Re: [E-devel] E SVN: barbieri IN trunk/THEMES/detourious: bits images

[Gustavo S. B. <bar...@pr...>]

On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 10:14 PM, Carsten Haitzler <ra...@ra...> wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Nov 2011 17:27:54 -0200 Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri
> <bar...@pr...> said:
>
>> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 4:31 AM, Carsten Haitzler <ra...@ra...>
>> wrote:
>> > On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 14:25:51 -0200 Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri
>> > <bar...@pr...> said:
>> >
>> >> On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 1:35 PM, han...@gm...
>> >> <han...@go...> wrote:
>> >> > On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 4:15 PM, Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri
>> >> > <bar...@pr...> wrote:
>> >> >> On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 9:57 AM, han...@gm...
>> >> >> <han...@go...> wrote:
>> >> >>> On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 8:47 AM, Enlightenment SVN
>> >> >>> <no-...@en...> wrote:
>> >> >>>> Log:
>> >> >>>> THEMES/detorious: try a simpler pager.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>  Couple of people reported that they found the pager a bit strange, I
>> >> >>>>  also felt the same, then I'm trying a new one that is more clean in
>> >> >>>>  the design.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>  Pager is usually quite small and holds windows, possibly lots of them
>> >> >>>>  (xterms side by side), in this case all those details were cluttering
>> >> >>>>  the results.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>  Replaced the sunken border with a single line at left and right, the
>> >> >>>>  focused background is a plain rectangle with the focused color. This
>> >> >>>>  should look fine in both inset and plain styles.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>  Windows have no detail. Unfocused are semi-transparent, focused is
>> >> >>>>  opaque. Just focused window have icon, and the icon should be at
>> >> >>>> least 16x16.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>  If you dislike it, feel free to revert.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>> the desk image needs a top and/or bottom separator when having more
>> >> >>> than one row or when used in pager popup, otherwise I'm ok it. In
>> >> >>> pager popup I'm missing the icons for orientation, imo there should
>> >> >>
>> >> >> check r65132. See if it's any better.
>> >> >>
>> >> > yup, looks good now. somewhere the clipping of windows to desk got lost
>> >> > though
>> >>
>> >> fixed in r65133. thanks
>> >
>> > do people like the new pager look?
>>
>> still not 100% satisfied, I'm out of ideas WRT to it, but so far my
>> impression is that it is TOO COMPLEX and needs simplifying. See below.
>
> yeah - the shadow just doesn't work there unless you start making all the
> elements look 3d too.

open to ideas, the shadow thing was more a way to provide contrast.
This one I did not talk to Marina, will ask her input today.

>> > battery is ok i guess, though if u want it like that, maybe battery should
>> > be vertical so it uses less horizontal space? or battery gadget needs to
>> > appropriately rotate battery (use different edje groups maybe) based on
>> > shelf size (if very thin then make it horizontal like now but fill the
>> > shelf height)? the default looks were all fitting into a square, so this is
>> > not coming out too well i think. what do people think?
>>
>> the reasoning behind horizontal battery is that it's on an horizontal
>> shelf, so you have more empty space around it in vertical area, that
>> is more constrained.  I can ask marina to draw new version (actually
>> just the charging icon needs to keep unrotated), but IMO horizontal is
>> visually better as it feels less cluttered.
>
> well it looks like a lot of wasted space above/below if the battery gadget
> became twice as wide instead and had the battery fill the area... it'd match
> better but it'd just be huge then. the battery there would look right on the
> kind of panel that macos has where its much smaller than the shelf AND your
> battery fills the panel height, not half of it. if we had a 16 pixel high shelf
> and it filled.. it'd be good.

space is good, gives eyes a rest. Anyway, if you wish the rotation I
can ask for new images. Just don't think having more dark will help.
See connman's wired, it's in the same lines.



>> > i'm thinking maybe battery should be inset
>> > like the inset look of the pager/ibar etc.
>>
>> I have a strong dislike for inset. It adds too much visual noise to
>> the shelf, that is already usually small. Right now I'm okay with it
>> just for the systray, because we need it for a solid background due
>> xwindow reparenting.
>
> well the pager, ibox, ibar, systray and tasks all are inset by default. as the
> battery is basically a lump of "black" (well dark grey) it simply would match
> the visual style if also inset. just the battery icon - not the whole gadget
> inside an inset frame. just the battery icon. :)

Could we change pager, ibox, ibar to plain? I did not notice they were
like that by default. Also, likely it's better to have the theme to
specify how it likes it? Or at least a default = theme-chooses, with
specific to override it (ie: tasks)

as for the internal slot inside the battery... got it... but would
totally defeat the purpose of the icon :-(

BTW, I'll try to find a way to remove the visual weight of the inset box.


>> if you have a shelf without insets it looks way cleaner, see the
>> attached screenshot. Even if you make all status (battery, connman,
>> bluetooth, mixer) share the same inset box, you can see from ibar it's
>> not as clean.
>
> well as it is there, it stands out as being out of place. it looks "wrong" as
> the look doesn't match the rest of the shelf - pager too. and that is
> distracting.

where/what you mean? could you draw in the screenshot?


>> problem with visual noise is that it becomes tiring more easily.
> right now the shelf as a whole is very noisy due to mis-matched styles.

ok, what I'd like for shelf is to have a low contrast mild elements,
not being distracting. The icons so far follows the clock. I'm
satisfied with all icons, but not with inset style and pager.


>> > anyway - i'm willing work on detorious unless people objects - does anyone
>> > object with me trying to make these look better?
>>
>> not at all, welcome to detorious bandwagon :-)
>>
>> My only remark is "keep things simple" and avoid visual noise. That
>> was what made me run from blingbling and black&white. I always look at
>> everything's visual of detorious to think how simple can be
>> beautiful... OTOH I look at detorious scrollbars and toolbars and hate
>> them.
>
> well everything has lots of beveling and 3d in detorious. text is beveled in.
> windows and settigns lists have beveled etcching between items. there's some
> inconsistencies - like the divider between the top 2 items has no bevel but
> lots of other boundaries do.

wow, now that you say I have to agree. :-)


>> all in all avoid spurious noise and effects, if we want to showcase
>> EFL features it's better to write a demo ;-)
>
> b&w is pretty simple. it doesn't try and demo efl. it barely tries. this really
> has nothing to do with showing off and demos.

come on, the first versions had all the type of "transition: XXX" in
edje :-)  I recall I got crazy with the menu item selecting effect and
reduced it.

but anyway, indeed WRT to consistency B&W is consistent. Unfortunately
consistently annoying :-(


> it has to do with maintaining a
> consistent visual style and look. consistent choice of colors, bevels, shadows
> etc. right now detorious is a mish-mash. detorious clock doesnt use bevelling

Ack, AFAIU detorious was way different before than it is now. See the
widgets and all, it got simpler over the time, but some legacy.

as for clock. It's 1px offset, and I got the color from it to use in
the icons drawn by Marina.


> (well it does, but its so subtle its invisible - it doesn't match other
> elements) but all text in menus, titlebars, widgets etc. do. the battery icon
> does have bevels in it in the full resolution, but when scaled down those
> bevels vanish and it looks out of place. those bevels make the battery icon
> look inset - that was my suggestion, to fix it so it actually looks inset in
> all cases like the rest of detorious. these engraved/inset hilights and shadows
> are part of the look and feel of it so we need to keep it consistent.

Hum, I see. I asked marina to draw the icons at various sizes to avoid
them being rescaled, but there is a huge gap from 64x64 -> 128x128,
and if you get a shelf that triggers resize, it'll be like that.

what I can do is split the icon in 2 png, one dark and one light. Then
light would always be 1px offset from dark. a PITA to declare 2 icons
for each image, but AFAIU it's the only way to avoid this problem.

-- 
Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri
http://profusion.mobi embedded systems
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MSN: bar...@gm...
Skype: gsbarbieri
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