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#215 an almost bug free phpGedView version

phpGedView
closed-fixed
John Finlay
9
2004-03-05
2004-02-13
Arne Eckmann
No

Most phpGedView versions are exceeding what many
people expect from a web based gedcom viewer: Part of
the PGV community out there isn’t interested in
constantly upgrading phpGedView, because they don’t
need, and they don’t want, all the added functionality.

However, most people do need, and they do want an
almost bug free phpGedView version.

Due to the nature of open software the release versions
still contains bugs, and therefore it is expected that
minor versions like 2.65.x is used for bug fixes, while new
features, experimentations and such is expected to be
done in the alphas and betas and such.

However, with phpGedView there are no difference
between the alphas, the betas, the release candidates,
the major releases and the minor releases - they are all
the same, and that’s a great pity, because in that way
the community out there never gets an almost bug free
phpGedView.

And why would old phpGedView users out there upgrade
their installations, if they don’t need the added
functionality, and they don’t want new bugs?

At this time I feel that the greatest addition to
phpGedView, and the greatest gift to the old
phpGedView users, would be an almost bug free version
which would motivate them to do a security related
upgrade - minus the extra bugs.

If you would ask me, I would advice to forget about ver.
2.65.3 and take ver. 2.65.2, fix the known bugs, add the
missing extra-help pages, and promote it to 2.65.2 Final,
final version. That’ll leave a fine security-fixed
phpGedView for those who don’t want more added
functionality.

Best regards,
Arne

Discussion

1 2 > >> (Page 1 of 2)
  • Arne Eckmann
    Arne Eckmann
    2004-02-13

    • priority: 5 --> 9
     
  • John Finlay
    John Finlay
    2004-02-17

    • assigned_to: nobody --> yalnifj
     
  • John Finlay
    John Finlay
    2004-02-17

    Logged In: YES
    user_id=300048

    Hi Arne,

    Version 2.65.3 is essential for security upgrades.

    Version 2.65.3 is the same as 2.65.2 except that .3 fixes
    some login problems that were in older 2.65.x releases.

    What bugs are there that you want fixed? What features do
    you want to be able to turn off?

    Alpha = CVS
    Beta = Beta release Packages
    Final = Tested as fully as the developers have time to test.

    I have often said that it is impossible for us to test every
    gedcom configuration on every PHP configuration under every
    possible PhpGedView configuration. We try to test the most
    common configurations but cannot test them all. If you find
    a bug in the way you have it set up then let us know and we
    will try to fix it.

    --John

     
  • Arne Eckmann
    Arne Eckmann
    2004-02-18

    Logged In: YES
    user_id=818819

    Hi John

    You said:
    > What bugs are there that you want fixed?

    Try to look here:

    http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?
    func=detail&aid=895537&group_id=55456&atid=477079

    In that thread both KosherJava and Kurt said, that bugs in
    ver. 2.65.3 won't be fixed. And in general they only cares
    about the v.3.0 alpha.

    In my opinion that kind of attitude must be hard to
    understand for the ordinary users - so much the more when
    the v.3.0 alpha isn't available for download to the ordinary
    users.

    You also said:
    > What features do you want to be able to turn off?

    Sorry, but I was trying to report that some users out there,
    isn't interested in upgrading or being able to turn things off.
    They just liked the PGV better when it was simpler and more
    stable, and to some users the simplicity, stability and smaller
    size of and older version is much better than the added
    complexity, instability, bugs and larger size of a newer version
    with a lot of fearures which would have to be turned off.

    You also said:
    > Alpha = CVS
    > Beta = Beta release Packages
    > Final = Tested as fully as the developers have time to test.

    From most users point of view, the alphas and betas are for
    the testers and for those who absolutely must live life on the
    bleeding edge.

    From most users point of view the finals are expected to be
    largely bugfree, and the minor versions are expected to
    contain minor bug fixes and absolutely not new features and
    not new bugs.

    To some users with 5 MB only websites (free sites at 1go.dk)
    the PGV versions footprint is essential, and alone for that
    reason such users are dependant on the availability of almost
    bugfree older versions of PGV.

    So, basically the discussion really isn't about what I want, but
    what other users want.

    Best regards,
    Arne

     
  • KosherJava
    KosherJava
    2004-02-18

    Logged In: YES
    user_id=634811

    Arne,
    Can you try using the CSS from cvs (changed last week or so)
    and let me know if this somewhat fixes the alignment
    problems in Mozilla.
    Thanks

     
  • John Finlay
    John Finlay
    2004-02-18

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    Hi Arne,

    The biggest problem is that as open source developers we
    don't have the resources to support multiple versions. It
    would require that one or two developers be completely
    dedicated to a single version. There are really only 5 active
    developers on the project. Of those 5, only 3 (Roland,
    Jeremy, and myself) work on all the aspects of the project.
    The other developers are focused on specific areas of
    development.

    The only way we could ever make something that is
    completely bug free and support past versions is if we started
    charging for support. I don't want to do that. So, this
    means that bug fixes will just get rolled into the next release
    along with all of the new features.

    If you look at what other open source projects are doing,
    alphas and betas don't exist. Take the GAIM project for
    example. If there are bugs in the program you deal with the
    bugs until a new version comes out.

    It is very true that development is is full swing for version 3.
    And version 3 is going to be quite a bit different. Many old
    bugs won't even apply in version 3 because the things
    causing the bugs will have changed. I believe that version
    3.0 will be very bug free, though I can never guarentee that
    any version will be completely bug free.

    I am still very concerned with bugs and in helping to support
    users. I want the program to work for them just as I want it
    to work for me. But I just don't have the time to guarentee a
    bug free version.

    --John

     
  • Arne Eckmann
    Arne Eckmann
    2004-02-19

    Logged In: YES
    user_id=818819

    Hi John,

    Its too bad, that my English is so bad that I cant make
    myself understood:

    Im well aware that you cant support multiple versions, and
    since some older versions are available for download you
    really dont need to support multiple versions. All you really
    needs, are not to leave major goofs like ver. 2.65.3
    completely unfixed behind.

    Its often demonstrated that considerable resources are used
    in helping random individuals with exotic problems which often
    is caused by the individuals web hosting or specific settings
    and at the same time general fixes that everybody can
    benefit from are refused: It doesnt make sense, but like you
    say, its open software, and it dont have to make sense.

    Maybe the problem is, that open software mostly appeals to a
    tiny nerd-like community, where genealogy in general appeals
    to a large non-nerd middle of the road type of community.
    Making open software and genealogy an uneasy marriage?

    In general youll find that the genealogy community first and
    foremost are interested in their genealogy. The programs and
    other applications comes in second and only come into play in
    brief periods where the genealogists/hobbyists are setting up
    their web presentations, or replaces inconvenient software
    with more convenient software. In general youll also find that
    most genealogy-interested people are well past their teens,
    and for that reason alone you shouldnt expect to see too
    many of the core-users hanging around in the project forums.

    However, in more than one sense the phpGedView project is
    at a crossroad now, implementing a new policy, showing a
    new attitude and taking off in a different direction from what
    it had before.

    Question was, if those getting off at this crossroad should be
    left off with a goofed version like ver. 2.65.3. And the answer
    was yes. Plain and simple: yes.

    My advice would be, that those with ver. 2.65.3 would be
    better of with rolling back to ver. 2.65.2.

    Best regards,

    Arne

     
  • John Finlay
    John Finlay
    2004-02-23

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    Hi Arne,

    I currently do not have plans to do another 2.65.x release
    because of time constraints. But I can change my mind if I
    see a need. I haven't yet seen a need for a 2.65.4 release.

    Could you please specifically list what you think is goofed in
    version 2.65.3 that needs to be fixed? If a 2.65.4 is needed I
    will make one, but from my perspective 2.65.3 works very
    well. You are more involved with the Danish community and
    hear a lot more from them than I do. I can't be everywhere
    that the project is anymore, so I have probably missed some
    things.

    I don't think that version 3.0 will be so different from version
    2.65 that people won't want to upgrade and I think that most
    people will want the new features. I also think that those
    who get off at the crossroads of version 2.65.3 and version
    3.0 are those types of people who won't upgrade to a version
    2.65.4 either. They will be content with version 2.65.3.

    I know that many genealogists are not computer folks and I
    don't think that PhpGedView is designed for your average
    genealogist. Setting up PhpGedView requires some
    knowledge of how the internet works and how websites
    work. My wife is a genealogist. She could not setup a
    PhpGedView site without my help, and neither could many of
    our genealogist friends. It requires some extra knowledge to
    run a website with something like PGV.

    My wife and I have talked about setting up a commercial
    hosting site that only runs PGV websites. Someone would
    come and sign-up and automatically have a running PGV site
    that all they needed to do was upload their gedcoms too. I
    don't have the time or the money needed to start such a
    company, but that is what the average genealogist who
    doesn't understand the internet needs in order to have a PGV
    website.

    --John

     
  • Arne Eckmann
    Arne Eckmann
    2004-02-26

    Logged In: YES
    user_id=818819

    Hi John,

    You wrote:

    > Could you please specifically list what you think is goofed
    > in version 2.65.3 that needs to be fixed?

    Ive filed a bug report long ago but only had
    arrogant/negative responses from KosherJava and Kurt.

    > I don't think that version 3.0 will be so different from
    version
    > 2.65 that people won't want to upgrade and I think that
    most
    > people will want the new features. I also think that those
    > who get off at the crossroads of version 2.65.3 and version
    > 3.0 are those types of people who won't upgrade to a
    version
    > 2.65.4 either. They will be content with version 2.65.3.

    Well, I have no idea what version 3.0 are/will be like, but I
    guess it must be quite a leap forward when moving from ver.
    2.65 to ver. 3.0.

    However, every new version has new features and grows
    bigger and bigger, and size alone dictates people with limited
    webspace to get off and for the users of the free webspace
    at 1go.dk (5MB) the PGV and their individual gedcoms has
    grown to a size where it no longer fit into the available
    webspace not to mention the extra webspace required by the
    upgrade utility alone: The point here isnt that PGV should
    stop from growing, it merely explains why some of the users
    are forced to get off at the crossroad.

    I cant tell if anybody will upgrade from ver. 2.65.3 to ver.
    2.65.4, but thats not my concern: Im thinking about those
    with older versions who needs to upgrade from a security
    point of view, and they probably wont upgrade to get some
    security they think they dont need, if that security comes
    with a degradation from the version they already have.

    To many people this alignment in ver. 2.65.3 (MSIE6)

    http://eckmann.dk/cssprobs/2.65.3.ie6.2.gif

    is a goof as compared to this alignment in ver. 2.65.2
    (MSIE6)

    http://eckmann.dk/cssprobs/2.65.2.ie6.2.gif

    And if it wasnt because of the delicate political issue involved
    in this, I have no doubt - what so ever - that the goofed
    alignment of ver. 2.65.3 also would be unacceptable to you:
    Why would anybody go from a perfect alignment, to a
    completely goofed alignment. It doesnt make sense, except if
    sacred political issues are involved.

    And this goofed alignment are all over ver. 2.65.3 and no
    matter if you uses MSIE6 or Mozilla - still the alignment
    problem doesnt exist in PHPLaunch, because its internal
    WebBrowser component doesnt understand the styles used
    by KosherJava.

    > I know that many genealogists are not computer folks and I
    > don't think that PhpGedView is designed for your average
    > genealogist. Setting up PhpGedView requires some
    > knowledge of how the internet works and how websites
    > work. My wife is a genealogist. She could not setup a
    > PhpGedView site without my help, and neither could many
    > of our genealogist friends. It requires some extra
    knowledge
    > to run a website with something like PGV.

    In my experience that isnt a real problem in the Danish
    genealogy circles, in news:dk.videnskab.historie.genealogi
    there are always several users offering their free help to
    those not able to setup PGV.

    > My wife and I have talked about setting up a commercial
    > hosting site that only runs PGV websites. Someone would
    > come and sign-up and automatically have a running PGV
    > site that all they needed to do was upload their gedcoms
    too.
    > I don't have the time or the money needed to start such a
    > company, but that is what the average genealogist who
    > doesn't understand the internet needs in order to have a
    > PGV website.

    But, why not franchise such a concept to existing and
    interested web host companies ?

    How about a major web host like the Utah based
    http://www.prohosting.com ?

    Best regards
    Arne

     
  • KosherJava
    KosherJava
    2004-02-26

    Logged In: YES
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    Arne,
    We did not try to be arrogant. There were changes made to
    the code that we thought would not end up in version 2.65.x.
    The code was later merged into a new 2.65 branch and some of
    the code that was never meant to be included in 2.65.x was
    included by accident. Since the developers made many changes
    that we never intended to include in 2.65.x they were not
    properly documented and very hard to undo (correct me if I
    am wron John). The developers as well as the translators
    have full time jobs and do this for enjoyment. We have
    limited time and sadly can't always fix every issue. I am
    sorry if we came across negative/arrogant. It was not our
    intention to come accross that way.
    As for the internal browser used by PHPLaunch, cant you use
    IE instead? JUst call the IE executable from your launcher
    like this:
    "C:\Program Files\Internet Explorer\iexplore.exe" -new
    http://localhost:PORTNUMBER (whatever port the server is
    running on) The -new starts it in a new process. This way
    you would be using IE as the viewer instead of the the
    internal viewer. Would this not work (I never tried
    PHPLaunch so I am not sure this is technically feasible).

     
  • Arne Eckmann
    Arne Eckmann
    2004-02-26

    Logged In: YES
    user_id=818819

    KosherJava,

    You wrote:

    > As for the internal browser used by PHPLaunch, cant
    > you use IE instead? JUst call the IE executable from
    > your launcher like this:
    > "C:\Program Files\Internet Explorer\iexplore.exe"
    > -new http://localhost:PORTNUMBER (whatever port
    > the server is running on) The -new starts it in a
    > new process. This way you would be using IE as the
    > viewer instead of the the internal viewer. Would
    > this not work (I never tried PHPLaunch so I am not
    > sure this is technically feasible).

    Unfortunately my command of the English language is too
    bad, so you got me wrong: I consider it an advantage that
    PHPLaunch doesn't uderstand the formatting codes, because
    that lack of understanding causes PHPLaunch to align the
    text correctly!

    The internal WebBrowser component in PHPLaunch is just a
    wrapper for the MSIE core engine (Active-X) but apparently
    it - under certain conditions - behaves slightly different in the
    PHPLaunch.

    Should anybody want to use the MSIE browser instead of the
    WebBrowser component in PHPLaunch, they just need to start
    PHPLaunch and leave it running, and then enter
    http://localhost:32123/ in the browsers addressline. But who
    wants to exchanged a perfect alignment for a goofy
    alignment?

    Best regards,

    Arne

     
  • John Finlay
    John Finlay
    2004-02-26

    Logged In: YES
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    Hi Arne,

    To address the size concerns, I've added the following text
    to the readme.txt letting users know what they can safely
    remove from the program to save space:

    <--- START OF COPY--->
    To install PhpGedView unzip the compressed package and
    upload the files to the a directory on your web server. If you
    have limited space on your server, you can save space in the
    following ways:
    1. Do not upload the "docs" folder
    2. Delete the themes from the themes folder that you do not
    plan on using
    3. Delete some of the language files that you do not want
    <--- END OF COPY --->

    Doing this you can save a few MB of space on the server.
    PGV is getting large, but the things that take up the greatest
    amount of space are documentation and languages.

    I'm sorry about the alignment issues Arne. I simply didn't
    know they were there. When I look at my version 2.65.3 test
    site I don't have any alignment issues and everything looks
    great. You can have a look here:
    http://john.lib.byu.edu/phpgedview2/

    I rarely use PHPLaunch so I usually don't test the site in it. I
    will start testing more in PHPLaunch.

    You Said:
    > But, why not franchise such a concept to existing and
    > interested web host companies ?
    >
    > How about a major web host like the Utah based
    > http://www.prohosting.com ?

    A few months ago someone contacted me about doing this,
    but then they backed out and I haven't heard back from
    them.

    Partnering with another company is a good idea that I hadn't
    really thought of. I would have to come up with a good
    business plan to present to them. I would also have to do
    some sort of marketing survey to see if there is enough
    demand for it. I'll have to look into that too.

    --John

     
  • Arne Eckmann
    Arne Eckmann
    2004-02-26

    Logged In: YES
    user_id=818819

    Hi John

    You wrote:

    > I'm sorry about the alignment issues Arne. I simply didn't
    > know they were there. When I look at my version 2.65.3
    test
    > site I don't have any alignment issues and everything looks
    > great. You can have a look here:
    > http://john.lib.byu.edu/phpgedview2/

    In my MSIE6 browser it looks like this:

    http://www.eckmann.dk/cssprobs/john.gif

    http://www.eckmann.dk/cssprobs/john2.gif

    But what I wasn't aware of until now is, that the alignment
    only is goofed when the Danish Language is selected. And
    since you view the sites with the English language selected,
    you don't see anything wrong, but since I view the sites with
    the Danish language selected it looks goofed to me. Only that
    I never expected the selection of the Danish language could
    influence on the alignments.

    > I rarely use PHPLaunch so I usually don't test the site in it.
    > I will start testing more in PHPLaunch.

    But like I said, it doesn't look goofed in PHPLaunch.

    Best regards,

    Arne

     
  • Arne Eckmann
    Arne Eckmann
    2004-02-27

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    When visiting John's site at
    http://john.lib.byu.edu/phpgedview2/
    I found that the alignment at his site was just as goofed as
    the alignment at my site, but when I changed the language
    from Danish to English the problem disappeared.

    A quick check revealed that the alignment only are goofed
    when the Danish language are selected.

    Another quick check revealed that the lang_settings_std.php
    distributed with 2.65.3 package is ver. 1.3.2.1 and it includes
    the feature that for some reason somebody had changed the
    $lang["TEXT_DIRECTION"] = "0";
    to
    $lang["TEXT_DIRECTION"] = "ltr";
    for all other languages but NOT for the Danish language, and
    now it appear that this "special feature" are responsible for all
    the goofed Danish alignments.

    The reason the PHPLaunch didn't have a goofed alignment is,
    that I later placed a ver. 1.7 lang_settings_std.php there,
    which I had from Kurt in order to change the clock display
    from AM/PM style to European 24 hour clock style.

    I have no idea, as to why the TEXT_DIRECTION setting was
    changed from "0" to "ltr" for all languages except for the
    Danish language in the lang_settings_std.php which was
    distributed in the 2.65.3 package.

    When KosherJava said, that the developers group had become
    too crowded with the inclusion of the translators, I instantly
    left that group, and actually I never have had any access to
    the CVS, except for the public RO part of the CVS.

    I have never heard anything of a change to the
    TEXT_DIRECTION in the lang_settings_std.php, but it surely
    must be the first thing a developer comes to think of, when
    he comes across an alignment (or text-direction) bug.

    Such a small thing, and such a small effort it would have
    taken if only the good will was present - but unfortunately
    the good will turned our to be a deserted place on a far away
    planet in another galaxy ;-(

    Here in Denmark we have a saying:

    "If anything is worth making, it is worth making well. If
    anything isn't worth making well - then don't make it"

    Here in Denmark we also has another saying:

    "Too many cooks spoils the food"

    Best regards

    Arne

     
  • KosherJava
    KosherJava
    2004-02-27

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    I am sorry it was such a small issue that we missed. From
    your bug reports I assumed that the alignment issue was for
    all languages and therefore assumed that too much had been
    merged.

    <quote>
    When KosherJava said, that the developers group had become
    too crowded with the inclusion of the translators, I instantly
    left that group, and actually I never have had any access to
    the CVS, except for the public RO part of the CVS.
    </quote>
    Sorry but I never said that and tried to explain it then. My
    comment as I explained earlier was to allow the list to be
    open to more people as read only but read and write for the
    devs AND translators. I dont know why thius still bothers
    you and why you seem to be still harping on it. It was never
    my intention and if you took it wrong I appologize for what
    is seemingly poor use of language if you interpeted it this way.

     
  • John Finlay
    John Finlay
    2004-02-27

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    Hi Arne,

    Being on the developers list only sets your permissions to
    access the CVS. You still need to set up a CVS client. Here
    is a recent message from the developers forum about how to
    get setup with a CVS client:

    ------- START ---------
    To get the latest code, you will need to have a CVS client.
    Some good clients for windows are WinCVS or TortoiseCVS.

    The following document describes how to setup developer
    access to CVS using WinCVS.
    http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?
    docid=766&group_id=1

    You can also search this forum for CVS and get more
    information about the using the CVS.

    The module name you will need is: phpGedView

    If you get stuck or need help just ask. Getting CVS setup for
    developer access is one of the harder things to do. But once
    you have it you can get and make immediate changes.
    --------- END --------------

    I'm sorry that there are alignment issues in verison 2.65.3 in
    Danish. This just shows another good reason why there
    should be a translator for each language on the development
    team, to make sure that things are working right in other
    languages before the release is sent out.

    The alignment issues appear to be fixed in version 3.0:
    http://john.lib.byu.edu/phpgedview/indilist.php?
    alpha=F&surname_sublist=no

    You Said:
    > Here in Denmark we have a saying:
    >
    > "If anything is worth making, it is worth making well. If
    > anything isn't worth making well - then don't make it"
    >
    > Here in Denmark we also has another saying:
    >
    > "Too many cooks spoils the food"

    We have the same sayings in English. Perhaps I have put
    PGV on the fast track to its own doom. Perhaps I will burn
    out and get tired of it. Perhaps it will become a montrousity
    that consumes all of us. Or just perhaps, with a little faith
    and patience, it will succeed.

    We will likely make many mistakes along the way. Remember
    I'm only 27 years old, still young and inexperienced with a lot
    left to learn. I'm just trying to do my best.

    If you think about all of the things that PGV does, and
    remember that it does over 90% of them very well. Then
    think of the scope of this project, think of the tremendous
    amount of time that has been freely donated by people of
    many different cultures and languages. It is AMAZING and
    INSPIRING that it even works at all. I believe that it is God's
    will that PGV has become successful, and I believe that He
    wants to see it continue to become successful.

    --John

     
  • Logged In: YES
    user_id=874797

    Here are my thoughts (political hazard),

    At the moment, there is a lot going on, on all sides of PGV.
    Surely 2.65.3 is not as clean as it should be. That is a pity
    but also a fact now. All we can do is make sure 3.0 will be as
    bugfree as possible. That is the intention, as it always is.

    I do not think it is fair to accuse us of not having any will to
    help out. We try were we can and I think it is natural for us
    to also have times where we just don't feel like working on
    PGV. We all have our ups and downs.

    Regards,

    Roland

     
  • Arne Eckmann
    Arne Eckmann
    2004-02-28

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    Hi Roland,

    Why are you getting into this?

    To my knowledge nobody and least of all me - has accused
    you of anything. I guess that most people and certainly me -
    will agree that you are extremely helpful. So to me it
    basically looks like you want to take this opportunity to
    demonstrate to John, that you are standing by his side, ready
    to fight the enemy.

    But what if John doesnt see me as the enemy or does he
    Roland?

    Basically you are not involved in this dispute Roland!

    Best regards,

    Arne

     
  • Logged In: YES
    user_id=816380

    Hey guys,

    Can we please keep this PGV-internal?
    This discussion has elements that are of no concern to our
    users at all and there is no need to bother them with our
    problems. I'd like to suggest the developers forum or mail as a
    good place to continue.

    Boudewijn

     
  • Arne Eckmann
    Arne Eckmann
    2004-02-28

    Logged In: YES
    user_id=818819

    Hi Boudewijn

    At least one outsider - me - seems to be involved in this.

    Best regards,

    Arne

     
  • Arne Eckmann
    Arne Eckmann
    2004-02-29

    Logged In: YES
    user_id=818819

    Hi John

    Lets forget about the CVS. Im not a member of the team,
    and I dont want access to the restricted part of the CVS. I
    only mentioned it to make it clear, that I have had no access
    to the file in question.

    You wrote:

    > I'm sorry that there are alignment issues in verison 2.65.3
    > in Danish. This just shows another good reason why there
    > should be a translator for each language on the development
    > team, to make sure that things are working right in other
    > languages before the release is sent out.

    Now, basically a translator cant make sure of anything if the
    developers dont want to listen, or if the developers just are
    so preoccupied with their own purposes that nothing else
    count. In such a situation you basically are asking the
    translators to get frustrated.

    You also wrote:

    > We have the same sayings in English. Perhaps I have put
    > PGV on the fast track to its own doom. Perhaps I will burn
    > out and get tired of it. Perhaps it will become a
    montrousity
    > that consumes all of us. Or just perhaps, with a little faith
    > and patience, it will succeed.

    Im sorry, because those sayings were not addressed to you
    or for that matter to Roland. Its obvious to everybody that
    you and for that matter also Roland are very serious and
    goes to great lengths to make sure that PGV are working for
    everybody out there.

    However, at this time there are several cooks in the PGV
    kitchen, and I was told that they only were cooking for the
    fun of it. And apparently it wasnt fun to get the code to
    work properly. I cant understand that kind of attitude: In my
    opinion its only fun when the code are working properly.

    So, when I talk about everything worth doing is worth doing
    well, it represents the opposite attitude to for the fun of it
    attitude.

    These things are not addressed to you or for that matter to
    Roland. So, please dont take offence.

    Best regards,
    Arne

     
  • Arne Eckmann
    Arne Eckmann
    2004-03-01

    Logged In: YES
    user_id=818819

    In a late comment to the alignment bugs in PGV ver. 2.65.3,
    KosherJava suggested that my reporting of the bug was to
    blame, because it turned out that the bug was caused by a
    missing TEXT_DIRECTION setting in the Danish language, but
    my exaggerated bugreport had given him the impression that
    the bug existed in all language.

    I was astounded by that remark, because I didn't mention
    anything about any language, and basically - being an
    outsider - I had no idea that the alignment suddenly was
    dependant of the language selected, where I would expect
    that a developer who introduced that change in the modus
    operandi instantly would know that the selected language
    also selected the text direction.

    However, when I now looks further into the alignment bug,
    there seems to be more problems, and these problems also
    seems to exist when the English language is selected:

    When searching for a name, at John's site, and when the
    English language is selected, there seems to exist an
    alignment problem in the result-list:

    http://eckmann.dk/cssprobs/alignbug1.gif

    Still using John's site and still using the English language, an
    alignment problem also seems to exist in the medialist.

    Question is, if not the project should publish a list over what
    sorts of problems and bugs it is acceptable to report, and
    what sorts of problems and bugs that cannot be reported
    without causing animosity toward the reporting-person?

    Best regards,

    Arne

     
  • Arne Eckmann
    Arne Eckmann
    2004-03-01

    Logged In: YES
    user_id=818819

    Sorry, I forgot to include a link to the picture of the medialist
    bug:

    http://eckmann.dk/cssprobs/alignbug2.gif

    Best regards,

    Arne

     
  • John Finlay
    John Finlay
    2004-03-01

    Logged In: YES
    user_id=300048

    To Everyone,

    The basic foundations of working together on an Open Source
    project are mutual trust and respect. We all have to trust
    each other and give each other the benefit of the doubt.
    Nobody wants to pick a fight anymore than you do, so we
    shouldn't assume that they are trying to.

    In the future if anyone feels they are being mistreated by
    someone else they should first talk to that person directly
    and if that doesn't get them anywhere then they should
    contact me.

    Everyone is just trying to do their best. Everyone is just
    trying to be as good as they can.

    With this I would like the bickering to stop. Internal struggles
    will cause a project to fail faster than anything else. If you
    want to see PGV succeed then lets start working together
    again.

    Thanks,
    --John

     
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