Thread: [Shinken-devel] Shinken Licensing
Status: Beta
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From: Mary S. <ms...@na...> - 2010-06-21 22:43:22
|
I noticed on your website that Shinken is released under the AGLv3 License. I think you probably meant AGPLv3? Nagios Core is released under the GPL License. According to the GPL license, if you use or modify the Nagios Core code it must be released under the same license. This also applies even if you use the Nagios Core code as a "reference" during re-implementation in another language. That's how copyright law works worldwide. You should therefore change the license to GPL as soon as possible, as a license change has not been approved by all of the Nagios Core contributors, and would be considered a violation of the GPL and general copyright laws as it stands. Regards, Mary Starr Vice President ___ Nagios Enterprises, LLC Office: (888)NAGIOS-1 x702 Fax: (651)204-9103 Mobile: (651)206-1575 Email: ms...@na... Web: www.nagios.com |
From: Ethan G. <ega...@na...> - 2010-06-22 15:11:50
|
I'm just joinging the list, so I can't reply to previous messages as normal, so I'll quote one of the recent replies regarding licensing... nap: > LOL, so funny, make me nearly fall from my chair :) > > You do not really know what Shinken is isn't it? When I say it's a > fork, I do not mean I take Nagios code, change the licence (and I'm > totally agree that's not possible to change Nagios license, hopefully > ;) ) and say : "Hey, I'm totally something totally different". I did > not "steal" code (even if I do not like the "steal" usage in a open > source context). > > No. > > It's a TOTAL reimplementation of the code! I do not take a SINGLE line > of the Nagios code. Only the documentation (in fact the doc from > monitoring-fr, you know, the ex nagios-fr...) and this part got a > LICENSE file of GPLV2. (you should look at this docbook documentation, > very good docbook format by the way). > There is no "documentation" that references in detail how to programmatically process timeperiod logic for Nagios Core, yet somehow this managed to be magically "re-implemented" in the Shinken Python code. Pixie dust must be flying on someone's network to have made that happen. "Re-implementation" when referencing pre-existing code is still covered under copyright laws and protects the original copyright holders. There is code all around Shinken that could not have been developed without having looked at the C code for Nagios Core as the reference. Downtime, macros, timeperiod logic, and other Shinken Python code makes it clear that the C code from Nagios Core was used as a reference when "re-implementing" Nagios Core. This type of "re-implementation" to a different language with a license switch would clearly be considered copyright infringement and you could find yourself in deep trouble. Since Nagios Core is GPL, you have rights to modify it, but you're required to release those changes/mods under the same license. The GPL doesn't grant you rights to re-implement under a different license when you use the original GPL code as a reference. Since Shinken was "re-implemented" using the Nagios Core code as a reference, it cannot be release under the AGPL - it must be released under the GPL license. You don't have rights to change the GPL license associated with Nagios Core without getting permission from every person who has contributed to the Nagios Core code over the past decade. Neither do I. Those are the rules - plain and simple. If you're going to live in the world of intellectual property, you need to understand the rules that you have to abide by. Just because you're an "Open Source" guy doesn't mean you have any right to violate licenses as you see fit or make the rules up as you go. Ethan Galstad President ___ Nagios Enterprises, LLC Office: (888)NAGIOS-1 x701 Fax: (651)204-9103 Mobile: (651)278-1477 Email: ega...@na... Web: www.nagios.com |
From: nap <nap...@gm...> - 2010-06-23 07:35:29
|
On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 5:11 PM, Ethan Galstad <ega...@na...> wrote: > I'm just joinging the list, so I can't reply to previous messages as > normal, so I'll quote one of the recent replies regarding licensing... > > nap: >> LOL, so funny, make me nearly fall from my chair :) >> >> You do not really know what Shinken is isn't it? When I say it's a >> fork, I do not mean I take Nagios code, change the licence (and I'm >> totally agree that's not possible to change Nagios license, hopefully >> ;) ) and say : "Hey, I'm totally something totally different". I did >> not "steal" code (even if I do not like the "steal" usage in a open >> source context). >> >> No. >> >> It's a TOTAL reimplementation of the code! I do not take a SINGLE line >> of the Nagios code. Only the documentation (in fact the doc from >> monitoring-fr, you know, the ex nagios-fr...) and this part got a >> LICENSE file of GPLV2. (you should look at this docbook documentation, >> very good docbook format by the way). >> > > There is no "documentation" that references in detail how to > programmatically process timeperiod logic for Nagios Core, yet somehow > this managed to be magically "re-implemented" in the Shinken Python > code. Pixie dust must be flying on someone's network to have made that > happen. Yes, there is no documentation about how datetimes (inside timeperiods) are defined, but the way timeperiods works is quite obvious : get the next date, that's all. I look at the Nagios code for the datetime part so see all the was we can defined them. But not for the algorithms in it (like find the next date for example, and it ask me quite a lot of papers to find the good algorithm...). So if you are right about the "inspiration" part, and the fact I do not use the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_room_design technique, I will put the function asides of the rest of the code and AGPL licence, and make the documentation, then someone else can wrote them again. We are talking about the comments in the timeperiod.py file, and the function resolve_daterange function (quite long, was quite not pythonic after all). All others functions were coded without looking at how Nagios does in the code (and If I'm not wrong, it's better because exclusion is not working isn't it?). > > "Re-implementation" when referencing pre-existing code is still covered > under copyright laws and protects the original copyright holders. There > is code all around Shinken that could not have been developed without > having looked at the C code for Nagios Core as the reference. Downtime, > macros, timeperiod logic, and other Shinken Python code makes it clear > that the C code from Nagios Core was used as a reference when > "re-implementing" Nagios Core. The only part that take inspiration from the code and not the documentation is datetime format because like you said it's not documented. That's all. Timeperiod is not affected by it : I wrote my own algorithm to find a new date because it was a good challenge for my algorithm skill. For downtime and macros, the documentation was enough. Downtime are just a check of a timeperiod, and macro are just a reverse hash table after all. For the rest of the Shinken code (the distributed way) I do not see how it can be inspired by Nagios : one is distributed with graph management, the other is a daemon with all in it. > > This type of "re-implementation" to a different language with a license > switch would clearly be considered copyright infringement and you could > find yourself in deep trouble. Since Nagios Core is GPL, you have > rights to modify it, but you're required to release those changes/mods > under the same license. The GPL doesn't grant you rights to > re-implement under a different license when you use the original GPL > code as a reference. > > Since Shinken was "re-implemented" using the Nagios Core code as a > reference, it cannot be release under the AGPL - it must be released > under the GPL license. > > You don't have rights to change the GPL license associated with Nagios > Core without getting permission from every person who has contributed to > the Nagios Core code over the past decade. Neither do I. Those are > the rules - plain and simple. > > If you're going to live in the world of intellectual property, you need > to understand the rules that you have to abide by. Just because you're > an "Open Source" guy doesn't mean you have any right to violate licenses > as you see fit or make the rules up as you go. Yes, I will follow the rules, that why I ask help fro the FSF and to Richard Stallman about this "inspiration" (not using the clean room design) between two projects. If I must put this part of code in GPLv2, it's not a problem. Even if it's in a "gray zone", we will redone the part of code for the datetime function and class names. If you find some other portions of code that cannot be wrote without the nagios code (so with only the documentation) let me know it. By the way I choose the AGPL license because I wanted the maximum of freedom for the users : if they are monitored by some box, they should be able to get the code that are monitoring them. I though fully new code was a opportunity to make a upgrade of the license for the users. It was really not to offense other developers. If you do not want the Shinken project to be a proprietary software, I also do not want it, believe me. If you fear that Shinken become a new business challenger : it's not the case, I'm a sysadmin, and a happy sysadmin. With family things, I can't afford to be a business man and move every where. I see that the term "fork" about Shinken can cause problem to both or ours projects. I'll take "compatibility with" because that better shows what it is, and people will not think this is based on the same code (and so is tested from 10 years because that's no true for Shinken). So finally : let wait for a FSF answer, I think they are better than every one to say if code inspiration need to keep the same license. If we need to change it, we will do it (then go to GPL, than rewrote the part into AGPL with documentation based informations for datetime). The "fork" term will be remove from all places where Shinken is (where I can edit of course) to put "compatible with" or something similar. Believe me, I do not want a war between our two projects because everyone will lose in this game, and Zabbix/Zenoss will just have more users. If we can cooperate about improvement about configuration or documentation, I will be happy to to it. There is no chance I stopped Shinken project, I'm not related to the Nagios consultant world, and I still want to be a sysadmin (this is the best way to understand the users : be one of them :) ). There still a hope in my mind so theses two projects will merge one day. Jean Gabès > > > Ethan Galstad > President > ___ > Nagios Enterprises, LLC > Office: (888)NAGIOS-1 x701 > Fax: (651)204-9103 > Mobile: (651)278-1477 > Email: ega...@na... > Web: www.nagios.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ThinkGeek and WIRED's GeekDad team up for the Ultimate > GeekDad Father's Day Giveaway. ONE MASSIVE PRIZE to the > lucky parental unit. See the prize list and enter to win: > http://p.sf.net/sfu/thinkgeek-promo > _______________________________________________ > Shinken-devel mailing list > Shi...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/shinken-devel > |
From: nap <nap...@gm...> - 2010-06-23 08:06:00
|
I just think about something : if you really do not want Shinken to be proprietary (even if I say it will never happened if I'm still alive) why not send us some small patchs? With it, you will have control about the license and not letting a proprietary license came. There is some quite easy task in the trac : *add check_period implicitly inherited from host to service https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/shinken/ticket/80 (just add "check_period" to one tab, easy task, 5 minutes max, promise) *Timezone : https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/shinken/ticket/51 I never use it in Nagios, so you are the best person to do it in fact. I think this should not be too hard isn't it? *size limit for checks outputs : https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/shinken/ticket/82 quite easy if you use http://shinken-monitoring.org/doc/development-hackingcode.html to know how add a parameter in the global file (one line) and I can help you on how pass this parameter to pollers It can also show how the code is done, and it's a better explanation about what I said in the december thread in fact :) Jean On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 9:35 AM, nap <nap...@gm...> wrote: > On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 5:11 PM, Ethan Galstad <ega...@na...> wrote: >> I'm just joinging the list, so I can't reply to previous messages as >> normal, so I'll quote one of the recent replies regarding licensing... >> >> nap: >>> LOL, so funny, make me nearly fall from my chair :) >>> >>> You do not really know what Shinken is isn't it? When I say it's a >>> fork, I do not mean I take Nagios code, change the licence (and I'm >>> totally agree that's not possible to change Nagios license, hopefully >>> ;) ) and say : "Hey, I'm totally something totally different". I did >>> not "steal" code (even if I do not like the "steal" usage in a open >>> source context). >>> >>> No. >>> >>> It's a TOTAL reimplementation of the code! I do not take a SINGLE line >>> of the Nagios code. Only the documentation (in fact the doc from >>> monitoring-fr, you know, the ex nagios-fr...) and this part got a >>> LICENSE file of GPLV2. (you should look at this docbook documentation, >>> very good docbook format by the way). >>> >> >> There is no "documentation" that references in detail how to >> programmatically process timeperiod logic for Nagios Core, yet somehow >> this managed to be magically "re-implemented" in the Shinken Python >> code. Pixie dust must be flying on someone's network to have made that >> happen. > Yes, there is no documentation about how datetimes (inside > timeperiods) are defined, but the way timeperiods works is quite > obvious : get the next date, that's all. I look at the Nagios code for > the datetime part so see all the was we can defined them. But not for > the algorithms in it (like find the next date for example, and it ask > me quite a lot of papers to find the good algorithm...). > > So if you are right about the "inspiration" part, and the fact I do > not use the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_room_design technique, > I will put the function asides of the rest of the code and AGPL > licence, and make the documentation, then someone else can wrote them > again. > > We are talking about the comments in the timeperiod.py file, and the > function resolve_daterange function (quite long, was quite not > pythonic after all). All others functions were coded without looking > at how Nagios does in the code (and If I'm not wrong, it's better > because exclusion is not working isn't it?). > > >> >> "Re-implementation" when referencing pre-existing code is still covered >> under copyright laws and protects the original copyright holders. There >> is code all around Shinken that could not have been developed without >> having looked at the C code for Nagios Core as the reference. Downtime, >> macros, timeperiod logic, and other Shinken Python code makes it clear >> that the C code from Nagios Core was used as a reference when >> "re-implementing" Nagios Core. > The only part that take inspiration from the code and not the > documentation is datetime format because like you said it's not > documented. That's all. Timeperiod is not affected by it : I wrote my > own algorithm to find a new date because it was a good challenge for > my algorithm skill. > > For downtime and macros, the documentation was enough. Downtime are > just a check of a timeperiod, and macro are just a reverse hash table > after all. > > For the rest of the Shinken code (the distributed way) I do not see > how it can be inspired by Nagios : one is distributed with graph > management, the other is a daemon with all in it. > >> >> This type of "re-implementation" to a different language with a license >> switch would clearly be considered copyright infringement and you could >> find yourself in deep trouble. Since Nagios Core is GPL, you have >> rights to modify it, but you're required to release those changes/mods >> under the same license. The GPL doesn't grant you rights to >> re-implement under a different license when you use the original GPL >> code as a reference. >> >> Since Shinken was "re-implemented" using the Nagios Core code as a >> reference, it cannot be release under the AGPL - it must be released >> under the GPL license. >> >> You don't have rights to change the GPL license associated with Nagios >> Core without getting permission from every person who has contributed to >> the Nagios Core code over the past decade. Neither do I. Those are >> the rules - plain and simple. >> >> If you're going to live in the world of intellectual property, you need >> to understand the rules that you have to abide by. Just because you're >> an "Open Source" guy doesn't mean you have any right to violate licenses >> as you see fit or make the rules up as you go. > > Yes, I will follow the rules, that why I ask help fro the FSF and to > Richard Stallman about this "inspiration" (not using the clean room > design) between two projects. If I must put this part of code in > GPLv2, it's not a problem. Even if it's in a "gray zone", we will > redone the part of code for the datetime function and class names. > > If you find some other portions of code that cannot be wrote without > the nagios code (so with only the documentation) let me know it. > > By the way I choose the AGPL license because I wanted the maximum of > freedom for the users : if they are monitored by some box, they should > be able to get the code that are monitoring them. I though fully new > code was a opportunity to make a upgrade of the license for the users. > It was really not to offense other developers. > > If you do not want the Shinken project to be a proprietary software, I > also do not want it, believe me. If you fear that Shinken become a new > business challenger : it's not the case, I'm a sysadmin, and a happy > sysadmin. With family things, I can't afford to be a business man and > move every where. > > I see that the term "fork" about Shinken can cause problem to both or > ours projects. I'll take "compatibility with" because that better > shows what it is, and people will not think this is based on the same > code (and so is tested from 10 years because that's no true for > Shinken). > > So finally : let wait for a FSF answer, I think they are better than > every one to say if code inspiration need to keep the same license. If > we need to change it, we will do it (then go to GPL, than rewrote the > part into AGPL with documentation based informations for datetime). > The "fork" term will be remove from all places where Shinken is (where > I can edit of course) to put "compatible with" or something similar. > > Believe me, I do not want a war between our two projects because > everyone will lose in this game, and Zabbix/Zenoss will just have more > users. If we can cooperate about improvement about configuration or > documentation, I will be happy to to it. There is no chance I stopped > Shinken project, I'm not related to the Nagios consultant world, and I > still want to be a sysadmin (this is the best way to understand the > users : be one of them :) ). There still a hope in my mind so theses > two projects will merge one day. > > > Jean Gabès > >> >> >> Ethan Galstad >> President >> ___ >> Nagios Enterprises, LLC >> Office: (888)NAGIOS-1 x701 >> Fax: (651)204-9103 >> Mobile: (651)278-1477 >> Email: ega...@na... >> Web: www.nagios.com >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> ThinkGeek and WIRED's GeekDad team up for the Ultimate >> GeekDad Father's Day Giveaway. ONE MASSIVE PRIZE to the >> lucky parental unit. See the prize list and enter to win: >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/thinkgeek-promo >> _______________________________________________ >> Shinken-devel mailing list >> Shi...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/shinken-devel >> > |
From: nap <nap...@gm...> - 2010-06-25 09:01:10
|
Hi all, I've got the Richard Stallman's answer (and the right to post it of course, that's why I didn't post it yesterday). First mail : <<<<<------ Richard Stallman <rm...@gn...> reply-to rm...@gn... to nap <nap...@gm...> cc lic...@fs... date Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 11:23 PM subject Re: AGPL software reimplementation of a GPLv2 one is allowed? mailed-by gnu.org I am not a lawyer, but I know the answer is not so simple. You can use the algorithms you learn from reading their code, but translating the code into another language would surely infringe copyright. For intermediate possibilities, the answer may not be clear, so you would need to talk with a lawyer for advice. <<<<<<---- EOF And another mail to precise what "inspiration" was : <<<----- Me : Thanks for the answer. The exact case is that I look at the code to look at how some parameters are done (I look at the regexp), but The algorithm to find and parse them is my own. Richard Stallman : In that case, you are probably ok; but I am not a lawyer. You should check with a lawyer if you want real legal advice. APRIL could help you find a French lawyer. <<<<----- EOF So "inspiration" (looking at another algorithm but make your own) is allowed to Richard Stallman (and to all people I talk about this in fact in forums or websites). So get back in our case : I look at regexp of daterange in Nagios code, but I didn't copy/paste/translate them. I use it to look at all formats they can have, so look at the algorithm that "match" patterns. Then I write my own regexp and my own algorithm. And prove it is quite easy : my code is far longer than Nagios one in this algorithm, I use far more regexp than Nagios code (I'm very bad in regexp). So we can't talk about translation. There is one part of Nagios code I copy/translate : the parent circular checks for hosts and I've got the right to do this : it's my patch in Nagios code. So looking at this, I won't change the Shinken license. The users will have the better license for them. If you find a copy/translate code, let me know it so we can re-wrote it. Thanks, Like you should already see, we remove "reimplementation" and "fork" from all places we can. Now Shinken is "compatible with". This should be better for both projects to do not think our codes are inherited. Now I will be back with my loving emacs and Shinken code, but my proposal for patches is still available of course. And this place will still be open for anyone you ant to talk about improvement like realms or other cool things for monitoring users. Regards, Gabès Jean On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 9:35 AM, nap <nap...@gm...> wrote: > On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 5:11 PM, Ethan Galstad <ega...@na...> wrote: >> I'm just joinging the list, so I can't reply to previous messages as >> normal, so I'll quote one of the recent replies regarding licensing... >> >> nap: >>> LOL, so funny, make me nearly fall from my chair :) >>> >>> You do not really know what Shinken is isn't it? When I say it's a >>> fork, I do not mean I take Nagios code, change the licence (and I'm >>> totally agree that's not possible to change Nagios license, hopefully >>> ;) ) and say : "Hey, I'm totally something totally different". I did >>> not "steal" code (even if I do not like the "steal" usage in a open >>> source context). >>> >>> No. >>> >>> It's a TOTAL reimplementation of the code! I do not take a SINGLE line >>> of the Nagios code. Only the documentation (in fact the doc from >>> monitoring-fr, you know, the ex nagios-fr...) and this part got a >>> LICENSE file of GPLV2. (you should look at this docbook documentation, >>> very good docbook format by the way). >>> >> >> There is no "documentation" that references in detail how to >> programmatically process timeperiod logic for Nagios Core, yet somehow >> this managed to be magically "re-implemented" in the Shinken Python >> code. Pixie dust must be flying on someone's network to have made that >> happen. > Yes, there is no documentation about how datetimes (inside > timeperiods) are defined, but the way timeperiods works is quite > obvious : get the next date, that's all. I look at the Nagios code for > the datetime part so see all the was we can defined them. But not for > the algorithms in it (like find the next date for example, and it ask > me quite a lot of papers to find the good algorithm...). > > So if you are right about the "inspiration" part, and the fact I do > not use the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_room_design technique, > I will put the function asides of the rest of the code and AGPL > licence, and make the documentation, then someone else can wrote them > again. > > We are talking about the comments in the timeperiod.py file, and the > function resolve_daterange function (quite long, was quite not > pythonic after all). All others functions were coded without looking > at how Nagios does in the code (and If I'm not wrong, it's better > because exclusion is not working isn't it?). > > >> >> "Re-implementation" when referencing pre-existing code is still covered >> under copyright laws and protects the original copyright holders. There >> is code all around Shinken that could not have been developed without >> having looked at the C code for Nagios Core as the reference. Downtime, >> macros, timeperiod logic, and other Shinken Python code makes it clear >> that the C code from Nagios Core was used as a reference when >> "re-implementing" Nagios Core. > The only part that take inspiration from the code and not the > documentation is datetime format because like you said it's not > documented. That's all. Timeperiod is not affected by it : I wrote my > own algorithm to find a new date because it was a good challenge for > my algorithm skill. > > For downtime and macros, the documentation was enough. Downtime are > just a check of a timeperiod, and macro are just a reverse hash table > after all. > > For the rest of the Shinken code (the distributed way) I do not see > how it can be inspired by Nagios : one is distributed with graph > management, the other is a daemon with all in it. > >> >> This type of "re-implementation" to a different language with a license >> switch would clearly be considered copyright infringement and you could >> find yourself in deep trouble. Since Nagios Core is GPL, you have >> rights to modify it, but you're required to release those changes/mods >> under the same license. The GPL doesn't grant you rights to >> re-implement under a different license when you use the original GPL >> code as a reference. >> >> Since Shinken was "re-implemented" using the Nagios Core code as a >> reference, it cannot be release under the AGPL - it must be released >> under the GPL license. >> >> You don't have rights to change the GPL license associated with Nagios >> Core without getting permission from every person who has contributed to >> the Nagios Core code over the past decade. Neither do I. Those are >> the rules - plain and simple. >> >> If you're going to live in the world of intellectual property, you need >> to understand the rules that you have to abide by. Just because you're >> an "Open Source" guy doesn't mean you have any right to violate licenses >> as you see fit or make the rules up as you go. > > Yes, I will follow the rules, that why I ask help fro the FSF and to > Richard Stallman about this "inspiration" (not using the clean room > design) between two projects. If I must put this part of code in > GPLv2, it's not a problem. Even if it's in a "gray zone", we will > redone the part of code for the datetime function and class names. > > If you find some other portions of code that cannot be wrote without > the nagios code (so with only the documentation) let me know it. > > By the way I choose the AGPL license because I wanted the maximum of > freedom for the users : if they are monitored by some box, they should > be able to get the code that are monitoring them. I though fully new > code was a opportunity to make a upgrade of the license for the users. > It was really not to offense other developers. > > If you do not want the Shinken project to be a proprietary software, I > also do not want it, believe me. If you fear that Shinken become a new > business challenger : it's not the case, I'm a sysadmin, and a happy > sysadmin. With family things, I can't afford to be a business man and > move every where. > > I see that the term "fork" about Shinken can cause problem to both or > ours projects. I'll take "compatibility with" because that better > shows what it is, and people will not think this is based on the same > code (and so is tested from 10 years because that's no true for > Shinken). > > So finally : let wait for a FSF answer, I think they are better than > every one to say if code inspiration need to keep the same license. If > we need to change it, we will do it (then go to GPL, than rewrote the > part into AGPL with documentation based informations for datetime). > The "fork" term will be remove from all places where Shinken is (where > I can edit of course) to put "compatible with" or something similar. > > Believe me, I do not want a war between our two projects because > everyone will lose in this game, and Zabbix/Zenoss will just have more > users. If we can cooperate about improvement about configuration or > documentation, I will be happy to to it. There is no chance I stopped > Shinken project, I'm not related to the Nagios consultant world, and I > still want to be a sysadmin (this is the best way to understand the > users : be one of them :) ). There still a hope in my mind so theses > two projects will merge one day. > > > Jean Gabès > >> >> >> Ethan Galstad >> President >> ___ >> Nagios Enterprises, LLC >> Office: (888)NAGIOS-1 x701 >> Fax: (651)204-9103 >> Mobile: (651)278-1477 >> Email: ega...@na... >> Web: www.nagios.com >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> ThinkGeek and WIRED's GeekDad team up for the Ultimate >> GeekDad Father's Day Giveaway. ONE MASSIVE PRIZE to the >> lucky parental unit. See the prize list and enter to win: >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/thinkgeek-promo >> _______________________________________________ >> Shinken-devel mailing list >> Shi...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/shinken-devel >> > |
From: Frank B. <sh...@tu...> - 2010-06-25 10:28:06
|
Hi, I wrote a private email to Jean. Some aspects I write here as comments to Richard an Jean. On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 08:11:29AM +0200, nap wrote: [...] > First mail : > <<<<<------ > Richard Stallman <rm...@gn...> > reply-to rm...@gn... > to nap <nap...@gm...> > cc lic...@fs... > date Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 11:23 PM > subject Re: AGPL software reimplementation of a GPLv2 one is allowed? > mailed-by gnu.org > > > I am not a lawyer, but I know the answer is not so simple. > > You can use the algorithms you learn from reading their code, but > translating the code into another language would surely infringe > copyright. For intermediate possibilities, the answer may not be > clear, so you would need to talk with a lawyer for advice. > <<<<<<---- EOF In Germany lawyers talk about something called "Schoepfungshoehe" if you want to register a patent. It can be translated with "level of innovation". IMHO this aspect is also important here. Jean looked into Nagios code. But if this code was a "simple" or "standard" algorithm then it will be impossible to claim any rights for it. [...] > Like you should already see, we remove "reimplementation" and "fork" > from all places we can. Now Shinken is "compatible with". This should > be better for both projects to do not think our codes are inherited. Maybe you should specify it more: "compatible with Nagios plugins", "compatible with ..." I think it's better if you don't mention "Nagios" but only "Nagios Plugins", "Nagios API" or something else. No lawyer should think that there's a job for him to be done. ;-) best regards, Frank Bergmann -- EDV Frank Bergmann Tel. 05221-9249753 LPIC-2 Linux Professional Fax 05221-9249754 Elverdisser Str. 25 email ise...@tu... 32052 Herford USt-IdNr DE237314606 |
From: nap <nap...@gm...> - 2010-06-25 12:54:28
|
On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 12:27 PM, Frank Bergmann <sh...@tu...> wrote: > Hi, > > I wrote a private email to Jean. Some aspects I write here as comments to > Richard an Jean. > > On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 08:11:29AM +0200, nap wrote: > [...] >> First mail : >> <<<<<------ >> Richard Stallman <rm...@gn...> >> reply-to rm...@gn... >> to nap <nap...@gm...> >> cc lic...@fs... >> date Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 11:23 PM >> subject Re: AGPL software reimplementation of a GPLv2 one is allowed? >> mailed-by gnu.org >> >> >> I am not a lawyer, but I know the answer is not so simple. >> >> You can use the algorithms you learn from reading their code, but >> translating the code into another language would surely infringe >> copyright. For intermediate possibilities, the answer may not be >> clear, so you would need to talk with a lawyer for advice. >> <<<<<<---- EOF > > In Germany lawyers talk about something called "Schoepfungshoehe" if you > want to register a patent. It can be translated with "level of > innovation". IMHO this aspect is also important here. Jean looked into > Nagios code. But if this code was a "simple" or "standard" algorithm then > it will be impossible to claim any rights for it. > > [...] >> Like you should already see, we remove "reimplementation" and "fork" >> from all places we can. Now Shinken is "compatible with". This should >> be better for both projects to do not think our codes are inherited. > > Maybe you should specify it more: "compatible with Nagios plugins", > "compatible with ..." > > I think it's better if you don't mention "Nagios" but only "Nagios > Plugins", "Nagios API" or something else. No lawyer should think that > there's a job for him to be done. ;-) Good suggestion. "Compatible with Nagios(r) API and plugins"? Is is clear that configuration is in API? Jean > > > best regards, > Frank Bergmann > > -- > > EDV Frank Bergmann Tel. 05221-9249753 > LPIC-2 Linux Professional Fax 05221-9249754 > Elverdisser Str. 25 email ise...@tu... > 32052 Herford USt-IdNr DE237314606 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ThinkGeek and WIRED's GeekDad team up for the Ultimate > GeekDad Father's Day Giveaway. ONE MASSIVE PRIZE to the > lucky parental unit. See the prize list and enter to win: > http://p.sf.net/sfu/thinkgeek-promo > _______________________________________________ > Shinken-devel mailing list > Shi...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/shinken-devel > |
From: nap <nap...@gm...> - 2010-06-25 14:03:00
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After thinking about this, maybe "compatible with Nagios configuration and plugins" is far more explicit. And after all, Shinken is not (yet) compatible with the event broker, so "API compatible" is not true. Jean On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 2:54 PM, nap <nap...@gm...> wrote: > On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 12:27 PM, Frank Bergmann <sh...@tu...> wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I wrote a private email to Jean. Some aspects I write here as comments to >> Richard an Jean. >> >> On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 08:11:29AM +0200, nap wrote: >> [...] >>> First mail : >>> <<<<<------ >>> Richard Stallman <rm...@gn...> >>> reply-to rm...@gn... >>> to nap <nap...@gm...> >>> cc lic...@fs... >>> date Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 11:23 PM >>> subject Re: AGPL software reimplementation of a GPLv2 one is allowed? >>> mailed-by gnu.org >>> >>> >>> I am not a lawyer, but I know the answer is not so simple. >>> >>> You can use the algorithms you learn from reading their code, but >>> translating the code into another language would surely infringe >>> copyright. For intermediate possibilities, the answer may not be >>> clear, so you would need to talk with a lawyer for advice. >>> <<<<<<---- EOF >> >> In Germany lawyers talk about something called "Schoepfungshoehe" if you >> want to register a patent. It can be translated with "level of >> innovation". IMHO this aspect is also important here. Jean looked into >> Nagios code. But if this code was a "simple" or "standard" algorithm then >> it will be impossible to claim any rights for it. >> >> [...] >>> Like you should already see, we remove "reimplementation" and "fork" >>> from all places we can. Now Shinken is "compatible with". This should >>> be better for both projects to do not think our codes are inherited. >> >> Maybe you should specify it more: "compatible with Nagios plugins", >> "compatible with ..." >> >> I think it's better if you don't mention "Nagios" but only "Nagios >> Plugins", "Nagios API" or something else. No lawyer should think that >> there's a job for him to be done. ;-) > Good suggestion. "Compatible with Nagios(r) API and plugins"? Is is > clear that configuration is in API? > > > Jean > >> >> >> best regards, >> Frank Bergmann >> >> -- >> >> EDV Frank Bergmann Tel. 05221-9249753 >> LPIC-2 Linux Professional Fax 05221-9249754 >> Elverdisser Str. 25 email ise...@tu... >> 32052 Herford USt-IdNr DE237314606 >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> ThinkGeek and WIRED's GeekDad team up for the Ultimate >> GeekDad Father's Day Giveaway. ONE MASSIVE PRIZE to the >> lucky parental unit. See the prize list and enter to win: >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/thinkgeek-promo >> _______________________________________________ >> Shinken-devel mailing list >> Shi...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/shinken-devel >> > |
From: Tracy R. <tr...@ul...> - 2010-06-22 05:59:36
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On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 05:27:09PM -0500, Mary Starr spake thusly: > Nagios Core is released under the GPL License. According to the GPL > license, if you use or modify the Nagios Core code it must be released > under the same license. Have you checked to see if they are actually using any Nagios Core code? My understanding is that Shinken is a new and improved re-implementation which is compatible with Nagios plugins and config files. And that it is written in Python. Nagios is written in C as far as I know. I can easily see how they could avoid re-using any Nagios Core code. I am new to Shinken so I don't know. But you don't point to any particular files or lines of code which makes me wonder. -- Tracy Reed http://tracyreed.org |
From: nap <nap...@gm...> - 2010-06-22 06:09:06
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LOL, so funny, make me nearly fall from my chair :) You do not really know what Shinken is isn't it? When I say it's a fork, I do not mean I take Nagios code, change the licence (and I'm totally agree that's not possible to change Nagios license, hopefully ;) ) and say : "Hey, I'm totally something totally different". I did not "steal" code (even if I do not like the "steal" usage in a open source context). No. It's a TOTAL reimplementation of the code! I do not take a SINGLE line of the Nagios code. Only the documentation (in fact the doc from monitoring-fr, you know, the ex nagios-fr...) and this part got a LICENSE file of GPLV2. (you should look at this docbook documentation, very good docbook format by the way). Now in fact I better understand why you treat us as a "bad" fork : we are not really a fork in the classic way as Icinga does. We are a reimplementation of the same ideas in another programming langage. And I don't think monitoring ideas get patent so there is no problem here. You can get the code at http://shinken.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=shinken/shinken;a=summary Stop talking to us like a trolling fork, we are far more than this. This project objective is not to kill Nagios, it's even the opposite and maybe one day you will see it. But we are getting closer to the code, it's good step forward :) I hope talk about technical aspects so much with Ethan! At least something useful for the community and it's something I wanted to talk about from nearly a year. Jean PS: thanks for the AGLv3 typo. PS2: thanks Tracy :) PS3 : still no announce of seedcamp in nagios-devel mailing list, I think there are a lot of project waiting such announce. On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 12:27 AM, Mary Starr <ms...@na...> wrote: > I noticed on your website that Shinken is released under the AGLv3 > License. I think you probably meant AGPLv3? > > Nagios Core is released under the GPL License. According to the GPL > license, if you use or modify the Nagios Core code it must be released > under the same license. This also applies even if you use the Nagios > Core code as a "reference" during re-implementation in another language. > That's how copyright law works worldwide. > > You should therefore change the license to GPL as soon as possible, as a > license change has not been approved by all of the Nagios Core > contributors, and would be considered a violation of the GPL and general > copyright laws as it stands. > > Regards, > > > Mary Starr > Vice President > ___ > Nagios Enterprises, LLC > Office: (888)NAGIOS-1 x702 > Fax: (651)204-9103 > Mobile: (651)206-1575 > Email: ms...@na... > Web: www.nagios.com > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ThinkGeek and WIRED's GeekDad team up for the Ultimate > GeekDad Father's Day Giveaway. ONE MASSIVE PRIZE to the > lucky parental unit. See the prize list and enter to win: > http://p.sf.net/sfu/thinkgeek-promo > _______________________________________________ > Shinken-devel mailing list > Shi...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/shinken-devel > |
From: Sylvain C. <Sylvain@Collilieux.net> - 2010-06-22 08:29:40
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Le Mon, 21 Jun 2010 17:27:09 -0500, Mary Starr <ms...@na...> a écrit : > and would be considered a violation of the GPL and general > copyright laws as it stands. Hopefolly, there is no copyright on stupidity. If you want Nagios still remains the best monitoring tool, keep your energy for speaking with community and coding. What Nagios Entreprise do is pathetic, you're killing Nagios ! -- Sylvain |