to do. I've already done some parts in the last two weeks, but it will probably take me 1 or 2 months to get the entire thing working.

      Also, if you had started to increase "T to S" function, I see from the lang folder file.

      Yes. I've fixed the items here: https://sourceforge.net/p/xowa/tickets/291/

      Eh? What is variants?

      In MediaWiki terms, 'zh' is the language, while 'zh-hans', 'zh-hant', 'zh-cn', etc. are variants

      「-{溫}-」與「-{温}-」 is “溫”与“温” ,「-{咲}-」is “咲” ,「笑」is “笑”(「-{ is “ ,-」is ”)
      have more -{ and }-
      in "正写与俗写(正寫與俗寫)" , "-{蟁/螡}- -{蚊}- "is "蟁/螡 蚊(简、港、台)"
      -{zh-cn:繁体字; zh-hk:繁體字; zh-tw:正體字}- is bad.-{zh-hans:查; zh-hant:檢;}-‎·论‎·编 also bad.(-{zh-cn:?; zh-hk:?; zh-tw:?}- is used for “T to S and S to T”,but not process)

      All these items are related to the "-{ }-" syntax. I've been working on this item the past two weeks. v1.1.2 will have much better support for them. You should download the latest version on Monday.

      And use menu-xowa.tools.wikis.import_from_list-text|使用列表导入 better than menu-xowa.tools.wikis.import_from_list-text|从列表导入

      I'm not sure what you mean.

      • zh-hans.gfs currently shows 使用列表导入
      • should zh-hans.gfs use 从列表导入

      If so, I'll update it for v1.1.3

      Thanks.


      我无法理解这句话:我会尽力让这个下月完成。它已经能拖就拖,

      抱歉。 “回到燃烧器”是指英文的说法。

      说换一种说法:此功能是在我的待办事项清单多月。 (背刻录机) 。它仍然需要好几个星期的事情。我已经做了一些部件,在过去两个星期,但它可能会带我1或2个月的时间,整个事情的工作。

      另外,如果你已经开始加大“ T到S”的功能,我从lang文件夹文件中看到。

      是。我已经在这里固定的项目: https://sourceforge.net/p/xowa/tickets/291/

      嗯?什么是变量?

      MediaWiki内而言, “深航”是语言,而“ ZH-汉斯”,“ ZH- HANT ”,“ ZH- CN ”等都是变种

      「 - {温} - 」与「 - {温} - 」是「温」与「温」 , 「 - {咲} - 」是「咲」 , 「笑」是「笑」 ( 「 - {是“ , - 」是“ )
      有更多的 - {和} -
      在“正写与俗写(正写与俗写) ” , “ - {蟁/螡} - {蚊} - ”是“蟁/螡蚊(简,港,台) ”
      - { ZH- CN :繁体字; ZH -HK :繁体字; ZH- TW :正体字} - 是坏 - { ZH-汉斯:查; ZH- HANT :检; } - ·论·编。还不错( - { ZH- CN : ; ZH -HK : ; ZH- TW : ? ? ? } - 用于“ T到S和S到T ” ,而不是过程)

      所有这些项目都涉及到“ - { } - ”语法。我一直在做这个项目在过去两个星期。 V1.1.2将对他们更好的支持。你应该下载最新的版本在周一。

      而使用菜单xowa.tools.wikis.import_from_list文本|使用列表导入比菜单xowa.tools.wikis.import_from_list文本更好|从列表导入

      我不知道你的意思。

      • ZH- hans.gfs目前显示使用列表导入
        *应ZH- hans.gfs使用从列表导入

      如果是的话,我会更新它V1.1.3

      谢谢。

       
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