Ah, you've got me there Renato. This is a Gramps thread so I have to defer to someone like Enno who knows more about what Gramps can and can't do. In an ideal world, there would be event-types for such a registration, and a workable way of adding custom event-types for the fake birth. This is all something I'm working on but independently of Gramps.
    Tony Proctor
----- Original Message -----
From: Renato Panda
To: Tony Proctor
Cc: gramps-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2014 11:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] How to organize persons with two "birth dates"?

Indeed, seeing it that way, I have 3 distinct events for people after 1911 in my trees.

So, if the better solution is to avoid custom events and use two birth events, what kind of event do you recommend for "registration", Tony?

In practice, for older (pre 1911) persons, I've been adding birth and baptism events (state registration became mandatory only in 1911, before that we only have church records). Between 1911 and 1960 I might end up with 2 birth events, plus one about registration and other about baptism - even thought that for now I only know the real birthday for 3 or 4 living persons which happen to know that, since there are no written reports to support it. I actually know a case of a person which was registered and officially born almost one year later than the real date. He was able to prove that in order to retire earlier / at the correct date :-)


On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 9:03 AM, Tony Proctor <tony@proctor.net> wrote:
In actual fact, there are 3 events Renato:
a) real birth
b) fake birth
c) registration of birth
Even though the (fake-)birth and the registration are close, they're not the same event, and the registration could appear in the next quarter, or even the next year, without being far removed from it. A classic example of a far removed registration is that of a death when there was an inquest. I have an example here where the registration event was near a full year after the actual death occurred.
    Tony Proctor
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 3:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] How to organize persons with two "birth dates"?

Thanks all for the feedback.

I guess I will go with one of the following two options:
a) two birth events with different dates
b) a birth event for the real date and another custom named "registration?" even for the official date.

Are there any pros and cons I should consider? Like GEDCOM export and other issues. I'm tending to the second idea.

Most if not all my written sources in these cases point out the second date, since it is the official. I suppose that, for some cases, the first date might be available in the baptism records, since parents would baptise their child as soon as possible. However I don't possess any of these yet - and it seems they also lived far from the nearest church so they might also have the official date.

For older records there is no such problem, I only have Church records and no living person to confirm that the dates I have are not the real ones anyway :-)


On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 3:12 PM, Tony Proctor <tony@proctor.net> wrote:
The Queen of England has a real birthday and an official one  :-)
I would use a different event type for the fake date-of-birth. Do you have any sources that support the real birth date? If so then you'd have sources that supported each of the two events, and they could be attached as appropriate. After all, that was the real-life situation (i.e. 2 distinct events).
    Tony Proctor
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] How to organize persons with two "birth dates"?

Hi Tony,

Exactly that, and I'm not even talking about really old people here. I have a few cases of this right around 1950 and 1960.

As far as I know, people have a one month period to register the newborn child without paying an additional fee or having some type of prosecution. Some relatives, living in isolated areas, were registered with an "official birthday" that was false, in order to avoid this. Parents would say the child was born in the same day or a week before. That's why there seems to be a lot more births around market days and other events 8-)

So, if I have a relative which, according to his parents, was born at December 20th, but officially only at March 15th, registered a week later, how should I organize it?

I agree that the real date should be the one in use, however I'm currently using his official one since that's is more useful when requestion documents. After all, that's the date present in his ID card/docs.

Any easy way to cope with this, saving both?


On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 2:43 PM, Tony Proctor <tony@proctor.net> wrote:
The date that a birth was registered is largely irrelevant, except insomuch as it comes after the event and can be used to put limits on the birth date if unknown. Ignoring the registration date, though, are you saying, Renato, that the eventual birth registration includes a birth date that was later than his real birth date? Was that to avoid prosecution for not completing it earlier?
    Tony Proctor
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 2:32 PM
Subject: [Gramps-users] How to organize persons with two "birth dates"?

Hi everyone,

I'm using Gramps 3.4.7 under Win7 and so far without problems. Still, I've found one or two awkward situations where some relatives have two distinct dates of birth. Is there a way to save both? What is the common setup in these situations?

A brief example, I've get a living relative who was born in December, but was only registered officially in April of the following year. He celebrates his birthday in the first date but any official documents have the second one - the one i'm using in gramps.

This is not that rare for older people of isolated places and was wondering how other gramps users tackle the situation.



Gramps-users mailing list