Re: [GMOD-devel] Re: Fwd: [Gmod-schema] Apache2 for turnkey/gmod-web release

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Hi,

Here's an explanation for PHP's strongly worded warning against Apache 
2.0:

	http://simon.incutio.com/archive/2004/03/31/phpAndApache2

>>SNIP
I finally found the answer today in this comment buried on Slashdot. 
It seems that one of the key features of Apache 2 is the new threaded 
worker module which uses threads to serve more requests more 
efficiently than 1.3's multi-process based server. While the core 
Zend engine of PHP is thread-safe many of the critical libraries that 
PHP relies on for its advanced functionality (image processing, 
database connectivity and so forth) are not, and are unlikely to 
become so any time in the future. In a threaded environment PHP is 
likely to suffer from all kinds of unpredictable bugs. Apache 2 can 
be run in traditional 1.3-style prefork mode but doing so greatly 
reduces its advantages over 1.3. Combined with the lack of heavy duty 
testing on Apache 2 and the fact that the 1.3 series will continue to 
be supported for a long time to come it's clear why the PHP team are 
unwilling to recommend PHP and Apache 2 in a production environment.
<<SNAP

Of course I would also like for Turnkey to support both Apache 1.3 and 
2.0, but I think it is going a bit far to base our decision entirely 
on incompatibility with a module that we don't even use.

Lincoln

On Tuesday 03 August 2004 10:46 pm, Scott Cain wrote:
> Allen,
>
> On this page:
>
>   http://www.php.net/manual/en/install.apache2.php
>
> it states that is is not recommended that Apache 2 be used with php
> in a production environment.  While I don't know the details, I'm
> guessing there is either a major security or stability issue (or
> both).  Given that, I don't think we should support only Apache2,
> since cutting off users from using php would be a real drag.  So if
> we can't support both, we should stick with apache 1.3.
>
> Scott
>
> On Tue, 2004-08-03 at 18:42, Allen Day wrote:
> > try building apache 2 w/o expat.  for apache 1.3.x you use
> >
> > ./configure --disable-rule=EXPAT
> >
> > -allen
> >
> > On Tue, 3 Aug 2004, Scott Cain wrote:
> > > Because this is an important problem, I spent this afternoon
> > > trying to get apache2/php/mod_perl2 working together.  I got
> > > apache2 and php packages from http://www.serverlogistics.com/ ,
> > > which has precomiled packages.  After installing those, I
> > > compiled mod_perl-1.99_14 from source and installed it.  Apache
> > > started successfully, and php worked (at least, a simple "hello
> > > world" script worked), however, when I installed turnkey and
> > > tried to restart apache, I got this error:
> > >
> > > dyld: /Library/Apache2/bin/httpd version mismatch for library:
> > > /Library/Apache2/lib/libexpat.0.dylib (compatibility version of
> > > user: 6.0.0 greater than library's version: 2.0.0)
> > > bin/apachectl: line 87: 25464 Trace/BPT trap          $HTTPD -k
> > > $ARGV
> > >
> > > I have no idea what that means.
> > >
> > > Tomorrow, I will try compiling apache and php from source to
> > > see if that makes a difference, but I am not optimistic.
> > >
> > > My mac is running OS X 10.3 and perl 5.8.4 compiled from
> > > source.
> > >
> > > Scott
> > >
> > > On Tue, 2004-08-03 at 14:30, Scott Cain wrote:
> > > > Hi Mark,
> > > >
> > > > I did have gmod-web running under apache1, but when we tried
> > > > to move to code that should work under both mod_perl1 and
> > > > mod_perl2, it stopped working.  I was planning on compiling
> > > > and installing apache2/mod_perl on my mac tomorrow for
> > > > testing.  I could see that the absence of php would affect
> > > > other people as well though.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Scott
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, 2004-08-03 at 14:18, Mark Schroeder wrote:
> > > > > Scott,
> > > > >
> > > > > We had problems getting modperl2 working with our own
> > > > > Apache2 on Mac X. In addition, our site (and many others
> > > > > I'm sure) require PHP. This also did not work properly with
> > > > > Apache2 on Mac X. As a result, we downgraded to Apache
> > > > > 1.3.31 and are using modperl1.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you go this route, it's very likely that anyone in our
> > > > > situation will not be able to use gmod on Mac X without
> > > > > considerable work.
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't recall the details. If I get a chance I will try to
> > > > > look at this again and give you more information.
> > > > >
> > > > > Did you manage to get gmod-web running on Mac X? I haven't
> > > > > had a lot of time to delve into it, but we've run into a
> > > > > number of problems.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mark
> > > > >
> > > > >  > Begin forwarded message:
> > > > >  >
> > > > >  > From: Scott Cain <ca...@cs...>
> > > > >  > Date: August 3, 2004 1:10:10 PM EDT
> > > > >  > To: gmod list <gmo...@li...>, gmod
> > > > >  > schema <gmo...@li...>
> > > > >  > Cc: "Brian' 'O'Connor" <boc...@uc...>, Allen Day
> > > > >  > <all...@uc...>, Lincoln Stein <ls...@cs...>
> > > > >  > Subject: [Gmod-schema] Apache2 for turnkey/gmod-web
> > > > >  > release
> > > > >  >
> > > > >  > Hello all,
> > > > >  >
> > > > >  > We are in the process of preparing the first release of
> > > > >  > gmod-web, which
> > > > >  > will be compatible with the next release of gmod/chado
> > > > >  > (which I am also
> > > > >  > working on), and I have an important question for
> > > > >  > potential users:
> > > > >  >
> > > > >  >     We are thinking about requiring Apache2/mod_perl2. 
> > > > >  > Does that pose a problem for anyone?
> > > > >  >
> > > > >  > The reason we want to do this is that it is very
> > > > >  > difficult to produce software that will run reliably
> > > > >  > under both mod_perl1 and mod_perl2, and
> > > > >  > since mod_perl2 is "the future" we would like to go with
> > > > >  > it.
> > > > >  >
> > > > >  > Thanks,
> > > > >  > Scott
> > > > >  >
> > > > >  > --
> > > > >  > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >  >---------------- Scott Cain, Ph. D.
> > > > >  > ca...@cs...
> > > > >  > GMOD Coordinator (http://www.gmod.org/)
> > > > >  > 216-392-3087
> > > > >  > Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory
> > > > >  >
> > > > >  >
> > > > >  >
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-- 
Lincoln D. Stein
Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory
1 Bungtown Road
Cold Spring Harbor, NY 11724