Do we need IMAP?

Konstantin
2003-07-16
2004-07-01
  • Konstantin
    Konstantin
    2003-07-16

    Forgive me, but is really IMAP support necessary? If one wants to edit messages on server, he could always use HTML interface. Sure, having same access with no ads is nice, but MS only allows 2MB disk space on server, so this isn't much useful anyway, unless you periodically download messages and store them locally - which is exactly what hotwayd good for.

    What *would* be nice is an ability to download messages from other folders - this will allow for server-side filtering before download. And I suspect it is much easier than full-blown IMAP implementation.

     
    • > Forgive me, but is really IMAP support necessary?

      First, let me say that I am looking forward to IMAP, as then maybe I can _completely_ dump OE for Thunderbird.

      > If
      > one wants to edit messages on server, he could
      > always use HTML interface.

      If I wanted to use the Web interface, why bother with hotwayd?

      OK, I'd still use it for archiving emails to my computer... but my point is that I want to move as far away from the web interface as possible.

      > Sure, having same
      > access with no ads is nice, but MS only allows 2MB
      > disk space on server, so this isn't much useful
      > anyway, unless you periodically download messages
      > and store them locally - which is exactly what
      > hotwayd good for.

      MSN ISP accounts, as well as 'extra storage' accounts, get up to 10M.  Plenty of space to leave messages in certain folders on the server.

      > What *would* be nice is an ability to download
      > messages from other folders - this will allow for
      > server-side filtering before download. And I suspect
      > it is much easier than full-blown IMAP
      > implementation.

      I don't follow the 'server-side' filtering comment.  Nothing in IMAP prevents the server from filtering before you access the messages.

      As for being easier...probably so.  Just change the hotwayd code to point to another folder instead of Inbox.

      However, how would you tell hotwayd which folder to download?  Run a separate hotwayd on several ports, each pointing to a different hotmail folder?  In that case, your email client would need a separate account _per hotmail folder_.

      I suppose hotwayd could iterate over all the hotmail folders, and then append an X-Hotmail-Folder: header with the folder name on it so your client can sort on that...  Of course, that would make the 'delete messages on server when they are...moved from Inbox' setting in Thunderbird pretty much useless.

      Regards,
      David

       
      • R.J.V. Bertin
        R.J.V. Bertin
        2003-07-17

        > I don't follow the 'server-side' filtering comment.
        > Nothing
        > in IMAP prevents the server from filtering before you
        > access the messages.

          I think the point was that IMAP would allow you to benefit from, say, the strong spam filtering, and then get your spam from the Junk Email folder, without having to do the filtering yourself... :)

        > As for being easier...probably so. Just change the
        > hotwayd code to point to another folder instead of
        > Inbox.

          It would of course also be possible to not fully implement the imap protocol. There are things in imap like having the server do searches that probably won't make a lot of sense with hotmail... There are many clients that do not support all features. And the protocol itself has a 'capabilities' function, that allows a client to query the server for what it can/will do.

        I have been toying once with the idea of changing the username format expected by hotwayd to include a folder specification. That too would of course require as many 'accounts' as you have folders that you're interested in.
        Cycling is nice, though, and maybe even not very complicated to implement (provided we can easily get a list of folders, which I think, we can just add an additional 'outer' loop). The deleting issue *may* possibly be solved by adding a folder identifier to the UIDL -- or is the UIDL something that we can't play around with?

        Anyway, as I have mentioned before, I for myself am less interested in investing much time in either imap or other forms of folders support, now that I discovered fastmail. If you pay $15 once in your life, they give you 16Mb, secure imap access and a secure smtp server.

         
    • I for one, I'm looking forward to the IMAP implementation. I'm thinking of my friends who are locked-in. It will be easier for them to transfert away from hotmail if they can first test hotwayd out in a non-destructive way.

       
      • Ismael Juma
        Ismael Juma
        2004-02-07

        I agree....

        I wonder how the work on the IMAP implementation is going....;)

         
        • David Smith
          David Smith
          2004-02-08

          It's getting there :-) IMAP is qutie a complex protocol though so there are some issues which I wasn't expecting when I started.. I've done most of the implementation - at the moment it can login, list the folders, open any folder, download any non-MIME messages, mark as read, delete, close a folder, expunge, logout.. I'm in the middle of implementing FETCH BODYSTRUCTURE which is a little bit tricky as it basically returns all the structure of the message. Once I've done that though it should be possible to use mozilla mail atleast via IMAP. I've tested mozilla mail on the code so far and it works fine for all but MIME messages (for which it decides to do a FETCH BODYSTRUCTURE and of course fails because it's not implemented).

          So in summary - soon :-)

           
          • Ismael Juma
            Ismael Juma
            2004-02-08

            That's good to hear. Keep up the great work and good luck. :)

             
    • I posted to the other forum already, but this is probably the best place to have posted the message.  I see no updates on the web page and am wondering how IMAP support is coming.  I didn't realize how difficult it was to implement relative to POP- in the past i wondered why anyone would use POP with IMAP around.  Anyway, i for one do not use POP at all, but have lots of Hotmail accounts and want to ditch OE and W2K for good... IMAP access to hotmail is one of the two main reasons i can't.

      So... any progress?  How's it coming?  Keep up the good work!

       
    • Bill Kearney
      Bill Kearney
      2004-07-01

      I use fetchmail to pull them from hotwayd into a local imap server.  One folder for each remote hotmail folder needed.  Works great.