Hi,

I am part of the Aloha Editor team and would like to add my opinion to the discussion.

@HTML5 
I agree with your description about what HTML5 is and its current state. Aloha Editor is based on the contentEditable Feature which first was introduced in the HTML standard with HTML5 even Microsoft implemented that functionality in their IE5.5 in the year 2000 (!) followed by Mozilla in FF2 a few years later. This is also what we claim in the feature page: 

http://aloha-editor.com/features.html#better
"Contenteditable. HTML5 available - now.
Aloha Editor makes HTML5 contenteditable possible - now. All major browsers support contenteditable. But they provide no interface or even break the HTML source code. Contenteditable is the heart of Aloha Editor and makes it to worlds most advanced Editor. With Aloha Editor you are one step closer to the exciting new world that comes with HTML5. The future of content editing. Available now with Aloha Editor."

We commit to the HTML5 standard on all issues touching inline editing. We implement the HTML5 tags and don't implement the HTML4 deprecated ones. Further more we comply to xHTML5 which brings some more issues to consider:  JS document.write is not allowed for instance or namespaces handling. I admit that we have some bugs, but the project in an early stage and we highly focus on fixing them and release a production ready version in autumn.


@SEMANTICS 
The Editor is an HTML Editor indeed, but we support xHTML and don't want to give the user access to the source. So any developer may have full control about what happens in the DOM and when and where. I think this could make it an option when considering to edit semantic content. We actually implemented a "scope" concept which may help you as developer to know in which semantic scope the cursor or selection is and you may react with the menu items or the property items. The guys from midgard tried a semantic implementation out the last days and Henri wrote a summary on his blog http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/aloha_and_the_art_of_semantic_web_content/

I would highly appreciate if you would consider Aloha Editor as user interaction interface and I will answer all your question if you have any regarding editing semantic content. Aloha Editor is in an early development stage and we can adopt functionality if needed. But we need feedback from developers which try it out and touch real problems during implementation efforts to do so.

Thank you.

all best 
haymo


Von: "Daniel Friesen" <lists@nadir-seen-fire.com <mailto:lists@nadir-seen-fire.com>>
An: "Semantic Mediawiki developer list" <semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net <mailto:semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>>
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 22. Juli 2010 21:09:19
Betreff: Re: [SMW-devel] Fwd: New HTML5 editor

*sigh* Time to knock off some of these items...

dual-licensing like that /is/ legal as long as you hold the copyright
for the software.
So it only works as long as every piece of code committed to the project
was written by them, the contributor released their personal copyright
to them, or signed a release that allowed them to release it under those
terms.

Personally I despise that practice, it's either open-source or not open
source... as far as I'm concerned that kind of practice is not
open-source. Namely because it inhibits the ability to collaborate
openly on something. If someone checks out the open-source code, makes a
pile of improvements to it... unless they decide to give up their rights
to that code to the company that originally created it, that code cannot
be incorporated back into the original without forking the project in a
way that said contribution is only available for people using the AGPL
version.
Though, I suppose that's the opinion of someone who releases his own
open-source code under the MIT license instead of the GPL.


Next... this fud about html5 going around is annoying...
html5 is touted by plenty of projects, pretty much whenever a project
switches to "<!DOCTYPE html>" they instantly claim html5 as bragging
rights, it doesn't really change much at all about the project. (besides
shrugging off xml hype that's really tag soup and ditching a lot of
unnecessary markup)
html5 is NOT in it's infancy. html5 is a large spec covering things that
are already speced, standardizing de facto features that browsers have
already implemented and are simply now being put into spec form, new
features that have already been adopted into implementation by browsers,
and new features that have not yet been implemented by browsers. On top
of that "html5" is used to describe things like WebSockets, WebWorkers,
etc... which aren't even part of the html5 spec.
"Using html5" can mean anything from using the doctype, to using already
existing de facto features that are simply being standardized, to using
new features like canvas which are already implemented enough they are
fairly reasonable to use if you have a reason to, to using newer
features like WebSockets which have an implementation but haven't made
their way to other browsers yet.
html5 may have a far away "completion" date, but thats the date for
absolutely everything... portions of the spec are already ready for, and
intended for use today.
Bragging about html5 or trying to dismiss something because they brag
about html5 means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING unless you are discussing precisely
which of the many things that are called "html5" is actually being used.
By the way, innerHTML and the api wysiwyg editors have to make use of to
provide wysiwyg ARE html5 specified.

Oh, for the record, MediaWiki has already gone "html5", it's already in
trunk and eventually it'll be turned on by default.


And finally... that editor is a html editor. Trying to make a html
wysiwyg editor work with WikiText is already enough of a mess, current
WYSIWYG still doesn't quite measure up, and the dynamic nature of that
editor is liable to make it even harder to integrate, bordering on the
impossible.

~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://daniel.friesen.name]

Alex Kozak wrote:
IANAL, but I think a dual-licensing is fine as long as the AGPL is
compatible with MediaWiki (whatever that means).

AK

On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 9:05 AM, Laurent Alquier
<laurent-TkNWMtFDYfhAfugRpC6u6w@public.gmane.org <mailto:laurent-TkNWMtFDYfhAfugRpC6u6w@public.gmane.org>
<mailto:laurent-TkNWMtFDYfhAfugRpC6u6w@public.gmane.org>> wrote:


(do over as a forward to the list and not a simple reply).

I agree on both accounts - the licensing seems problematic for
corporate use and HTML 5 is still very much in its infancy.

I can also add another comment :

- Rich text editors still need significant improvements to handle
MediaWiki tags (and semantic tags). Would such an editor be open
enough to plugins or extensions to support additional tags ?

- Laurent

On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 11:57 AM, Yaron Koren <yaron57@gmail.com <mailto:yaron57@gmail.com>
<mailto:yaron57-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>> wrote:

Hi,

This looks interesting. I have two main comments/questions
about it:

- I don't know if the license for Aloha Editor is compatible
with MediaWiki - it has a dual license, of AGPL for
open-source plus a commercial license:

http://www.aloha-editor.org/license.html

I'm far from a license expert - would that work, or not?

- It uses HTML5, i.e. everyone's favorite semi-nonexistent
technology. My understanding is that HTML5 is partly supported
by various browsers, though not IE. Is it too early to talk
about HTML5 in the context of MediaWiki?

-Yaron


On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 9:56 AM, Krabina Bernhard
<krabina-t2BvwToS7eFeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org <mailto:krabina-t2BvwToS7eFeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
<mailto:krabina-t2BvwToS7eFeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>> wrote:

Hi,

please have a look at this new editor:
http://www.aloha-editor.org/

Maybe this would be a nice feature for MediaWiki in
general and Semantic Forms in particular...

regards,
Bernhard




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Why is there a picture in my signature?

My picture should remind you that the content you are reading has been written by me - especially for you. I'm writing to you personally because you are important to me. I chose e-mail as tool to get in touch with you. My picture in the signature brings me one step closer to you. You can see me, the person who's message you are reading. Another step closer is my twitter status in the signature. It gives you an idea about what's on my mind right now. Hey - maybe you find it interesting, then reply and tell me what's on your mind!
Maybe you want to know more about creative and vivid communication with today's tools. Then get in touch with me as well! To reply now click here.
Last but not least reason for this signature is that an e-mail signature can be more, than the usual legal notice. I guess you are aware of this email beeing private, confidential, privileged and only for the above mentioned addressee and if you receive this e-mail in error, please advise me immediately and delete the message. I don't have to tell you that any more. And for sure you know that unless confirmed in writing, duly signed by an authorized representative of Gentics Software GmbH, any liability is excluded.
Although taking according measures, complete safety from viruses cannot be guaranteed. Any liability for damages resulting from or in connection with virus infections is excluded. Forum for all disputes out of or in connection with our services is the competent court for the First District, City of Vienna, Austria. Any agreements and all services are governed to the extent or as permitted by Austrian law. Visit Gentics on http://gentics.com. See you ;)
Gentics Software GmbH, Gonzagagasse 11/25, 1010 Vienna, FN 199328f, ATU49912901