--- a/doc/5.reference/list-help.pd
+++ b/doc/5.reference/list-help.pd
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-#N canvas 595 167 606 528 12;
+#N canvas 1010 142 597 581 12;
 #X obj 29 11 list;
 #X text 76 12 - building and using variable-length messages;
 #N canvas 88 122 654 658 about-lists 0;
@@ -47,7 +47,7 @@
 #X connect 6 0 4 0;
 #X connect 12 0 14 0;
 #X connect 13 0 14 0;
-#X restore 51 354 pd about-lists;
+#X restore 53 386 pd about-lists;
 #X obj 22 82 list append;
 #X obj 22 107 list prepend;
 #X obj 22 157 list trim;
@@ -201,11 +201,11 @@
 #X connect 9 0 22 1;
 #X connect 22 0 5 0;
 #X restore 484 106 pd prepend;
-#X text 30 267 In general \, inlets that take lists (two each for append/prepend
+#X text 32 299 In general \, inlets that take lists (two each for append/prepend
 \, and one each for split and trim) will convert non-list messages
 (such as "set 5") to lists (such as "list set 5" automatically. Here's
 more about lists in Pd:;
-#X text 31 383 And here are some examples showing how to use these
+#X text 33 415 And here are some examples showing how to use these
 objects to compose and/or use variable length messages:;
 #N canvas 381 50 719 646 example1 0;
 #X obj 43 173 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 0 -6 0 8 -262144 -1
@@ -273,8 +273,8 @@
 #X connect 15 0 17 0;
 #X connect 17 0 14 0;
 #X connect 18 0 11 0;
-#X restore 222 436 pd example1;
-#X text 65 435 simple sequencer;
+#X restore 224 468 pd example1;
+#X text 67 467 simple sequencer;
 #N canvas 126 50 568 569 example2 0;
 #X obj 66 263 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 0 -6 0 8 -262144 -1
 -1;
@@ -325,9 +325,9 @@
 #X connect 16 0 15 0;
 #X connect 16 1 11 1;
 #X connect 16 2 19 0;
-#X restore 222 462 pd example2;
-#X text 56 464 another sequencer;
-#X text 115 491 serializer;
+#X restore 224 494 pd example2;
+#X text 58 496 another sequencer;
+#X text 117 523 serializer;
 #N canvas 116 50 673 426 example3 0;
 #X obj 19 287 list split 1;
 #X obj 19 378 print;
@@ -357,9 +357,9 @@
 #X connect 4 1 3 1;
 #X connect 5 0 2 1;
 #X connect 6 0 4 0;
-#X restore 222 489 pd example3;
-#X obj 23 233 list;
-#X text 71 234 - short for "list append";
+#X restore 224 521 pd example3;
+#X obj 30 265 list;
+#X text 78 266 - short for "list append";
 #X text 141 185 - output number of items in list;
 #N canvas 187 106 576 365 length 0;
 #X msg 126 183 1 2 3;
@@ -385,18 +385,27 @@
 #X restore 484 183 pd length;
 #X obj 22 182 list length;
 #X text 23 53 The list object's first argument sets its function:;
-#X text 353 494 updated for Pd version 0.40.;
-#N canvas 336 258 459 439 fromsymbol 0;
-#X msg 85 164 symbol seventeen;
-#X symbolatom 85 190 10 0 0 0 - - -, f 10;
-#X obj 85 213 list fromsymbol;
-#X obj 85 237 print symbol-chars;
-#X text 27 55 The "list fromsymbol" object outputs the individual bytes
-of a each character of a symbol as a list of numbers.;
-#X text 29 18 length - output the character codes of a symbol;
+#X obj 22 207 list fromsymbol;
+#X obj 22 232 list tosymbol;
+#X text 138 220 - convert symbols to/from numeric characters;
+#N canvas 614 95 552 344 from/to 1;
+#X msg 71 200 symbol seventeen;
+#X symbolatom 71 226 10 0 0 0 - - -, f 10;
+#X obj 71 249 list fromsymbol;
+#X text 92 15 fromsymbol and tosymbol - symbols to and from lists of
+numeric character codes, f 41;
+#X msg 237 204 115 101 118 101 110 116 101 101 110;
+#X obj 236 232 list tosymbol;
+#X obj 71 273 print from-symbol;
+#X text 39 69 These allow you to do string manipulations (such as scanning
+a filename for '/' characters). THey convert a list of numbers (which
+might be ASCII or might be unicode if \, for example \, they represent
+a filename on a non-ASCII machine) to or from a symbol., f 63;
+#X symbolatom 236 258 10 0 0 0 - - -, f 10;
 #X connect 0 0 1 0;
 #X connect 1 0 2 0;
-#X connect 2 0 3 0;
-#X restore 483 208 pd fromsymbol;
-#X obj 22 207 list fromsymbol;
-#X text 141 210 - output the character codes of a symbol;
+#X connect 2 0 6 0;
+#X connect 4 0 5 0;
+#X connect 5 0 8 0;
+#X restore 483 221 pd from/to;
+#X text 355 526 updated for Pd version 0.46.;