Mark, you might want to check out Semantic Forms as well - it's different type of fancy UI, but it's useful too ;)

        Sergey


On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 3:46 PM, Marc Feickert <feickertmd@familysearch.org> wrote:
I recommend you check it out. Would be a shame for you to reinvent the wheel. They have produced a wonderful UI layer for SMW.


>>> On 6/24/2008 at 1:44 PM, in message <200806242144.28824.markus@semantic-mediawiki.org>, Markus Krötzsch <markus@semantic-mediawiki.org> wrote:
On Dienstag, 24. Juni 2008, Marc Feickert wrote:
> My understanding was that SMW alone does not set transitive properties
> (hence my comments). I have since learned that Halo provides this layer, so
> my comments are now moot.

Interesting. I am not up to speed on these Halo features. Property chains
(including transitivity) are planned for SMW as well. Maybe we can also align
with Halo in this area.

-- Markus

>
> >>> On 6/24/2008 at 1:01 PM, in message
>
> <9984a7a70806241201l6368cea0xd2ee8982cd310bd@mail.gmail.com>, Sergey
> Chernyshev <semediawiki-user@antispam.sergeychernyshev.com> wrote:
> [[located in::Tokyo::Japan::Asia]] is actually a bad example of data model
> since this is more likely the case for transitive relationships when you
> only need to specify [[located in::Tokyo]] on object's case and [[located
> in::Japan]] on Tokyo page and [[located in::Asia]] on Japan page. Plus you
> need to indicate that "Property:located in" is a transitive property.
>
> So it might be better to specify business case more clearly to get a good
> solution.
>
>         Sergey
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 9:45 AM, Markus Krötzsch
> <markus@semantic-mediawiki.org> wrote:
>
> On Mittwoch, 18. Juni 2008, S Page wrote:
> > Marc Feickert wrote:
> > >  > Yes, amazingly and undocumentedly,
> > >  > [[composer of::musician of::performer of::jazz]]
> > >  > works. I think the help used to document this weird chaining, but
> > >  > it's gone from http://ontoworld.org/wiki/Help:Annotation
> > >  > That style would confuse a lot of human editors.
> > >
> > > So could this work in some fashion in the reverse? Here we have an
> > > example of three properties pointing to the same individual. Can a
> > > shorthand be used to point one property to three individuals? somethign
> > > kind of like:
> > > [[located in::Tokyo::Japan::Asia]]
> > > If this were possible, it would in a sense resolve the
> > > heirarchy/inference problem. It would not be automatic throughout the
> > > system, still manual.
> > >
> > > Can such a thing be done?
> >
> > It could but the risk is existing pages that rely on chaining multiple
> > properties to one value would break.
>
> Yes. I really suggest to not use the name "chaining" here. A "chain"is
> something where one cares about the order of the parts. But semantically
> the following three are the same:
>
> [[composer of::jazz]] [[musician of::jazz]] [[performer of::jazz]]
>
> [[composer of::musician of::performer of::jazz]]
>
> [[musician of::composer of::performer of::jazz]]
>
> The "::" just separates many property names used on the same value. This is
> so, since one would otherwise have to repeat a value on a page to use more
> than one property for it. The availability of subproperties does of course
> make many uses of this obsolete. In the above example, one could state
> that "musician of" is a subproperty of "performer of" and only use the more
> specific one (i.e. musician of) in annotations. But you see that this
> already fails with composer and musician, which are really two different
> relationships.
>
> The "property1::property2::...::value" syntax is in fact very old,
> basically something that SMW had for almost all of its life. So it can
> safely be considered "stable" even if one might rather avoid it if not
> really needed (we often use it in templates though). If you need a name for
> it, then you could call it "property conjunction" since it states that
> property1 AND property2 AND ... all have the same value.
>
> There is no plan to make "chains" with pages in them available; this would
> really be a completely different way of interpreting this syntax. Note that
> we already have (in SVN) a syntax for real property *chains* in #ask
> queries:
>
> {{#ask: [[located in.population::1000]] }}
>
> looks for everything located in a place with a population of 1000. We
> consider making property chains available for knowledge modelling, and this
> syntax could then reappear there.
>
> -- Markus
>
> > Parsing is quirky and hard enough as it is; I think pages should make
> > explicit simple annotations.  You could create a simple
> > [[Template:Located in Tokyo]] that makes all three annotations.
> >
> > You could try to create a query that generates wiki text with semantic
> > annotation, see http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Germany and
> > http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/California   Maybe someone could make
> > a general [[Template:Generate-transitive-annotations]].
> >
> > As I said earlier in the thread, the alternative is to beef up your
> > queries for Located_in.
> >
> > A radically different approach for location would be to write code for
> > http://sandbox.semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Type:Box and support queries
> > for geographical containment and intersection.
> >
> > --
> > =S Page
> >
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> --
> Markus Krötzsch
> Semantic MediaWiki    http://semantic-mediawiki.org (
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> http://korrekt.org ( http://korrekt.org/ )    markus@semantic-mediawiki.org
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