ÞÅÔ×ÅÒÇ, 1 Á×ÇÕÓÔÁ 2013 Ç. ÐÏÌØÚÏ×ÁÔÅÌØ š<reduce-algebra-developers-request@lists.sourceforge.net> ÐÉÓÁÌ:

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> Today's Topics:

>

> š š1. Re: reduce-algebra vs Mathematica (Tony Roberts)

> š š2. reduce file vim support (Peng Yu)

> š š3. Re: reduce file vim support (Arthur Norman)

> š š4. Re: reduce-algebra vs Mathematica (Raffaele Vitolo)

> š š5. Re: REDUCE error complaints (Rainer Sch?pf)

> š š6. Recent Updates to crack package (Rainer Sch?pf)

> š š7. Re: Recent Updates to crack package (Rainer Sch?pf)

> š š8. Rule f1(~x)+f1(~y)=> f(x+y) for Reduce (abpetrov)

>

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> Message: 1

> Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 10:20:28 +0930

> From: Tony Roberts <anthony.roberts@adelaide.edu.au>

> Subject: Re: [Reduce-algebra-developers] reduce-algebra vs Mathematica

> To: reduce-algebra-developers@lists.sourceforge.net

> Message-ID: <51C4F4D4.5020303@adelaide.edu.au>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

>

>

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

> Hash: SHA1

>

> Hi all,

>

> I had a student who was keen on Mathematica, so I set him the side

> challenge of comparing it with Reduce on the class of problems we were

> doing. šThe following is our conclusion (finally due to be published

> soon in the J. Engrg Maths)

>

> Tony

>

> Reduce was much faster š šComputational experiments found that the

> computer algebra package Reduce was at least an order of magnitude

> faster than Mathematica. Table 3 lists the computational time for the

> Reduce and the Mathematica implementation for constructing O???4,?2??

> holistic models of the one dimensional Ginzburg?Landau equation with

> subgrid resolutions of 2, 4, 8 and 16 subgrid intervals. These times

> were observed on a Pentium III, 750MHz processor, with 256 Mb ram,

> running Reduce 3.7, under Windows XP. Table 3 shows the Reduce

> implementation was 20?70 times faster than the Mathematica

> implementation (even with the repeated help of the Mathematica news

> group). Thus we use the free package Reduce [18].

>

> Table 3: Reduce and Mathematica computational times for numerical

> construction of O???4,?2?? holistic models of the one dimensional

> Ginzburg?Landau equation for various subgrid scale resolutions, n.

> n Reduce Mathematica

> 2 1.1s 70.2s

> 4 3.1s 215.4s

> 8 8.3s 367.6s

> 16 23.7s š517.7 s

>

> On 22/06/13 5:51 AM, Peng Yu wrote:

>> Hi,

>>

>> My question is not a developer question. But the forum on sf is

>> just inconvenience to use.

>>

>> Reduce-algebra is very capable and free (but the gui is bad, it

>> fa. There are recent papers using it. But it is Mathematica is more

>> used. Has anybody compared the pros and cons of reduce-algebra vs

>> Mathematica? (I don't find a comparison.) Thanks.

>>

>

> - --

> - ---------------------------------------------------------------------

> Professor A.J. Roberts

> School of Mathematical Sciences šphone: +61 8 8313 3035

> University of Adelaide š š š š š fax: š +61 8 8313 3696

> South Australia 5005. š š š š š šmailto:anthony.roberts@adelaide.edu.au

> http://www.maths.adelaide.edu.au/anthony.roberts/

> ==.0000001000000100000110001000011010001111110010111011101000010000==

>

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> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

>

> iEYEARECAAYFAlHE9NQACgkQ7TX8dTbro1vlawCfSbqwDmooT4wlivCai2hqjmWh

> 07UAnRMuwc4lXVHPoEtnGeWj5hk/Npfs

> =vh2h

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>

>

>

> ------------------------------

>

> Message: 2

> Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2013 23:30:06 -0500

> From: Peng Yu <pengyu.ut@gmail.com>

> Subject: [Reduce-algebra-developers] reduce file vim support

> To: reduce-algebra-developers@lists.sourceforge.net

> Message-ID:

> š š š š <CABrM6wkCF7x50_8fKhagzoEHO6RDaYdDwYGEo3z--6u59fi2rg@mail.gmail.com>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

>

> Hi,

>

> I'm wondering if there are any vim files (syntax and indent) for

> reduce. It would be helpful if one can point me where they are if they

> are available.

>

> --

> Regards,

> Peng

>

>

>

> ------------------------------

>

> Message: 3

> Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 07:55:10 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time)

> From: Arthur Norman <acn1@cam.ac.uk>

> Subject: Re: [Reduce-algebra-developers] reduce file vim support

> To: Peng Yu <pengyu.ut@gmail.com>

> Cc: reduce-algebra-developers@lists.sourceforge.net

> Message-ID: <alpine.WNT.2.00.1306220752310.5688@panamint>

> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

>

> On Fri, 21 Jun 2013, Peng Yu wrote:

>> Hi,

>>

>> I'm wondering if there are any vim files (syntax and indent) for

>> reduce. It would be helpful if one can point me where they are if they

>> are available.

>>

> There are emacs ones (in the source tree look in generic/emacs) and maybe

> some useful person would look at those and submit back to us vim

> sort of equivalent?

> š š š Arthur

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------

>

> Message: 4

> Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 23:41:00 +0200

> From: Raffaele Vitolo <raffaele.vitolo@unisalento.it>

> Subject: Re: [Reduce-algebra-developers] reduce-algebra vs Mathematica

> To: reduce-algebra-developers@lists.sourceforge.net

> Message-ID: <51C76B6C.4010408@unisalento.it>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

>

> Dear All,

>

> I started to use Reduce a few years ago for computations on PDEs

> ("integrable systems").

>

> First of all I'd like to say that GUI is completely useless for

> intensive scientific computation; however, it might be comfortable for

> beginners or for occasional users.

>

>>> There are recent papers using it. But it is Mathematica is more used.

>>> Has anybody compared the pros and cons of reduce-algebra vs

>>> Mathematica? (I don't find a comparison.) Thanks.

>

> As an example, in my computations I had to deal with rational functions

> of many variables and denominators of degree ~20. Together with a

> colleague we tried the same computation on Mathematica and Reduce, it

> was the sum of two rational functions as above; it was impossible to

> finish it it Mathematica, while Reduce produced a correct result in a

> reasonable time. Another feature that I like so much in Reduce is the

> fact that expressions are always evaluated keeping into account all

> existing rules. I do not think that this behaviour is so easy to

> reproduce in Mathematica. If you work with a lot of algebraic

> constraints this is an essential feature.

>

> I also think that the Reduce user base is much wider than what is shown

> by the activity on this mailing list, I know a lot of users who are not

> active here.

>

>> I think that different people are motivated by very different aspects of

>> the two systems. Here is my start at a few thoughts, but note very well

>> that somebody employed by Mathematica or Maple, or working on Axiom, or

>> who had used Maxima for years and years would put things differently (and

>> could still be right!). You specifically ask about Mathematica but I may

>> raise points that put Reduce in a broader context of other systems too...

>

> I think that the economic aspect is important but it is minor with

> respect to:

> 1 - having the possibility to learn from source code;

> 2 - having an almost immediate reaction from the community about bug fixing.

> In particular I was always strongly and timely helped by Arthur Norman

> who fixed several problems in Reduce that I noticed in quite complicated

> computations, using many GB of ram. I think that also commercial

> programs like Mathematica suffer from the presence of lots of bugs; I do

> not think that the support of Mathematica would be as fast as the

> support from the free software community.

>

> I'm not fond of ideologies, but I do not think that there is anything

> better than free software for learning/teaching/scientific purposes.

>

> Raffaele.

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------

>

> Message: 5

> Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2013 02:05:50 +0200 (CEST)

> From: Rainer Sch?pf <rainer.schoepf@gmx.net>

> Subject: Re: [Reduce-algebra-developers] REDUCE error complaints

> To: Jarmo Hietarinta <hietarin@utu.fi>

> Cc: "reduce-algebra-developers@lists.sourceforge.net"

> š š š š <reduce-algebra-developers@lists.sourceforge.net>

> Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1306290158590.1385@wintermute.proteosys>

> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

>

> On Wed, 19 Jun 2013 at 14:07 -0000, Jarmo Hietarinta wrote:

>

> š> Dear REDUCE developers,

> š>

> š> > There are maybe several categories of Reduce users:

> š> > (1) One where however large or serious their work is it happens that

> š> > recent upgrades and bug-fixes are not especially important for their

> š> > usage. Such people can range from small scale casual users to those who

> š> > have used Reduce since the 1970s - if versions from the 70s, 80s and 90s

> š> > were useful for them it could be that increments over the last while are

> š> > not that vital but stability may matter more!

> š>

> š> I belong to this category, having worked with Reduce since 1982 and still almost daily.

> š> I am glad to know that Reduce is still being developed and bugs fixed.

> š>

> š> I wonder whether you could with the new version also eliminate some annoying features, namely:

> š>

> š> 1) When I give command part(xx,yy) and xx does not have that many parts, Reduce respond by printing the whole (humongous) expression

> š>

> š> *** Expression a**12 + 12*a**11*(b + c + d + 1) + 66*a**10*(b**2 + 2*b*c + 2*b*d

> š> ----------- hundreds of lines -------------

> š> 10 + 220*d**9 + 495*d**8 + 792*d**7 + 924*d**6 + 792*d**5 + 495*d**4 + 220*d**3

> š> + 66*d**2 + 12*d + 1 does not have part 500

> š>

> š> Printing the long expression prevents me from seeing previous calculation and is not very informative either.

> š> It would be quite sufficient to print "*** The expression given does not have part 500"

> š>

> š> The same behaviour is with "factorize" and perhaps it is a deep general feature.

> š> The default should be a more laconic error statement without printing the whole expression.

>

> That's a good idea, at least in interactive mode. šI think we should store the

> expression in some global variable and print something like

>

> š *** Expression errexpr!* does not have part 500

>

> With "off int", I'd rather print the complete expression.

>

> Note that the whole error printing mechanism needs some work; we've just come

> across another cases where the error message is lost completely when an error

> is caught. Storing the expression would help here as well.

>

> š Rainer

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------

>

> Message: 6

> Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2013 02:18:39 +0200 (CEST)

> From: Rainer Sch?pf <rainer.schoepf@gmx.net>

> Subject: [Reduce-algebra-developers] Recent Updates to crack package

> To: reduce-algebra-developers@lists.sourceforge.net

> Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1306290207060.1385@wintermute.proteosys>

> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed

>

> The test files for packages crack, conlaw and applysym do no longer match the

> test output; the liepdf test file never ends.

>

> Could this please be corrected?

>

> š š Rainer

>

>

>

> ------------------------------

>

> Message: 7

> Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2013 11:28:15 +0200 (CEST)

> From: Rainer Sch?pf <rainer.schoepf@gmx.net>

> Subject: Re: [Reduce-algebra-developers] Recent Updates to crack

> š š š š package

> To: reduce-algebra-developers@lists.sourceforge.net

> Message-ID:

> š š š š <alpine.DEB.2.02.1306291126390.3352@localhost6.localdomain6>

> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

>

> Addendum: the test output for the crack package test file differs between the

> CSL and PSL runs. A bad sign, I believe.

>

> š Rainer

>

>

>

> ------------------------------

>

> Message: 8

> Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 09:59:35 +0000

> From: abpetrov <abpetrov@ufacom.ru>

> Subject: [Reduce-algebra-developers] Rule f1(~x)+f1(~y)=> f(x+y) for

> š š š š Reduce

> To: reduce-algebra-developers@lists.sourceforge.net

> Message-ID: <51FA3187.5040703@ufacom.ru>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

>

> Hi,

> I am new in Reduce, so I ask forgive me this question, it is may be simple.

> I am trying to define rule for an operator

>

> operator f1;

> r1 := {f1(~x)+f1(~y)=> f(x+y)};

>

> but when i try to use it

>

> ( f1(x) + f1(y) where r1 );

>

> i have error message

>

> ***** Unmatched free variable(s) ~y

>

> Is it possible to define rule for such operation ( not for

> f(~x+~y)=>f(x)+f(y), there isn't problem here)?

>

>

> So please help me.

>

> Best regards, Petrov Alexander.

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