You could also look at the traffic hits coming in to Ontoworld; the "Special:Version" SMW row has links to there, and all it takes is one person to click on that link for you to find out about a site. That's how I often found out about sites that used Semantic Forms, back when SF's version text linked to Discourse DB, as opposed to a mediawiki.org page like it does now (alas).

-Yaron


On Feb 12, 2008 5:52 AM, Markus Krötzsch <mak@aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de> wrote:
On Dienstag, 12. Februar 2008, Sergey Chernyshev wrote:
> Basically there are two ways to resolve this - first is to invade peoples
> privacy and just calling your web service and second is to add a button
> into Special:SMWAdmin.
>
> First one is actually not that bad if you allow disabling it and document
> it clearly in "Install" section.

I think "invading peoples privacy" is not something we need to discuss. SMW is
committed to preserve users' privacy. (But I think I still get your point.)

Of course a web-service really would just need to know the publicly reachable
URL of a wiki. If the wiki then is configured to not reveal statistic data,
or not to gain access to certain services (robots.txt), then no further data
would be obtained. Yet, I think automated announcement of SMWs is not
desirable, but one could at least make it very easy to announce a new wiki.

We could also think about how one can detect SMWs via Google. As I said,
Special:Version is no good, but other features introduced by SMW may work.

But first of all, it would be helpful to have a small system that can actually
manage announced public SMWs: given a wiki base-URL, it should be able to
retrieve the wiki's (semantic) statistics and extension versions
automatically (respecting robots.txt), and to provide this data via some web
interface. We could also connect this wiki registry with SMW on
semantic-mediawiki.org.

>
> Another solution is to make SMWAdmin a useful page for admins to go to,
> similar to Wordpress dashboard and make that page load news, check latest
> version and notify admin about updates and so on.

That would indeed be intersting, but needs some added functions. Embedding RSS
and other external semantic data into SMW wikis certainly is on our list of
future features anyway ...

Markus

>
>            Sergey
>
> On Feb 11, 2008 9:02 AM, Markus Krötzsch <mak@aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de> wrote:
> > On Freitag, 8. Februar 2008, Sergey Chernyshev wrote:
> > > BTW, I noticed that you added Special:SemanticStatistics and updated
> > > http://ontoworld.org/wiki/Sites_using_Semantic_MediaWiki to have "SS"
> >
> > link
> >
> > > next to each entry for the site (very few are operational,
> >
> > unfortunately).
> >
> > > Also, is there any automated way to add sites to that list?
> >
> > No.
> >
> > > Do you have any
> > > way to tell where SMW is installed? With versions and stuff?
> >
> > No, and that is our grief. We have almost no way of finding SMW instances
> > even
> > if they are public and online. Special:Version is not indexed by Google,
> > and
> > many people hide the Factbox.
> >
> > We may set up an optional registration web service that can be used to
> > announce an SMW wiki without all the pinging (in principle, we could do
> > the
> > pinging ourselves if we just knew the URL of a wiki). But that is not
> > available yet. An automated statistics update could probably go with that
> > web
> > service. I think having a well-kept list of existing SMW's would also be
> > useful to augment the docu of SMW by providing example wikis. Maybe
> > semantic-mediawiki.org should have a "Semantic Wiki of the Month" or
> > something similar. ;-)
> >
> > But currently we really rely on people telling us where SMW runs.
> >
> > Markus
> >
> > >          Sergey
> > >
> > > On Feb 7, 2008 9:07 AM, Markus Krötzsch <mak@aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de>
> >
> > wrote:
> > > > Newsflash: More than 11,500 SMW-documents registered. SMW takes over
> >
> > DOAP
> >
> > > > to
> > > > become the 7th most widely used semantic web schema!
> > > >   http://pingthesemanticweb.com/stats/namespaces.php
> > > > ;-)
> > > >
> > > > Obviously some people already started the script. Thanks a lot,
> > > > especially to
> > > > <http://sydneydirectory.org> which is the largest semantic wiki that
> >
> > did
> >
> > > > the
> > > > ping so far! I strongly believe there is potential in getting one
> > > > position further up in the ranking: the next milestone is SIOC at
> >
> > 70,000
> >
> > > > (since OWL moves up with SMW).
> > > >
> > > > (Please don't take me too seriously here, the absolute numbers are
> > > > not reliable for the other vocabularies either; it's still fun to do
> > > > the comparison ;-)
> > > >
> > > > -- Markus
> > > >
> > > > On Donnerstag, 7. Februar 2008, Markus Krötzsch wrote:
> > > > > On Mittwoch, 6. Februar 2008, Sergey Chernyshev wrote:
> > > > > > Markus, I believe this kind of pings should be happening upon
> >
> > update,
> >
> > > > not
> > > >
> > > > > > on a nightly basis.
> > > > >
> > > > > Oh, I did not mean to suggest that you do that every night! We
> > > > > would
> >
> > be
> >
> > > > > very happy if people on this list would do it once for their wikis,
> > > > > just
> > > >
> > > > to
> > > >
> > > > > get a basic overview of the rough amount of semantic wiki data
> >
> > around.
> >
> > > > > (Currently the ping-script does not even consider the time when a
> >
> > page
> >
> > > > was
> > > >
> > > > > last edited.)
> > > > >
> > > > > > Can you incorporate it into saving process?
> > > > >
> > > > > One could do that, but this would require to contact an external
> >
> > server
> >
> > > > on
> > > >
> > > > > each update, just like blogs do it. Not sure whether this is
> >
> > desirable
> >
> > > > for
> > > >
> > > > > a wiki in general. But there is an API for that [1]. Another option
> > > >
> > > > would
> > > >
> > > > > be to set up an independent registration server for SMW, and to
> > > > > ping
> > > >
> > > > only
> > > >
> > > > > once for each wiki. Pinging does not reveal any non-public
> >
> > information
> >
> > > > > anyway, so a crawler that knowns SMW could also easily ping all
> >
> > pages.
> >
> > > > > Now that I think about it, we could include such a one-time-ping as
> >
> > an
> >
> > > > > option in SMW's adminsettings ...
> > > > >
> > > > > Markus
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [1] http://pingthesemanticweb.com/api.php
> > > > >
> > > > > >          Sergey
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Feb 6, 2008 2:07 PM, Markus Krötzsch
> > > > > > <mak@aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de
> > > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > Dear developers,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I did not see many people who did ping the semantic web yet
> >
> > (email
> >
> > > > > > > below).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In short, just run the maintenance script SMW_pingSemWeb.php:
> > > > > > >   php SMW_pingSemWeb.php -h http://ontoworld.org -t ptsw,sind
> > > > > > > with "http://ontoworld.org" being your server basename (no
> >
> > path).
> >
> > > > > > > Doing this would help us to get a better lower estimate about
> >
> > how
> >
> > > > much
> > > >
> > > > > > > SMW-based semantic data is out there, and we would really
> > > > > > > appreciate that. Again, note that this does not expose any data
> > > > > > > that is not
> > > >
> > > > public
> > > >
> > > > > > > yet anyway.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thank you for supporting the project,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Markus
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > P.S. You can find the results at
> > > > > > > http://pingthesemanticweb.com/stats/namespaces.php (your wiki
> > > > > > > should rise up
> > > > > > > there instantly :-)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Mittwoch, 23. Januar 2008, Markus Krötzsch wrote:
> > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > SMW 1.0 comes with a feature to announce your semantic data
> > > > > > > > to Semantic
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Web
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > search engine crawlers. This enables semantic search engines
> >
> > to
> >
> > > > work
> > > >
> > > > > > > with
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > your data, and it also spreads your content and URLs to some
> >
> > more
> >
> > > > > > > > places
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > on
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > the web.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thus, if you run a public semantic wiki, you may want run the
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > maintenance
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > script SMW_pingSemWeb.php. Example:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >    php SMW_pingSemWeb.php -h http://ontoworld.org -t
> > > > > > > > ptsw,sind
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -h must be *your* domain, without any path (*not*
> > > > > > > > http://ontoworld.org/wiki) -t is a list of services to
> > > > > > > > notify, possible values currently are: ptsw
> > > >
> > > > http://pingthesemanticweb.com
> > > >
> > > > > > > > (this site nicely shows your input) sind
> > > > > > > > http://sindice.com(allows
> > > > > > > > <http://sindice.com%28allows>searches, not tested) (you are
> > > > > > > > of course free to unselect any of those, depending on
> > > >
> > > > which
> > > >
> > > > > > > > service you want to support; but both are closer to research
> > > >
> > > > efforts
> > > >
> > > > > > > than
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > to commercial use)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > More parameters (esp. start id/end id to continue cancelled
> >
> > runs)
> >
> > > > are
> > > >
> > > > > > > > documented in script file [1].
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Maybe I should emphasise that the script does only point the
> > > >
> > > > services
> > > >
> > > > > > > > to your OWL/RDF sources, but it does not send any further
> >
> > data.
> >
> > > > > > > > So
> > > >
> > > > it
> > > >
> > > > > > > > will
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > not
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > expose any non-public information. Also none of the above
> > > > > > > > services
> > > >
> > > > is
> > > >
> > > > > > > > affiliated with SMW or Karlsruhe University. Finally, the
> >
> > script
> >
> > > > > > > requires
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > some time due to many small http-calls, but it needs only
> > > > > > > > very
> > > >
> > > > little
> > > >
> > > > > > > > bandwidth and CPU.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Summing up, my suggestion to you is to bomb the semantic web
> >
> > with
> >
> > > > > > > > your data ;-) Have fun (look up pingthesemanticweb.com to see
> > > > > > > > your wiki's namespace statistics)!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Markus
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > P.S. If you also have another public service we should add to
> > > > > > > > this
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > script,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > feel free to say so.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > [1]
> >
> > http://svn.wikimedia.org/svnroot/mediawiki/trunk/extensions/SemanticMed
> >
> > > > > > >ia Wi
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >ki/maintenance/SMW_pingSemWeb.php
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Markus Krötzsch
> > > > > > > Institut AIFB, Universität Karlsruhe (TH), 76128 Karlsruhe
> > > > > > > phone +49 (0)721 608 7362          fax +49 (0)721 608 5998
> > > > > > > mak@aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de          www  http://korrekt.org
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > > > > > >-- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
> > > > > > > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
> > > > > > > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Semediawiki-devel mailing list
> > > > > > > Semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Markus Krötzsch
> > > > Institut AIFB, Universität Karlsruhe (TH), 76128 Karlsruhe
> > > > phone +49 (0)721 608 7362          fax +49 (0)721 608 5998
> > > > mak@aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de          www  http://korrekt.org
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > > > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
> > > > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
> > > > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Semediawiki-devel mailing list
> > > > Semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel
> >
> > --
> > Markus Krötzsch
> > Institut AIFB, Universität Karlsruhe (TH), 76128 Karlsruhe
> > phone +49 (0)721 608 7362          fax +49 (0)721 608 5998
> > mak@aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de          www  http://korrekt.org
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
> > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
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> > _______________________________________________
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> > Semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel



--
Markus Krötzsch
Institut AIFB, Universität Karlsruhe (TH), 76128 Karlsruhe
phone +49 (0)721 608 7362          fax +49 (0)721 608 5998
mak@aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de          www  http://korrekt.org

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