Hey, I'm back from San Francisco and what I find? the Special:Ask discussion is getting hot ;)

I have a few things to input - my experience shows that building universal UI builder is a hard thing to do - Yaron can probably second that. My approach to this problem before was to have subclasses build their own forms and parse their own parameters, similar to how extending MW preferences interface is done.

This is a way to avoid new constants and constraints on input UI parameters for specific query printers, more over, since all of this functionality is implemented in PHP and not reading user-generated content within the pages, I think it makes the most sense to just leave it to subclassing approach which will allow more flexibility for SRF implementors.

Thank you,

        Sergey


--
Sergey Chernyshev
http://www.sergeychernyshev.com/


On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 10:01 AM, Markus Krötzsch <markus@semantic-mediawiki.org> wrote:
I am convinced :-). What remains unclear to me is how to report the expected
input type of a parameter to a UI-creating interface. The types are not really
standard things like "integer" and "string" but also things like "some
template name" or "the name of a property printout in the query". Should we
introduce yet another system of type constants?

-- Markus

On Montag, 6. April 2009, Yaron Koren wrote:
> Hi,
>
> This is great - the self-description/"reflection" feature will be allow for
> a big improvement to Special:Ask (and evidently Halo as well). This, in
> addition to Sergey's previous changes, turns Special:Ask from somewhat of a
> hacker interface to an easy-to-use entry point for those getting started
> with Semantic MediaWiki and inline queries. Actually, the more I think
> about it, the more I think this is a big step forward in turning SMW into a
> real consumer application, since it will mean that people can run (and
> administrators can save) queries on the data without needing to read
> through a lot of documentation.
>
> To that end, I would say that yes, there should be descriptive labels for
> each printer, retrieved from message files - just as there should be labels
> for each parameter. Having good inline help is very common among mature
> software applications - it's considerably easier to use than a user
> handbook. Obviously, it becomes an issue if someone wants to put whole
> paragraphs or even pages into the application, but a simple one-sentence
> description of each concept is, I think, completely reasonable. And I
> should note another veery important reason to put such information into the
> application - to enable translation; which should make creating inline
> queries quite a bit easier for those who can't speak English.
>
> Finally, if you're at all considering adding more meta-data to each
> printer, let me suggest another field: a "default limit" value, which would
> override the wiki's value for $smwgQDefaultLimit (though not a "limit="
> parameter set in the query). This would allow the "math" formats in SRF
> (sum, average, min, max) to considerably raise the number of values passed
> in to them by default, since all of them, especially 'sum', require all
> values to be passed in to produce a meaningful result. It would similarly
> be helpful for 'calendar'. A default limit value could also be helpful for
> the export formats (csv, json, icalendar, rss), although for them there's
> already a workaround because they create, essentially, a link to
> themselves, with that link setting the correct limit.
>
> -Yaron
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 12:24 PM, Markus Krötzsch <
>
> markus@semantic-mediawiki.org> wrote:
> > As promised, SMW has now been updated to support some of the requested
> > functionalities:
> >
> > * To get the list of all available formats, access $smwgResultFormats.
> > * To get a result printer object, use
> > SMWQueryProcessor::getResultPrinter().
> > * To get the name of a printer object, use $printer->getName().
> >
> > The new functions are documented in the code (or see the API docs).
> >
> > The format selector for Special:Ask has been improved to use these
> > features.
> > Note that not all SRF formats provide localised names yet; examples on
> > how to
> > add translations are found in all SMW result printers and in some of the
> > SRF
> > printers.
> >
> > There was also another change: printers that only show download links
> > when used inline can indicate to SMW that no query needs to be executed
> > in this case. To do this, simply implement the method getQueryMode() as
> > e.g. in SMW_QP_CSV.php. If you do not do this, SMW will always compute
> > all query results, even if the printer ignores them anyway.
> >
> > Besides Name and QueryMode, no further meta-data has been added.
> > Especially, I
> > do not know yet how to provide information about available parameters.
> > There
> > is a list of parameter identifiers, but what else should be there for
> > each of
> > them: localised labels, expected type of input, anything else? Also, I
> > was unsure whether longer descriptions besides the names should be
> > available for
> > printers -- doing this feels like moving the user handbook to the message
> > file.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Markus
> >
> > On Donnerstag, 2. April 2009, Markus Krötzsch wrote:
> > > On Mittwoch, 1. April 2009, Yaron Koren wrote:
> > > > I think a way for formats to publish both a description of themselves
> >
> > and
> >
> > > > the set of parameters they take would be very helpful: it could be
> > > > that the easiest way to do it is just to expand the information that
> > > > $smwgResultFormats holds, although maybe the better solution is, as
> > > > you suggest, to add methods like getDescription() and
> > > > getAllowedParams() to the SMWResultPrinter class, and allow any
> > > > format class to override
> >
> > these
> >
> > > > methods.
> > >
> > > I also agree with Jörg's observation. I strongly favour Yaron's second
> > > proposal: extending the printer class instead of extending the static
> > > array. A related solution has been in my mind for some time, but I did
> >
> > not
> >
> > > find time to implement it yet:
> > >
> > > * In order to keep the information that is available for each result
> > > printer flexible and extendible, it would be best if the printer
> > > objects would implement access methods for this information. Two main
> > > advantages are:
> > >
> > > (1) The meta information is kept with the code of the printer class, so
> > > printer format extensions like SRF are still easy to implement in one
> >
> > file.
> >
> > > (2) The abstract result printer parent class can always implement
> >
> > fallback
> >
> > > methods, so that non-core printers are compatible to new SMW versions
> >
> > even
> >
> > > if they do not support this meta-data yet.
> > >
> > > * The task then boils down to getting a printer object for a given
> >
> > printer
> >
> > > identifier (like "ul"). In order to be perfectly compatible with SMW,
> >
> > this
> >
> > > should be done by calling SMWQueryProcessor::getResultPrinter(). The
> > > problem is that this function currently requires further parameters:
> > > especially it depends on the query result. This is not really needed
> > > and can be avoided with some extra coding from my side.
> > >
> > > * What remains to discuss is what meta information it is that each
> >
> > printer
> >
> > > should provide. A human readable name would be a good start, I guess.
> > > Another useful feature might be a function that returns the list of
> > > supported additional parameters with a short "signature" to indicate
> >
> > their
> >
> > > input type (How should this look? How do you get labels/descriptions
> > > for these parameters?). Anything else?
> > >
> > > I think I can provide the implementation over the weekend then.
> > >
> > > -- Markus
> > >
> > > > -Yaron
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 4:25 AM, Jörg Heizmann <heizmann@ontoprise.de>
> >
> > wrote:
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > I am working on our query front-end for inline ask queries which,
> > > > > in the next version, immediately shows your result set while you
> > > > > are creating your query.
> > > > > In order to (dynamically) support all available result printers and
> >
> > to
> >
> > > > > not hardcode all this stuff which might change in the future I
> > > > > found the array holding name and class of each available result
> > > > > printer ($smwgResultFormats). That's pretty cool but I cannot get
> > > > > additional meta information for each printer.
> > > > >
> > > > > I doubt that users understand that "ul" stands for "unordered list"
> >
> > so
> >
> > > > > I would love to have a short description (maybe also a longer one)
> > > > > method for each result printer.
> > > > > Also, some printers support additional parameters which are
> > > > > necessary for the frontend to know about. Here, a second method
> > > > > would be nice
> >
> > to
> >
> > > > > have in order to not hard-code this information.
> > > > >
> > > > > What do you think about these additions?
> > > > >
> > > > > cheers,
> > > > > Jörg
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > > > >-- ----- _______________________________________________
> > > > > Semediawiki-devel mailing list
> > > > > Semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel
> >
> > --
> > Markus Krötzsch
> > Semantic MediaWiki    http://semantic-mediawiki.org
> > http://korrekt.org    markus@semantic-mediawiki.org


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