Hi,

Okay, that works - making something an optional setting is always a possibility when the group can't decide on something. :) Out of curiosity, what do you think of Niklas's suggestion, of showing the description instead of the label? That might actually work also - after all, that's how the format dropdown in Special:Ask is already handled; only the descriptions of the formats are shown, not the actual names.

-Yaron

On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 12:32 PM, James HK <jamesin.hongkong.1@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Yaron,

I have spent more time on this now than I actually wanted to but with
change [1] you will have your standard behaviour of showing the text
beneath the input box (as default) but at the same time introduced a
user preference for a Special:Ask tooltip. For power user like me that
don't need text all the time now can opt-in to show a tooltip instead
of the text.

[1] https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/16634/

Cheers

On 7/25/12, Yaron Koren <yaron@wikiworks.com> wrote:
> Hi James,
>
> Thanks for putting those two images together. I actually think that 2nd
> layout, with the descriptions in a smaller font below the input, looks
> totally fine - it would probably look nicer if the descriptions were under
> both the parameter name and the input, but that's a minor point. It's a
> dense layout, but I don't think it's ridiculously so. And of course, this
> page is for the most part meant to be used by administrators and "power
> users" rather than regular users - so I think it's better to err on the
> side of more informative rather than more friendly-looking.
>
> -Yaron
>
> On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 9:42 AM, James HK
> <jamesin.hongkong.1@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi Yaron,
>>
>> >> it just seems like too much work to makes users do
>> Well, their is not much wiggle room in making the Special:Ask layout
>> UI somewhat sane. On the one hand we want people immediately recognize
>> the content that is inherent in an option selected and on the other
>> hand by doing so puts the whole screen under scrutiny for being
>> "unorganised".
>>
>> >> one possibility is just to display them in a smaller font
>> I did a quick test using text (altering the font size did not change
>> much) beneath the input box but depending on the individual text
>> length and a formats available option pool, the Special:Ask becomes a
>> two-page option mine-field where you hardly can focus on the option
>> due to text that is cluttered amongst all options and one scrolling
>> between query and option input. Please have a look at [1], [2] and
>> compare for yourself.
>>
>> >> parameter names by themselves are pretty cryptic
>> Nothing much one can do here.
>>
>> >> I'm really not sure about that hover thing
>> Me neither but what else is there left, if this is not an option?
>>
>> Another option would be to introduce a user preference where one can
>> opt-in/out of the text display but do we really want to do this?
>>
>> [1]
>> https://github.com/mwjames/docs/raw/master/smw-core/special-ask-table-without-text.png
>>
>> [2]
>> https://github.com/mwjames/docs/raw/master/smw-core/special-ask-table-with-text.png
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> mwjames
>>
>> On 7/25/12, Yaron Koren <yaron@wikiworks.com> wrote:
>> > Hi James,
>> >
>> > I just tried this code out now, and I regret not having looked at it
>> > before. I'm really not sure about that hover thing - as Jeroen notes,
>> > it
>> > has usabiility issues, and beyond that, it just seems like too much
>> > work
>> to
>> > makes users do. It would be one thing if the hover were just clarifying
>> > what was already on the page, but in this case the parameter names by
>> > themselves are pretty cryptic - and they're always in English, so if
>> people
>> > don't speak English then they're forced to hover over every parameter.
>> >
>> > Was the issue that the parameter descriptions were taking up too much
>> > of
>> > the page? If so, one possibility is just to display them in a smaller
>> font
>> > instead - that might help readability as well (ironically), since it
>> > wouldn't look as much like a sea of text.
>> >
>> > -Yaron
>> >
>> > On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 6:07 AM, Jeroen De Dauw
>> > <jeroendedauw@gmail.com>wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hey James,
>> >>
>> >> I just merged in your changes, and they are looking great :)
>> >>
>> >> One usability suggestion I have is adding a line of text at the top of
>> >> the
>> >> "other options" box explaining what they are, in particular that you
>> >> can
>> >> cover over their names to get their associated description (as this
>> might
>> >> not be obvious).
>> >>
>> >> And this only occurred to me now, but the WMF has a usability policy
>> >> discouraging use of hover-only features, as they do not work on most
>> >> mobile
>> >> devices. Not sure how to address this issue here though.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Cheers
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Jeroen De Dauw
>> >> http://www.bn2vs.com
>> >> Don't panic. Don't be evil.
>> >> --
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
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