TML 0.3 pre5 Testing

2005-03-24
2013-03-26
  • TmL 0.3pre5 testing

    I'm trully amazed. When did you manage to apply so many features?
    And most incredible: how did you managed to add hirez+ (480x320) support? I'm totally blown away.

    I've made copule of clips and tested them on my T3.
    First general notes:

    * What are the bottom right 3 buttons good for? the most riht is full screen, but what others two?

    * On T3 (supposedly on T5 also)  on _landsape mode_ doesn't display a video, i.e there is simply black screen. I suppose this is

    because lanscape mode requires another program interference with hardware (saw it in MMplayer forum), anyway T3's and T5s landsapes

    are about 2x times slower. So ther's no much sence in it anyway.
    If user wants full screen 480x320 video - he can pre-rotate his video. Or maybe you can add rotation inside the program in later versions.

    *What are the top numbers that constantly change?

    * Saw this quality feature in preferences, and set it to highest (is it ok?) supposing that 12mb heap of my t3 should suffice.

    * It's a pity there isn't any benchmark mode. So i cannot check the speed, and compare it with diff version. I can only see approximately if it is too slow/fast.

    * Hirez+ (480x320) indeed works on T3 - but i didn't see any notes about it in help file. For example, i can successfully play 320x448 video clip, and it's really is displayed on the almost whole screen area, only top numbers, and volume meter show on top, since there
    is no way to go to full screen(see next).

    * Full screen feature completely doesn't work on my T3 - No matter what configuration i try, any clip, both extended screen (320x480)

    and collapsed (regular 320x320). Either it just hands up when trying to press full screen button, or displays following error, and resets:
    [quote]main/ engine.c line 124 internal error[/quote]

    * I see no reason, no reason at all, why did you disable other 4cc's other than Xvid. Don't get me wron - i'm super Xvid fan, and use only it. But wouldn't it be unwise to just disalbe Divx4 and divx5 support out of notheing?. I encoded 320x144 clip with Divx 4.12, and another with Divx 5.05(i think) and trying to play them lead to "invalid 4CC message" and reset. But when i simply changed the 4cc on the same clips to xvid with 4cc changer (w/o altering clips) - TML played them as fine as Xvid. And as far as i remember - previous versions didn't have any problems with Divx4/5 either.
    So why?

    * Scroll bar is needed. When in playlist thre are more files to display on either 320x320 or 320x480 screen - there is no way reaching the files beyond the screen end. Hitting down button only changes the volume.

    * Ogg vorbis support is excellent. All my ogg files played fine, i didn't have any mp3 to test, but having read the read.me file i assume there's no support for audio mp3 files. Right?

    Now with the clip testing:

    First, i tested clips w/o any audio to check the video only

    resolution: ........320x140
    codec:..............XviD (v1.1)
    video data rate:....200kbit/sec
    fps:................24
    Audio...............NO
    B-frames:...........NO/1/2
    Adv. features:......NO
    Resutlts:
    Plays fine with either number of b-frames. visually the speed is correct, but only approximation, since no audio to sync with.

    resolution: ........160x96
    codec:..............XviD (v1.1)
    video data rate:....100kbit/sec
    fps:................24
    Audio...............NO
    B-frames:...........2
    Adv. features:......NO
    Resutlts:
    Automatically zooms at 2x to fill full screen. Very wise.
    But plays way too fast, probably 2x times faster.

    resolution: ........320x320
    codec:..............XviD (v1.1)
    video data rate:....200kbit/sec
    fps:................24
    Audio...............NO
    B-frames:...........2
    Adv. features:......NO
    Resutlts:
    Plays fine, indeed covers full screen, but seems a little bit slower than supposed to, probably some 20 fps instead 24.

    resolution: ........80x48
    codec:..............XviD (v1.1)
    video data rate:....50kbit/sec
    fps:................24
    Audio...............NO
    B-frames:...........2
    Adv. features:......NO
    Resutlts:
    Didn't play and immediately hung on w/o eny error, requireing reset. Strange , i would suppose small resolutions to work better than large.

    resolution: ........320x416
    codec:..............XviD (v1.1)
    video data rate:....200kbit/sec
    fps:................24
    Audio...............NO
    B-frames:...........2
    Adv. features:......NO
    Results:
    Trully displays full picture, and uses hires+, but very slow, probably  up to 8fps. No problems thogh. Trying to launch this clip in collapsed mode (320x320) - result in immediate reset, which is more or less logical, on non-hirez+ screen there is no place for such resolution

    resolution: ........480x320
    codec:..............XviD (v1.1)
    video data rate:....200kbit/sec
    fps:................24
    Audio...............NO
    B-frames:...........2
    Adv. features:......NO
    Results:
    Trying to open larger 480x320 clip resulted to some distortion : clip looks interlaced, and repeating itself on the second half of the screen. Also very slow. But didn't crash and played till the end.

    Audio

    With audio things much worse.
    I didn't succeed to open any video file containing audio.
    I tried: uncompressed audio 11khz, 22khz Mp3 128kbps_44khz_stereo/48kb_44khz_mono/32_22_mono/24_22_mono/20_11_mono
    I tried many variotion with different resolutions of video.
    No matter what i do - either player crashes, hangs immediately, or starts to play the movie ( i can hear music and see the video for couple of seconds) and then stops and hangs.

    Anyway:
    Excellent work guys. Continue this way.
    I will post the link on the forum, so people with other devices could test.
    If you want me to test something specific - let me know.

     
    • Nicholas Hardy
      Nicholas Hardy
      2005-03-25

      TmL 0.3pre5 testing
       
      > I'm trully amazed. When did you manage to apply so many features?
      Remember it has been a while since our last release.  If you look at the release changelog you'll when we've been doing the work.

      > And most incredible: how did you managed to add hirez+ (480x320) support? I'm totally blown away.
      I don't know much about that, that was donald.  I think he used the PalmResize library.

      > What are the bottom right 3 buttons good for? the most riht is full screen, but what others two?
      They're currently just for audio playback (although I imagine they could work just as well for video). Buttons: Random, Loop, Full Screen.
       
      > On T3 (supposedly on T5 also) on _landsape mode_ doesn't display a video, i.e there is simply black screen. I suppose this is because lanscape mode requires another program interference with hardware (saw it in MMplayer forum), anyway T3's and T5s landsapes are about 2x times slower. So ther's no much sence in it anyway.  If user wants full screen 480x320 video - he can pre-rotate his video. Or maybe you can add rotation inside the program in later versions.
      Yep, rotation is something I've got in mind to add sometime.  We'll see if we then experience the same problem with Magnus which he seemed to think had something to do with CPU caching I think.
       
      > What are the top numbers that constantly change?
      1) Ticks (1/100 seconds) taken to decode current video frame
      2) Ticks taken to draw video frame to screen
      3) Ticks taken decoding audio (during current engine tick)
      4) Total ticks taken during current engine tick
      5) Possible framerate acheiveable given (4)
      6) Framerate specified in video file
      Note: an engine tick involves: decoding+displaying one video frame, and refilling the audio buffer
       
      > Saw this quality feature in preferences, and set it to highest (is it ok?) supposing that 12mb heap of my t3 should suffice.
      That should be fine on T3. Only needed on lesser palms. 
       
      > It's a pity there isn't any benchmark mode. So i cannot check the speed, and compare it with diff version. I can only see approximately if it is too slow/fast.
      There's the numbers up the top, which can give some indication. You could also time in with a stopwatch, or play on PC at same time.  What sort of benchmark would you like?
       
      > Full screen feature completely doesn't work on my T3 - No matter what configuration i try, any clip, both extended screen (320x480) and collapsed (regular 320x320). Either it just hands up when trying to press full screen button, or displays following error, and resets: [quote]main/ engine.c line 124 internal error[/quote]
      Based on that error, it looks like that's a bug that occurs for files with no sound, haven't tested them much recently - that one should be a fairly easy fix.
       
      > I see no reason, no reason at all, why did you disable other 4cc's other than Xvid. Don't get me wron - i'm super Xvid fan, and use only it. But wouldn't it be unwise to just disalbe Divx4 and divx5 support out of notheing?. I encoded 320x144 clip with Divx 4.12, and another with Divx 5.05(i think) and trying to play them lead to "invalid 4CC message" and reset. But when i simply changed the 4cc on the same clips to xvid with 4cc changer (w/o altering clips) - TML played them as fine as Xvid. And as far as i remember - previous versions didn't have any problems with Divx4/5 either. So why?
      There's already a bug for this created.  I (or any other coder) just needs to take a complete list of xvid supported/all mpeg4 4CCs and detect codecs against that list.
      http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1158699&group_id=126700&atid=706608
       
       
      > Scroll bar is needed. When in playlist thre are more files to display on either 320x320 or 320x480 screen - there is no way reaching the files beyond the screen end. Hitting down button only changes the volume.
      It's pretty non-obvious, but you can just drag the stylus down the screen in a clear area.
       
      > Ogg vorbis support is excellent. All my ogg files played fine, i didn't have any mp3 to test, but having read the read.me file i assume there's no support for audio mp3 files. Right?
      Umm...there's no guarantee that our documentation is at all up-to-date.  Mp3 files are supported now, and are working well.
      I think donald's still got some bugs in the ogg support - but that might just be the strange files he's testing with.

      With your tests: could you please retry more of those without any B-frames.  There's an outstanding bug for B-frames http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1168277&group_id=126700&atid=706608 which may be causing some of the problems you've experienced.  Also I haven't tested avi's with no sound much recently so some of the bugs may be coming from there - there's different sets of code dealing with each case.  Maybe if you stop using b-frames, the sound-related crashed will go away?  Also I think MP3 support in videos may still be a bit unstable - I know that pause/seek/full-screen will not work right.

      In terms of many of the problems you've mentioned, could you please raise Bugs on them in the bug tracker?  Include reasonably detailed descriptions where possible.  Best if you post them, since you're experiencing the problem directly. 
      Also feel free to post things in the feature request section.

       
    • [quote]
      1) Ticks (1/100 seconds) taken to decode current video frame
      2) Ticks taken to draw video frame to screen
      3) Ticks taken decoding audio (during current engine tick)
      4) Total ticks taken during current engine tick
      5) Possible framerate acheiveable given (4)
      6) Framerate specified in video file [/quote]
      Can you explain more how it works?
      I still don't get it. For example, for most clips 1st number is between 1 and 2 , second number mostly 00 (rearely 1), third is always 0 (rarely 1). 4th changes between 1 and 2(rarely 3).   5th  number changes from 50 to 100 for smaller clips , and from 33 to 50 for larger clips.
      Only last number makes sence to me - it really shows the current fps of the video.

      [quote]There's the numbers up the top, which can give some indication. You could also time in with a stopwatch, or play on PC at same time. What sort of benchmark would you like? [/quote]

      5th number shows possibme maximum fps for this clip? right? then why it is always on of the pre-defined values: 25/33/50/100?  if i want to test speed - i would want to play it as fast a It can, w/o skipping frames (and w/o audio)

      [quote]Based on that error, it looks like that's a bug that occurs for files with no sound, haven't tested them much recently - that one should be a fairly easy fix. [/quote]

      Yes, that's right, on many files with video i did mange to switch to full screen mode.

      [quote]It's pretty non-obvious, but you can just drag the stylus down the screen in a clear area. [/quote]

      Git it.

      [quote]Umm...there's no guarantee that our documentation is at all up-to-date. Mp3 files are supported now, and are working well.
      I think donald's still got some bugs in the ogg support - but that might just be the strange files he's testing with. [/quote]

      Very good. Will test Mp3's soon (cbr/vbr/abr) and will report back.

      [quote]With your tests: could you please retry more of those without any B-frames. There's an outstanding bug for B-frames http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1168277&group_id=126700&atid=706608 which may be causing some of the problems you've experienced. Also I haven't tested avi's with no sound much recently so some of the bugs may be coming from there - there's different sets of code dealing with each case. Maybe if you stop using b-frames, the sound-related crashed will go away? Also I think MP3 support in videos may still be a bit unstable - I know that pause/seek/full-screen will not work right. [/quote]

      Yes, it seems w/o b-frames audio works much better ( not error free though)
      Very strange. Becase  video-only clips with b-frames play just fine w/o problems.

      [quote]In terms of many of the problems you've mentioned, could you please raise Bugs on them in the bug tracker? Include reasonably detailed descriptions where possible. Best if you post them, since you're experiencing the problem directly. 
      Also feel free to post things in the feature request section.

      [/quote]
      Ok, i'm on it.

       
      • Nicholas Hardy
        Nicholas Hardy
        2005-03-25

        [quote]Can you explain more how it works?
        I still don't get it. For example, for most clips 1st number is between 1 and 2 , second number mostly 00 (rarely 1), third is always 0 (rarely 1). 4th changes between 1 and 2(rarely 3). 5th number changes from 50 to 100 for smaller clips , and from 33 to 50 for larger clips. 
        Only last number makes sense to me - it really shows the current fps of the video. [/quote]

        The problem is that your palm is just too fast.  On my tungsten E I get useful numbers like '10 1 1 15 6 8'. 

        For the 5th number, it only shows information based on the time measurement which is in hundredths of seconds (in number 4) and can only use that resolution in determing the maximum framerate.  In short 'num5 = 100 / num4'.
         
        [quote]if i want to test speed - i would want to play it as fast a It can, w/o skipping frames (and w/o audio).[/quote]

        Ok, I'll look at adding that sometime.

        [quote]Yes, it seems w/o b-frames audio works much better (not error free though).   Very strange. Because video-only clips with b-frames play just fine w/o problems.  [/quote]

        As I mentioned before there's some different sync algorithms.  The audio-less sync is just a predecessor to the newer sync (which syncs directly onto the audio position), and hasn't been looked at since the newer one was introduced.  Maybe the current version of the audio-less sync is not dropping any frames or something so there's never an invalid b-frame.  Hopefully the next release will improve things.

         
    • Ok, i think i;m guettings it.
      I loaded up a huge 320x432 file, which plays slower than it should. 4th number is from 5 to 7. and 5th is 14-20,  6th is 23.
      Does this mean that maximum that my palm can do with this file is 14-20fps?
      Does 5-7 tichks is equivalent to 100% cpu usage.
      I still don't know how to translate them to % cpu usage terms. < hope i'm not too tedious> :-)
      Keep up excellent work.

       
      • Nicholas Hardy
        Nicholas Hardy
        2005-03-26

        Sorry, the measurements being shown aren't really what you're looking for your purposes.  When I first put them in I was more interested on the first 3 numbers (time breakdowns) and the other stuff was mostly an afterthought.

        You can't directly translate them to % cpu terms, but we can use them to get an indication of how things are going.  When the 5th number is less than the 6th number that is generally bad and is saying that yes, your palm can't keep up.  In this case then the CPU should be at full 100% utilisation (assuming no bugs in the delay code). 

        The 5th number is only based on the time taken for the current (1) frame and even if that drops below the 6th number on some frames, it may be higher on others, allowing the player to meet the target by averaging decoding times over several frames.  The version you've got doesn't really do that at the moment, but I'm working on changes in that area at the moment, and may make a new release in the next few days.

        Out of interest, how does MMPlayer do on this movie?  There's probably a bunch more optimisations I can make, but I'd like to know how we're going.

         
    • Thanks very much for explanation.
      Keep up excellent work.
      Can't wait for next release to test.

      [quote]Out of interest, how does MMPlayer do on this movie? There's probably a bunch more optimisations I can make, but I'd like to know how we're going.
      [/quote]
      With this partucular 320x432 movie  ( 2- bframes, no audio)
      mmplayer does quite well :-(
      In benchmark mode it  gets 34fps ( out of 24 default)
      So roughly saying, mm decodes this particular file about 2 times faster.
      320x144 clip, which TML decodes w/o problem and have some spare cpu time i guess  - MM benchmarks on 95 fps w/o sound, and 80.1 with sound.