[wxperl-users] Re: [HWX] Some remarks already

[Graciliano M. P. \(V. Sites\) <gm...@vi...>]

> I'll have a go to try to get it all to work on Linux.
Thanks.

> I understand. However, I think it would be wise to add comments in your
> code to let other developers understand what's going on in the code...
Well, I will try again.

> >
> > Yes.
> ...but what *is* HPL? What is the relationship between HWX and HPL?
Is one project, for Perl too, that I have. I haven't published it to the
public because I want to rewrite some parts first.

> OK, that's an obvious improvement. On the other hand, just a suggestion
> that comes to mind: why not send your idea about PerlBin to the p5p
> (Perl 5 Porters) so it might be a standard part of Perl? If that will
> happen, every perl installation has the possibility of creating
> standalone executables. That would remove the need for a different Perl
> flavour and would make the project a lot less complicated and more
> attractive to use.
Well, I can post to P5P, but I can't wait for them to start what I want to
do! And they released Perl-5.8 now, we will need to wait another release to
see it there. And Perl 5.6.1, what the peoples really use for now, will be
in the place of Perl-5.8 during a long time, since Perl-5.8 still need to
fix some bugs.

> This is where I can't follow you. Are you saying that Perl -as it is
> currently- is different in different operating systems? That would be
> new to me.
> HWX being a development environment for portable GUI applications in
> Perl sounds like THE idea. I think that goal can be reached in a number
> of different ways. I think taking Perl as it is itself simplifies the
> matter. Of course that also takes Wx as the GUI of choice. GML sounds
> like a great plan too. If we had a GUI Design tool, we'd be a step
> further. After that a full-featured IDE can be built.
HWX will have a HWXeditor. This is my goal, but first it need the base, GML.

> PerlBin as a complementary tool is great too. Maybe it is an idea to
> develop PerlBin like Perl2Exe (by indigostar software) is done: release
> it in a kind of binary form per Perl release. PerlBin for ActiveState
> Perl build 633 for Windows, PerlBin for Perl 5.6.1 for Linux, etc.
> And another idea is to develop a Perl Debugger with Wx as a part of the
> IDE. It shouldn't be too hard to do this using Devel::ptkdb as an example.
The idea of the debuger is great! You can co-ordenate this.

> Another thing I don't understand is how you think endusers will use
> HWXperl. I don't see how endusers will develop GUI applications.
Man! If an end user get some HWX app, it need some interpreter to run it! It
can get Perl and configure it to run HWX apps, or just get HWXperl.

> OK. Let's agree we disagree on this :). I don't see endusers using
> HWXperl or any Perl at all. Even less the possibility of a developer
> adjusting the code of the enduser to make it run on a normal Perl
> distro. At least I know I won't use the dot notation if I don't have to
> until Perl 6 comes out :)
Make some tests with GML, controling the objects, and you will see that
DotRef is very usefull!!!
DotRef for the GML objects, work like javascript with objects of a <form>.
If you don't use DotRef you always need
to have the variable of the object. Since who create the objects is the GML
parse & contructor, where you get this variables? You can get from
$HWX::OBJ{id}{idname}, but with DotRef is just: obj.id.idname.Show(1)

But, how I always say, and Perl too, you are free to do what you want, I
never cut anything!

> This is absolutely true. The important keyword here is PerlBin. Not the
> change of the dotsyntax. That dotsyntax will come in Perl 6. It's not
> something in Perl 5. That's my opinion.
Well, I can't wait for Perl6! Perl6 have a long long way until be a stable
thing! Of course, when Perl6 comes, I will port HWX to parrot! And you use
the dots...

> If you're able to compile your script, you can distribute it to any user
> without him or her having to install all kinds of Perlmodules, or even
> perl itself. That's all there is to it.
Yes, PerlBin enable this. But I prefer to delivery HWXperl. If you think,
compile and send your won perl/lib with the app is not different to send
HWXperl, since the bigger part of HWXperl is the GUI lib, and you always
need to delivery the GUI lib. Delivering HWXperl any other HWX app are free
to work on this machine, and the app will be very very small, only some
Kbytes! Use less Kbytes is good for pockets PCs, since they have less
memory. Just imagine, you install HWXperl with 15Mb, and you can have 150
apps with 100Kb (total 30mb)! without HWX you have less than 30 apps.

I say again, the developer are free to do what it want! Your idea to use any
Perl to run HWX apps was inside the HWX project from the begining. But I
don't like the idea to cut off resource just because they don't work in the
standart Perl, and this is why I created HWXperl!

> Making it easier to develop GUI applications in Perl takes a good and
> complete IDE, in my idea containing a good editor, GUI design tool,
> compiler (PerlBin), debugger and maybe projectmanager.
This is what the HWX enverioment will have, and much more. I have a lot of
ideas to implement over HWX, one of them is to create a repository of HWX
apps and a browser to install them. Just imagine, you chose the app, click,
some Kbytes later it's runing in you machine, no metters what OS you are
using. This is good for the user, small and good apps, and for the
developer, it don't need to rewrite or compile for each OS.

> If you feel I disagree with you too strongly to join the project, I'd
> understand. I'll still build a GUI design tool, and try to make it
> compatible with your project. If you still want me to join, I'd be very
> happy to!
I still want you in the project, since what you think that we disagree are
inside HWX too, they just aren't my top choice! I just don't like the idea
to make 2 GUI design tool! Why not just make the HWXeditor. The editor will
work on HWXperl or not, since you can delivery it like any other app with
PerlBin, and you will have more peoples to work with you.

About DotRef, I can make a Filter for DotRef that works without the changes
of toke.c. It will have less resources, but will enable HWX apps in other
Perls.

What I think that you don't like is to be dependent of HWXperl to run the
apps. HWXperl was not to make the peoples dependent, is to already have
something done to run the apps, like ActivePerl for Win32. The peoples can
get standart Perl and compile, but they don't do, they get AtivePerl. All
the modules will run in any Perl, the peoples can install them, or just get
HWXperl, the choice will be from the developers, how their apps will be
delivered, using HWX enverioment, or just like a Perl script, or a binary
with Perl/lib.

I already put your name in the author list, and I don't want to delete! :-P

Graciliano M. P.