Thread: Re: [sinhala-technical] An enquiry about Sinhala on Linux
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harshula
From: Harshula <har...@gm...> - 2008-08-20 17:22:42
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Hi Sarath, It's great to hear from you! My comments are below. On Tue, 2008-08-19 at 13:30 -0700, Sarath Jayewardena wrote: > Anyway, in the mid nineties I had a great interest in using Sinhala on > computers. I had devised a transliteration scheme called 'sumihiri' to > write Sinhala using English letters, which I used with TeX system to > actually typeset documents in Sinhala. I had created my own TeX fonts for > this. After I left Sri Lanka, I was busy with other things and had no time > to do or even follow up the developments that were taking place in this > area - until about six months ago, when I set out to create a web site of > Sinhala songs. I dug out my Sinhala typesetting utilities to do this. (The > result is the web site www.LankaSongBook.com which was launched in July > 08.) I've been trying to document the various transliteration schemes on http://www.nongnu.org/sinhala/. I found documentation on Sumihiri's transliteration of vowels but nothing on the consonants. Do you have a document on the entire transliteration scheme? I would really appreciate it if you could send it to me. I noted that your song book site uses images instead of Unicode Sinhala. Do you plan to convert it to Unicode Sinhala? > Right now, I am trying to *use* what you have made availble - and I am > having some difficulties. My first goal is to install Sinhala support in > Ubuntu 8.04 and use an input scheme like 'sayura' to enter text. I have > added the repository as per your instructions and installed > sinhala-gnu-linux package. Web browsing is fine. Then I ran the > gnome-keyboard-properties and set up the layout switching. (Instructions > did not apply directly, but were close enough.) So now I can open gedit, > press Shift+Shift and start typing Sinhala letters! That's wonderful, but > I don't know which Sinhala layout is being used. I don't know how to use > the modifiers except pressing 'r' seems to add an 'al kiriime' to a > letter. >From your description, it sounds like you used the XKB Sinhala keyboard layout, which is described in: http://www.nongnu.org/sinhala/doc/keymaps/sinhala-keyboard_3.html Unfortunately, GNU/Linux has a few different input infrastructures which makes it confusing. The very basic one is XKB and works with just about every graphical toolkit, however, in general, only use this when the other options fail. The other options are the m17n and scim input infrastructures. > Both scim-sayura and scim-wijesekara are installed. But how can I > choose, say, sayura method? Opening "System->Preference->SCIM input method > setup" opens a GUI for SCIM where under IMEngine 'Wijesekara' is > available. But when I select that entry, nothing is availbale for > configuration. I wonder if you could point me to some document that > clearly describes how to do these things. In general, I find the > documentation inadequate. I am not complaing, I know the limitations you > have, but it is hard to expect people to try this out without clear > documentation. http://sinhala.sourceforge.net/ --------------------------------------------------------------- To test SCIM, press Control-space whilst you are running a GNOME application. Then select one of the Sinhala input methods. --------------------------------------------------------------- Did you try pressing Control-space? An input method selection box should appear on the bottom right-hand corner. Can you also show me the content of /etc/environment? I really need to update my HOWTO document. When I get a round to it, would you be able to review it for me? > PS: Could you please send me Anuradha's e-mail address as well? I've added his email address to the CC list. I've also CC'd the sinhala-technical list. Are you interested in joining? Ruvan (UCSC) and Gihan (UoM) are also on it. cya, # |
From: Sarath J. <jay...@ma...> - 2008-08-20 19:12:44
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Hi Harshula, Thanks for the prompt reply. In Sri Lankan University circles I am better known as Camillus - so please call me Camillus. People who know me already might get confused otherwise! On Thu, 21 Aug 2008, Harshula wrote: > Hi Sarath, > > It's great to hear from you! My comments are below. > > I've been trying to document the various transliteration schemes on > http://www.nongnu.org/sinhala/. I found documentation on Sumihiri's > transliteration of vowels but nothing on the consonants. Do you have a > document on the entire transliteration scheme? I would really appreciate > it if you could send it to me. > I do have a printed publication on that. I should have the electronic copy somewhere. I myself had wanted to dig it out one of these days. Give me a few days. The full document used to be on the Ruhuna site but I figure that link is no more working. (I am glad that they have at least kept what they have kept!) > I noted that your song book site uses images instead of Unicode Sinhala. > Do you plan to convert it to Unicode Sinhala? > Definitely. The only reason I used images was that I wanted to make sure that everybody can view them. First of all I didn't have (still don't) have a good understanding of how mature sinhala unicode was. Secondly, I myself had troble viewing documents using unicode (on Linux). Even when Sinhala letters are displayed the decorations were looking misplaced. As soon as I get a better understanding of how to get things to work, I am ready to convert everything to unicode. It would be in many ways better to use unicode than using images (i.e., if it worked for everyone). > From your description, it sounds like you used the XKB Sinhala keyboard > layout, which is described in: > http://www.nongnu.org/sinhala/doc/keymaps/sinhala-keyboard_3.html > Thank you very much. Now the whole thing makes much more sense! > Unfortunately, GNU/Linux has a few different input infrastructures which > makes it confusing. The very basic one is XKB and works with just about > every graphical toolkit, however, in general, only use this when the > other options fail. > > The other options are the m17n and scim input infrastructures. > > http://sinhala.sourceforge.net/ > --------------------------------------------------------------- > To test SCIM, press Control-space whilst you are running a GNOME > application. Then select one of the Sinhala input methods. > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > Did you try pressing Control-space? An input method selection box should > appear on the bottom right-hand corner. > Ok, I did try Ctrl-space, but it was probably *before* installing/configuring something else and it did not do anything. When I try it now, the method selection box does appears and I can select input method. Thank you. However, it doesn't look like the input method changed. What else do I have to do? > Can you also show me the content > of /etc/environment? > Here it is (as the input selection box appears now, you probably don't neet to see it): PATH="/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games" export XMODIFIERS=@im=SCIM export GTK_IM_MODULE=scim export QT_IM_MODULE=scim > I really need to update my HOWTO document. When I get a round to it, > would you be able to review it for me? > I would be more than happy to review it. >> PS: Could you please send me Anuradha's e-mail address as well? > I've added his email address to the CC list. > Thanks. > I've also CC'd the sinhala-technical list. Are you interested in > joining? Ruvan (UCSC) and Gihan (UoM) are also on it. > I shouldn't probably have CC'd this mail to everybody, but I thought this way I can say 'Hi' to many of the friends. I wouldn't mind joining the list, but I am not sure how much I can contribute. As said before, I have a lot to learn before even I can comment. > cya, > # > Thanks again. Best regards, - Camillus |
From: Harshula <har...@gm...> - 2008-08-31 17:41:08
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Hi Camillus, On Wed, 2008-08-20 at 12:12 -0700, Sarath Jayewardena wrote: > I do have a printed publication on that. I should have the electronic copy > somewhere. I myself had wanted to dig it out one of these days. Give me a > few days. The full document used to be on the Ruhuna site but I figure > that link is no more working. (I am glad that they have at least kept what > they have kept!) Thanks for sending me the document, can you please review my summary of Sumihiri: http://www.nongnu.org/sinhala/doc/transliteration/sinhala-transliteration_2.html Also, these are the two phonetic keyboard layouts I've been working on (the latter is based on a suggestion by Gihan which improved the layout significantly): http://www.nongnu.org/sinhala/doc/keymaps/sinhala-keyboard_3.html http://www.nongnu.org/sinhala/doc/keymaps/sinhala-keyboard_4.html This is the transliteration scheme I've been working on: http://www.nongnu.org/sinhala/doc/transliteration/sinhala-transliteration_5.html When you have a moment, could you please look through these three layouts/schemes. All suggestions are most welcome. > > I really need to update my HOWTO document. When I get a round to it, > > would you be able to review it for me? > > > I would be more than happy to review it. I've done a major revamp of the enabling Sinhala section to simplify it as much as possible: http://www.nongnu.org/sinhala/doc/howto/sinhala-howto.html > I shouldn't probably have CC'd this mail to everybody, but I thought this > way I can say 'Hi' to many of the friends. I wouldn't mind joining the > list, but I am not sure how much I can contribute. As said before, I have > a lot to learn before even I can comment. I have added you to the sinhala-technical list. cya, # |
From: Harshula <har...@gm...> - 2008-08-31 17:58:39
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Hi Camillus, On Wed, 2008-08-20 at 12:12 -0700, Sarath Jayewardena wrote: > Ok, I did try Ctrl-space, but it was probably *before* > installing/configuring something else and it did not do anything. When I > try it now, the method selection box does appears and I can select input > method. Thank you. However, it doesn't look like the input method changed. > What else do I have to do? For testing please use GNOME and gedit. Also make sure your mouse is focused on gedit when you press control-space. By default you can choose a different input method for each program. If you happen to have two programs running and you press control-space whilst focused on program A, then move your mouse to focus on program B, you will be activating SCIM and the Sinhala input method for only program A and not for program B. Program B will still be your standard English layout. Also, try a few different non-English input methods. It maybe simply a problem with the input method you chose. > > Can you also show me the content > > of /etc/environment? > > > Here it is (as the input selection box appears now, you probably don't > neet to see it): > > PATH="/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games" > export XMODIFIERS=@im=SCIM > export GTK_IM_MODULE=scim > export QT_IM_MODULE=scim That looks fine. These days, we really should be using im-switch instead of the /etc/environment. You may want to have a play with im-switch. First do a "im-switch -l" to get a listing, then an "im-switch -s scim-immodule" to set it. cya, # |
From: Sarath J. <jay...@ma...> - 2008-09-02 22:25:18
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Hi Harshula, On Mon, 1 Sep 2008, Harshula wrote: > Hi Camillus, > > On Wed, 2008-08-20 at 12:12 -0700, Sarath Jayewardena wrote: > >> I do have a printed publication on that. I should have the electronic copy >> somewhere. I myself had wanted to dig it out one of these days. Give me a >> few days. The full document used to be on the Ruhuna site but I figure >> that link is no more working. (I am glad that they have at least kept what >> they have kept!) > > Thanks for sending me the document, can you please review my summary of > Sumihiri: > http://www.nongnu.org/sinhala/doc/transliteration/sinhala-transliteration_2.html > Thanks for adding a summary of sumihiri to the list. It is mostly correct, but the following needs to be corrected: (I will use conventions of your transliteration scheme to describe what I mean.) 1. The long 'ae' sound, or, 'aee' is represented as 'zz' in sumihiri, not as 'zz~'. That is, simply doubling the letter like in other cases. 2. 'krU' and 'krUU' are represented in sumihiri as 'kRu' and 'kRuu', respectively. 3. A question: Do we actually have 'klU' and 'klUU' in Sinhala? My (admittedly limited) understanding was that with 'k' we only have 'kau' not 'klU'. 4. 'kanG' and 'kaH' in sumihiri are 'kaNG' and 'kaH'. 5. sumihiri obtains 'krU' and 'krUU' by writing 'kRu' and 'kRuu', as mentioned above. Therefore it would be appropriate to include 'Ru' and 'Ruu' for 'rI' and 'rII', respectively. However, as it stands now, 'rI' and 'rII' are obtained in sumihiri by writing 'sRu' and 'sRuu' keeping resemblance to other letters that come with those glyphs. 6. I would like to include a special remark on not using 'E' instead of 'e' in sumihiri to represent 'e'. It is for assisting in correct pronunciation. (Eg. 'mame gEdhere yanewaa') 7. Finally, I would like to include the link "http://www.LankaSongBook.com/scheme.pdf" in the Reference section if you are unable to put the full document in some place because the link at Ruhuna University is now stale. > Also, these are the two phonetic keyboard layouts I've been working on > (the latter is based on a suggestion by Gihan which improved the layout > significantly): > http://www.nongnu.org/sinhala/doc/keymaps/sinhala-keyboard_3.html > http://www.nongnu.org/sinhala/doc/keymaps/sinhala-keyboard_4.html > > This is the transliteration scheme I've been working on: > http://www.nongnu.org/sinhala/doc/transliteration/sinhala-transliteration_5.html > > When you have a moment, could you please look through these three > layouts/schemes. All suggestions are most welcome. > Interesting stuff. A quick look reveals many similarities to sumihiri. I wish I had more time to study all this. Right now I am again busy as the semester started. But I will surely go through them and send my comments. >>> I really need to update my HOWTO document. When I get a round to it, >>> would you be able to review it for me? >>> >> I would be more than happy to review it. > > I've done a major revamp of the enabling Sinhala section to simplify it > as much as possible: > http://www.nongnu.org/sinhala/doc/howto/sinhala-howto.html > Thank you. It will be high on my to-do list. >> I shouldn't probably have CC'd this mail to everybody, but I thought this >> way I can say 'Hi' to many of the friends. I wouldn't mind joining the >> list, but I am not sure how much I can contribute. As said before, I have >> a lot to learn before even I can comment. > > I have added you to the sinhala-technical list. > > cya, > # > > Thanks for all your effort, Harshula! - Camillus |
From: Harshula <har...@gm...> - 2008-09-10 14:57:25
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Hi Camillus, I've updated the Sumihiri summary, could you please see if there are anymore errors? On Tue, 2008-09-02 at 15:25 -0700, Sarath Jayewardena wrote: > On Mon, 1 Sep 2008, Harshula wrote: > > Thanks for sending me the document, can you please review my summary of > > Sumihiri: > > http://www.nongnu.org/sinhala/doc/transliteration/sinhala-transliteration_2.html > > > Thanks for adding a summary of sumihiri to the list. It is mostly correct, > but the following needs to be corrected: > > (I will use conventions of your transliteration scheme to describe > what I mean.) > > 1. The long 'ae' sound, or, 'aee' is represented as 'zz' in sumihiri, > not as 'zz~'. That is, simply doubling the letter like in other > cases. > 2. 'krU' and 'krUU' are represented in sumihiri as 'kRu' and 'kRuu', > respectively. > 3. A question: Do we actually have 'klU' and 'klUU' in Sinhala? My > (admittedly limited) understanding was that with 'k' we only have > 'kau' not 'klU'. My philosophy on input methods is to accommodate as many permutations as allowed by the script, even if it disagrees with the language that uses the script. The simple reason being, how else can you type an incorrect sequence of letters in order to illustrate the correct and incorrect sequences. > 4. 'kanG' and 'kaH' in sumihiri are 'kaNG' and 'kaH'. > 5. sumihiri obtains 'krU' and 'krUU' by writing 'kRu' and 'kRuu', as > mentioned above. Therefore it would be appropriate to include 'Ru' > and 'Ruu' for 'rI' and 'rII', respectively. However, as it stands > now, 'rI' and 'rII' are obtained in sumihiri by writing 'sRu' and > 'sRuu' keeping resemblance to other letters that come with those glyphs. > 6. I would like to include a special remark on not using 'E' instead > of 'e' in sumihiri to represent 'e'. It is for assisting in correct > pronunciation. (Eg. 'mame gEdhere yanewaa') If you can provide the exact statement, I'll add it as a note. It sounds like you want 'E' to be used for එ and ෙ, and 'e' to represent ə (schwa). > 7. Finally, I would like to include the link > "http://www.LankaSongBook.com/scheme.pdf" in the Reference section > if you are unable to put the full document in some place because > the link at Ruhuna University is now stale. cya, # |