#442 Allow <foreign> to contain <q>

AMBER
closed
1(low)
2013-11-15
2013-03-04
No

Consider the following (from FDT's Henry V):

La main, de hand. Les doigts, le fingres.
Je pense que je suis le bon écolier. J’ai gagné deux
mots d’anglais vitement. Comment appelez-vous “les
ongles”?
(http://www.folgerdigitaltexts.org/?chapter=5&play=H5&loc=ftln-1336)

Ideally we would enclose all foreign words in the <foreign> tag (in this example we consider "de hand" and "le fingres" to be English/non-foreign). We would like to enclose "des ongles" in <q> tags. If <foreign> can contain <soCalled> or <mentioned>, what is the case against being able to do so for <q>?

We find there to be a slippery slope between <soCalled> and <mentioned>, so we prefer to use a generic <q> for all quotes throughout the project. For example, in Hermia's line below, is "little" in quotes because it was mentioned by Helena, or because Hermia is so-called little?
“Little” again? Nothing but “low” and “little”?
(http://www.folgerdigitaltexts.org/?chapter=5&play=MND&loc=line-3.2.343)

Discussion

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  • Lou Burnard
    Lou Burnard
    2013-03-13

    There are two reasons why <q> is not permitted within <foreign>. Firstly <q> is an "inter" level element, which can appear between paragraphs as well as within them. Allowing it within <foreign> would therefor be quite a major change to its content -- it would have to allow paragraphs and lists as well. Secondly, <foreign>-ness is regarded as subsidiary to <q>-ness. This is not so arbitrary as it sounds: it's quite likely that a <q> will contain both foreign and non foreign material, whereas the reverse seems less probable. Also, foreignness can most economically be indicated by an attribute.

    I would tag the speech you quote as follows
    <p xml:lang="fr">La main, <mentioned xml:lang="en">de hand</mentioned>. Les doigts, <mentioned xml:lang="en">le fingres</mentioned>. Je pense que je suis le bon écolier. J’ai gagné deux mots d’anglais vitement. Comment appelez-vous <mentioned rend="quoted">les ongles</mentioned>?

    [Tho this doesn't of course indicate that what is presented as "French" here wouldnt go down so well in the hexagon ("vitement", forsooth)]

    Which brings us to the slippery slope of <mentioned>. You're quite right in thus characterising it, but you're not required to make this subjective and perhaps over subtle decision. You can simply use <q> for anything wrapped in quote marks -- effectively as a synonym for <hi rend="quoted"> if you like : many people do.

     
    Last edit: Lou Burnard 2013-03-13
  • Lou Burnard
    Lou Burnard
    2013-03-30

    • milestone: --> GREEN
     
  • Lou Burnard
    Lou Burnard
    2013-03-30

    • status: open --> open-rejected
     
    • status: open-rejected --> open-accepted
     
    • status: open-accepted --> open
     
  • Lou Burnard
    Lou Burnard
    2013-04-29

    • assigned_to: Sebastian Rahtz
     
  • Lou Burnard
    Lou Burnard
    2013-04-29

    I am not sure why this ticket has been opened again. Assigning to Sebastian to explain himself.

     
    • status: open --> closed
     
  • Michael asks about this today, and I see no response from Folger, so re-opening this to allow comment.

     
    • status: closed --> open
    • Priority: 5 --> 1(low)
     
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