Thread: [Rainbowportal-devel] installation still needs a LOT of improvement
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From: Chris F. <ch...@cf...> - 2004-10-31 19:13:20
|
Guys, I have seen this go on for way too long. There has been progress made but there is still a way to go and there can be some simple steps taken that would really help Rainbow. 1: Help the newbies in the forums. I'm finding messages that are weeks old with zero responses for basic beginner difficulties! I try to respond when I can but I often do not know the answer. There is no excuse for having unanswered questions in the installation part of the forum, none. With the exception of a small group of people seems like all of the rainbow contributors ignore this section. We need more people checking and responding here. 2: While I accept that the people who often have problems are the same ones who are least likely to actually read documentation, we could do a better job of providing documentation for common installation errors in the downloaded zip. I'd say 7 out of 10 installation problems I see are due to basic errors with database user/permissions setup. 3: A how-to document for using the Rainbow logging system. I seriously doubt if 80% of rainbow users even know the rainbow.config exists. 4: Simplify logging and debugging for setup/updates. We have basic authentication for running setup scripts now(login/pass set in config file), why can't we redirect them to detailed error messages right then and there if something goes wrong? Tell them what script, sproc, etc failed, why,etc. 5: A how-to on debugging rainbow modules. Most people are simply perplexed the first time they build a module and keep getting errors from the rainbow parser. Honestly I've written several modules and I don't know how to work with those errors, I just figured out a way to work around them. 6: Improve location for links relating to documentation. The most important stuff on the rainbow site is hidden. Revising the left pane of the home tab for Rainbowportal.net would be neat. I believe that many of the people who struggle with rainbow are willing and able to solve their own problems but do not know that half of the documentation even exists. Sure more documentation is needed, but whats the point if what we haven't isn't being used anyway? Just a bunch of ideas. Chris Farrell |
From: John M. <joh...@gm...> - 2004-10-31 19:35:52
|
Hi Chris, All good points. I'm out of the game for at least another 2 weeks :( I'm on a project with sucks up all of my available time. There is a better setup due. An exe that does it for you (Manu is working on it). Forums, yep I no longer have much time to go through my mails let alone the forums :( Someone on the list mentioned they had modded yaf to support multiple portals as well as some other changes. Would it be possible (Sorry dont have your mail to hand) to feed those changes back to the yaf project like DNN have done? I havent used yaf yet but have followed it's progress and it is a good project. Maybe implementing that as the main forum (Or the next version of the asp.net forums) which provide rss feeds would be useful. That way people could subscribe tot he rss feed instead of having to check the forums every day? John On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 13:44:59 -0500, Chris Farrell <ch...@cf...> wrote: > Guys, > I have seen this go on for way too long. There has been progress made > but there is still a > way to go and there can be some simple steps taken that would really help > Rainbow. > > 1: Help the newbies in the forums. I'm finding messages that are weeks > old with zero responses > for basic beginner difficulties! I try to respond when I can but I often > do not know the answer. > There is no excuse for having unanswered questions in the installation part > of the forum, none. > With the exception of a small group of people seems like all of the rainbow > contributors ignore > this section. We need more people checking and responding here. > > 2: While I accept that the people who often have problems are the same > ones who are least > likely to actually read documentation, we could do a better job of > providing documentation for > common installation errors in the downloaded zip. I'd say 7 out of 10 > installation problems I > see are due to basic errors with database user/permissions setup. > > 3: A how-to document for using the Rainbow logging system. I seriously > doubt if 80% of > rainbow users even know the rainbow.config exists. > > 4: Simplify logging and debugging for setup/updates. We have basic > authentication for > running setup scripts now(login/pass set in config file), why can't we > redirect them to > detailed error messages right then and there if something goes wrong? Tell > them what > script, sproc, etc failed, why,etc. > > 5: A how-to on debugging rainbow modules. Most people are simply > perplexed the first > time they build a module and keep getting errors from the rainbow > parser. Honestly I've > written several modules and I don't know how to work with those errors, I > just figured out > a way to work around them. > > 6: Improve location for links relating to documentation. The most > important stuff on the > rainbow site is hidden. Revising the left pane of the home tab for > Rainbowportal.net would > be neat. I believe that many of the people who struggle with rainbow are > willing and able > to solve their own problems but do not know that half of the documentation > even exists. > Sure more documentation is needed, but whats the point if what we haven't > isn't being > used anyway? > > Just a bunch of ideas. > > Chris Farrell > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by: > Sybase ASE Linux Express Edition - download now for FREE > LinuxWorld Reader's Choice Award Winner for best database on Linux. > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=5588&alloc_id=12065&op=click > _______________________________________________ > Rainbowportal-devel mailing list > Rai...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rainbowportal-devel > |
From: William L. F. <Bi...@im...> - 2004-10-31 23:19:53
Attachments:
smime.p7s
|
I'd like to see a switch in Rainbow module core that takes module content (module creator could specify a provider for that that way we can have one way to store module data and the provider hands data to module, thereby removing the need for module devs to ever mess with the database)... a tangent... I would like to see that done and then I'd like a switch to turn ANY module's content into rss and add an rss button to the title bar of the module. I think this would be an awesome feature. Bill -----Original Message----- From: rai...@li... [mailto:rai...@li...] On Behalf Of John Mandia Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 11:36 AM To: rai...@li... Subject: Re: [Rainbowportal-devel] installation still needs a LOT of improvement Hi Chris, All good points. I'm out of the game for at least another 2 weeks :( I'm on a project with sucks up all of my available time. There is a better setup due. An exe that does it for you (Manu is working on it). Forums, yep I no longer have much time to go through my mails let alone the forums :( Someone on the list mentioned they had modded yaf to support multiple portals as well as some other changes. Would it be possible (Sorry dont have your mail to hand) to feed those changes back to the yaf project like DNN have done? I havent used yaf yet but have followed it's progress and it is a good project. Maybe implementing that as the main forum (Or the next version of the asp.net forums) which provide rss feeds would be useful. That way people could subscribe tot he rss feed instead of having to check the forums every day? John On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 13:44:59 -0500, Chris Farrell <ch...@cf...> wrote: > Guys, > I have seen this go on for way too long. There has been progress made > but there is still a > way to go and there can be some simple steps taken that would really help > Rainbow. > > 1: Help the newbies in the forums. I'm finding messages that are weeks > old with zero responses > for basic beginner difficulties! I try to respond when I can but I often > do not know the answer. > There is no excuse for having unanswered questions in the installation part > of the forum, none. > With the exception of a small group of people seems like all of the rainbow > contributors ignore > this section. We need more people checking and responding here. > > 2: While I accept that the people who often have problems are the same > ones who are least > likely to actually read documentation, we could do a better job of > providing documentation for > common installation errors in the downloaded zip. I'd say 7 out of 10 > installation problems I > see are due to basic errors with database user/permissions setup. > > 3: A how-to document for using the Rainbow logging system. I seriously > doubt if 80% of > rainbow users even know the rainbow.config exists. > > 4: Simplify logging and debugging for setup/updates. We have basic > authentication for > running setup scripts now(login/pass set in config file), why can't we > redirect them to > detailed error messages right then and there if something goes wrong? Tell > them what > script, sproc, etc failed, why,etc. > > 5: A how-to on debugging rainbow modules. Most people are simply > perplexed the first > time they build a module and keep getting errors from the rainbow > parser. Honestly I've > written several modules and I don't know how to work with those errors, I > just figured out > a way to work around them. > > 6: Improve location for links relating to documentation. The most > important stuff on the > rainbow site is hidden. Revising the left pane of the home tab for > Rainbowportal.net would > be neat. I believe that many of the people who struggle with rainbow are > willing and able > to solve their own problems but do not know that half of the documentation > even exists. > Sure more documentation is needed, but whats the point if what we haven't > isn't being > used anyway? > > Just a bunch of ideas. > > Chris Farrell > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by: > Sybase ASE Linux Express Edition - download now for FREE > LinuxWorld Reader's Choice Award Winner for best database on Linux. > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=5588&alloc_id=12065&op=click > _______________________________________________ > Rainbowportal-devel mailing list > Rai...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rainbowportal-devel > ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: Sybase ASE Linux Express Edition - download now for FREE LinuxWorld Reader's Choice Award Winner for best database on Linux. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=5588&alloc_id=12065&op=click _______________________________________________ Rainbowportal-devel mailing list Rai...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rainbowportal-devel |
From: Rahul S. <ana...@gm...> - 2004-11-01 02:04:23
|
This is something that is a feature in a lot of other systems that's really cool. Exposing data through XML was a feature in CSK, and i think Rainbow also has a community service, but I don't think anyone is working with it. Rahul On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 15:18:13 -0800, William L. Forney <bi...@im...> wrote: > I'd like to see a switch in Rainbow module core that takes module content > (module creator could specify a provider for that that way we can have one > way to store module data and the provider hands data to module, thereby > removing the need for module devs to ever mess with the database)... a > tangent... I would like to see that done and then I'd like a switch to turn > ANY module's content into rss and add an rss button to the title bar of the > module. I think this would be an awesome feature. > > Bill > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rai...@li... > [mailto:rai...@li...] On Behalf Of John > Mandia > Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 11:36 AM > To: rai...@li... > Subject: Re: [Rainbowportal-devel] installation still needs a LOT of > improvement > > Hi Chris, > > All good points. > > I'm out of the game for at least another 2 weeks :( I'm on a project > with sucks up all of my available time. > > There is a better setup due. An exe that does it for you (Manu is > working on it). > > Forums, yep I no longer have much time to go through my mails let > alone the forums :( > > Someone on the list mentioned they had modded yaf to support multiple > portals as well as some other changes. Would it be possible (Sorry > dont have your mail to hand) to feed those changes back to the yaf > project like DNN have done? I havent used yaf yet but have followed > it's progress and it is a good project. > > Maybe implementing that as the main forum (Or the next version of the > asp.net forums) which provide rss feeds would be useful. That way > people could subscribe tot he rss feed instead of having to check the > forums every day? > > John > > On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 13:44:59 -0500, Chris Farrell > <ch...@cf...> wrote: > > Guys, > > I have seen this go on for way too long. There has been progress made > > but there is still a > > way to go and there can be some simple steps taken that would really help > > Rainbow. > > > > 1: Help the newbies in the forums. I'm finding messages that are weeks > > old with zero responses > > for basic beginner difficulties! I try to respond when I can but I often > > do not know the answer. > > There is no excuse for having unanswered questions in the installation > part > > of the forum, none. > > With the exception of a small group of people seems like all of the > rainbow > > contributors ignore > > this section. We need more people checking and responding here. > > > > 2: While I accept that the people who often have problems are the same > > ones who are least > > likely to actually read documentation, we could do a better job of > > providing documentation for > > common installation errors in the downloaded zip. I'd say 7 out of 10 > > installation problems I > > see are due to basic errors with database user/permissions setup. > > > > 3: A how-to document for using the Rainbow logging system. I seriously > > doubt if 80% of > > rainbow users even know the rainbow.config exists. > > > > 4: Simplify logging and debugging for setup/updates. We have basic > > authentication for > > running setup scripts now(login/pass set in config file), why can't we > > redirect them to > > detailed error messages right then and there if something goes wrong? > Tell > > them what > > script, sproc, etc failed, why,etc. > > > > 5: A how-to on debugging rainbow modules. Most people are simply > > perplexed the first > > time they build a module and keep getting errors from the rainbow > > parser. Honestly I've > > written several modules and I don't know how to work with those errors, I > > just figured out > > a way to work around them. > > > > 6: Improve location for links relating to documentation. The most > > important stuff on the > > rainbow site is hidden. Revising the left pane of the home tab for > > Rainbowportal.net would > > be neat. I believe that many of the people who struggle with rainbow are > > willing and able > > to solve their own problems but do not know that half of the documentation > > even exists. > > Sure more documentation is needed, but whats the point if what we haven't > > isn't being > > used anyway? > > > > Just a bunch of ideas. > > > > Chris Farrell > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > This SF.Net email is sponsored by: > > Sybase ASE Linux Express Edition - download now for FREE > > LinuxWorld Reader's Choice Award Winner for best database on Linux. > > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=5588&alloc_id=12065&op=click > > _______________________________________________ > > Rainbowportal-devel mailing list > > Rai...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rainbowportal-devel > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by: > Sybase ASE Linux Express Edition - download now for FREE > LinuxWorld Reader's Choice Award Winner for best database on Linux. > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=5588&alloc_id=12065&op=click > _______________________________________________ > Rainbowportal-devel mailing list > Rai...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rainbowportal-devel > > > |
From: Mark M. <mar...@ho...> - 2004-11-01 08:08:56
|
From Bill: "I'd like to see a switch in Rainbow module core that takes module content..." To Bill, and everyone else, (including myself), Rainbow Jira is the place to persist feature requests. If you really want something, post it on Jira (and of course you can discuss it here). http://support.rainbowportal.net/jira/secure/CreateIssue.jspa Mark |
From: Chris F. <ch...@cf...> - 2004-11-01 04:03:37
|
John, Of course they are good points, but good ideas are cheap. Will they ever turn to action? Most programmers have more ideas than time so I do understand people wanting to work on their own projects, but if a few people made a commitment to spend even small amounts of time helping newbies out in the forums, it would really have a positive impact. I'm not sure a exe setup is the right path. Would be a great idea if Rainbow was a windows program but it isn't, it is a web app. Most people are able to get Rainbow installed on their local machines, the problems they have are getting it to work on their remote hosts. I have probably fielded 10 installation questions this week and I can't recall a single person who couldn't get rainbow to work locally. What is yaf? While on the subject of small changes to forums. One small change that would make a huge impact on the effectiveness of the forums is the ability to mark a request as "complete". That way people looking to help others could do quick searches to see who still needs help. I might suggest this to the asp.net guys if I can find a way to contact them. Cheers Chris Farrell At 07:35 PM 10/31/2004 +0000, you wrote: >Hi Chris, > >All good points. > >I'm out of the game for at least another 2 weeks :( I'm on a project >with sucks up all of my available time. > >There is a better setup due. An exe that does it for you (Manu is >working on it). > >Forums, yep I no longer have much time to go through my mails let >alone the forums :( > >Someone on the list mentioned they had modded yaf to support multiple >portals as well as some other changes. Would it be possible (Sorry >dont have your mail to hand) to feed those changes back to the yaf >project like DNN have done? I havent used yaf yet but have followed >it's progress and it is a good project. > >Maybe implementing that as the main forum (Or the next version of the >asp.net forums) which provide rss feeds would be useful. That way >people could subscribe tot he rss feed instead of having to check the >forums every day? > >John > >On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 13:44:59 -0500, Chris Farrell ><ch...@cf...> wrote: > > Guys, > > I have seen this go on for way too long. There has been progress made > > but there is still a > > way to go and there can be some simple steps taken that would really help > > Rainbow. > > > > 1: Help the newbies in the forums. I'm finding messages that are weeks > > old with zero responses > > for basic beginner difficulties! I try to respond when I can but I often > > do not know the answer. > > There is no excuse for having unanswered questions in the installation part > > of the forum, none. > > With the exception of a small group of people seems like all of the rainbow > > contributors ignore > > this section. We need more people checking and responding here. > > > > 2: While I accept that the people who often have problems are the same > > ones who are least > > likely to actually read documentation, we could do a better job of > > providing documentation for > > common installation errors in the downloaded zip. I'd say 7 out of 10 > > installation problems I > > see are due to basic errors with database user/permissions setup. > > > > 3: A how-to document for using the Rainbow logging system. I seriously > > doubt if 80% of > > rainbow users even know the rainbow.config exists. > > > > 4: Simplify logging and debugging for setup/updates. We have basic > > authentication for > > running setup scripts now(login/pass set in config file), why can't we > > redirect them to > > detailed error messages right then and there if something goes wrong? Tell > > them what > > script, sproc, etc failed, why,etc. > > > > 5: A how-to on debugging rainbow modules. Most people are simply > > perplexed the first > > time they build a module and keep getting errors from the rainbow > > parser. Honestly I've > > written several modules and I don't know how to work with those errors, I > > just figured out > > a way to work around them. > > > > 6: Improve location for links relating to documentation. The most > > important stuff on the > > rainbow site is hidden. Revising the left pane of the home tab for > > Rainbowportal.net would > > be neat. I believe that many of the people who struggle with rainbow are > > willing and able > > to solve their own problems but do not know that half of the documentation > > even exists. > > Sure more documentation is needed, but whats the point if what we haven't > > isn't being > > used anyway? > > > > Just a bunch of ideas. > > > > Chris Farrell > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > This SF.Net email is sponsored by: > > Sybase ASE Linux Express Edition - download now for FREE > > LinuxWorld Reader's Choice Award Winner for best database on Linux. > > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=5588&alloc_id=12065&op=click > > _______________________________________________ > > Rainbowportal-devel mailing list > > Rai...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rainbowportal-devel > > > > >------------------------------------------------------- >This SF.Net email is sponsored by: >Sybase ASE Linux Express Edition - download now for FREE >LinuxWorld Reader's Choice Award Winner for best database on Linux. >http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=5588&alloc_id=12065&op=click >_______________________________________________ >Rainbowportal-devel mailing list >Rai...@li... >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rainbowportal-devel |
From: William L. F. <Bi...@im...> - 2004-11-01 04:46:06
Attachments:
smime.p7s
|
The installation questions are often the result of two things: 1. Poor documentation. Step by step install.txt is needed for newbies. 2. People trying to use old versions of the code that were broken to begin with. The asp.net forums are now community server :: forums... search on that and you'll find them. -----Original Message----- From: rai...@li... [mailto:rai...@li...] On Behalf Of Chris Farrell Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 7:47 PM To: rai...@li... Subject: Re: [Rainbowportal-devel] installation still needs a LOT of improvement John, Of course they are good points, but good ideas are cheap. Will they ever turn to action? Most programmers have more ideas than time so I do understand people wanting to work on their own projects, but if a few people made a commitment to spend even small amounts of time helping newbies out in the forums, it would really have a positive impact. I'm not sure a exe setup is the right path. Would be a great idea if Rainbow was a windows program but it isn't, it is a web app. Most people are able to get Rainbow installed on their local machines, the problems they have are getting it to work on their remote hosts. I have probably fielded 10 installation questions this week and I can't recall a single person who couldn't get rainbow to work locally. What is yaf? While on the subject of small changes to forums. One small change that would make a huge impact on the effectiveness of the forums is the ability to mark a request as "complete". That way people looking to help others could do quick searches to see who still needs help. I might suggest this to the asp.net guys if I can find a way to contact them. Cheers Chris Farrell At 07:35 PM 10/31/2004 +0000, you wrote: >Hi Chris, > >All good points. > >I'm out of the game for at least another 2 weeks :( I'm on a project >with sucks up all of my available time. > >There is a better setup due. An exe that does it for you (Manu is >working on it). > >Forums, yep I no longer have much time to go through my mails let >alone the forums :( > >Someone on the list mentioned they had modded yaf to support multiple >portals as well as some other changes. Would it be possible (Sorry >dont have your mail to hand) to feed those changes back to the yaf >project like DNN have done? I havent used yaf yet but have followed >it's progress and it is a good project. > >Maybe implementing that as the main forum (Or the next version of the >asp.net forums) which provide rss feeds would be useful. That way >people could subscribe tot he rss feed instead of having to check the >forums every day? > >John > >On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 13:44:59 -0500, Chris Farrell ><ch...@cf...> wrote: > > Guys, > > I have seen this go on for way too long. There has been progress made > > but there is still a > > way to go and there can be some simple steps taken that would really help > > Rainbow. > > > > 1: Help the newbies in the forums. I'm finding messages that are weeks > > old with zero responses > > for basic beginner difficulties! I try to respond when I can but I often > > do not know the answer. > > There is no excuse for having unanswered questions in the installation part > > of the forum, none. > > With the exception of a small group of people seems like all of the rainbow > > contributors ignore > > this section. We need more people checking and responding here. > > > > 2: While I accept that the people who often have problems are the same > > ones who are least > > likely to actually read documentation, we could do a better job of > > providing documentation for > > common installation errors in the downloaded zip. I'd say 7 out of 10 > > installation problems I > > see are due to basic errors with database user/permissions setup. > > > > 3: A how-to document for using the Rainbow logging system. I seriously > > doubt if 80% of > > rainbow users even know the rainbow.config exists. > > > > 4: Simplify logging and debugging for setup/updates. We have basic > > authentication for > > running setup scripts now(login/pass set in config file), why can't we > > redirect them to > > detailed error messages right then and there if something goes wrong? Tell > > them what > > script, sproc, etc failed, why,etc. > > > > 5: A how-to on debugging rainbow modules. Most people are simply > > perplexed the first > > time they build a module and keep getting errors from the rainbow > > parser. Honestly I've > > written several modules and I don't know how to work with those errors, I > > just figured out > > a way to work around them. > > > > 6: Improve location for links relating to documentation. The most > > important stuff on the > > rainbow site is hidden. Revising the left pane of the home tab for > > Rainbowportal.net would > > be neat. I believe that many of the people who struggle with rainbow are > > willing and able > > to solve their own problems but do not know that half of the documentation > > even exists. > > Sure more documentation is needed, but whats the point if what we haven't > > isn't being > > used anyway? > > > > Just a bunch of ideas. > > > > Chris Farrell > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > This SF.Net email is sponsored by: > > Sybase ASE Linux Express Edition - download now for FREE > > LinuxWorld Reader's Choice Award Winner for best database on Linux. > > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=5588&alloc_id=12065&op=click > > _______________________________________________ > > Rainbowportal-devel mailing list > > Rai...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rainbowportal-devel > > > > >------------------------------------------------------- >This SF.Net email is sponsored by: >Sybase ASE Linux Express Edition - download now for FREE >LinuxWorld Reader's Choice Award Winner for best database on Linux. >http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=5588&alloc_id=12065&op=click >_______________________________________________ >Rainbowportal-devel mailing list >Rai...@li... >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rainbowportal-devel ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: Sybase ASE Linux Express Edition - download now for FREE LinuxWorld Reader's Choice Award Winner for best database on Linux. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=5588&alloc_id=12065&op=click _______________________________________________ Rainbowportal-devel mailing list Rai...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rainbowportal-devel |
From: Charles C. <cha...@gm...> - 2004-11-01 08:30:29
|
I disagree. A good installation requires answering one or two questions not reading docs. Better docs are not the answer. Better install is. And NO INSTALL DOCS as neccesary step. In the last 6 months since I started Rainbow, people using the very newest builds have great difficulty installing it. After much frustration in desparation they install DNN, which proceeds flawlessly. On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 20:45:02 -0800, William L. Forney <bi...@im...> wrote: > The installation questions are often the result of two things: > 1. Poor documentation. Step by step install.txt is needed for newbies. > 2. People trying to use old versions of the code that were broken to begin > with. > > The asp.net forums are now community server :: forums... search on that and > you'll find them. |
From: Emmanuele De A. <ma...@gm...> - 2004-11-01 12:02:24
|
I agree with this. And from user point of view this is perfect. I can summarize the rainbow install in 5 words: - Unzip - Create web folder from the unzipped directory - Create an empty db - Open web.config and change connection sting to match the db you just created. - Browse the site just created and follow the wizard. Now my question is: - What of this is a problem? - Which of these steps fails? The radme.txt I have tried to address the most common problems that can happen at installation time. There are problems are not covered by readme? Why rainbow installation fails? This is the question. If we want to improve something that is broken we need to exactly know WHERE and WHY is broken. Of course a newbie cannot answer exactly but on these list there are professional that know well IIS, SQL and rainbow and I hope that can reply. I did my best to do a flawless install. Before decide how to fix let's try to see why it needs to be fixed and where. Sincerely Manu On Mon, 1 Nov 2004 03:30:26 -0500, Charles Carroll <cha...@gm...> wrote: > I disagree. > > A good installation requires answering one or two questions not reading docs. > > Better docs are not the answer. > > Better install is. And NO INSTALL DOCS as neccesary step. > > In the last 6 months since I started Rainbow, people using the very > newest builds have great difficulty installing it. After much > frustration in desparation they install DNN, which proceeds > flawlessly. > > On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 20:45:02 -0800, William L. Forney > > > <bi...@im...> wrote: > > The installation questions are often the result of two things: > > 1. Poor documentation. Step by step install.txt is needed for newbies. > > 2. People trying to use old versions of the code that were broken to begin > > with. > > > > The asp.net forums are now community server :: forums... search on that and > > you'll find them. > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by: > Sybase ASE Linux Express Edition - download now for FREE > LinuxWorld Reader's Choice Award Winner for best database on Linux. > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=5588&alloc_id=12065&op=click > _______________________________________________ > Rainbowportal-devel mailing list > Rai...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rainbowportal-devel > |
From: Charles C. <cha...@gm...> - 2004-11-01 12:33:05
|
On Mon, 1 Nov 2004 13:02:18 +0100, Emmanuele De Andreis <ma...@gm...> wrote: > The radme.txt I have tried to address the most common problems that > can happen at installation time. > There are problems are not covered by readme? Well in my experience one looks at each problem in current readme, and programatically eliminates/reduces the possibilty the possiblity it could happen at all. When Rahul joins in to this (or Paul Chu who worked with Rahul on replicatincg Rahul's flawless install....) who I hav watched created two dozen Rainbow Portals in 5 mintes when others can't install at all -- Rahul I am sure will fill in what he does to eliminate those readme issues. |
From: John B. <jo...@bo...> - 2004-11-01 13:41:38
|
Gentlemen (and others); I think there are two different issues here. Setting up Rainbow on a = localhost is pretty straightforward, and can (should?) be done with a = wizard that asks those 4 or 5 questions, and then copies the files to = proper locations. Upgrading existing versions of Rainbow (locally) = should be done the same way (for non-CVS users). =20 Moving Rainbow from a localhost to a hosted server introduces a new set = of issues...usually permissions related, database user issues, changes = to web.config, etc. This could be as simple as a 'checklist' for the = admin to follow (make sure ASPNET account has write permissions on = Rainbow directory, FTP application files to the server, etc.). =20 We will still need good documentation for users so they can fix problems = when they arise. Wizards won't get users through everything that can go = wrong. =20 John B. I agree with this. And from user point of view this is perfect. I can summarize the rainbow install in 5 words: - Unzip - Create web folder from the unzipped directory - Create an empty db - Open web.config and change connection sting to match the db you just = created. - Browse the site just created and follow the wizard. Now my question is: - What of this is a problem? - Which of these steps fails? The radme.txt I have tried to address the most common problems that can happen at installation time. There are problems are not covered by readme? Why rainbow installation fails? This is the question. If we want to improve something that is broken we need to exactly know WHERE and WHY is broken. Of course a newbie cannot answer exactly but on these list there are professional that know well IIS, SQL and rainbow and I hope that can reply. I did my best to do a flawless install. Before decide how to fix let's try to see why it needs to be fixed and = where. Sincerely Manu |
From: HolonCom S. <su...@ho...> - 2004-11-01 16:35:01
|
I'm fine tuning a custom solpartmenu implementation. But I'm looking for a way to find the TabID of the Parent of the Parent of the ActiveTab There is /portalSettings.ActiveTab.ParentTabID /but I need /portalSettings.ActiveTab.ParentTab.ParentTabID/ Is there a way to get this? Rob Siera |
From: Marc <mar...@ho...> - 2004-11-01 17:40:17
|
I agree that problems happen when you try to install Rainbow on a hosted server, and mostly related to "make sure ASPNET account has write permissions on Rainbow directory". I am not a IIS specialist, but I can say that I have had a lot of = discussion with the support team of several hosting providers and they have not = given me a clear answer, I have heard: "ASPNET user is no more used with IIS 6.0","use impersonate in web.config", but no clear answer. I have tried everything, but at the end, I had preferred to change my provider. My suggestion: 1. Explain why ASPNET user must have write permission on Rainbow = directory ?, why the whole directory and not only log and portal (_Rainbow) = directory ?=20 2. I think there is also something concerning the right to use = esperantus and log4net dll's. Somebody could explain ? 3. And it will be nice if we can test and document installations with = the major hosting providers (innerhost,brinkster,hostbasket,webmatrixhosting,etc...). I will do that this week with hostbasket. So, any volunteers for the others? Marc mar...@ho... ps: sorry for my english, it's not my native language! -----Message d'origine----- De=A0: rai...@li... [mailto:rai...@li...] De la part de = John Bowen Envoy=E9=A0: lundi 1 novembre 2004 14:43 =C0=A0: rai...@li... Objet=A0: RE: [Rainbowportal-devel] installation still needs a LOT of improvement Gentlemen (and others); I think there are two different issues here. Setting up Rainbow on a localhost is pretty straightforward, and can (should?) be done with a = wizard that asks those 4 or 5 questions, and then copies the files to proper locations. Upgrading existing versions of Rainbow (locally) should be = done the same way (for non-CVS users). =20 Moving Rainbow from a localhost to a hosted server introduces a new set = of issues...usually permissions related, database user issues, changes to web.config, etc. This could be as simple as a 'checklist' for the admin = to follow (make sure ASPNET account has write permissions on Rainbow = directory, FTP application files to the server, etc.). =20 We will still need good documentation for users so they can fix problems when they arise. Wizards won't get users through everything that can go wrong. =20 John B. I agree with this. And from user point of view this is perfect. I can summarize the rainbow install in 5 words: - Unzip - Create web folder from the unzipped directory - Create an empty db - Open web.config and change connection sting to match the db you just created. - Browse the site just created and follow the wizard. Now my question is: - What of this is a problem? - Which of these steps fails? The radme.txt I have tried to address the most common problems that can happen at installation time. There are problems are not covered by readme? Why rainbow installation fails? This is the question. If we want to improve something that is broken we need to exactly know WHERE and WHY is broken. Of course a newbie cannot answer exactly but on these list there are professional that know well IIS, SQL and rainbow and I hope that can reply. I did my best to do a flawless install. Before decide how to fix let's try to see why it needs to be fixed and where. Sincerely Manu ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: Sybase ASE Linux Express Edition - download now for FREE LinuxWorld Reader's Choice Award Winner for best database on Linux. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idU88&alloc_id=12065&op=3Dick _______________________________________________ Rainbowportal-devel mailing list Rai...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rainbowportal-devel |
From: William L. F. <Bi...@im...> - 2004-11-01 21:51:29
Attachments:
smime.p7s
|
On IIS 6 with Windows 2003 server the ASP.NET service runs as the = NETWORK SERVICE user unless the admin on the box sets up an app. pool for it manually. In that case the admins have total control over what user it = runs as. This is a design flaw. It should only be that it needs write access on = the logs folder, but as long as new portal folders (_Rainbow, etc) are in = the Rainbow root the whole thing needs it. We should probably move the = _Rainbow etc folders to a Portals folder. This has been brought up before. -----Original Message----- From: rai...@li... [mailto:rai...@li...] On Behalf Of = Marc Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 9:40 AM To: rai...@li... Subject: RE: [Rainbowportal-devel] installation still needs a LOT of improvement I agree that problems happen when you try to install Rainbow on a hosted server, and mostly related to "make sure ASPNET account has write permissions on Rainbow directory". I am not a IIS specialist, but I can say that I have had a lot of = discussion with the support team of several hosting providers and they have not = given me a clear answer, I have heard: "ASPNET user is no more used with IIS 6.0","use impersonate in web.config", but no clear answer. I have tried everything, but at the end, I had preferred to change my provider. My suggestion: 1. Explain why ASPNET user must have write permission on Rainbow = directory ?, why the whole directory and not only log and portal (_Rainbow) = directory ?=20 2. I think there is also something concerning the right to use = esperantus and log4net dll's. Somebody could explain ? 3. And it will be nice if we can test and document installations with = the major hosting providers (innerhost,brinkster,hostbasket,webmatrixhosting,etc...). I will do that this week with hostbasket. So, any volunteers for the others? Marc mar...@ho... ps: sorry for my english, it's not my native language! -----Message d'origine----- De=A0: rai...@li... [mailto:rai...@li...] De la part de = John Bowen Envoy=E9=A0: lundi 1 novembre 2004 14:43 =C0=A0: rai...@li... Objet=A0: RE: [Rainbowportal-devel] installation still needs a LOT of improvement Gentlemen (and others); I think there are two different issues here. Setting up Rainbow on a localhost is pretty straightforward, and can (should?) be done with a = wizard that asks those 4 or 5 questions, and then copies the files to proper locations. Upgrading existing versions of Rainbow (locally) should be = done the same way (for non-CVS users). =20 Moving Rainbow from a localhost to a hosted server introduces a new set = of issues...usually permissions related, database user issues, changes to web.config, etc. This could be as simple as a 'checklist' for the admin = to follow (make sure ASPNET account has write permissions on Rainbow = directory, FTP application files to the server, etc.). =20 We will still need good documentation for users so they can fix problems when they arise. Wizards won't get users through everything that can go wrong. =20 John B. I agree with this. And from user point of view this is perfect. I can summarize the rainbow install in 5 words: - Unzip - Create web folder from the unzipped directory - Create an empty db - Open web.config and change connection sting to match the db you just created. - Browse the site just created and follow the wizard. Now my question is: - What of this is a problem? - Which of these steps fails? The radme.txt I have tried to address the most common problems that can happen at installation time. There are problems are not covered by readme? Why rainbow installation fails? This is the question. If we want to improve something that is broken we need to exactly know WHERE and WHY is broken. Of course a newbie cannot answer exactly but on these list there are professional that know well IIS, SQL and rainbow and I hope that can reply. I did my best to do a flawless install. Before decide how to fix let's try to see why it needs to be fixed and where. Sincerely Manu ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: Sybase ASE Linux Express Edition - download now for FREE LinuxWorld Reader's Choice Award Winner for best database on Linux. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idU88&alloc_id=12065&op=3Dick _______________________________________________ Rainbowportal-devel mailing list Rai...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rainbowportal-devel ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: Sybase ASE Linux Express Edition - download now for FREE LinuxWorld Reader's Choice Award Winner for best database on Linux. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idU88&alloc_id=12065&op=3Dick _______________________________________________ Rainbowportal-devel mailing list Rai...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rainbowportal-devel |
From: Chris F. <ch...@cf...> - 2004-11-01 17:37:58
|
Manu, Steps often fail, otherwise the installation forum would be dead. What needs to be added. -wizard support for setup and testing of database connection string?? Check if the server IP is valid, if the database exists, if the user has login rights, if the user has dbo rights. -wizard support to setup error logging/reporting. -make it easy for them to know what went wrong for setups/update. -some type of wizard for configuration. -Optional. Why not provide a blank db for some users instead of making them create it? Would bypass one of the most troublesome steps. Documentation is great but only effective if the user reads it. That is one thing I am trying to work on, have been for a while. I think the FAQ was a good step but it needs more content. Each user is going to have their preference towards what they want so some may prefer to ask in forums, others want to solve it themselves. Chris At 01:02 PM 11/1/2004 +0100, you wrote: >I agree with this. >And from user point of view this is perfect. > >I can summarize the rainbow install in 5 words: >- Unzip >- Create web folder from the unzipped directory >- Create an empty db >- Open web.config and change connection sting to match the db you just >created. >- Browse the site just created and follow the wizard. > >Now my question is: >- What of this is a problem? >- Which of these steps fails? > >The radme.txt I have tried to address the most common problems that >can happen at installation time. >There are problems are not covered by readme? > >Why rainbow installation fails? >This is the question. If we want to improve something that is broken >we need to exactly know WHERE and WHY is broken. >Of course a newbie cannot answer exactly but on these list there are >professional that know well IIS, SQL and rainbow and I hope that can >reply. >I did my best to do a flawless install. > >Before decide how to fix let's try to see why it needs to be fixed and where. >Sincerely > >Manu > > > >On Mon, 1 Nov 2004 03:30:26 -0500, Charles Carroll ><cha...@gm...> wrote: > > I disagree. > > > > A good installation requires answering one or two questions not reading > docs. > > > > Better docs are not the answer. > > > > Better install is. And NO INSTALL DOCS as neccesary step. > > > > In the last 6 months since I started Rainbow, people using the very > > newest builds have great difficulty installing it. After much > > frustration in desparation they install DNN, which proceeds > > flawlessly. > > > > On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 20:45:02 -0800, William L. Forney > > > > > > <bi...@im...> wrote: > > > The installation questions are often the result of two things: > > > 1. Poor documentation. Step by step install.txt is needed for newbies. > > > 2. People trying to use old versions of the code that were broken to > begin > > > with. > > > > > > The asp.net forums are now community server :: forums... search on > that and > > > you'll find them. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > This SF.Net email is sponsored by: > > Sybase ASE Linux Express Edition - download now for FREE > > LinuxWorld Reader's Choice Award Winner for best database on Linux. > > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=5588&alloc_id=12065&op=click > > _______________________________________________ > > Rainbowportal-devel mailing list > > Rai...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rainbowportal-devel > > > > >------------------------------------------------------- >This SF.Net email is sponsored by: >Sybase ASE Linux Express Edition - download now for FREE >LinuxWorld Reader's Choice Award Winner for best database on Linux. >http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=5588&alloc_id=12065&op=click >_______________________________________________ >Rainbowportal-devel mailing list >Rai...@li... >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rainbowportal-devel |
From: Mark M. <mar...@ho...> - 2004-11-01 11:16:10
|
Chris said "6. Improve location for links relating to documentation. ..." Send me the documentation links, I'll update the web site. See, I don't even know where the docs are :) Mark |
From: Chris F. <ch...@cf...> - 2004-11-01 17:28:48
|
Mark, I can update the site myself, I have done quite a few small/medium things since you left. I just like to run ideas past the group because I don't feel I have a mandate to just start making all kinds of big changes. I have cleaned up some small areas recently but thats about it. What I am talking about is take the "top links" area on top left of Rainbow homesite and split that into several areas, one of which would be support links. Right now the FAQ is buried in a subtab, help documents in word format are at the bottom of a page on a subtab, etc... I'm going to gamble and say that many new users might think documentation means technical documentation for contributors, we should be calling at least part of it support. That is just a hunch, I could be wrong. Chris At 02:16 PM 11/1/2004 +0300, you wrote: >Chris said "6. Improve location for links relating to documentation. ..." > >Send me the documentation links, I'll update the web site. See, I don't >even know where the docs are :) > >Mark > > >------------------------------------------------------- >This SF.Net email is sponsored by: >Sybase ASE Linux Express Edition - download now for FREE >LinuxWorld Reader's Choice Award Winner for best database on Linux. >http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=5588&alloc_id=12065&op=click >_______________________________________________ >Rainbowportal-devel mailing list >Rai...@li... >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rainbowportal-devel |