#101 Expanding placement options for figure, bibl, meeting

RED
closed
nobody
5
2009-04-02
2008-02-23
brettz9
No

The following relates to what started me reading the guidelines--trying to be able to follow the discussions so as to try to solve the few problems we have in getting our formerly P4 documents to validate. The following are the only essential barriers we have, and I wonder whether this might also be an issue for others too possibly. I have some more ideas such as those shared during the course of discussing the documentation, but which I plan on holding of on submitting (if you even would like ideas which are not immediately needed) since it is only this request which is essential for us.)

1) In closer (via divBottom?): figure, bibl, meeting
2) In byline (via titlepagePart, pLike.front, divTop, divBottom, or divWrapper?): figure, bibl, meeting
3) In docTitle (via titlepagePart, pLike.front?): figure
4) In bibl (via inter?): figure
5) In opener (via divTop?): meeting
6) Allow <figure> after a closer (as in a div3) (via divBottom or global?)

We'd also like to see <meeting> in running prose (where I think <event> would also be useful). The requests for <meeting>, however, are not as critical for us, since we can use <name> if necessary, but those pertaining to the placement of <figure> and <bibl> are.

Would adding <meeting> and/or model.biblLike (bibl) to model.phrase, and/or changing model.inter to work inside of divBottom/divTop/global/pLike.front work? Sorry, I still have little understanding of the class system, but just wanted to offer something.

Please let me know if there any other details I should supply.

Brett

Discussion

  • brettz9
    brettz9
    2008-02-23

    • labels: --> TEI: New or Changed Element
     
  • brettz9
    brettz9
    2008-03-06

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    We'd also like the ability to have a <bibl> within opener too.

     
  • brettz9
    brettz9
    2008-03-06

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    Yet one more related request is to allow <quote> to contain elements like <opener>, <closer>, etc. I see that <floatingText> is allowed in <quote> but

    A) It seems like floatingText is more for floating narratives, sidebars perhaps, etc.
    B) While in our case it is a genuine letter, and not fiction, the Guidelines state: "Where a character in one narrative quotes from some other text or narrative, fully or in part, the <quote> element discussed in 3.3.3 Quotation should be used instead."

     
  • Peter Boot
    Peter Boot
    2008-04-14

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    At the council meeting I've been assigned this issue. Mailed to Brett the following:

    ...
    At our last meeting, the TEI council went through the open feature requests, among which is the one you opened, mentioned above. We felt that some of things you ask for seem reasonable, but
    - we really need to see some examples for the issues that you bring up;
    - it's a number of quite different issues that you raise, so we may need to create a number of requests, and discuss them separately;
    - you suggest this may be a P4-P5 conversion issue ('the few problems we
    have in getting our formerly P4 documents to validate...'). Is it true you could validly do the things you ask for in P4?

    Could you mail me a number of examples, perhaps including page images, that show the things that you need? And is this indeed also a conversion issue?
    ...

     
  • Peter Boot
    Peter Boot
    2008-07-01

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    After some mailing back and forth we identified at least these three issues:

    1. It seems P5 made a div that contains first a div, then a figure invalid. Raised that matter on the council mailing list (http://lists.village.virginia.edu/pipermail/tei-council/2008/009823.html)

    2. A bibl can 'accidentally' be interrupted by a picture, e.g. in the case of an inserted page with images. Raised the matter of how to deal with that situation on TEI-L (http://listserv.brown.edu/archives/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0807&L=TEI-L&T=0&F=&S=&P=401)

    3. Some of the other issues result from complex postscripts (that actually include another letter). Referring to issue 1928212 (Make postscript more div-like) it seems best to encode the postscript in these cases as a separate div. The new correspondence SIG will definitely need to have another look at letter-like poststcripts.

     
  • Lou Burnard
    Lou Burnard
    2008-08-16

    • status: open --> closed
     
  • Lou Burnard
    Lou Burnard
    2008-08-16

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    The first proposal (to add <figure> to model.divBot) seems quite reasonable and I have opened a new ticket for it.

    The second, as the ensuing discussion on TEI-L demonstrates, seems to miss the point. The figure inside the bibl is not *part* of the bibl, any more than the <pb/> is, so it would actually be wrong to permit within its content model. My prefered solution would be to put the <figure> after the <bibl>, and indicate its position inside the <bibl> by means of a <ptr>.

    The third point, I think, is closed: divLike postscripts should be tagged as <div type="postscript">

     
  • Lou Burnard
    Lou Burnard
    2008-08-16

    • status: closed --> open
     
  • Lou Burnard
    Lou Burnard
    2008-08-16

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    On further examination, I have now realised that adding <figure> to model.divBottom is not an option. The members of divBottom must be disjoint with the members of model.common (which -- via model.inter -- includes figure). Otherwise the content model of <div> becomes ambiguous. As Sebastian notes, you can put <figure> inside <epigraph>, since that has a richer content model, but all the other divBottom elements only permit phrase level elements as content: so you could put a <graphic> inside one of them -- which might make better sense. In general <graphic>, as a member of model.phrase, is available in most of the places you mention above.

     
  • Lou Burnard
    Lou Burnard
    2008-08-17

    • milestone: --> RED
     
  • Peter Boot
    Peter Boot
    2009-03-22

    See bug 2607768 for a more radical proposal concerning the placement of figure (making it global). I added information about the two proposals concerning figure placement identified earlier in this request (2008-07-01) to that bug. If figure is indeed made global (to be discussed in Coucil meeting in Lyon, april 2009), that obviates the need for further discussion of these proposals here. I would then propose that we open new requests for the other issues discussed here (about meeting and quote), if still required.

     
  • Peter Boot
    Peter Boot
    2009-03-31

    After checking with Brett, it appears we can close this issue once figure has been made global. For the remaining issues other solutions have been found.

     
  • Lou Burnard
    Lou Burnard
    2009-04-02

    Council agreed to closew this

     
  • Lou Burnard
    Lou Burnard
    2009-04-02

    • status: open --> closed