Re: [ jEdit-users ] Opening up jEdit development

[Michael C. <chi...@mi...>]

Hmmm... guess I'm not that sophisticated a Firefox user either... I didn'=
t know=20
Firefox plugins worked that way.  The only Firefox plugins/extensions I'v=
e ever=20
used are mouse gestures and the skins, neither of which modify menus (afa=
ik).=20
If I did install a plugin like that, I may be confused, or I may not... b=
ut I=20
think I'd probably be hunting around for where it decided to stick its me=
nu=20
items.  In jEdit, when I add a plugin, I always go eagerly to the plugins=
 menu=20
to see what new goodies it added for me :)  Because that's how its always=
=20
worked, and is easy to remember.  I wouldn't go to the File menu to find =
an FTP=20
plugin.  Maybe File menu wouldn't make sense to me anyway.  Maybe if I di=
dn't=20
know where else to look, I'd have chosen the "Utilities" menu first.  At =
least=20
we can all agree on one thing--it's a plugin!

I think there's a fundamental difference between how tech-heads and=20
non-tech-heads think.  I *want* some technical details to show through.  =
E.g. I=20
hate IE's dumbed down browser error messages.  Give me an HTTP error code=
!  Just=20
tell me the stupid nameserver lookup failed so I know I made a typo!  But=
 others=20
probably are more confused and intimidated by such things.  Windows is ju=
st=20
alienating me more and more... sigh.  But I digress.

I guess the general point is that some technical stuff being reflected in=
 a UI=20
may not be such a bad thing, if the audience is more technical.  If the g=
oal is=20
to broaden the audience to the more mainstream kind of user, then perhaps=
 more=20
hiding and glossing is in order.

Anyway, I don't wanna start a religious war... and whichever way it goes,=
 I'll=20
give it a try. :)

Andy

Robert William Vesterman wrote:
> I disagree.  Witness Firefox, which allows its extensions to put menu i=
tems
> anywhere.  Is any user of Firefox seriously confused by this? I'm not.
>=20
> It's good, from a GUI point of view, to group functions by functionalit=
y,
> not by implementation.
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jed...@li...
> [mailto:jed...@li...]On Behalf Of mike
> nicholaides
> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 12:32 PM
> To: Michael Chisholm
> Cc: jed...@li...
> Subject: Re: [ jEdit-users ] Opening up jEdit development
>=20
>=20
> I agree.  The distinction between core functions and plugins is a
> little awkward at first, but it is necessary.  If the plugins'
> shortcuts were littered through the menus, new users wouldn't know
> which functions are from which plugins, which is important.
>=20
> On 7/26/05, Michael Chisholm <chi...@mi...> wrote:
>=20
>>Reinout van Schouwen wrote:
>>
>>>2005/7/24, Daniel Wunsch <the...@gm...>:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>most users simple don't care how a function is implemented -
>>>>they just know it's a text editing function and expect to find
>>>>a single menu for all of them, not 3 or more.
>>>>
>>>>a solution could be to put Actions regardless of their
>>>>implementation into some standard categories and then
>>>>build the menus by category.
>>>
>>>
>>>I've been advocating a similar solution for ages :) Currently the
>>>location of a plugin in the Plugins menu will change based on which
>>>plugins are installed -completely counter-intuitive.
>>>
>>>Plugins that fit in one of the standard menus should go there, and
>>>ones that don't should be sorted by category instead of
>>>alphabetically.
>>>
>>>regards,
>>
>>Well at least plugins are in the Plugins menu.  If they were scattered =
all
>=20
> over
>=20
>>different menus, that could get confusing to me.  I'm afraid it would b=
e
>=20
> hard to
>=20
>>remember what's a plugin and what's not.  When you use a different jEdi=
t
>=20
> install
>=20
>>on a different computer, some stuff you thought was builtin turns out n=
ot
>=20
> to be,
>=20
>>and which plugin was that again??
>>
>>Personally, I would rather have them collected into one menu, and the
>=20
> order of
>=20
>>menu items in the menu isn't that big a deal to me.  I haven't had any
>=20
> problems
>=20
>>finding what I need.  A conceptual separation between "core" and "plugi=
n",
>=20
> which
>=20
>>is straightforwardly reflected in the GUI, seems very natural to me.  B=
ut
>=20
> maybe
>=20
>>I just use unusually few plugins (~ 6 or 7)...
>>
>>Just my 2c.
>>
>>Andy
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>=20
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>=20
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