From: Robin L. P. <rlp...@di...> - 2003-09-27 07:33:04
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Why, oh why, are comments on Wiki pages and forum posts held in the same table? -Robin -- Me: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** I'm a *male* Robin. "but I'm not stupid and people are not stupid who think samely with me" -- from an actual, real, non-spam mail sent to web...@lo... http://www.lojban.org/ *** .i cimo'o prali .ui |
From: Marc L. <ti...@ma...> - 2003-09-28 05:53:37
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Dunno. What should we do about it? M ;-) -- Marc Laporte http://tikiwiki.org/UserPagemarclaporte -----Original Message----- From: tik...@li... [mailto:tik...@li...] On Behalf Of Robin Lee Powell Sent: September 27, 2003 3:31 AM To: tik...@li... Subject: [Tikiwiki-devel] Forums versus comments? Why, oh why, are comments on Wiki pages and forum posts held in the same table? -Robin -- Me: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** I'm a *male* Robin. "but I'm not stupid and people are not stupid who think samely with me" -- from an actual, real, non-spam mail sent to web...@lo... http://www.lojban.org/ *** .i cimo'o prali .ui ------------------------------------------------------- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf _______________________________________________ Tikiwiki-devel mailing list Tik...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel |
From: David R. N. <d.r...@qu...> - 2003-09-28 09:53:39
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Robin Lee Powell wrote: > Why, oh why, are comments on Wiki pages and forum posts held in the > same table? Why shouldn't they be? The curse of Tikiwiki is that the there isn't a simple way of reusing material posted to the CMS in a forum, or a forum post in a wikiwiki page. Instead we have completely separate interfaces and data storage for each writing-and-reading model. I strongly oppose any further separation. Instead, I'd like a system where all message contents are stored in one table, and the blog, cms, forum and so on are indexes into this content table. At least with wikiwiki page comments and forums in the same table there is chance of adding the ability to take some comments to a page and turn them into a forum thread (and vice versa). -- Dr. David R. Newman, Queen's University Belfast, School of Management and Economics, Belfast BT7 1NN, Northern Ireland (UK) Tel. (direct) +44 (0)28 9027 3643 (office) +44 (0)28 9033 5011 FAX: +44 (0)28 9033 5156 mailto:d.r...@qu... http://www.qub.ac.uk/mgt/staff/dave/ |
From: Patrick V. d. V. <Pat...@pa...> - 2003-09-29 20:32:30
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On Saturday 27 September 2003 09:30, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > Why, oh why, are comments on Wiki pages and forum posts held in the > same table? > > -Robin There are pros and cons for this. The cons are probably what David Newman= =20 mentioned in his followup post. But I do wonder if the current approach i= s=20 (one of) the reasons why Tiki forums are soooooooooooo slow. I would not=20 advocate fragmenting the data model just for any reason but performance w= ould=20 definitively one. In its current incarnations Tiki forums have no chance = of=20 competing with 95% of other fora software solely on the issue of performa= nce. Regards, --=20 Patrick Van der Veken KUDOS BVBA - Baan/UNIX Consultancy patrick_at_kudos.cx - patrick.vanderveken_at_pandora.be http://www.ux-core.com - http://www.baanboard.com Tel: +32.477.63.52.55 - Fax: n/a -- Sending unsolicited commercial e-mail to this account incurs a fee of 500 EURO per message, and acknowledges the legality of this contract |
From: Robin L. P. <rlp...@di...> - 2003-09-28 21:47:32
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On Sun, Sep 28, 2003 at 01:11:18PM +0200, Patrick Van der Veken wrote: > But I do wonder if the current approach is (one of) the reasons > why Tiki forums are soooooooooooo slow. I doubt that, actually. To be more specific, I doubt that breaking out comments and forum posts would result in a speed increase, unless you have a site where the Wiki comments number somewhere near as much as the forum posts. I doubt this is the usual case. From the code I've looked at, I'm sure there are many things that could be done to improve performance, and while re-normalizing the database might be one of them, I doubt that it would be the primary one. -Robin -- Me: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** I'm a *male* Robin. "but I'm not stupid and people are not stupid who think samely with me" -- from an actual, real, non-spam mail sent to web...@lo... http://www.lojban.org/ *** .i cimo'o prali .ui |
From: David R. N. <d.r...@qu...> - 2003-09-28 23:12:13
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Robin Lee Powell wrote: > On Sun, Sep 28, 2003 at 01:11:18PM +0200, Patrick Van der Veken wrote: > >>But I do wonder if the current approach is (one of) the reasons >>why Tiki forums are soooooooooooo slow. > > > I doubt that, actually. It's something you can measure. I did some profiling back in February. At that time, loading and using the comments code was one of the slowest stages in loading a wiki or CMS page: so much so that I routinely turn off the comments. I've no idea whether that is still the case. At that time the comments code was incredibly inefficient, getting each comment by a seperate SQL call in a PHP loop, rather than retrieving the whole table in one SQL call, then looping through the results table in memory. But that was a couple of Tikiwiki releases ago. -- Dr. David R. Newman, Queen's University Belfast, School of Management and Economics, Belfast BT7 1NN, Northern Ireland (UK) Tel. (direct) +44 (0)28 9027 3643 (office) +44 (0)28 9033 5011 FAX: +44 (0)28 9033 5156 mailto:d.r...@qu... http://www.qub.ac.uk/mgt/staff/dave/ |
From: Robin L. P. <rlp...@di...> - 2003-09-28 23:19:36
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On Mon, Sep 29, 2003 at 12:11:05AM +0100, David R. Newman wrote: > Robin Lee Powell wrote: > > >On Sun, Sep 28, 2003 at 01:11:18PM +0200, Patrick Van der Veken wrote: > > > >>But I do wonder if the current approach is (one of) the reasons > >>why Tiki forums are soooooooooooo slow. > > > > > >I doubt that, actually. > > It's something you can measure. I did some profiling back in > February. At that time, loading and using the comments code was > one of the slowest stages in loading a wiki or CMS page: so much > so that I routinely turn off the comments. I'm not arguing that at all. Sorry, I engaged in inappropriate context-ectomy. My point was that mixing comments with the forum posts (i.e. both in the same table) was probably not making the Forums any slower. > I've no idea whether that is still the case. At that time the > comments code was incredibly inefficient, getting each comment by > a seperate SQL call in a PHP loop, rather than retrieving the > whole table in one SQL call, then looping through the results > table in memory. But that was a couple of Tikiwiki releases ago. Gah. That's pretty bad, and probably still the case from what I saw, although I didn't look closely. -Robin -- Me: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** I'm a *male* Robin. "but I'm not stupid and people are not stupid who think samely with me" -- from an actual, real, non-spam mail sent to web...@lo... http://www.lojban.org/ *** .i cimo'o prali .ui |
From: Robin L. P. <rlp...@di...> - 2003-09-28 23:19:48
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On Mon, Sep 29, 2003 at 12:11:05AM +0100, David R. Newman wrote: > It's something you can measure. I did some profiling back in > February. How, exactly? This would be a useful tool for us to know how to use! -Robin -- Me: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** I'm a *male* Robin. "but I'm not stupid and people are not stupid who think samely with me" -- from an actual, real, non-spam mail sent to web...@lo... http://www.lojban.org/ *** .i cimo'o prali .ui |
From: David R. N. <d.r...@qu...> - 2003-09-28 23:27:13
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Robin Lee Powell wrote: > On Mon, Sep 29, 2003 at 12:11:05AM +0100, David R. Newman wrote: > >>It's something you can measure. I did some profiling back in >>February. > > > How, exactly? This would be a useful tool for us to know how to > use! Evan Borgstrom pointed me in the direction of: http://apd.communityconnect.com/ (now part of PEAR) among other PHP profiling tools. -- Dr. David R. Newman, Queen's University Belfast, School of Management and Economics, Belfast BT7 1NN, Northern Ireland (UK) Tel. (direct) +44 (0)28 9027 3643 (office) +44 (0)28 9033 5011 FAX: +44 (0)28 9033 5156 mailto:d.r...@qu... http://www.qub.ac.uk/mgt/staff/dave/ |
From: Flo G. <fl...@bi...> - 2003-09-29 22:10:28
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That's because all comments to all objects in tiki are held in this table. Same things should end in the same table. There should be no problem with that. The advantage: if the commentslib is written generally enough, you can add comments to almost every object in tiki. That's the idea. The disadvantage: if the commentslib is not written generally enough, any change in commentslib will break many things in tiki. Flo On Sat, 27 Sep 2003, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > Why, oh why, are comments on Wiki pages and forum posts held in the > same table? > > -Robin > > -- > Me: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** I'm a *male* Robin. > "but I'm not stupid and people are not stupid who think samely with me" > -- from an actual, real, non-spam mail sent to web...@lo... > http://www.lojban.org/ *** .i cimo'o prali .ui > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek > Welcome to geek heaven. > http://thinkgeek.com/sf > _______________________________________________ > Tikiwiki-devel mailing list > Tik...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel > |
From: David R. N. <d.r...@qu...> - 2003-09-29 22:47:39
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Flo G. wrote: > > That's because all comments to all objects in tiki are held in this table. > Same things should end in the same table. There should be no problem with > that. The advantage: if the commentslib is written generally enough, you > can add comments to almost every object in tiki. That's the idea. > The disadvantage: if the commentslib is not written generally enough, > any change in commentslib will break many things in tiki. Also, if commentslib is not performance optimized, all commenting anywhere will be slow. -- Dr. David R. Newman, Queen's University Belfast, School of Management and Economics, Belfast BT7 1NN, Northern Ireland (UK) Tel. (direct) +44 (0)28 9027 3643 (office) +44 (0)28 9033 5011 FAX: +44 (0)28 9033 5156 mailto:d.r...@qu... http://www.qub.ac.uk/mgt/staff/dave/ |