From: Neil M. <ne...@gu...> - 2011-03-24 17:23:44
|
Hi Everyone, I've been working on a new factory Angstrom image for Overo for the past couple of weeks. The following changes have been made: * Kernel version 2.6.36 * Added task-native-sdk to omap3-desktop-image * ipk repositories changed to cumulus.gumstix.org (debug packages now available) * bug fixes I think that all of the major wrinkles have been ironed out but the only way to be sure is lots of testing. Anyone wanting a test drive should look here: http://cumulus.gumstix.org/images/angstrom/developer/2011-03-22-1537/ If you want to report a problem or success story, you can contact me directly - remember to include the image, COM, and expansion(s) you are using. Enjoy! -- Neil |
From: Koen K. <ko...@do...> - 2011-03-25 14:40:18
|
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 24-03-11 18:23, Neil MacMunn wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > I've been working on a new factory Angstrom image for Overo for the past > couple of weeks. The following changes have been made: > > * Kernel version 2.6.36 > * Added task-native-sdk to omap3-desktop-image > * ipk repositories changed to cumulus.gumstix.org (debug packages now > available) > * bug fixes What's the plan for upstreaming those changes to angstrom proper? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) iD8DBQFNjKg2MkyGM64RGpERAvdvAJ9XmDrux2fHCUjO5E73dEzrumbb2gCfUmmc XE32BdM835C2XKEGPGf+1zM= =PTSB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
From: Neil M. <ne...@gu...> - 2011-03-25 22:24:16
|
On 11-03-25 07:35 AM, Koen Kooi wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 24-03-11 18:23, Neil MacMunn wrote: >> Hi Everyone, >> >> I've been working on a new factory Angstrom image for Overo for the past >> couple of weeks. The following changes have been made: >> >> * Kernel version 2.6.36 >> * Added task-native-sdk to omap3-desktop-image >> * ipk repositories changed to cumulus.gumstix.org (debug packages now >> available) >> * bug fixes > > What's the plan for upstreaming those changes to angstrom proper? I don't intend to push them upstream. These images have been customized to address the needs of Gumstix users and ensure their stability on Overo COMs. -- Neil > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) > > iD8DBQFNjKg2MkyGM64RGpERAvdvAJ9XmDrux2fHCUjO5E73dEzrumbb2gCfUmmc > XE32BdM835C2XKEGPGf+1zM= > =PTSB > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Enable your software for Intel(R) Active Management Technology to meet the > growing manageability and security demands of your customers. Businesses > are taking advantage of Intel(R) vPro (TM) technology - will your software > be a part of the solution? Download the Intel(R) Manageability Checker > today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devmar > _______________________________________________ > gumstix-users mailing list > gum...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gumstix-users |
From: Neil M. <ne...@gu...> - 2011-03-28 16:50:30
|
Koen, Let me clarify: Recipe changes that I make in the gumstix-oe repository are meant to be a convenience for gumstix users. This allows them to get a working build environment set up as fast as possible. I don't think these are suitable for merging into the upstream. If there is a better way for me to achieve this, improve Gumstix support, and contribute upstream I'm happy to comply. As for bug fixes, I typically report problems - and any solution I find - to upstream developers so they can choose the appropriate corrective action. If you have any suggestions to improve this process, please share them here. Let's keep things civil though :) -- Neil |
From: Neil M. <ne...@gu...> - 2011-04-07 22:41:06
|
Hi Kevyn, The Overo branch is intended to provide a quick path to a working build enviroment for Gumstix users. We are currently evaluating whether Gumstix support in OE has matured enough to render a separate branch unnecessary. Any feedback is welcome - our goal is to support this community as best we can. Next week I'll be able to offer a better idea of our OE integration plans. Thanks for your continued support. -- Neil On 11-04-07 08:39 AM, Kevyn-Alexandre Paré wrote: > Neil, > > Just to understand the changes / your process of dev > > You branch from org.openembedded.dev to overo > > You stabilize the code in overo branch. > What kind of test do you have to determine that you determine it stable? > Do you have a check list or something? > > Then what do you push upstream and not, and why not?? > > I understand Koen frustration and I'm trying to understand why gumstix > code is not sync with dev? > > Best regards, > > Kevyn-Alexandre Paré > > > On Mon, 2011-03-28 at 09:49 -0700, Neil MacMunn wrote: >> Koen, >> >> Let me clarify: >> Recipe changes that I make in the gumstix-oe repository are meant to be >> a convenience for gumstix users. This allows them to get a working build >> environment set up as fast as possible. I don't think these are suitable >> for merging into the upstream. If there is a better way for me to >> achieve this, improve Gumstix support, and contribute upstream I'm happy >> to comply. >> >> As for bug fixes, I typically report problems - and any solution I find >> - to upstream developers so they can choose the appropriate corrective >> action. >> >> If you have any suggestions to improve this process, please share them >> here. Let's keep things civil though :) >> >> -- >> Neil >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Create and publish websites with WebMatrix >> Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; >> WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish >> your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf >> _______________________________________________ >> gumstix-users mailing list >> gum...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gumstix-users > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Xperia(TM) PLAY > It's a major breakthrough. An authentic gaming > smartphone on the nation's most reliable network. > And it wants your games. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-sfdev > _______________________________________________ > gumstix-users mailing list > gum...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gumstix-users |
From: Andrew K. <tr...@tr...> - 2011-04-08 18:53:01
|
I'd honestly like to see gumstix concentrate solely on QA issues with the kernel, uboot, x-load and documentation. Ubuntu and others provide stable and mature arm environments which work nearly flawlessly with the Gumstix. Andrew On 4/8/2011 2:10 PM, Kevyn-Alexandre Paré wrote: > Hi Neil, > > "We are currently evaluating whether Gumstix support in OE has matured > enough to render a separate branch unnecessary." > > So what could be the possible conclusion of this: > > 1- Keep the overo branch > 2- Work directly in the org.openembedded.dev (Maturity will increase > with the number of review) > > What I understand of the process of open embedded is that they develop > in org.openembedded.dev and they have stable branch (stable/2009) where > the overo stable branch could go, when stable. > > So what are the main reason of not following there process? Or improving > it? > > Just to conclude I will add some interesting reason why going upstream > will benefit for Gumstix & OE: > > https://lkml.org/lkml/2011/4/1/50 > > Here little summary: > > Ingo Molnar -------------------- > > If companies do not 'bother to push upstream', then management will > eventually notice negative economic consequences: > > - Higher short-term production costs: upstream feedback/review/testing > improves the product, so the lack of upstream feedback/review/testing > increases the production costs of the product. > > - Higher long-term production costs: gradually slower SoC development > due to a morass of out-of-tree hacks that weren’t pushed upstream > causing gradually higher development costs. This means higher payroll > costs and longer time to market - in which time more flexible > competitors can beat you. > > - Brain drain: developers like to show their good work upstream as > well, not just in some ship-and-forget out-of-tree kernel. Good > developers will gravitate towards SoC companies that encourage them > to work upstream. No matter how good of a business idea a company has > if there's no good developers. > > - Less revenue: a product can not possibly be more appealing to SoC > customers if the upstream Linux kernel does not support it. As ARM > moves up the food chain towards more complex, higher profit margin > products longer term thinking gains foothold gradually. > > - Competitive disadvantages: most SoC competitors push their changes > upstream, so they get free development assistance, they get free > exposure, they get free PR and they get opportunities. Not pushing > upstream is a lost opportunity. > > All of these effects translate into real $$$$$$$ and affect the bottom > line very directly, both short and long term. These costs also increase > with time so they are not fixed. > > -- > Kevyn-Alexandre Paré > > > > On Thu, 2011-04-07 at 15:41 -0700, Neil MacMunn wrote: >> Hi Kevyn, >> >> The Overo branch is intended to provide a quick path to a working build >> enviroment for Gumstix users. We are currently evaluating whether >> Gumstix support in OE has matured enough to render a separate branch >> unnecessary. Any feedback is welcome - our goal is to support this >> community as best we can. Next week I'll be able to offer a better idea >> of our OE integration plans. >> >> Thanks for your continued support. >> >> -- >> Neil >> >> >> On 11-04-07 08:39 AM, Kevyn-Alexandre Paré wrote: >>> Neil, >>> >>> Just to understand the changes / your process of dev >>> >>> You branch from org.openembedded.dev to overo >>> >>> You stabilize the code in overo branch. >>> What kind of test do you have to determine that you determine it stable? >>> Do you have a check list or something? >>> >>> Then what do you push upstream and not, and why not?? >>> >>> I understand Koen frustration and I'm trying to understand why gumstix >>> code is not sync with dev? >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Kevyn-Alexandre Paré >>> >>> >>> On Mon, 2011-03-28 at 09:49 -0700, Neil MacMunn wrote: >>>> Koen, >>>> >>>> Let me clarify: >>>> Recipe changes that I make in the gumstix-oe repository are meant to be >>>> a convenience for gumstix users. This allows them to get a working build >>>> environment set up as fast as possible. I don't think these are suitable >>>> for merging into the upstream. If there is a better way for me to >>>> achieve this, improve Gumstix support, and contribute upstream I'm happy >>>> to comply. >>>> >>>> As for bug fixes, I typically report problems - and any solution I find >>>> - to upstream developers so they can choose the appropriate corrective >>>> action. >>>> >>>> If you have any suggestions to improve this process, please share them >>>> here. Let's keep things civil though :) >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Neil >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> Create and publish websites with WebMatrix >>>> Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; >>>> WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish >>>> your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> gumstix-users mailing list >>>> gum...@li... >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gumstix-users >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Xperia(TM) PLAY >>> It's a major breakthrough. An authentic gaming >>> smartphone on the nation's most reliable network. >>> And it wants your games. >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-sfdev >>> _______________________________________________ >>> gumstix-users mailing list >>> gum...@li... >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gumstix-users >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Xperia(TM) PLAY >> It's a major breakthrough. An authentic gaming >> smartphone on the nation's most reliable network. >> And it wants your games. >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-sfdev >> _______________________________________________ >> gumstix-users mailing list >> gum...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gumstix-users > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Xperia(TM) PLAY > It's a major breakthrough. An authentic gaming > smartphone on the nation's most reliable network. > And it wants your games. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-sfdev > _______________________________________________ > gumstix-users mailing list > gum...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gumstix-users |
From: Kevyn-Alexandre P. <ka...@ro...> - 2011-04-08 19:19:05
|
Andrew, On Fri, 2011-04-08 at 14:52 -0400, Andrew Kirch wrote: > I'd honestly like to see gumstix concentrate solely on QA issues with > the kernel, uboot, x-load and documentation. 100% with QA and this is the reason for a stable branch. But if you do not follow development at all your distribution will lack in support and QA in long run. Since the gumstix offer a environment for development and also for product oriented, a threshold between these 2 need to be set. > Ubuntu and others provide > stable and mature arm environments which work nearly flawlessly with the > Gumstix. These distribution doesn't correspond to the need of all. Ubuntu is far from being a embedded stack. It's a desktop distro. But yes in another case having Ubuntu run on the Gumstix is a really good advantage. I think that working with upstream will help to increase the QA of the stack since more review will be included and so more people. Working "solely" will isolate us from future changes. Look at the verdex that is stock at linux kernel 2.6.21 and async with community development. This product make it less interesting for company because it offer old deprecated technologies and will require a lot of man power to port it for current distro and or current dev. Best regards, Kevyn-Alexandre Paré > > Andrew > > On 4/8/2011 2:10 PM, Kevyn-Alexandre Paré wrote: > > Hi Neil, > > > > "We are currently evaluating whether Gumstix support in OE has matured > > enough to render a separate branch unnecessary." > > > > So what could be the possible conclusion of this: > > > > 1- Keep the overo branch > > 2- Work directly in the org.openembedded.dev (Maturity will increase > > with the number of review) > > > > What I understand of the process of open embedded is that they develop > > in org.openembedded.dev and they have stable branch (stable/2009) where > > the overo stable branch could go, when stable. > > > > So what are the main reason of not following there process? Or improving > > it? > > > > Just to conclude I will add some interesting reason why going upstream > > will benefit for Gumstix & OE: > > > > https://lkml.org/lkml/2011/4/1/50 > > > > Here little summary: > > > > Ingo Molnar -------------------- > > > > If companies do not 'bother to push upstream', then management will > > eventually notice negative economic consequences: > > > > - Higher short-term production costs: upstream feedback/review/testing > > improves the product, so the lack of upstream feedback/review/testing > > increases the production costs of the product. > > > > - Higher long-term production costs: gradually slower SoC development > > due to a morass of out-of-tree hacks that weren’t pushed upstream > > causing gradually higher development costs. This means higher payroll > > costs and longer time to market - in which time more flexible > > competitors can beat you. > > > > - Brain drain: developers like to show their good work upstream as > > well, not just in some ship-and-forget out-of-tree kernel. Good > > developers will gravitate towards SoC companies that encourage them > > to work upstream. No matter how good of a business idea a company has > > if there's no good developers. > > > > - Less revenue: a product can not possibly be more appealing to SoC > > customers if the upstream Linux kernel does not support it. As ARM > > moves up the food chain towards more complex, higher profit margin > > products longer term thinking gains foothold gradually. > > > > - Competitive disadvantages: most SoC competitors push their changes > > upstream, so they get free development assistance, they get free > > exposure, they get free PR and they get opportunities. Not pushing > > upstream is a lost opportunity. > > > > All of these effects translate into real $$$$$$$ and affect the bottom > > line very directly, both short and long term. These costs also increase > > with time so they are not fixed. > > > > -- > > Kevyn-Alexandre Paré > > > > > > > > On Thu, 2011-04-07 at 15:41 -0700, Neil MacMunn wrote: > >> Hi Kevyn, > >> > >> The Overo branch is intended to provide a quick path to a working build > >> enviroment for Gumstix users. We are currently evaluating whether > >> Gumstix support in OE has matured enough to render a separate branch > >> unnecessary. Any feedback is welcome - our goal is to support this > >> community as best we can. Next week I'll be able to offer a better idea > >> of our OE integration plans. > >> > >> Thanks for your continued support. > >> > >> -- > >> Neil > >> > >> > >> On 11-04-07 08:39 AM, Kevyn-Alexandre Paré wrote: > >>> Neil, > >>> > >>> Just to understand the changes / your process of dev > >>> > >>> You branch from org.openembedded.dev to overo > >>> > >>> You stabilize the code in overo branch. > >>> What kind of test do you have to determine that you determine it stable? > >>> Do you have a check list or something? > >>> > >>> Then what do you push upstream and not, and why not?? > >>> > >>> I understand Koen frustration and I'm trying to understand why gumstix > >>> code is not sync with dev? > >>> > >>> Best regards, > >>> > >>> Kevyn-Alexandre Paré > >>> > >>> > >>> On Mon, 2011-03-28 at 09:49 -0700, Neil MacMunn wrote: > >>>> Koen, > >>>> > >>>> Let me clarify: > >>>> Recipe changes that I make in the gumstix-oe repository are meant to be > >>>> a convenience for gumstix users. This allows them to get a working build > >>>> environment set up as fast as possible. I don't think these are suitable > >>>> for merging into the upstream. If there is a better way for me to > >>>> achieve this, improve Gumstix support, and contribute upstream I'm happy > >>>> to comply. > >>>> > >>>> As for bug fixes, I typically report problems - and any solution I find > >>>> - to upstream developers so they can choose the appropriate corrective > >>>> action. > >>>> > >>>> If you have any suggestions to improve this process, please share them > >>>> here. Let's keep things civil though :) > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Neil > >>>> > >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>> Create and publish websites with WebMatrix > >>>> Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; > >>>> WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish > >>>> your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> gumstix-users mailing list > >>>> gum...@li... > >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gumstix-users > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> Xperia(TM) PLAY > >>> It's a major breakthrough. An authentic gaming > >>> smartphone on the nation's most reliable network. > >>> And it wants your games. > >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-sfdev > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> gumstix-users mailing list > >>> gum...@li... > >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gumstix-users > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> Xperia(TM) PLAY > >> It's a major breakthrough. An authentic gaming > >> smartphone on the nation's most reliable network. > >> And it wants your games. > >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-sfdev > >> _______________________________________________ > >> gumstix-users mailing list > >> gum...@li... > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gumstix-users > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Xperia(TM) PLAY > > It's a major breakthrough. An authentic gaming > > smartphone on the nation's most reliable network. > > And it wants your games. > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-sfdev > > _______________________________________________ > > gumstix-users mailing list > > gum...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gumstix-users > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Xperia(TM) PLAY > It's a major breakthrough. An authentic gaming > smartphone on the nation's most reliable network. > And it wants your games. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-sfdev > _______________________________________________ > gumstix-users mailing list > gum...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gumstix-users |
From: Ash C. <as...@gu...> - 2011-04-08 19:07:04
|
Does Ubuntu/Linaro/Fedora... provide enough flexibility? The benefit of OE/Poky/Yocto..., in my mind, has been the ability to customize an installation from source to a developer can truly get only what they want in their system (and from the bleeding edge if they really want). That said, processors and memory are getting powerful enough that maybe this just doesn't matter any more. Thoughts? (I've wrestled with this one myself on numerous occasions. Pre-built, package-based systems are sufficient for my own development work >90% of the time) -Ash On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 11:52 AM, Andrew Kirch <tr...@tr...> wrote: > I'd honestly like to see gumstix concentrate solely on QA issues with > the kernel, uboot, x-load and documentation. Ubuntu and others provide > stable and mature arm environments which work nearly flawlessly with the > Gumstix. > > Andrew > > On 4/8/2011 2:10 PM, Kevyn-Alexandre Paré wrote: >> Hi Neil, >> >> "We are currently evaluating whether Gumstix support in OE has matured >> enough to render a separate branch unnecessary." >> >> So what could be the possible conclusion of this: >> >> 1- Keep the overo branch >> 2- Work directly in the org.openembedded.dev (Maturity will increase >> with the number of review) >> >> What I understand of the process of open embedded is that they develop >> in org.openembedded.dev and they have stable branch (stable/2009) where >> the overo stable branch could go, when stable. >> >> So what are the main reason of not following there process? Or improving >> it? >> >> Just to conclude I will add some interesting reason why going upstream >> will benefit for Gumstix & OE: >> >> https://lkml.org/lkml/2011/4/1/50 >> >> Here little summary: >> >> Ingo Molnar -------------------- >> >> If companies do not 'bother to push upstream', then management will >> eventually notice negative economic consequences: >> >> - Higher short-term production costs: upstream feedback/review/testing >> improves the product, so the lack of upstream feedback/review/testing >> increases the production costs of the product. >> >> - Higher long-term production costs: gradually slower SoC development >> due to a morass of out-of-tree hacks that weren’t pushed upstream >> causing gradually higher development costs. This means higher payroll >> costs and longer time to market - in which time more flexible >> competitors can beat you. >> >> - Brain drain: developers like to show their good work upstream as >> well, not just in some ship-and-forget out-of-tree kernel. Good >> developers will gravitate towards SoC companies that encourage them >> to work upstream. No matter how good of a business idea a company has >> if there's no good developers. >> >> - Less revenue: a product can not possibly be more appealing to SoC >> customers if the upstream Linux kernel does not support it. As ARM >> moves up the food chain towards more complex, higher profit margin >> products longer term thinking gains foothold gradually. >> >> - Competitive disadvantages: most SoC competitors push their changes >> upstream, so they get free development assistance, they get free >> exposure, they get free PR and they get opportunities. Not pushing >> upstream is a lost opportunity. >> >> All of these effects translate into real $$$$$$$ and affect the bottom >> line very directly, both short and long term. These costs also increase >> with time so they are not fixed. >> >> -- >> Kevyn-Alexandre Paré >> >> >> >> On Thu, 2011-04-07 at 15:41 -0700, Neil MacMunn wrote: >>> Hi Kevyn, >>> >>> The Overo branch is intended to provide a quick path to a working build >>> enviroment for Gumstix users. We are currently evaluating whether >>> Gumstix support in OE has matured enough to render a separate branch >>> unnecessary. Any feedback is welcome - our goal is to support this >>> community as best we can. Next week I'll be able to offer a better idea >>> of our OE integration plans. >>> >>> Thanks for your continued support. >>> >>> -- >>> Neil >>> >>> >>> On 11-04-07 08:39 AM, Kevyn-Alexandre Paré wrote: >>>> Neil, >>>> >>>> Just to understand the changes / your process of dev >>>> >>>> You branch from org.openembedded.dev to overo >>>> >>>> You stabilize the code in overo branch. >>>> What kind of test do you have to determine that you determine it stable? >>>> Do you have a check list or something? >>>> >>>> Then what do you push upstream and not, and why not?? >>>> >>>> I understand Koen frustration and I'm trying to understand why gumstix >>>> code is not sync with dev? >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> >>>> Kevyn-Alexandre Paré >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, 2011-03-28 at 09:49 -0700, Neil MacMunn wrote: >>>>> Koen, >>>>> >>>>> Let me clarify: >>>>> Recipe changes that I make in the gumstix-oe repository are meant to be >>>>> a convenience for gumstix users. This allows them to get a working build >>>>> environment set up as fast as possible. I don't think these are suitable >>>>> for merging into the upstream. If there is a better way for me to >>>>> achieve this, improve Gumstix support, and contribute upstream I'm happy >>>>> to comply. >>>>> >>>>> As for bug fixes, I typically report problems - and any solution I find >>>>> - to upstream developers so they can choose the appropriate corrective >>>>> action. >>>>> >>>>> If you have any suggestions to improve this process, please share them >>>>> here. Let's keep things civil though :) >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Neil >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> Create and publish websites with WebMatrix >>>>> Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; >>>>> WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish >>>>> your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> gumstix-users mailing list >>>>> gum...@li... >>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gumstix-users >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> Xperia(TM) PLAY >>>> It's a major breakthrough. An authentic gaming >>>> smartphone on the nation's most reliable network. >>>> And it wants your games. >>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-sfdev >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> gumstix-users mailing list >>>> gum...@li... >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gumstix-users >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Xperia(TM) PLAY >>> It's a major breakthrough. An authentic gaming >>> smartphone on the nation's most reliable network. >>> And it wants your games. >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-sfdev >>> _______________________________________________ >>> gumstix-users mailing list >>> gum...@li... >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gumstix-users >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Xperia(TM) PLAY >> It's a major breakthrough. An authentic gaming >> smartphone on the nation's most reliable network. >> And it wants your games. >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-sfdev >> _______________________________________________ >> gumstix-users mailing list >> gum...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gumstix-users > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Xperia(TM) PLAY > It's a major breakthrough. An authentic gaming > smartphone on the nation's most reliable network. > And it wants your games. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-sfdev > _______________________________________________ > gumstix-users mailing list > gum...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gumstix-users > |
From: Kevyn-Alexandre P. <ka...@ro...> - 2011-04-08 19:31:55
|
Ash, On Fri, 2011-04-08 at 12:06 -0700, Ash Charles wrote: > Does Ubuntu/Linaro/Fedora... provide enough flexibility? No far from being close. > The benefit > of OE/Poky/Yocto..., in my mind, has been the ability to customize an > installation from source to a developer can truly get only what they > want in their system (and from the bleeding edge if they really want). Yes > That said, processors and memory are getting powerful enough that > maybe this just doesn't matter any more. Not true, power management and size will always remain a issue. Since I'm a Canadian and electricity is cheap should I start using more power then I really need ;) > Thoughts? (I've wrestled > with this one myself on numerous occasions. Pre-built, package-based > systems are sufficient for my own development work >90% of the time) > Different environment will require different needs. For example military/mobile will ask product that consume low power and this will require customization. Medical devices will require to evaluate and test all or as must as possible the stack of software in the product. -- Kevyn-Alexandre Paré > -Ash > > On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 11:52 AM, Andrew Kirch <tr...@tr...> wrote: > > I'd honestly like to see gumstix concentrate solely on QA issues with > > the kernel, uboot, x-load and documentation. Ubuntu and others provide > > stable and mature arm environments which work nearly flawlessly with the > > Gumstix. > > > > Andrew > > > > On 4/8/2011 2:10 PM, Kevyn-Alexandre Paré wrote: > >> Hi Neil, > >> > >> "We are currently evaluating whether Gumstix support in OE has matured > >> enough to render a separate branch unnecessary." > >> > >> So what could be the possible conclusion of this: > >> > >> 1- Keep the overo branch > >> 2- Work directly in the org.openembedded.dev (Maturity will increase > >> with the number of review) > >> > >> What I understand of the process of open embedded is that they develop > >> in org.openembedded.dev and they have stable branch (stable/2009) where > >> the overo stable branch could go, when stable. > >> > >> So what are the main reason of not following there process? Or improving > >> it? > >> > >> Just to conclude I will add some interesting reason why going upstream > >> will benefit for Gumstix & OE: > >> > >> https://lkml.org/lkml/2011/4/1/50 > >> > >> Here little summary: > >> > >> Ingo Molnar -------------------- > >> > >> If companies do not 'bother to push upstream', then management will > >> eventually notice negative economic consequences: > >> > >> - Higher short-term production costs: upstream feedback/review/testing > >> improves the product, so the lack of upstream feedback/review/testing > >> increases the production costs of the product. > >> > >> - Higher long-term production costs: gradually slower SoC development > >> due to a morass of out-of-tree hacks that weren’t pushed upstream > >> causing gradually higher development costs. This means higher payroll > >> costs and longer time to market - in which time more flexible > >> competitors can beat you. > >> > >> - Brain drain: developers like to show their good work upstream as > >> well, not just in some ship-and-forget out-of-tree kernel. Good > >> developers will gravitate towards SoC companies that encourage them > >> to work upstream. No matter how good of a business idea a company has > >> if there's no good developers. > >> > >> - Less revenue: a product can not possibly be more appealing to SoC > >> customers if the upstream Linux kernel does not support it. As ARM > >> moves up the food chain towards more complex, higher profit margin > >> products longer term thinking gains foothold gradually. > >> > >> - Competitive disadvantages: most SoC competitors push their changes > >> upstream, so they get free development assistance, they get free > >> exposure, they get free PR and they get opportunities. Not pushing > >> upstream is a lost opportunity. > >> > >> All of these effects translate into real $$$$$$$ and affect the bottom > >> line very directly, both short and long term. These costs also increase > >> with time so they are not fixed. > >> > >> -- > >> Kevyn-Alexandre Paré > >> > >> > >> > >> On Thu, 2011-04-07 at 15:41 -0700, Neil MacMunn wrote: > >>> Hi Kevyn, > >>> > >>> The Overo branch is intended to provide a quick path to a working build > >>> enviroment for Gumstix users. We are currently evaluating whether > >>> Gumstix support in OE has matured enough to render a separate branch > >>> unnecessary. Any feedback is welcome - our goal is to support this > >>> community as best we can. Next week I'll be able to offer a better idea > >>> of our OE integration plans. > >>> > >>> Thanks for your continued support. > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Neil > >>> > >>> > >>> On 11-04-07 08:39 AM, Kevyn-Alexandre Paré wrote: > >>>> Neil, > >>>> > >>>> Just to understand the changes / your process of dev > >>>> > >>>> You branch from org.openembedded.dev to overo > >>>> > >>>> You stabilize the code in overo branch. > >>>> What kind of test do you have to determine that you determine it stable? > >>>> Do you have a check list or something? > >>>> > >>>> Then what do you push upstream and not, and why not?? > >>>> > >>>> I understand Koen frustration and I'm trying to understand why gumstix > >>>> code is not sync with dev? > >>>> > >>>> Best regards, > >>>> > >>>> Kevyn-Alexandre Paré > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Mon, 2011-03-28 at 09:49 -0700, Neil MacMunn wrote: > >>>>> Koen, > >>>>> > >>>>> Let me clarify: > >>>>> Recipe changes that I make in the gumstix-oe repository are meant to be > >>>>> a convenience for gumstix users. This allows them to get a working build > >>>>> environment set up as fast as possible. I don't think these are suitable > >>>>> for merging into the upstream. If there is a better way for me to > >>>>> achieve this, improve Gumstix support, and contribute upstream I'm happy > >>>>> to comply. > >>>>> > >>>>> As for bug fixes, I typically report problems - and any solution I find > >>>>> - to upstream developers so they can choose the appropriate corrective > >>>>> action. > >>>>> > >>>>> If you have any suggestions to improve this process, please share them > >>>>> here. Let's keep things civil though :) > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Neil > >>>>> > >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>>> Create and publish websites with WebMatrix > >>>>> Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; > >>>>> WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish > >>>>> your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> gumstix-users mailing list > >>>>> gum...@li... > >>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gumstix-users > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>> Xperia(TM) PLAY > >>>> It's a major breakthrough. An authentic gaming > >>>> smartphone on the nation's most reliable network. > >>>> And it wants your games. > >>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-sfdev > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> gumstix-users mailing list > >>>> gum...@li... > >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gumstix-users > >>> > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> Xperia(TM) PLAY > >>> It's a major breakthrough. An authentic gaming > >>> smartphone on the nation's most reliable network. > >>> And it wants your games. > >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-sfdev > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> gumstix-users mailing list > >>> gum...@li... > >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gumstix-users > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> Xperia(TM) PLAY > >> It's a major breakthrough. An authentic gaming > >> smartphone on the nation's most reliable network. > >> And it wants your games. > >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-sfdev > >> _______________________________________________ > >> gumstix-users mailing list > >> gum...@li... > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gumstix-users > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Xperia(TM) PLAY > > It's a major breakthrough. An authentic gaming > > smartphone on the nation's most reliable network. > > And it wants your games. > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-sfdev > > _______________________________________________ > > gumstix-users mailing list > > gum...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gumstix-users > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Xperia(TM) PLAY > It's a major breakthrough. An authentic gaming > smartphone on the nation's most reliable network. > And it wants your games. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-sfdev > _______________________________________________ > gumstix-users mailing list > gum...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gumstix-users |
From: Koen K. <ko...@do...> - 2011-03-27 13:18:09
|
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 25-03-11 23:23, Neil MacMunn wrote: > On 11-03-25 07:35 AM, Koen Kooi wrote: > On 24-03-11 18:23, Neil MacMunn wrote: >>>> Hi Everyone, >>>> >>>> I've been working on a new factory Angstrom image for Overo for the past >>>> couple of weeks. The following changes have been made: >>>> >>>> * Kernel version 2.6.36 >>>> * Added task-native-sdk to omap3-desktop-image >>>> * ipk repositories changed to cumulus.gumstix.org (debug packages now >>>> available) >>>> * bug fixes > > What's the plan for upstreaming those changes to angstrom proper? > >> I don't intend to push them upstream. These images have been customized >> to address the needs of Gumstix users and ensure their stability on >> Overo COMs. So basically a big f*** you to angstrom upstream, good to know. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) iD8DBQFNjzj3MkyGM64RGpERAs4JAJ9l94v4jnyJDVnH0UkhXXEt3OK0zgCfcCAc gZyePdJi3G0HvD+jLLcccKk= =W+pt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
From: Kevyn-Alexandre P. <ka...@ro...> - 2011-04-07 15:39:51
|
Neil, Just to understand the changes / your process of dev You branch from org.openembedded.dev to overo You stabilize the code in overo branch. What kind of test do you have to determine that you determine it stable? Do you have a check list or something? Then what do you push upstream and not, and why not?? I understand Koen frustration and I'm trying to understand why gumstix code is not sync with dev? Best regards, Kevyn-Alexandre Paré On Mon, 2011-03-28 at 09:49 -0700, Neil MacMunn wrote: > Koen, > > Let me clarify: > Recipe changes that I make in the gumstix-oe repository are meant to be > a convenience for gumstix users. This allows them to get a working build > environment set up as fast as possible. I don't think these are suitable > for merging into the upstream. If there is a better way for me to > achieve this, improve Gumstix support, and contribute upstream I'm happy > to comply. > > As for bug fixes, I typically report problems - and any solution I find > - to upstream developers so they can choose the appropriate corrective > action. > > If you have any suggestions to improve this process, please share them > here. Let's keep things civil though :) > > -- > Neil > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Create and publish websites with WebMatrix > Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; > WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish > your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf > _______________________________________________ > gumstix-users mailing list > gum...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gumstix-users |
From: Kevyn-Alexandre P. <ka...@ro...> - 2011-04-08 18:10:39
|
Hi Neil, "We are currently evaluating whether Gumstix support in OE has matured enough to render a separate branch unnecessary." So what could be the possible conclusion of this: 1- Keep the overo branch 2- Work directly in the org.openembedded.dev (Maturity will increase with the number of review) What I understand of the process of open embedded is that they develop in org.openembedded.dev and they have stable branch (stable/2009) where the overo stable branch could go, when stable. So what are the main reason of not following there process? Or improving it? Just to conclude I will add some interesting reason why going upstream will benefit for Gumstix & OE: https://lkml.org/lkml/2011/4/1/50 Here little summary: Ingo Molnar -------------------- If companies do not 'bother to push upstream', then management will eventually notice negative economic consequences: - Higher short-term production costs: upstream feedback/review/testing improves the product, so the lack of upstream feedback/review/testing increases the production costs of the product. - Higher long-term production costs: gradually slower SoC development due to a morass of out-of-tree hacks that weren’t pushed upstream causing gradually higher development costs. This means higher payroll costs and longer time to market - in which time more flexible competitors can beat you. - Brain drain: developers like to show their good work upstream as well, not just in some ship-and-forget out-of-tree kernel. Good developers will gravitate towards SoC companies that encourage them to work upstream. No matter how good of a business idea a company has if there's no good developers. - Less revenue: a product can not possibly be more appealing to SoC customers if the upstream Linux kernel does not support it. As ARM moves up the food chain towards more complex, higher profit margin products longer term thinking gains foothold gradually. - Competitive disadvantages: most SoC competitors push their changes upstream, so they get free development assistance, they get free exposure, they get free PR and they get opportunities. Not pushing upstream is a lost opportunity. All of these effects translate into real $$$$$$$ and affect the bottom line very directly, both short and long term. These costs also increase with time so they are not fixed. -- Kevyn-Alexandre Paré On Thu, 2011-04-07 at 15:41 -0700, Neil MacMunn wrote: > Hi Kevyn, > > The Overo branch is intended to provide a quick path to a working build > enviroment for Gumstix users. We are currently evaluating whether > Gumstix support in OE has matured enough to render a separate branch > unnecessary. Any feedback is welcome - our goal is to support this > community as best we can. Next week I'll be able to offer a better idea > of our OE integration plans. > > Thanks for your continued support. > > -- > Neil > > > On 11-04-07 08:39 AM, Kevyn-Alexandre Paré wrote: > > Neil, > > > > Just to understand the changes / your process of dev > > > > You branch from org.openembedded.dev to overo > > > > You stabilize the code in overo branch. > > What kind of test do you have to determine that you determine it stable? > > Do you have a check list or something? > > > > Then what do you push upstream and not, and why not?? > > > > I understand Koen frustration and I'm trying to understand why gumstix > > code is not sync with dev? > > > > Best regards, > > > > Kevyn-Alexandre Paré > > > > > > On Mon, 2011-03-28 at 09:49 -0700, Neil MacMunn wrote: > >> Koen, > >> > >> Let me clarify: > >> Recipe changes that I make in the gumstix-oe repository are meant to be > >> a convenience for gumstix users. This allows them to get a working build > >> environment set up as fast as possible. I don't think these are suitable > >> for merging into the upstream. If there is a better way for me to > >> achieve this, improve Gumstix support, and contribute upstream I'm happy > >> to comply. > >> > >> As for bug fixes, I typically report problems - and any solution I find > >> - to upstream developers so they can choose the appropriate corrective > >> action. > >> > >> If you have any suggestions to improve this process, please share them > >> here. Let's keep things civil though :) > >> > >> -- > >> Neil > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> Create and publish websites with WebMatrix > >> Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; > >> WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish > >> your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf > >> _______________________________________________ > >> gumstix-users mailing list > >> gum...@li... > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gumstix-users > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Xperia(TM) PLAY > > It's a major breakthrough. An authentic gaming > > smartphone on the nation's most reliable network. > > And it wants your games. > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-sfdev > > _______________________________________________ > > gumstix-users mailing list > > gum...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gumstix-users > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Xperia(TM) PLAY > It's a major breakthrough. An authentic gaming > smartphone on the nation's most reliable network. > And it wants your games. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-sfdev > _______________________________________________ > gumstix-users mailing list > gum...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gumstix-users |