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IDEA:Multiple Libraries/player

Werocia
B0rsuk
2005-06-16
2013-05-29
  • B0rsuk
    B0rsuk
    2005-06-16

    Hey

    There's need to make Werocia unique. Sure, we can make it MTG clone, but why would anyone play it, then ?MTG has more cards, prettier pictures, etc. In such case Werocia won't be popular, unless MTG is banned from gccg for legal reasons.

    Here's an idea I have for Werocia:
    Multiple libraries/player
    ----------------

    The idea is fairly simple, yet, if implemented, it would change gameplay dramatically.

    For example, let's say each player has 3 libraries instead of 1 (piles of cards to draw from).
    Now let's say each player can choose to draw a card from any of his libraries.

    Benefits ?
    - less bad draws/more dynamic game
    - more strategic choices during game (in mtg choices are most important BEFORE game)
    - less/no need for mulligan
    - no land flood !
    - additional layers of strategy: identify your enemy's libraries, and react accordingly. It's all about making decks flexible. In MTG decks are very inflexible, and that, with lots of randomness, reduces amount of strategic choices.

    COmbos may be easier to execute... and easier to stop, too, becasue you may decide to devote one of your decks to disenchants, and "solving problems" in general.

    What do you think about this idea ? I'm eagerly awaiting your input.

    Additional things to consider: it's likely that many players will make one of their libraries contain lands only. While it makes sense, it may become boring quickly. Basically it would reduce Werocia to 2 libraries + free lands. I don't like that. So I suggest that instead of drawing and playing a land
    --
    You can play a land at any time, but to do so you have to skip your draw phase, and tap all your lands.
    (or something similar)
    --

    By the way, if multiple libraries is the way to go, how many should there be ? 3 ? More ?
    --
    Should there be restrictions about which cards can be put in which library ? For example:
    1st only commons/ cost<3
    2nd uncommons/cards with cost<5
    3rd rares/cost 5+

    Yes, it would be a great change from MTG, but we don't want a clone, right ? I'll be lobbying heavily for this idea, but I need your support ! Post your comments.

     
    • Jazz Fusion
      Jazz Fusion
      2005-06-17

      I dont know if I have any say. I didnt design the game. But I definatley think thats the coolest idea I've ever heard. Then again I'm sure it has many problems.

      One thing I remember from playing Star Trek CCG that was similar was I belive there was a feature called Qs Tent. Once you drew it, it allowed you to draw from at any time, a smaller deck filled with any cards you wished (or something like that).

      What if Werocia used something similar. You could have a main deck and a bunch of little sideboards that would activate when you drew a certain card. Once you draw a sideboard card you could then choose which one to draw from. Each sideboard could be designed for different things (For example, an anti combo sideboard, a gain life sideboard, a counter sideboard) so that if you got into a jam you could switch into sideboard mode and hopefully save yourself.

      Just a thought.

      I agree with you 99.9 percent however that the game is too much like magic. I like the whole level idea, and the crystal idea. Not much else though to set it apart. We need more original features.

      Some Ideas:

      Face Down Cards: Magic has morph. Morph is a really poor mechanic that usually isnt implemented well in most cards. What if werocia had face down cards that played in a different way. It could be similar to the game yugio. Yugio is a stupid game, but I've always thought it would be cool to decive your opponent like such with face down cards.

      Multiple fields of play: I had this idea in a dream where an ancient mayan god explained to me how this feature would be really cool. If only I could translate his beautiful abstract language. Im guessing you could have different "Planes" where creatures could be played, and creatures could only block other creatures on the same plane. There could also be cards which target only a certain felid or permanents on a certain field.

      Field Effects: You could have the felids of play fall under feild effects. The default would be called "Normal". All cards would act as normal. There could be cards in the game that may change the effect of a feild to something else. For example, I thought a cool effect could be "Chaos". Under chaos, some cards may act differently, some cards would completley transform, and others would do nothing. This could be a cool way to get around high mana costs for creatures: Play the weak creature cheaply in normal mode. If the creature has text which says "Gets +5+5 when the feild effect is chaos" then you could change the feild and get a hgh creature. Again, just a thought.

      Mabey we should all post some new ideas here and see what we like?

       
    • B0rsuk
      B0rsuk
      2005-06-17

      (apparently only vlcyen has say here)
      About cards unlocking sideboards:
      I don't really like it. It would essentially bring randomness back.

      Multiple fields: this feels just like creatures with shadow  - a bit extended perhaps. But the point is: you just need to play few creatures with shadow, then boost them quickly with Unholy Strenght etc. (yes, I like Unholy Strenght a lot, +2/+1 for B is much more economical than any equipment). Basically, a player could make his creatures unstoppable, and everyone would have to adapt.
      Think about Troll Ascetic. There's very little to stop it - no spells, no effects, and apparently no creatures, except for those with regeneration. If you add Umezawa's Jitte, it can kill regenerating creatures with ease, and obliterate your creatures in general with -1/-1 effect.
      So far the most reliable way of dealing with the Troll is to finish your opponent first. I think this limits gameplay quite a lot. In fact, every other player on gccg seems to use Troll, Jitte, Sakura Tribe-Elder, Birds of Paradise, Tooth&Nail, Plow Under... Perhaps I'm just that lame, but it seems that in current blocks other colors are just meant as additions to green deck (birds, Kodama's Reach, blah blah). Seriously, how many diffrent mtg cards do you see in typical mtg-gccg game ? What's the point of hundreds of cards if only few dozen are used ?
      Ok, enough ranting.
      -----------------------
      With current rules, Werocia would be even less flexible game than MTG. What is leveling up if not variation of Morph ? One of MTG's strenght is that their basic rules are rather simple, and they add a lot in expansions (abilities, Cycling, Splice, Morph...). MTG is easily expandable. Having levelinp up on every single creature... I dunno. So far vlcyen ("the guy in charge") didn't provide one single specific example of creature using it.
      --------------------
      About crystals: The crystals are interesting, but let's make Werocia unique in this aspect, too. At the moment players have 10 crystals each, so 1 crystal is roughly 2 life worth.
      There's a concern that Werocia would promote swarms of little creatures, because any creature can destroy a crystal, while STRONG creatures would still destroy only one if unblocked.
      ---
      We feel that there should be a fix for this. Avery Yen/vlcyen suggested that you'd need, for example, two 1/1 creatures to destroy one crystal, or one 2/2.
      Yes, this would work... but why bother with crystals at all, then ? To gain "protection from lawyers" ?  I have another idea, closely related and dependant on idea of multiple decks.

      Let's say one creature can attack only one crystal, (in declare attackers phase).Then, they should be fairly simple to intercept, becasue even if you have 20 creatures, you can use only 10 to attack crystals. And with requirement to declare crystal attackers it would be a bit easier to protect life than in mtg. On the other hand, in Werocia you can have creatures attack creatures, so it's not like attacking with 20 creatures is useless. You could send 10 at crystals, and remaining 10 to target enemy defenders.
      Big creatures would have better chance of getting past/surviving, so they would still be useful.

      A side effect of this (crystals attackers need to be declared) would be that it gets easier and easier to defend against creatures. With 1 crystal left, you'd need to only sacrifice 1 creature per round and no one could touch you. So I have another idea:
      With 4 or less crystals, you'd have limited access to spell libraries. One of them would be unavailable for that player. I think such tradeoff is needed for balance.
      Another side effect is that Werocia would allow for comebacks.

      Which library should be disabled ? I think....
      a) if there are restrictions on libraries, (by card rarity or mana cost)
      b) if players have total freedom in designing libraries, then opponent of "wounded" player chooses which library is disabled.

      (with 4 crystal rule additional care should be applied to crystal-creating effects.
      My proposal to fix that (if libraries are limited by cost/rarity)
      To gain 1 crystal, a player would have to cast Rare/Tier3 spell. In such case the spell would have no effect, just cost.
      This would only work if player had 1-4 crystals.

       
    • Eric David
      Eric David
      2005-06-20

      I like the idea of multiple decks. Imagine this kind of cards :

      (Legendary permanent)
      When ~this~ comes into play, choose a deck. None of your opponents may draw cards from that deck.

      That way, it would be dangerous to put all lands in one deck.

      (Ritual)
      Look at one of target opponent's deck. Remove three cards of your choice from the deck, shuffle it and put them on top of it.

      As to me, the greatest idea for Werocia is trees of development. I imagine them as attributes of the player, like in the game civilization, or Age of Empires.

      Academy
      Building - WU
      Requires advanced development
      At the beginning of your upkeep, draw a card.

      Tavern
      Building - R
      At the beginning of your upkeep, put a happy counter on each creature in the Tavern.

      We can imagine to create a semi-RPG game, where each creature can upgrade :

      Galin, Wizard Adept
      Legendary Creature - Wizard
      UU
      Requires Advances development
      [Level 2] Tap: Aether fog (target creature is removed from combat)
      [Level 4] Tap: Fireball (1 damage to target creature)
      [Level 5] Tap: Galin's Wrath (destroys two crystals)
      1/2

      Grom, the Unhappy
      Legendary Creature - Orc
      R
      [Tap]: Remove happy counters from any creatures. Play this ability if there is one or more happy counters on Grom, the Unhappy.
      [Level 1] Berserk: +2/+2
      [Level 2] Rage: Pay a crystal : +5/+5 until the end of turn
      1/1

      Regressor
      U
      [Level 1] Tap: remove a level from target permanent
      1/1