From: Chip A. <we...@cr...> - 2013-11-03 21:02:37
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In reply to Jay... I think that your hopes for scalp-recorded EEG signals to correlate with "intention" is beyond the current state of the art. If you are willing to embed your EEG electrodes in the cortex itself, you may have more luck. But from the scalp, there just is just too much blurring from you skull and skin. My understanding is that the exploitation of scale-recorded EEG signals is not to the sophistication that you're hoping for. The closest thing to detecting "intention" that I'm aware of is the detection of "Mu Waves", which are associated with your motor centers. The Mu Waves appear and disappear in different parts of your brain (as seen from your scalp) based on moving different parts of your body. The most interesting part is that the Mu waves will appear or disappear just by *thinking* about moving those parts of the body. Now that's pretty cool. If you're interest in learning more about these signals and what kind of software might be required to detect them, you can google for "Mu Waves" or "Mu Rhythms", or you can check out my own recent tests to detect them on my head... http://eeghacker.blogspot.com/2013/10/finding-my-mu-waves.html If you want to try it for yourself, the OpenEEG hardware for Olimex should do the job, though only with two EEG channels. It is not very expensive and it is definitely sufficient to get started (though, IMO, their electrodes are not very good). If you out-grow the two channel system, the OpenBCI project that I'm associated with will enable 8 channels of EEG, which would allow you to exploit more spatial information to get a better view as to what's happening in your head. Good luck, Chip ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2013 11:29:59 -0800 From: Makorihi <mak...@gm...> Subject: [Openeeg-list] Status EEG problems/techniques? To: ope...@li... Message-ID: <CAC...@ma...> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hey all, I have heard about EEG throughout my life and I find it to be extremely interesting and have a wide range of implications if the technology advances further, but I realize that I have no knowledge as to the details of problems and hurdles people are facing in the field. I was hoping that someone on this list would have enough knowledge about this field to answer some of my questions or at least send me in the right direction. For one, I know that both the hardware and software have their own issues. Various different types of electrodes exist as well as different methods of amplifying the signals in preparation for processing. I'm not as interested in the hardware as I am in the 'software', or more accurately the methods used to transform these voltages from signal domain into other spaces (such as inferring complex 'actions' or decoding sight). What I am really wondering is how far have we come in this respect? Of course there are well known products such as Emotiv, but I am more interested in tackling the problem and coming up with a better solution than just buying some premade device. An in order to do so, I feel like I need some background knowledge and need to know where we stand today. I was hoping you guys could help me out with that! Just as a start, are there any papers in temporal correlation of different regions of the brain with respect to intention to action? The closest thing I have found to that is 'Detection of self-paced reaching movement intention from EEG signals' by Eileen Lew et all. ( http://infoscience.epfl.ch/record/178379/files/LewChSiMi12.pdf) But sadly, they did not tackle the particular thing I am interested in. Best Regards, Jay |
From: Ivan <iv...@em...> - 2013-11-05 14:35:04
|
Begin forwarded message: Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2013 15:45:51 +0200 From: Ivan <das...@gm...> To: ope...@li... Subject: Re: [Openeeg-list] Status EEG problems/techniques? http://www.google.ee/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&ved=0CEoQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Frecpat-bci.googlecode.com%2Fsvn%2Fdocu%2FEEGreckon.pdf&ei=QvN4Up2qO8qJ4gTcoIDwDA&usg=AFQjCNFDYYTPd0UzK8wxkc0x4giVl14zBg&sig2=KsBAx-DGMoo6_qW6kGsmXA&bvm=bv.55980276,d.bGE -Would be one such document on motor intention. Although they use more channels than 2. On Sun, 3 Nov 2013 11:29:59 -0800 Makorihi <mak...@gm...> wrote: > Hey all, > > I have heard about EEG throughout my life and I find it to be extremely > interesting and have a wide range of implications if the technology > advances further, but I realize that I have no knowledge as to the details > of problems and hurdles people are facing in the field. I was hoping that > someone on this list would have enough knowledge about this field to answer > some of my questions or at least send me in the right direction. > > For one, I know that both the hardware and software have their own issues. > Various different types of electrodes exist as well as different methods of > amplifying the signals in preparation for processing. I'm not as interested > in the hardware as I am in the 'software', or more accurately the methods > used to transform these voltages from signal domain into other spaces (such > as inferring complex 'actions' or decoding sight). > > What I am really wondering is how far have we come in this respect? Of > course there are well known products such as Emotiv, but I am more > interested in tackling the problem and coming up with a better solution > than just buying some premade device. An in order to do so, I feel like I > need some background knowledge and need to know where we stand today. I was > hoping you guys could help me out with that! > > Just as a start, are there any papers in temporal correlation of different > regions of the brain with respect to intention to action? The closest thing > I have found to that is 'Detection of self-paced reaching movement > intention from EEG signals' by Eileen Lew et all. ( > http://infoscience.epfl.ch/record/178379/files/LewChSiMi12.pdf) But sadly, > they did not tackle the particular thing I am interested in. > > Best Regards, > Jay -- Ivan <das...@gm...> -- Ivan <iv...@em...> |
From: Peter K. <pet...@gm...> - 2013-11-05 19:48:48
|
Mikkel C. Vinding, Mads Jensen, Morten Overgaard, Distinct electrophysiological potentials for intention in action and prior intention for action, Cortex, Available online 19 September 2013, ISSN 0010-9452, http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.cortex.2013.09.001. (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0010945213002347) Abstract: Abstract The role of conscious intention in relation to motoric movements has become a major topic of investigation in neuroscience. Traditionally, reports of conscious intention have been compared to various features of the readiness-potential (RP) – an electrophysiological signal that appears before voluntary movements. Experiments, however, tend to study intentions in immediate relation to movements (proximal intentions), thus ignoring other aspects of intentions such as planning or deciding in advance of movement (distal intentions). The current study examines the difference in electrophysiological activity between proximal intention and distal intention, using electroencephalography (EEG). Participants had to form an intention to move and then wait 2.5 sec before performing the actual movement. In this way, the electrophysiological activity related to forming a conscious intention was separated from any confounding activity related to automated motor activity. This was compared to conditions in which participants had to act as soon as they had the intention and a condition where participants acted upon an external cue 2.5 sec prior to movement. We examined the RP for the three conditions. No difference was found in early RP, but late RP differed significantly depending on the type of intention. In addition, we analysed signals during a longer time-interval starting before the time of distal intention formation until after the actual movement concluded. Results showed a slow negative electrophysiological “intention potential” above the mid-frontal areas at the time participants formed a distal intention. This potential was only found when the distal intention was self-paced and not when the intention was formed in response to an external cue. On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Ivan <iv...@em...> wrote: > > > Begin forwarded message: > > Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2013 15:45:51 +0200 > From: Ivan <das...@gm...> > To: ope...@li... > Subject: Re: [Openeeg-list] Status EEG problems/techniques? > > > > http://www.google.ee/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&ved=0CEoQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Frecpat-bci.googlecode.com%2Fsvn%2Fdocu%2FEEGreckon.pdf&ei=QvN4Up2qO8qJ4gTcoIDwDA&usg=AFQjCNFDYYTPd0UzK8wxkc0x4giVl14zBg&sig2=KsBAx-DGMoo6_qW6kGsmXA&bvm=bv.55980276,d.bGE > -Would be one such document on motor intention. Although they use more > channels than 2. > On Sun, 3 Nov 2013 11:29:59 -0800 > Makorihi <mak...@gm...> wrote: > > > Hey all, > > > > I have heard about EEG throughout my life and I find it to be extremely > > interesting and have a wide range of implications if the technology > > advances further, but I realize that I have no knowledge as to the > details > > of problems and hurdles people are facing in the field. I was hoping that > > someone on this list would have enough knowledge about this field to > answer > > some of my questions or at least send me in the right direction. > > > > For one, I know that both the hardware and software have their own > issues. > > Various different types of electrodes exist as well as different methods > of > > amplifying the signals in preparation for processing. I'm not as > interested > > in the hardware as I am in the 'software', or more accurately the methods > > used to transform these voltages from signal domain into other spaces > (such > > as inferring complex 'actions' or decoding sight). > > > > What I am really wondering is how far have we come in this respect? Of > > course there are well known products such as Emotiv, but I am more > > interested in tackling the problem and coming up with a better solution > > than just buying some premade device. An in order to do so, I feel like I > > need some background knowledge and need to know where we stand today. I > was > > hoping you guys could help me out with that! > > > > Just as a start, are there any papers in temporal correlation of > different > > regions of the brain with respect to intention to action? The closest > thing > > I have found to that is 'Detection of self-paced reaching movement > > intention from EEG signals' by Eileen Lew et all. ( > > http://infoscience.epfl.ch/record/178379/files/LewChSiMi12.pdf) But > sadly, > > they did not tackle the particular thing I am interested in. > > > > Best Regards, > > Jay > > > -- > Ivan <das...@gm...> > > > -- > Ivan <iv...@em...> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > November Webinars for C, C++, Fortran Developers > Accelerate application performance with scalable programming models. > Explore > techniques for threading, error checking, porting, and tuning. Get the most > from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and > register > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60136231&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > Openeeg-list mailing list > Ope...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/openeeg-list > Go to the above address to change your > subscription options, e.g unsubscribe. > |
From: Makorihi <mak...@gm...> - 2013-11-07 00:23:12
|
Hey all, Thanks for the input! In regard to Mu Waves, I found this really nice review paper on the subject that was pretty eye-opening. 'The Functional Significance of Mu Rhythms: Translating “seeing” and “hearing” into “doing” Jaime A. Pineda, Ph.D. ' ( http://qeegsupport.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/MEGAhandout/PINEDAmu_review4.pdf ) Best Regards, Jay On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 11:48 AM, Peter Kollarik <pet...@gm...>wrote: > Mikkel C. Vinding, Mads Jensen, Morten Overgaard, Distinct electrophysiological potentials for intention in action and prior intention for action, Cortex, Available online 19 September 2013, ISSN 0010-9452, http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.cortex.2013.09.001. > (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0010945213002347) > Abstract: Abstract > The role of conscious intention in relation to motoric movements has become a major topic of investigation in neuroscience. Traditionally, reports of conscious intention have been compared to various features of the readiness-potential (RP) – an electrophysiological signal that appears before voluntary movements. Experiments, however, tend to study intentions in immediate relation to movements (proximal intentions), thus ignoring other aspects of intentions such as planning or deciding in advance of movement (distal intentions). The current study examines the difference in electrophysiological activity between proximal intention and distal intention, using electroencephalography (EEG). Participants had to form an intention to move and then wait 2.5 sec before performing the actual movement. In this way, the electrophysiological activity related to forming a conscious intention was separated from any confounding activity related to automated motor activity. This was compared to conditions in which participants had to act as soon as they had the intention and a condition where participants acted upon an external cue 2.5 sec prior to movement. We examined the RP for the three conditions. No difference was found in early RP, but late RP differed significantly depending on the type of intention. In addition, we analysed signals during a longer time-interval starting before the time of distal intention formation until after the actual movement concluded. Results showed a slow negative electrophysiological “intention potential” above the mid-frontal areas at the time participants formed a distal intention. This potential was only found when the distal intention was self-paced and not when the intention was formed in response to an external cue. > > > > On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Ivan <iv...@em...> wrote: > >> >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >> Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2013 15:45:51 +0200 >> From: Ivan <das...@gm...> >> To: ope...@li... >> Subject: Re: [Openeeg-list] Status EEG problems/techniques? >> >> >> >> http://www.google.ee/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&ved=0CEoQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Frecpat-bci.googlecode.com%2Fsvn%2Fdocu%2FEEGreckon.pdf&ei=QvN4Up2qO8qJ4gTcoIDwDA&usg=AFQjCNFDYYTPd0UzK8wxkc0x4giVl14zBg&sig2=KsBAx-DGMoo6_qW6kGsmXA&bvm=bv.55980276,d.bGE >> -Would<http://www.google.ee/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&ved=0CEoQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Frecpat-bci.googlecode.com%2Fsvn%2Fdocu%2FEEGreckon.pdf&ei=QvN4Up2qO8qJ4gTcoIDwDA&usg=AFQjCNFDYYTPd0UzK8wxkc0x4giVl14zBg&sig2=KsBAx-DGMoo6_qW6kGsmXA&bvm=bv.55980276,d.bGE-Would>be one such document on motor intention. Although they use more channels >> than 2. >> On Sun, 3 Nov 2013 11:29:59 -0800 >> Makorihi <mak...@gm...> wrote: >> >> > Hey all, >> > >> > I have heard about EEG throughout my life and I find it to be extremely >> > interesting and have a wide range of implications if the technology >> > advances further, but I realize that I have no knowledge as to the >> details >> > of problems and hurdles people are facing in the field. I was hoping >> that >> > someone on this list would have enough knowledge about this field to >> answer >> > some of my questions or at least send me in the right direction. >> > >> > For one, I know that both the hardware and software have their own >> issues. >> > Various different types of electrodes exist as well as different >> methods of >> > amplifying the signals in preparation for processing. I'm not as >> interested >> > in the hardware as I am in the 'software', or more accurately the >> methods >> > used to transform these voltages from signal domain into other spaces >> (such >> > as inferring complex 'actions' or decoding sight). >> > >> > What I am really wondering is how far have we come in this respect? Of >> > course there are well known products such as Emotiv, but I am more >> > interested in tackling the problem and coming up with a better solution >> > than just buying some premade device. An in order to do so, I feel like >> I >> > need some background knowledge and need to know where we stand today. I >> was >> > hoping you guys could help me out with that! >> > >> > Just as a start, are there any papers in temporal correlation of >> different >> > regions of the brain with respect to intention to action? The closest >> thing >> > I have found to that is 'Detection of self-paced reaching movement >> > intention from EEG signals' by Eileen Lew et all. ( >> > http://infoscience.epfl.ch/record/178379/files/LewChSiMi12.pdf) But >> sadly, >> > they did not tackle the particular thing I am interested in. >> > >> > Best Regards, >> > Jay >> >> >> -- >> Ivan <das...@gm...> >> >> >> -- >> Ivan <iv...@em...> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> November Webinars for C, C++, Fortran Developers >> Accelerate application performance with scalable programming models. >> Explore >> techniques for threading, error checking, porting, and tuning. Get the >> most >> from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and >> register >> >> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60136231&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk >> _______________________________________________ >> Openeeg-list mailing list >> Ope...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/openeeg-list >> Go to the above address to change your >> subscription options, e.g unsubscribe. >> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > November Webinars for C, C++, Fortran Developers > Accelerate application performance with scalable programming models. > Explore > techniques for threading, error checking, porting, and tuning. Get the most > from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and > register > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60136231&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > Openeeg-list mailing list > Ope...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/openeeg-list > Go to the above address to change your > subscription options, e.g unsubscribe. > > |