Thread: [Widelands-public] Widelands Foundation
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From: Holger R. <Hol...@gm...> - 2014-02-22 14:16:01
Attachments:
smime.p7s
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People, I have had an idea in my head for a while, but now I really want to go forward with this. Widelands has been awesome to many people - for example I learned to program and basically everything I know about computers I learned through one thing or another while working on Widelands. However, I always felt a little unsatisfied that it is ‘just a game’. My suggestion is the following: Let’s bring Widelands on tablets and into app stores and sell it. A small amount - maybe 2 euros or so - and with a fat disclaimer that you can play it for absolutely free on your computer. The money that is made through those sales shall go to a non-profit - I imagine that we can do a poll each december to which it should go. Right now I am trying to find legal counsel to figure out an organizational form that makes sure that the money cannot be used for other stuff, that taxes can be avoided and that is not so expensive as to eat all the surplus. I think this will be a major undertaking (not only technically, but also - since we are in exactly zero app stores right now) and I am not sure if it will succeed - I never did anything of the sorts. But it would be great if Widelands could have an impact in helping out the world. What do you think? Good idea, bad idea? Cheers, Holger |
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From: Bryan P. <bry...@gm...> - 2014-02-22 17:33:09
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I've been lurking here for quite some time, always intended to put in some help but life always seemed to get in the way. As for a group, why not set up a non-profit to support widelands itself, pay for servers, and build systems (maybe something like a jenkins server to automate builds for distribution). Why give the money made by the widelands organization entirely to another group, when widelands could use it to improve itself, as long as it's not taken home as profit, or pay by a chairman then it's quite legal. A non-profit CAN make money, but it all must stay in the company or to pay for services the company needs to maintain itself or offer it's product/services for free. On that note, people can be paid employees (all this is coming from US law, I've done quite a bit of research into starting an NPO), but the director, and board members CAN NOT get paid (the people who control the money can't pay themselves to do it), but can hire in personnel (programmers, graphic artists, sound people, server admins, whatever the case may be) who can receive a salary. On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 9:15 AM, Holger Rapp <Hol...@gm...> wrote: > People, > > I have had an idea in my head for a while, but now I really want to go > forward with this. Widelands has been awesome to many people - for example > I learned to program and basically everything I know about computers I > learned through one thing or another while working on Widelands. However, I > always felt a little unsatisfied that it is ‘just a game’. > > My suggestion is the following: Let’s bring Widelands on tablets and into > app stores and sell it. A small amount - maybe 2 euros or so - and with a > fat disclaimer that you can play it for absolutely free on your computer. > The money that is made through those sales shall go to a non-profit - I > imagine that we can do a poll each december to which it should go. Right > now I am trying to find legal counsel to figure out an organizational form > that makes sure that the money cannot be used for other stuff, that taxes > can be avoided and that is not so expensive as to eat all the surplus. > > I think this will be a major undertaking (not only technically, but also - > since we are in exactly zero app stores right now) and I am not sure if it > will succeed - I never did anything of the sorts. But it would be great if > Widelands could have an impact in helping out the world. > > What do you think? Good idea, bad idea? > > Cheers, > Holger > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Managing the Performance of Cloud-Based Applications > Take advantage of what the Cloud has to offer - Avoid Common Pitfalls. > Read the Whitepaper. > > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=121054471&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > Widelands-public mailing list > Wid...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/widelands-public > > |
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From: Holger R. <Hol...@gm...> - 2014-02-23 11:52:50
Attachments:
smime.p7s
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Hi bryan and welcome to the active part of the list :) On 22.02.2014, at 18:33, Bryan Packer <bry...@gm...> wrote: > I've been lurking here for quite some time, always intended to put in some help but life always seemed to get in the way. As for a group, why not set up a non-profit to support widelands itself, pay for servers, and build systems (maybe something like a jenkins server to automate builds for distribution). Why give the money made by the widelands organization entirely to another group, when widelands could use it to improve itself, as long as it's not taken home as profit, or pay by a chairman then it's quite legal. A non-profit CAN make money, but it all must stay in the company or to pay for services the company needs to maintain itself or offer it's product/services for free. On that note, people can be paid employees (all this is coming from US law, I've done quite a bit of research into starting an NPO), but the director, and board members CAN NOT get paid (the people who control the money can't pay themselves to do it), but can hire in personnel (programmers, graphic artists, sound people, server admins, whatever the case may be) who can receive a salary. Thanks for your comments, but you are missing the point :). Well, at least my point. My idea is that Widelands should do something good for the world, not for itself. Besides, all the things you suggest would accelerate and professionalize the development of Widelands, both would not be good thing. Acceleration would mean that Widelands would be more work for everybody, this would mean that lots of our long time contributors would need to drop out, because they do not have enough time anymore (for example, I could not spend twice the amount of time on Widelands that I am currently spending). And having paid professionals on the project would mean that it looses its charm of a labor of love for everybody involved. > > > On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 9:15 AM, Holger Rapp <Hol...@gm...> wrote: > People, > > I have had an idea in my head for a while, but now I really want to go forward with this. Widelands has been awesome to many people - for example I learned to program and basically everything I know about computers I learned through one thing or another while working on Widelands. However, I always felt a little unsatisfied that it is ‘just a game’. > > My suggestion is the following: Let’s bring Widelands on tablets and into app stores and sell it. A small amount - maybe 2 euros or so - and with a fat disclaimer that you can play it for absolutely free on your computer. The money that is made through those sales shall go to a non-profit - I imagine that we can do a poll each december to which it should go. Right now I am trying to find legal counsel to figure out an organizational form that makes sure that the money cannot be used for other stuff, that taxes can be avoided and that is not so expensive as to eat all the surplus. > > I think this will be a major undertaking (not only technically, but also - since we are in exactly zero app stores right now) and I am not sure if it will succeed - I never did anything of the sorts. But it would be great if Widelands could have an impact in helping out the world. > > What do you think? Good idea, bad idea? > > Cheers, > Holger > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Managing the Performance of Cloud-Based Applications > Take advantage of what the Cloud has to offer - Avoid Common Pitfalls. > Read the Whitepaper. > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=121054471&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > Widelands-public mailing list > Wid...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/widelands-public > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Managing the Performance of Cloud-Based Applications > Take advantage of what the Cloud has to offer - Avoid Common Pitfalls. > Read the Whitepaper. > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=121054471&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk_______________________________________________ > Widelands-public mailing list > Wid...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/widelands-public |
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From: Peter S. <sea...@gm...> - 2014-02-23 11:09:22
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Am 22.02.2014 15:15, schrieb Holger Rapp: > People, > > I have had an idea in my head for a while, but now I really want to go forward with this. I am all for it, but have no idea about all this stuff. However once things get more serious, we got one more reason to finally organize the next WiHack :) - another positive point pro this idea ;). No seriously, the only thing I am unsure about is what we will have to do to actually "sell" a 100% GPL program. Cheers, Peter |
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From: Holger R. <Hol...@gm...> - 2014-02-23 11:54:58
Attachments:
smime.p7s
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On 23.02.2014, at 12:09, Peter Schwanemann <sea...@gm...> wrote: > Am 22.02.2014 15:15, schrieb Holger Rapp: >> People, >> >> I have had an idea in my head for a while, but now I really want to go forward with this. > I am all for it, but have no idea about all this stuff. However once > things get more serious, we got one more reason to finally organize the > next WiHack :) - another positive point pro this idea ;). > > No seriously, the only thing I am unsure about is what we will have to > do to actually "sell" a 100% GPL program. That is the easiest part - because that has been done before :). In my mind, we would keep the realease channels we currently have (launchpad) and only add the app stores on top of that - with a fat disclaimer that you can get the game for free too. In the appstores, other people could repackage Widelands and give it away for no money at all - then, we would have had bad luck and nothing could be done about that. But hopefully, everybody interested in Widelands would understand our thought process and support the idea. > > Cheers, > Peter > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Managing the Performance of Cloud-Based Applications > Take advantage of what the Cloud has to offer - Avoid Common Pitfalls. > Read the Whitepaper. > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=121054471&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > Widelands-public mailing list > Wid...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/widelands-public |
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From: Nicolai H. <pre...@gm...> - 2014-02-24 10:18:31
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Hey there from me after a long time, congrats on finishing the release of build-18! On 22.02.2014 15:15, Holger Rapp wrote: > I have had an idea in my head for a while, but now I really want to > go forward with this. Widelands has been awesome to many people - for > example I learned to program and basically everything I know about > computers I learned through one thing or another while working on > Widelands. However, I always felt a little unsatisfied that it is > ‘just a game’. > > My suggestion is the following: Let’s bring Widelands on tablets and > into app stores and sell it. A small amount - maybe 2 euros or so - > and with a fat disclaimer that you can play it for absolutely free on > your computer. The money that is made through those sales shall go to > a non-profit - I imagine that we can do a poll each december to which > it should go. Right now I am trying to find legal counsel to figure > out an organizational form that makes sure that the money cannot be > used for other stuff, that taxes can be avoided and that is not so > expensive as to eat all the surpl I like the idea of a Widelands Foundation and think your goal of raising money for charities is great. A couple of quick comments: 1. Have you considered talking to Software in the Public Interest? See here: http://www.spi-inc.org/ They work with quite a number of free software projects to enable economies of scale when dealing with legal matters, donations, and so on. The 0A.D. project works with them, for example, and I think it could potentially make our lives (read: mostly _your life_ ;-)) significantly easier. 2. I think it is reasonable and people would happily accept it if a small part of donations were used for Widelands itself. This would mean financing of the hosting infrastructure, but I think it should also mean financial support e.g. for students who would like to attend a WiHack but don't have a full-time job. Obviously, this depends on the amount of donations that would actually come in, but I would keep the door open for such use of funds. 3. I like the idea of a tablet version for Widelands. This is something that I would like to play around with myself if I found the time for it. 4. Instead of selling Widelands in an app store, I would make it available for free and ask for donations in a non-intrusive way in the main menu (and perhaps in some kind of victory screen at the end of scenario games? Get people to donate for a good cause when they feel good about themselves and the game ;-)). I would also add this donation option to the desktop version of the game, by the way, except that it would obviously have to be implemented differently. The thinking behind this opinion goes like this: If somebody is prepared to pay for Widelands in a store setting, they are probably prepared to give much more than 2 euros in the long run. This is especially true if it is clearly labelled as a donation with "at least X% of your donation go to the Child's Play/whatever charity". Keep in mind that it is difficult to convey this message in an app store setting, and it is easier to convey it inside the game. At the same time, offering it for free makes it more likely to be picked up by people in the first place. In other words, my speculation is that this different strategy results in more players, less donation volume initially, but more donation volume in the long run as Widelands becomes more visible and willing-to-donate players are regularly reminded to make a donation of variable (and open-ended!) size. After all, if somebody out there feels Widelands is worth the 50€ of some AAA titles, we should take advantage of that ;-) 5. Finally, maybe we should talk with the Steam people? Cheers, Nicolai -- Lerne, wie die Welt wirklich ist, aber vergiss nie, wie sie sein sollte. |
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From: Holger R. <Hol...@gm...> - 2014-02-24 19:30:26
Attachments:
smime.p7s
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On 24.02.2014, at 11:18, Nicolai Hähnle <pre...@gm...> wrote: > Hey there from me after a long time, Indeed - and after dropping the ball on a half done branch about stacked animations >:-). Well, welcome back, always good to see you. > congrats on finishing the release of build-18! Thanks. It cost me personally at least a few gray hair. > > On 22.02.2014 15:15, Holger Rapp wrote: >> I have had an idea in my head for a while, but now I really want to >> go forward with this. Widelands has been awesome to many people - for >> example I learned to program and basically everything I know about >> computers I learned through one thing or another while working on >> Widelands. However, I always felt a little unsatisfied that it is >> ‘just a game’. >> >> My suggestion is the following: Let’s bring Widelands on tablets and >> into app stores and sell it. A small amount - maybe 2 euros or so - >> and with a fat disclaimer that you can play it for absolutely free on >> your computer. The money that is made through those sales shall go to >> a non-profit - I imagine that we can do a poll each december to which >> it should go. Right now I am trying to find legal counsel to figure >> out an organizational form that makes sure that the money cannot be >> used for other stuff, that taxes can be avoided and that is not so >> expensive as to eat all the surpl > > I like the idea of a Widelands Foundation and think your goal of raising > money for charities is great. Glad that you approve. I feel you have a lot to say in the direction that Widelands takes. > A couple of quick comments: > > 1. Have you considered talking to Software in the Public Interest? See > here: http://www.spi-inc.org/ No, I never heard of them. I put it on my todo list to contact them soonish. > > They work with quite a number of free software projects to enable > economies of scale when dealing with legal matters, donations, and so > on. The 0A.D. project works with them, for example, and I think it could > potentially make our lives (read: mostly _your life_ ;-)) significantly > easier. > > 2. I think it is reasonable and people would happily accept it if a > small part of donations were used for Widelands itself. This would mean > financing of the hosting infrastructure, but I think it should also mean > financial support e.g. for students who would like to attend a WiHack > but don't have a full-time job. Obviously, this depends on the amount of > donations that would actually come in, but I would keep the door open > for such use of funds. I find it hard to draw the line what should be supported by such money and what not. And who. And who decides that? I do not mind donating the server and the costs for being in the different app stores. But I’ll keep your suggestion in mind when planing out this action. > > 3. I like the idea of a tablet version for Widelands. This is something > that I would like to play around with myself if I found the time for it. There is already a port to SDL2 on launchpad - I do not know the state of it, but I’d like to see it merged rather sooner than later. SDL2 is fully supported on android (and maybe on ios too), so the port should be fairly easy (famous last words :)). I am interested in how this works myself, so maybe we can remote pair on this or so? > 4. Instead of selling Widelands in an app store, I would make it > available for free and ask for donations in a non-intrusive way in the > main menu (and perhaps in some kind of victory screen at the end of > scenario games? Get people to donate for a good cause when they feel > good about themselves and the game ;-)). I would also add this donation > option to the desktop version of the game, by the way, except that it > would obviously have to be implemented differently. > > The thinking behind this opinion goes like this: If somebody is prepared > to pay for Widelands in a store setting, they are probably prepared to > give much more than 2 euros in the long run. This is especially true if > it is clearly labelled as a donation with "at least X% of your donation > go to the Child's Play/whatever charity". Keep in mind that it is > difficult to convey this message in an app store setting, and it is > easier to convey it inside the game. At the same time, offering it for > free makes it more likely to be picked up by people in the first place. I agree, this sounds like the better strategy. We must make sure that we distinguish us from “Free to play” games though and the donating stuff needs to be prominent while not being annoying. > > In other words, my speculation is that this different strategy results > in more players, less donation volume initially, but more donation > volume in the long run as Widelands becomes more visible and > willing-to-donate players are regularly reminded to make a donation of > variable (and open-ended!) size. After all, if somebody out there feels > Widelands is worth the 50€ of some AAA titles, we should take advantage > of that ;-) > > 5. Finally, maybe we should talk with the Steam people? Who are the steam people and why should we talk to them? > > Cheers, > Nicolai > -- > Lerne, wie die Welt wirklich ist, > aber vergiss nie, wie sie sein sollte. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Flow-based real-time traffic analytics software. Cisco certified tool. > Monitor traffic, SLAs, QoS, Medianet, WAAS etc. with NetFlow Analyzer > Customize your own dashboards, set traffic alerts and generate reports. > Network behavioral analysis & security monitoring. All-in-one tool. > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=126839071&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > Widelands-public mailing list > Wid...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/widelands-public |
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