Thread: [Qtractor-devel] Inserts and synth plugins
An Audio/MIDI multi-track sequencer
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From: Ralf M. <ral...@al...> - 2014-08-13 12:32:55
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Hi,
now I can underpin my claim with routing issues. It was a long time ago,
that I used the computer and Qtractor to make music, so I don't remember
all the details, but at least yesterday night/this morning I experienced
one of the uncountable issues.
hexter plugin -> [ i n s e r t ] Fons' parametric eq
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-> external 19" gear-|
fluid plugin -> [ i n s e r t ] Fons' parametric eq
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-> external 19" gear-|
If I use hexter, the insert does _not_ work correctly, resp. Qtractor's
channel fader 0 setting or any value close to 0 doesn't work, so a
silent mix is impossible.
If I use fluid, the insert is ok, IOW the mixer's fader does work about
the full range from 0 to 100. Btw. in this case I'm using 100% of the
inserted signal, no mixing with the original signal and I noticed that
the labelling is wrong. It's "Dry / Wet", but with the fader to the
left, position 0.000 I get the wanted 100% signal from the external
gear, so the labelling should be "Wet / Dry", resp. it's completely
nonsense. An insert shouldn't have an option for mixing, it would be
better for a virtual mixer to follow the way a real mixer does work.
Inserts are inserts, no way to mix. For mixing dry and wet signals aux
sends and sub routs are used. Oh, I'm missing an option to give tracks a
negative delay in < ms steps, moving MIDI tracks isn't good for several
reasons.
"Fortunately" (I'm sarcastic) the driver for my RME audio card is
ridiculous, since still only 2 of the 8 ADAT channels are routed to jack
IOs, IOW I anyway can't use all my external gear, so inserts are less
important, instead of professional external synth and effects I need to
use crappy virtual synth and bad programmed effect plugins, such as the
Calf multi band gate, that very often cause Qtractor to crash, if I
close the GUI, Hexter (I described the issue above) instead of my real
DX7. Btw. for Calf monosynth Qtractor's mixer fader completely doesn't
work and Qtractor always crashes when closing the monosynth GUI.
Completely OT: Loop play to practise and when ready to push record,
doesn't work for the new version of Qtractor anymore? Or am I missing
something?
Regards,
Ralf
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From: Holger M. <ho...@ma...> - 2014-08-13 17:59:24
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On Wed, 13 Aug 2014, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > Hi, > > now I can underpin my claim with routing issues. It was a long time ago, > that I used the computer and Qtractor to make music, so I don't remember > all the details, but at least yesterday night/this morning I experienced > one of the uncountable issues. > > hexter plugin -> [ i n s e r t ] Fons' parametric eq > | ^ > -> external 19" gear-| > > fluid plugin -> [ i n s e r t ] Fons' parametric eq > | ^ > -> external 19" gear-| > > If I use hexter, the insert does _not_ work correctly, resp. Qtractor's > channel fader 0 setting or any value close to 0 doesn't work, so a > silent mix is impossible. The fader is not an audio fader and the panner is not an audio panner. They are sending MIDI commands. Maybe Hexter doesn't honor it. I don't use the faders at all, not for MIDI tracks and not for audio tracks because AUX send are pre fader. I use a simple LADSPA stereo amplifier and CALF stereo tools to handle stereo signals and pan them: http://www.marzen.de/tmp/qtractor-mixer.png I can't say anything about Wet/Dry issues in Inserts because I use AUX sends only. |
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From: Ralf M. <ral...@al...> - 2014-08-14 06:32:41
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On Wed, 2014-08-13 at 19:59 +0200, Holger Marzen wrote: > http://www.marzen.de/tmp/qtractor-mixer.png Most times in my life I worked as an audio and video engineer, so I expect for my home recording the same professional workflow. Your approach of mixing seems to be completely different to mine. I'm doing old school engineering, IOW the basic for the song I' doing now, for each channel is Fons' parametric EQ and I will add at least one aux for reverb today, but limiting/compression is something to avoid. Placing instruments in the "frequency room" by using EQs or by killing dynamic are completely different schools. The long and the short of it, you found your personal way using Qtracor in a satisfying way, but Qtractor hardly can be used for a common professional engineering workflow. Qtractor's mixer design needs a lot of improvement. A good mixer without automation is better, than such an unfinished mixer with automation. Note that motorized faders in professional studios are seldom used to move the faders during a production, they usually are used to restore different production mixer settings. Panning vs balance and audio vs MIDI CC fading are also serious issues. The mixer should control the audio stream and not send MIDI CCs. For stereo channels there should be the choice to balance between left and right or to individual pan the left and the right channel. 2 Cents, Ralf |
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From: Holger M. <ho...@ma...> - 2014-08-14 19:39:55
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On Thu, 14 Aug 2014, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Wed, 2014-08-13 at 19:59 +0200, Holger Marzen wrote: > > http://www.marzen.de/tmp/qtractor-mixer.png > > Most times in my life I worked as an audio and video engineer, so I > expect for my home recording the same professional workflow. Your > approach of mixing seems to be completely different to mine. I'm doing > old school engineering, IOW the basic for the song I' doing now, for > each channel is Fons' parametric EQ and I will add at least one aux for > reverb today, but limiting/compression is something to avoid. Placing I use the limiter as the first plugin as a "gain knob". It never has something to limit. It's there "just to be sure". For vocals I used offline compressing for some time, now I use online compressing. I like it for pop music. > instruments in the "frequency room" by using EQs or by killing dynamic > are completely different schools. The long and the short of it, you > found your personal way using Qtracor in a satisfying way, but Qtractor > hardly can be used for a common professional engineering workflow. > Qtractor's mixer design needs a lot of improvement. A good mixer without > automation is better, than such an unfinished mixer with automation. Automation comes very handy to activate an AUX send to an echo when I want to echo only one word or a few notes. > Note that motorized faders in professional studios are seldom used to > move the faders during a production, they usually are used to restore > different production mixer settings. Panning vs balance and audio vs > MIDI CC fading are also serious issues. The mixer should control the > audio stream and not send MIDI CCs. For stereo channels there should be > the choice to balance between left and right or to individual pan the > left and the right channel. Of course the mixer in Qtractor can be improved: - Multiple rows for the channel strip to get them onto the screen at once - Switchable pre/post fader for AUX sends and Inserts - Second fader and VU-meter (audio) for MIDI-tracks Yes, there are some issues with AUX sends. Sometimes the order is important. But with the song I am working I have no problem having an echo bus, AUX sends to this bus and an Insert (working as a Send only) to a Reverb's bus' input, so the echo gets some reverb. Not a perfect solution but it works and it's free and open source software. As you could see I enlarged the plugin boxes in the mixer strips. That would be impossible with closed source software. BTW I am no developer. I use Qtractor and write bug reports and wishlists. If you want to go "pro-like" maybe Harrison Mixbus is something for you. It's a commercial version of Ardour. |
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From: Ralf M. <ral...@al...> - 2014-08-14 20:31:42
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On Thu, 2014-08-14 at 21:39 +0200, Holger Marzen wrote: > I use the limiter as the first plugin as a "gain knob". It never has > something to limit. It's there "just to be sure". Many people unfortunately use limiters and all kinds of dynamic effects in combination with automation, so IMO a lot of fineness gets lost. Gain indeed could be an issue. Since I want an EQ for each channel and fil-plugins, Fons' parametric EQ is ok, I use it, not only for filtering frequencies, but also to control gain. The EQ does provide gain control, even when the filters are bypassed. |
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From: Holger M. <ho...@ma...> - 2014-08-14 20:38:07
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On Thu, 14 Aug 2014, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Thu, 2014-08-14 at 21:39 +0200, Holger Marzen wrote: > > I use the limiter as the first plugin as a "gain knob". It never has > > something to limit. It's there "just to be sure". > > Many people unfortunately use limiters and all kinds of dynamic effects > in combination with automation, so IMO a lot of fineness gets lost. > > Gain indeed could be an issue. Since I want an EQ for each channel and > fil-plugins, Fons' parametric EQ is ok, I use it, not only for filtering > frequencies, but also to control gain. The EQ does provide gain control, > even when the filters are bypassed. I ended up with Calf Limiter as a gain tool because it offers a VU meter, too. So it's easy to see if linuxsampler is too loud and would cause some distortion in the following plugins. Setting linuxsampler's volume wasn't reliable in my setup. Sometimes it forgot its settings. So I keep linuxsampler at 100% and damp it with Calf Limiter. A simple amp with a VU-meter or an overdrive indicator would do the job as well but I haven't found one yet. |
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From: Ralf M. <ral...@al...> - 2014-08-15 08:13:26
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Guten Morgen Holger :) On Fri, 2014-08-15 at 10:08 +0200, Holger Marzen wrote: > Linuxsampler has no builtin GUI, that's a design decision. In Qtractor > both linuxsampler-dssi and linuxsampler-lv2 work ok. You have to load > the sounds with Qsampler or Jsampler, then Qtractor saves this settings > in the session file. Thank you. Another issue, but I migh be mistaken, IIRC Linuxsampler didn't resample, if the samples were 44.1 KHZ and I wanted to produce using 48KHz this didn't work. > I'll send you some free sf2 soundfonts with Mellotron sounds that I > found on the web. Thank you, that would be very kind.I guess you need to do this off-list. Gruß, Ralf |
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From: Holger M. <ho...@ma...> - 2014-08-15 09:13:17
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On Fri, 15 Aug 2014, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > Guten Morgen Holger :) > > On Fri, 2014-08-15 at 10:08 +0200, Holger Marzen wrote: > > Linuxsampler has no builtin GUI, that's a design decision. In Qtractor > > both linuxsampler-dssi and linuxsampler-lv2 work ok. You have to load > > the sounds with Qsampler or Jsampler, then Qtractor saves this settings > > in the session file. > > Thank you. Another issue, but I migh be mistaken, IIRC Linuxsampler > didn't resample, if the samples were 44.1 KHZ and I wanted to produce > using 48KHz this didn't work. Never tried since my projects and my jackd all use 44.1 kHz. |
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