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Re: [Semediawiki-user] [SF] How to check for a previously existing property?
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From: Dan B. <dan...@gm...> - 2011-08-29 01:42:28
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On 27 August 2011 03:22, badon <fas...@gm...> wrote: > > OK, I think you just told me something that's going to lead to an epiphany on > my end, but I need some contextual definitions first: > > * class > * sub-class > * instance Sorry, these are terms from data modelling (or abuses of them). Here is a doc I forgot I wrote on the topic of modelling in SMW from the perspective of a relational database (or excel spreadsheet... (why not)): http://seqanswers.com/wiki/Semantic_MediaWiki/Overview I extended this document here: http://smw.referata.com/wiki/Overview_of_Semantic_MediaWiki_and_Semantic_Forms Saruman also wrote a nice doc about 'Classes and Properties in SMW': http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Semantic_MediaWiki_concepts I'd like to write this all up coherently, but I haven't found the time or the place to do it. > * floating forms Check this mailing list. > I think you're saying that I should be OK with breaking things up sort of > into modules that perform various functions in order to produce a navigable > set of data. I'm already doing that to a degree, but I'm trying to bring all > that data into one place for viewing. > > Plus, since SMW does not traverse property chains very well beyond the most > immediate neighbors, especially in the backwards direction, I'm > uncomfortable with getting to crazy with putting data too far away from > where it is most useful. Well, it can be good to focus on more fundamental design flaws rather than jumping through hoops to circumvent them. > Right now, the best example I have of what I'm doing is with images. On any > wiki entry for an object, a person can upload a file using semantic forms. > Clicking the link I have made for this will allow someone to just upload and > name the file, without knowing much about what's going on behind the scenes. > Behind the scenes, I'm assigning a "Belongs to" property to the image so > that the main object page knows who its child images are, and can display > those images automatically. The user does not even need to know how to make > a wiki image link, though that can do that too if they choose. Sounds good. > I suppose I could do the same thing with the object serial number, but that > has issues stemming from the order in which data is to be entered. > > In the example above, images are the last thing that gets entered, so I can > easily prefill all the needed information to make it brain-dead simple for > anyone with no wiki familiarity to do in just a few quick steps. > > I've done a similar thing with creating new object entries in the wiki. You > just go to an object like the one you want to enter, and click a link that > says something to the effect of "Add an object like this". Then, the user is > shown a form where all the non-unique information is prefilled for them. The > don't need to have any understanding of what info goes with what types of > objects, etc. > > That only works as long as there are no intervening steps. You have to go > directly from an object page to a prefilled form for a new, similar object, > in order to get the data that's going to be prefilled. There's a fair bit of > info that needs to be entered in, and even I am finding it most convenient > to do it this way, despite having the ability to do it the hard way if > needed. Unexperienced users can add hundreds of new entries per hour if they > choose to do so, which allows the wiki to be a very comprehensive source of > info. > > Since the serial number must be checked before anything else is done, I > can't prefill the form with info from a similar object that referred the > user to enter in a new object. At least not easily. If I created a page only > for the serial number to be used for dupe checking, and then duplicated all > the properties that's supposed to be prefilled, I could grab that info to be > used in the next step of actually entering in the new data. > > It's doable, I guess, but it sure seems like the hard way. Still, is this > close to the approach that you seem to be suggesting? I get the idea of 'create a similar object', but I have no idea why this involves serial numbers or entering in lots of info. > By breaking out the serial number into its own page, similar to the way > images are already (necessarily) handled on their own pages, I could use > that serial number page to check for uniqueness, and to perform the task of > sending the user to the next step of actually entering new data, if it does > not already exist. > > Is any of this making sense? I hope I'm describing this well, and not > completely off base with what you were trying to tell me. I don't really follow without concrete examples. > I have very little familiarity with SIO, and I'm not sure if it can help me, > or how I would work that into my system. RTFM ;-) > Thanks for your help, I really appreciate it. No problem! This is a mailing list set up so people can help people. It would be weird if I didn't try to help! Cheers, Dan. > Dan Bolser-3 wrote: >> >> On 24 August 2011 19:32, badon <fas...@gm...> wrote: >>> >>> As far as I know, there is not currently a way to check to see if form >>> information has already been entered into a wiki, when using Semantic >>> Forms. >>> I filed a bug report feature request here, to address that: >>> >>> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=30537 >>> >>> In the meantime, I need to find a workaround. >>> >>> I have a case where forms are being used to enter information about >>> objects >>> that have a unique serial number property. When users enter in a new >>> object, >>> I'd like to have a form to check whether there is already an existing >>> object >>> that has the same serial number as the one that a user would like to >>> enter >>> in. The serial number property should always be unique, with only one >>> existing on the wiki. >>> >>> I'm hoping there's a workaround possible where form 1 can take the serial >>> number, and then branch either to the existing page containing that >>> property, or to a new form 2 where the rest of the information can be >>> entered in, and the serial number is already prefilled from the previous >>> form. >>> >>> I'm not sure how to do that. >>> >>> It seems that I would need some way to check for the existence of a >>> serial >>> number property with a specific value. That could be done if the serial >>> number property were a page with a redirect to the object's page that has >>> that serial number. But, if that page does not exist, how do I get to >>> form >>> 2? >>> >>> Then, once at form 2, it would have to create both the object page, and >>> the >>> redirected serial number page. Is that possible? >>> >>> I know about the #ifexist parser function, and the ability for Semantic >>> Forms to check for the existence of a page title (but not properties), to >>> be >>> created with the form if it does not already exist. Right now, the only >>> workaround I can think of would be to have the user go to a Semantic Form >>> to >>> enter in the serial number first. The form would then either make a page >>> with a title that matches the value for the serial number property, or >>> take >>> the user to the existing page. >>> >>> Yaron suggested that the page itself could contain a form, which could be >>> the form for completing the data-entry process for that serial number: >>> >>> http://old.nabble.com/Nested-Forms-to32052038.html >>> >>> But, that would result in a doubling of the number of pages on a wiki, >>> which >>> is a messy way to work around this problem. And, I don't think it's >>> possible >> >> I remember having this concern when I first started using SMW after >> using MW for a long time. You need to create pages in the wiki when >> you need to create pages in the wiki. Don't think of more pages as >> messy and less pages as neat. >> >> It comes down to how you model your data in your wiki, and, sorry to >> say, the problem that you're describing seems to come back down to a >> bad model. >> >> Try to stick to thinking about one form = one class, one page = one >> instance. Use queries and links let users navigate the data-structure. >> As soon as you start trying to overload forms with multiple classes or >> multiple pages, it gets complex, and frankly, beyond the scope of SMW. >> >> The only exception to the above is the ability to add SIO >> 'sub-classes' to a page. This way you have your user fill in one >> 'master' form, then, on the resulting page, present links to add >> sub-classes (sorry if I'm abusing the term 'sub-classes', what I mean >> is, a class that strictly has a 1 to 1 relationship with the 'parent' >> class, see SIO [1] for examples). >> >> There is no problem setting up 'relations' between the class and it's >> sub-classes to display the data in any way you like, and using >> floating forms to populate the SIO objects, the user experience isn't >> bad either. >> >> >> HTH, >> Dan. >> >> [1] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Semantic_Internal_Objects >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> EMC VNX: the world's simplest storage, starting under $10K >> The only unified storage solution that offers unified management >> Up to 160% more powerful than alternatives and 25% more efficient. >> Guaranteed. http://p.sf.net/sfu/emc-vnx-dev2dev >> _______________________________________________ >> Semediawiki-user mailing list >> Sem...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user >> >> > > -- > View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/-SF--How-to-check-for-a-previously-existing-property--tp32328729p32345960.html > Sent from the Semantic Mediawiki - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > EMC VNX: the world's simplest storage, starting under $10K > The only unified storage solution that offers unified management > Up to 160% more powerful than alternatives and 25% more efficient. > Guaranteed. http://p.sf.net/sfu/emc-vnx-dev2dev > _______________________________________________ > Semediawiki-user mailing list > Sem...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user > |