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## Re: [Gramps-users] Re : Geography view - query about Place the selection in a region

 Re: [Gramps-users] Re : Geography view - query about Place the selection in a region From: jerome - 2011-07-30 07:47:46 ```> Purely out of curiosity - why is the long axis of the > ellipse latitude? > I would have imagined it to be longitude, seeing that > longitude meridians crowd closer together towards the poles I guess because latitude is more consistent than longitude. 1° does not vary too much with latitude (~ 111 km). Need to think "around the world", it is more easy to travel around the world just close to poles. On Equator, you need more time/distance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographic_coordinate_system#Shape_of_the_Earth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latitude#Degree_length http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radius_of_curvature_%28applications%29#Radius_of_curvature_on_the_Earth Currently it is consistent whatever map displayed because markers into the area are on the temp place list. We ignore projection : there is no correction. There is some problems if we want to display a perfect circle on every points on the map. And to draw a square will be an estimation due the coordinates projection on the map. It does not work very well at the poles. Fortunately this is where the habitat is very dispersed and geographic subdivisions are greater and less present. Nick has generated this 'ellipse' code, it is our representation on the map of the places list used for guessing region. It ignores old, current, next borders areas. A place on the earth will still be a place on the earth at the same location. So, coordinates and locations fields have relationships. Jérôme --- En date de : Ven 29.7.11, doug a écrit : > De: doug > Objet: Re: [Gramps-users] Re : Geography view - query about Place the selection in a region > À: "Gramps-Users" > Date: Vendredi 29 juillet 2011, 17h33 > On 29/07/11 15:16, jerome wrote: > > Hello, > > > >> Can someone explain what the elliptical/circular > region is > >> supposed to do? > > > > It is just a visual drawed area with the radius set up > by the user. > > Into the area we try to find neighboring places. > > Outside we ignore them. So, if the user want to get > more places, he/she needs to increase the radius value. > > > > > > > No gazetteer, no external place database and do not > need active network : it is a temp list ! Once you have a > place close to an existing one, we can try to guess and to > provide a list of possible values (country, state, county). > Well, we can say that is rather use distance than existing > database... > > > > > Need to also fill values for State, County, Country > fields (first time) and you will see these values the next > time you will try to edit neighboring places! :) > > > > > > > Jérôme > > > > Jerome, > > Thanks again, I think I've finally got it :) > > Purely out of curiosity - why is the long axis of the > ellipse latitude? > I would have imagined it to be longitude, seeing that > longitude meridians crowd closer together towards the poles > > -  in order to keep the radius in km roughly the same > in all > directions. > > Doug > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Got Input?   Slashdot Needs You. > Take our quick survey online.  Come on, we don't ask > for help often. > Plus, you'll get a chance to win \$100 to spend on > ThinkGeek. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/slashdot-survey > _______________________________________________ > Gramps-users mailing list > Gramps-users@... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users > ```

 [Gramps-users] Geography view - query about Place the selection in a region From: doug - 2011-07-29 13:26:13 ```A little while ago there was a short thread about 'Place the selection in a region' dialogue in Geography view. I couldn't follow it up at the time as I was still struggling with installing osmgpsmap in 3.3.0. Geography view in the Wiki is still 3.2. Can someone explain what the elliptical/circular region is supposed to do? Does it indicate a region of uncertainty about the position of a place? Or a region in which to search for a named Place in the selected gazetteer? Or what? Also, can anybody advise how to get 'Place the selection in a region' to work? I see no region markers at any level of zoom, whatever I do with the slider. Thanks, Doug ```
 Re: [Gramps-users] Geography view - query about Place the selection in a region From: doug - 2011-07-29 13:48:36 ```Follow-up: I now have the region marker working, after replacing symbolic links to the osmgpsmap libraries by copies in /usr/lib64/....etc (see thread on 'can't build python-osmgpsmap-0.7.3 into gramps'). But I'd still like to know what it represents. Doug On 29/07/11 14:20, doug wrote: > A little while ago there was a short thread about 'Place the > selection in a region' dialogue in Geography view. I > couldn't follow it up at the time as I was still struggling > with installing osmgpsmap in 3.3.0. Geography view in the > Wiki is still 3.2. > > Can someone explain what the elliptical/circular region is > supposed to do? > Does it indicate a region of uncertainty about the position > of a place? > Or a region in which to search for a named Place in the > selected gazetteer? > Or what? > > Also, can anybody advise how to get 'Place the selection in > a region' to work? > I see no region markers at any level of zoom, whatever I do > with the slider. > > Thanks, > > Doug ```
 Re: [Gramps-users] Geography view - query about Place the selection in a region From: jerome - 2011-07-29 14:22:15 ```oops, I thought you was talking on the user side ... > But I'd still like to know what it represents. Maybe it should be colorized into the area ? So, less issues with the radius size and only displayed with the user dialog. --- En date de : Ven 29.7.11, doug a écrit : > De: doug > Objet: Re: [Gramps-users] Geography view - query about Place the selection in a region > À: "Gramps-Users" > Date: Vendredi 29 juillet 2011, 15h42 > Follow-up: > > I now have the region marker working, after replacing > symbolic links to the osmgpsmap libraries by copies in > /usr/lib64/....etc (see thread on 'can't build > python-osmgpsmap-0.7.3 into gramps'). > But I'd still like to know what it represents. > > Doug > > > On 29/07/11 14:20, doug wrote: > > A little while ago there was a short thread about > 'Place the > > selection in a region' dialogue in Geography view. I > > couldn't follow it up at the time as I was still > struggling > > with installing osmgpsmap in 3.3.0. Geography view in > the > > Wiki is still 3.2. > > > > Can someone explain what the elliptical/circular > region is > > supposed to do? > > Does it indicate a region of uncertainty about the > position > > of a place? > > Or a region in which to search for a named Place in > the > > selected gazetteer? > > Or what? > > > > Also, can anybody advise how to get 'Place the > selection in > > a region' to work? > > I see no region markers at any level of zoom, whatever > I do > > with the slider. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Doug > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Got Input?   Slashdot Needs You. > Take our quick survey online.  Come on, we don't ask > for help often. > Plus, you'll get a chance to win \$100 to spend on > ThinkGeek. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/slashdot-survey > _______________________________________________ > Gramps-users mailing list > Gramps-users@... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users > ```
 [Gramps-users] Re : Geography view - query about Place the selection in a region From: jerome - 2011-07-29 14:16:14 ```Hello, > Can someone explain what the elliptical/circular region is > supposed to do? It is just a visual drawed area with the radius set up by the user. Into the area we try to find neighboring places. Outside we ignore them. So, if the user want to get more places, he/she needs to increase the radius value. > Does it indicate a region of uncertainty about the position > of a place? Position is the only one trusted variable. Note, without coordinates a place is ignored (not displayed and no match). > Or a region in which to search for a named Place in the > selected gazetteer? > Or what? No gazetteer, no external place database and do not need active network : it is a temp list ! Once you have a place close to an existing one, we can try to guess and to provide a list of possible values (country, state, county). Well, we can say that is rather use distance than existing database... > Also, can anybody advise how to get 'Place the selection in > a region' to work? What do you see on the dialog ? Only one row in green or multiple one. Select one for edition (click twice), this will fill the coordinates and the data displayed on the row. > I see no region markers at any level of zoom, whatever I do > with the slider. As this uses existing values (already filled by the user to avoid same boring seizures and this support custom seizure), the only new data is the coordinates and maybe no place on the temp list. Try to use 'link' existing place name on the map, this should autofill coordinates. Need to also fill values for State, County, Country fields (first time) and you will see these values the next time you will try to edit neighboring places! :) Note, 'radius = 1' should be a good value for most european countries (also UK). States on USA/Australia might need more ? Jérôme --- En date de : Ven 29.7.11, doug a écrit : > De: doug > Objet: [Gramps-users] Geography view - query about Place the selection in a region > À: "Gramps-Users" > Date: Vendredi 29 juillet 2011, 15h20 > A little while ago there was a short > thread about 'Place the > selection in a region' dialogue in Geography view. I > couldn't follow it up at the time as I was still struggling > > with installing osmgpsmap in 3.3.0. Geography view in the > Wiki is still 3.2. > > Can someone explain what the elliptical/circular region is > > supposed to do? > Does it indicate a region of uncertainty about the position > > of a place? > Or a region in which to search for a named Place in the > selected gazetteer? > Or what? > > Also, can anybody advise how to get 'Place the selection in > > a region' to work? > I see no region markers at any level of zoom, whatever I do > > with the slider. > > Thanks, > > Doug > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Got Input?   Slashdot Needs You. > Take our quick survey online.  Come on, we don't ask > for help often. > Plus, you'll get a chance to win \$100 to spend on > ThinkGeek. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/slashdot-survey > _______________________________________________ > Gramps-users mailing list > Gramps-users@... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users > ```
 Re: [Gramps-users] Re : Geography view - query about Place the selection in a region From: doug - 2011-07-29 15:38:59 ```On 29/07/11 15:16, jerome wrote: > Hello, > >> Can someone explain what the elliptical/circular region is >> supposed to do? > > It is just a visual drawed area with the radius set up by the user. > Into the area we try to find neighboring places. > Outside we ignore them. So, if the user want to get more places, he/she needs to increase the radius value. > > > No gazetteer, no external place database and do not need active network : it is a temp list ! Once you have a place close to an existing one, we can try to guess and to provide a list of possible values (country, state, county). Well, we can say that is rather use distance than existing database... > > Need to also fill values for State, County, Country fields (first time) and you will see these values the next time you will try to edit neighboring places! :) > > > Jérôme > Jerome, Thanks again, I think I've finally got it :) Purely out of curiosity - why is the long axis of the ellipse latitude? I would have imagined it to be longitude, seeing that longitude meridians crowd closer together towards the poles - in order to keep the radius in km roughly the same in all directions. Doug ```
 Re: [Gramps-users] Re : Geography view - query about Place the selection in a region From: jerome - 2011-07-30 07:47:46 ```> Purely out of curiosity - why is the long axis of the > ellipse latitude? > I would have imagined it to be longitude, seeing that > longitude meridians crowd closer together towards the poles I guess because latitude is more consistent than longitude. 1° does not vary too much with latitude (~ 111 km). Need to think "around the world", it is more easy to travel around the world just close to poles. On Equator, you need more time/distance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographic_coordinate_system#Shape_of_the_Earth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latitude#Degree_length http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radius_of_curvature_%28applications%29#Radius_of_curvature_on_the_Earth Currently it is consistent whatever map displayed because markers into the area are on the temp place list. We ignore projection : there is no correction. There is some problems if we want to display a perfect circle on every points on the map. And to draw a square will be an estimation due the coordinates projection on the map. It does not work very well at the poles. Fortunately this is where the habitat is very dispersed and geographic subdivisions are greater and less present. Nick has generated this 'ellipse' code, it is our representation on the map of the places list used for guessing region. It ignores old, current, next borders areas. A place on the earth will still be a place on the earth at the same location. So, coordinates and locations fields have relationships. Jérôme --- En date de : Ven 29.7.11, doug a écrit : > De: doug > Objet: Re: [Gramps-users] Re : Geography view - query about Place the selection in a region > À: "Gramps-Users" > Date: Vendredi 29 juillet 2011, 17h33 > On 29/07/11 15:16, jerome wrote: > > Hello, > > > >> Can someone explain what the elliptical/circular > region is > >> supposed to do? > > > > It is just a visual drawed area with the radius set up > by the user. > > Into the area we try to find neighboring places. > > Outside we ignore them. So, if the user want to get > more places, he/she needs to increase the radius value. > > > > > > > No gazetteer, no external place database and do not > need active network : it is a temp list ! Once you have a > place close to an existing one, we can try to guess and to > provide a list of possible values (country, state, county). > Well, we can say that is rather use distance than existing > database... > > > > > Need to also fill values for State, County, Country > fields (first time) and you will see these values the next > time you will try to edit neighboring places! :) > > > > > > > Jérôme > > > > Jerome, > > Thanks again, I think I've finally got it :) > > Purely out of curiosity - why is the long axis of the > ellipse latitude? > I would have imagined it to be longitude, seeing that > longitude meridians crowd closer together towards the poles > > -  in order to keep the radius in km roughly the same > in all > directions. > > Doug > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Got Input?   Slashdot Needs You. > Take our quick survey online.  Come on, we don't ask > for help often. > Plus, you'll get a chance to win \$100 to spend on > ThinkGeek. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/slashdot-survey > _______________________________________________ > Gramps-users mailing list > Gramps-users@... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users > ```
 Re: [Gramps-users] Re : Geography view - query about Place the selection in a region From: Nick Hall - 2011-07-30 14:45:42 ```Doug, The maps in the Geography view use variants of the Mercator projection. This projects the surface of a sphere onto a cylinder. A circle on the sphere will be stretched in the North-South direction when projected onto the cylinder when not on the equator. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercator_projection Google for "Mercator projection" and you will get lots of maps. It is easy to see that the lines of longitude are equally spaced, but the lines of latitude are spaced further apart nearer the poles. Nick. On 29/07/11 16:33, doug wrote: > Purely out of curiosity - why is the long axis of the > ellipse latitude? > I would have imagined it to be longitude, seeing that > longitude meridians crowd closer together towards the poles > - in order to keep the radius in km roughly the same in all > directions. > ```
 Re: [Gramps-users] Re : Geography view - query about Place the selection in a region From: doug - 2011-07-30 18:44:06 ```On 30/07/11 15:45, Nick Hall wrote: > Doug, > > The maps in the Geography view use variants of the Mercator projection. It is > easy to see that the lines of longitude are equally spaced, but the > lines of latitude are spaced further apart nearer the poles. > > Nick. > Nick, thanks. Of course! I was thinking in terms of actual distances on the ground. Say, for example, to get a distance at sea on a nautical chart you need to step it off between lines of latitude. You can't use the lines of longitude - because they're shown equally spaced, so the meaning of measurements between them in terms of distance on the ground/sea is totally different for charts near the equator and charts near the pole. Doug ```